The handgun of SHOT Show 2018 was definitely........ [Archive]

MMyers1970

01-27-2018, 02:21 PM

......the SIG Sauer P365. It does seem, from the coverage I've viewed, that this show wasn't full of revolutionary products----just evolutionary ones.

SIG has managed to put 10+1 rounds into a package which is just about the same overall size as a Kahr PM9----and is 1 inch thick, compared to the .9 inches of the Kahr. What did Kahr offer? Well, under the Kahr brand, they showed the John Tiegen S9, a laser engraved and Cerakoted K9(why Cerakote a K9???), and some new colors. Under the Magnum Research brand, there were new lightweight Desert Eagles, new Cerakote finishes for Deagles, and laser engraving for their DE 1911s. There were new versions of their .22 rifle also. Auto Ordnance had a GI spec 9mm 1911(WHY?) and more laser engraving of pinup girls on a 1911. And then there's the "tactical Tommy Gun", a Thompson with AR furniture.

Instead of throwing R&D money at all this stuff, they should have been A) making the Gen 2 triggers drop safe so they could come to market and B) developing the double stack pistol.

SIG is going to sell every P365 they can possibly make. There's going to be a waiting period for that pistol. Every time I bring up this subject, there's always one person who says "Kahr is doing just fine. There are lots of double stack 9mms. It's a snake pit. Blah blah blah...". But there aren't any high quality ultracompact 9mms---except for the P365. Sure, there's the Kel Tec P11, and the SCCY, but they are both unreliable and made from melted down Matchbox cars and Mountain Dew bottles. I don't understand why a company which was, realistically, first to market with an ultracompact 9mm, and was definitely first with a polymer version,would ignore this market.

SIG is going to own this market segment for a while. Kahr could have owned it 10 years ago.

yqtszhj

01-27-2018, 03:58 PM

Yep. Sig is going to own the market (if they have no quality issues) and Kahr could've done it years ago. I picked up used G26 recently and while I shoot it very well I wish it had a Kahr trigger.

I may get a P365 after someone else test them out for a while. I Put myself on the grabagun email me when in stock list for the P365 and got one email so far but they sold out fast at $499.

Mike_usn_ret

01-27-2018, 04:23 PM

I love my CM9, but let's face it, Kahr has pretty much become a one trick pony of the years. The mag fit has never been addressed, the fit and finish is still leaving a lot to be desired in many finished products, When a new gun can not be hand racked in the LG shop because the break in for many of the 380 models verge on insane by taking 400 or 500 rd, mags are not the best finished product by any means. These reasons make love it or leave it product with little desire to actually improve the manufacturing process by Kahr. I see constant improvement each year by other firearm manufacturers to attract new customers and satisfy existing owners except Kahr. Like I said I love my CM9, but another Kahr firearms is not in my immediate future for my next firearm.

Barth

01-27-2018, 05:35 PM

The new Sig P365 sounds great.
But Sig quality and new offerings have been questionable as of late.
I'm in wait and see mode at this point.
My Ruger LC9s Pro is so sweet; bought a back up and am having ROBAR do the Norton Special on it in Electroless Nickel.

GLOCKROCKER

01-27-2018, 06:49 PM

I've got a serious problem and probably should seek professional help. I preordered a Sig P365 from a LGS that is a Sig Elite dealer just 2 days after Sig announced it. I'm normally not a "beta tester", but just looking at and reading about this gun made me do something I've never done before - purchase before even handling it. I don't have it yet, they got 2 in on Wednesday and I'm number 3 so the next one is mine. Now if this being so out of character for me isn't bad enough, I went to a gun show today and ended up going home with a new Ruger EC9. $225 out the door I couldn't make myself say no. I needed another small 9mm like I need another hole in my a$$. On the upside The little EC9 shoots really nice. Put 50 rounds of FMJ an 2 mags of HST through it when I got home. Perfect so far and the integral sights are spot on which was something I was concerned about.
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Barth

01-27-2018, 07:28 PM

Pre-ordered a Hk SP5K and that worked out for me.
Hope your pre-order works out like mine.

yqtszhj

01-28-2018, 01:07 PM

At just over $200 I may have to get an EC9 also. Just can't have enough pocketable small guns I figure.

JohnR

01-28-2018, 04:23 PM

My Shield is top quality and holds 10 rounds with magguts kit. The Sig isn’t that special.

jeepster09

01-28-2018, 04:32 PM

Same here....I just looked at one of those at my local store. It was EXTREMELY hard to not let it follow me home.

ltxi

01-28-2018, 06:34 PM

Exactomundo. That used to be my standard for any carry gun before it went into rotation. As I've become poorer and cheaper and much more of a who cares attitude I've lowered the standard some but I'm not relying on any factory to tell me their gun is good to go out of the box.
Every gun needs a break in, I don't care what brand. It's bonding between gun and operator. Heck when I put new sights on we start a break in period all over again.

Me, too. It's too hard to get to the range these days, so I just assume anything carry will work okay right out of the box.

SlowBurn

01-28-2018, 08:47 PM

I love my CM9, but let's face it, Kahr has pretty much become a one trick pony of the years. The mag fit has never been addressed, the fit and finish is still leaving a lot to be desired in many finished products, When a new gun can not be hand racked in the LG shop because the break in for many of the 380 models verge on insane by taking 400 or 500 rd, mags are not the best finished product by any means. These reasons make love it or leave it product with little desire to actually improve the manufacturing process by Kahr. ..

According to the American rifleman review, the new Kahr S9 addresses a couple of these issues including elimination of the break-in and fit of the mags.

340pd

01-29-2018, 08:24 AM

Had a Shield. Added Apex sear and Meprolight sights to make it into a much nicer gun. $400 + $100+ $50 invested not counting the usual extra mags and holsters.

Sold it because I felt for it's size it needed more capacity.

The Sig P365 has everything I want in a small carry semi WITHOUT the need for an extended mag and all at a lower cost than I had invested in my Shield.

This time I will make a decision AFTER shooting one as one will come into our range any day now but.....
I do keep six c-notes in my money clip at the ready.

gb6491

01-29-2018, 09:06 AM

At about the size of KelTec's P-11 (which from personal experience is neither "unreliable and made from melted down Matchbox cars and Mountain Dew bottles.") SIG should have a winner on their hands if the P365 lives up to the hype. I'm interested, but will want to compare one against a baby Glock as I have a G27 and associated gear on hand.
Regards,
Greg

Longitude Zero

01-29-2018, 01:50 PM

Agreed. As to others complaints about Kahrs break in period, it is a bit longer but who would trust a gun for self defense at less than 500 rounds? Not me.

Bawanna

01-29-2018, 02:29 PM

mattallamerican

01-29-2018, 05:42 PM

sounds like the 365 is the hit of the show still to big for pocket carry. if I am going iwb I can think of lots of better opitions

GLOCKROCKER

01-31-2018, 06:58 PM

Picked up my Sig P365 today after work. Brought it home, gave it a quick cleaning to get rid of factory grease, light oiling with M-pro 7 and had just enough daylight left to go out back and put 80 rounds through it. So far AWESOME! I am truly impressed with this thing. I've seen several pictures and videos of this gun, but didn't comprehend how small this thing really is until I put my hands on it. 10+1 in a package this small is almost cheating physics. The trigger is sweet, the grip texture is perfect and best of all the accuracy is superb (as long as I hold up my end). First time ever purchasing a gun without having it in my hand first. I took a few pics with my phone to try and show the size. One pic compares it with my Glock 26(for you Greg), and the Glock 43. Another compares with my CM9. One shows CM9 on top of the Sig.
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gb6491

01-31-2018, 09:06 PM

Hey! Thanks for some real world comparisons:)
Regards,
Greg

yqtszhj

01-31-2018, 09:25 PM

Looks like that P365 is about the size of the Kahr. Guess I can add one more to my want list.

Alfonse

01-31-2018, 10:14 PM

I really like it and did get my hands on some at SHOT show. I guess that's why I have one, or maybe 2, on their way. I figure my wife will want one too. It fits in my pocket.

Ikeo74

01-31-2018, 11:23 PM

GLOCKROCKER

02-01-2018, 04:46 AM

Glockrocker, get one of your CM9 holsters and see if the Sig P365 fits into just like the CM9 does or maybe even better. I would like to know if it fits.

I have a Silent Thunder Holster for my MK9 and I think it might fit the Sig. I love the holster and I bet the size is close enough to interchange both pistols into the same holster.
Already tried it in my N82 pro model made for CM9 and yes it actually fits pretty good, also works good in my size 3 Blackhawk pocket holster. I will be getting a N82 Envoy as soon as they are available.

yqtszhj

02-01-2018, 08:21 AM

..... It fits in my pocket.

Well I guess that settles it for me. Its now on the want list.

Just when I thought I was done.......

yqtszhj

02-01-2018, 08:31 AM

Already tried it in my N82 pro model made for CM9 and yes it actually fits pretty good, also works good in my size 3 Blackhawk pocket holster. I will be getting a N82 Envoy as soon as they are available.

You haven't by chance loaded it and put it on a scale yet have you to come up with a loaded weight ?

GLOCKROCKER

02-01-2018, 04:21 PM

You haven't by chance loaded it and put it on a scale yet have you to come up with a loaded weight ?
No I haven't. I do have a set of very accurate refrigerant scales that I can use, however they are at my shop. I'll try to remember to check it tomorrow. Should be a little under 23 oz. with 11 rounds in it.

MMyers1970

02-01-2018, 07:29 PM

Thanks! That makes things very clear. Looks like a P365 is in my future. Cheating physics,indeed. SIG is going to have a huge hit on its hands.

kenemoore

02-02-2018, 05:07 AM

Kentucky Gun Co.
Does a good review/comparison

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m5Mwx8pPf8

steelpastor

02-02-2018, 04:36 PM

.

The P365 weighs in (reportedly) at 17.8 ounces including an empty magazine. Most 9mm rounds weigh in at around 0.5 ounces... so 5.5 ounces plus 17.8 ounces... it should weigh in at around 23.3 ounces with a full 10-round mag plus one in the chamber.

That said... I have been trying out a new defensive ammo from L-Tech. It is called "Full Stop." It is lighter and much stronger because of the Shell Shock Technologies nickel-alloy cases when compared to brass cases. They are reloadable up to 20 times!

An L-Tech 9mm round weighs in at only 0.4 ounces for a 124gr. round and opposed to 0.5 ounces for most other 124gr. rounds (that would put a loaded P365 at around 22.2 ounces... with 10+1). I understand that the difference is minimal... but for eleven rounds? That is over an ounce in weight. Again that may not seem like much... but for me... I c pocket carry 90% of the time (only option) which is why my primary carry guns have been the PM9 and P380.

BTW... the Full Stop ammo from L-Tech have been extremely reliable in both of my PM9's. The solid-copper bullets and their shape feed extremely well in the PM9.

I am VERY interested in trying out the P365... it seems as though it will take everything that I love about the PM9 to the next level. Being in CA (with the idiotic 10-round magazine law), the perfect approach seems to be making the slimmest 10-round magazine possible... and then building a gun around it. Bingo!

It would never completely replace my Kahrs (or Glocks... or), but it seems to move my direction. Dig it!

http://www.guns.com/review/3079509-2/

.

GLOCKROCKER

02-02-2018, 06:08 PM

Put 220 rounds through the p365 so far. Shot a mixture of Blazer Brass 115 gr, Blazer Aluminum 115 gr, PPU 115gr, Federal HST 124 gr. The only issues were 2 failures to lock back after last round. I purposely shot cheap 115 gr ammo, figuring if it's going to fail it would do so with lower grade 115 stuff. I've also run 30 rounds of my carry ammo 124 gr. HST and plan on running at least one more full box of them before I declare it good to go. There are a couple of reports on the interweb of problems with not going completely into battery. I'm sure with a pistol this small there will be some that will have some issues just like any other small handgun. So far I'm REALLY pleased with mine and look forward to giving it lots of carry time. Sorry yqtszhg I didn't get around to weighing it fully loaded but I think steelpastor is pretty close.

Bobshouse

02-02-2018, 09:32 PM

It won't be offered in California. Any new firearm added to the "list" must be capable of microstamping, none are.

CharlieR

02-03-2018, 09:54 AM

Thanks for the pics......Looks like close to PM9 in size. Even as a small guy, I can comfortably pocket carry my PM9, if this can do the same, it'll be a winner with me. I'm on a waiting list. Not that it will replace the PM9.....still shoot that one better than all my pistols.

jeepster09

02-03-2018, 01:14 PM

Any idea size wise how it compares to the Sig 938?

yqtszhj

02-03-2018, 01:29 PM

Any idea size wise how it compares to the Sig 938?

I bet its about the same from what I remember of the 938. Isn't the 938 about an inch wide?

Hey, just think, get you one and OD green the frame and it would be yours. ;)

GLOCKROCKER

02-03-2018, 02:52 PM

Any idea size wise how it compares to the Sig 938?
Jeepster, as a matter of fact I did compare it to my son's 938 yesterday. He came over to "let" Pops install a new set of Trijicons on his new Shield 45 and brought it with him to look at it beside the 365. The 365 is maybe 1/4" taller, and ever so slightly shorter in length. Width looked about the same. I didn't break out the calipers, but they are very comparable in size.
Went out back about an hour ago and put some more HSTs through it. Here's a target shot offhand at 10 yards. Not my best, but acceptable. For some reason I tend to pull it a little low. If I brace up the sights are dead on if you cover where you want to hit with the front sight. I personally prefer a 6 o'clock sight picture.

For some reason pic is rotated 90* counter clockwise and I'm not smart enough to fix it.

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Bawanna

02-03-2018, 03:49 PM

Note to self, when Glockrocker is armed, follow his directions explicitly to be safe at least out to 75 yards, then bob and weave.

getsome

02-06-2018, 06:16 PM

GLOCKROCKER

02-06-2018, 09:13 PM

Well dang...I have had my Shield .45 for about a year now and like it but 10 + 1 is way better than 6 + 1 when the wolf comes knocking......Looks like a trade for a 365 may be in order..........my LGS thanks you Glockrocker!!!!

Tell your LGS I'm glad to be of service! Why "trade"? I'm sure the LGS will order you one without trading your Shield.:) I really like the Shield also. I don't own one but my boy just recently bought one in .45 and that puppy shoots sweet!

gb6491

02-06-2018, 10:10 PM

Note to self, when Glockrocker is armed, follow his directions explicitly to be safe at least out to 75 yards, then bob and weave.
Yep http://www.pic4ever.com/images/bliss.gif...nice shooting there GRhttp://www.pic4ever.com/images/cowboypistol.gif

AJBert

02-08-2018, 12:46 AM

Not trying to knock this new do-all wonder sidearm, but I've never been one to follow the latest and greatest. Never felt the need to be the first the first on my block to own the latest fill in the blank. I like what I have and feel no need to run out and get the newest, bestess gizmo that has come out.

The reason I bought a Kahr in the first place is how it felt in my hands the first time I picked on up. I did my research and found out they were a pretty decent small sized firearm. The same my happen with this Sig. It did happen with a with a Sig 238 that I ended up buying for my wife and she loves it.

Guess I'm pretty old school in that feel is much more important to me than reviews. Again, not knocking this particular sidearm in the least. I just need to handle something before I'll buy it. Remember, if the grip don't fit, no need to commit. Or something along those lines.

lee1000

02-09-2018, 10:04 PM

Can you please take more picks comparing the G26 with the P365 with the +2 magazine?

GLOCKROCKER

02-10-2018, 05:35 PM

Can you please take more picks comparing the G26 with the P365 with the +2 magazine?

Just for your viewing pleasure Lee 1000. Plus 1 on 26. I don't have a+2 for Sig yet, that's just mag with pinky extension. Believe me the Sig is a lot smaller than the 26. It's very comparable to the PM/CM9.
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lee1000

02-10-2018, 08:39 PM

Just for your viewing pleasure Lee 1000. Plus 1 on 26. I don't have a+2 for Sig yet, that's just mag with pinky extension. Believe me the Sig is a lot smaller than the 26. It's very comparable to the PM/CM9.
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Thank you sir

CharlieR

02-10-2018, 10:32 PM

I did get to shoot the P365 at my range. Very impressed. Light, crisp trigger, and the size is almost exactly the same as my PM9. It fit perfectly in my pocket with the Nemesis I use for the PM9. Reliability remains to be seen though. I have one on order, but will be a while, I think.

gb6491

02-15-2018, 12:00 PM

It appears that shipment of the P365 has been temporarily suspended:

http://sigtalk.com/p250-p320-p365-p3...65-design.html (http://sigtalk.com/p250-p320-p365-p320-x-5-pistols/271490-sig-tweaking-p365-design.html)

Regards,
Greg

yqtszhj

02-15-2018, 04:01 PM

I bet they put a heavier recoil spring .

Alfonse

02-17-2018, 10:54 PM

Mine arrived today. I am quite taken with it. My PM9 holsters are a little loose on it. I will get out to the range this week although winter came back with a vengeance today.

Bawanna

02-18-2018, 12:35 AM

Armybrat

02-18-2018, 08:02 PM

We are still in the closing throes of our winter season here:

http://www.kvue.com/img/wx/resize/cdn.tegna-media.com/kvue/weather/7DAY880X495.jpg?,mode=pad&width=750&height=422&scale=both&bgcolor=000000

Alfonse

02-18-2018, 11:13 PM

We got winter back on our side too. Supposed to snow again tonight and tomorrow. Snowing now in town, must be coming from the north.

Kind of like spring for a week or so. Mowed the grass last weekend.

I have a dead lawnmower to fix, so maybe a little more cold will let me get that done.

yqtszhj

02-19-2018, 09:52 AM

We are still in the closing throes of our winter season here:

I can see that here too...

ltxi

02-19-2018, 06:00 PM

I was thinkin' of mowing the lawn this afternoon. But it's 10 degrees out and snowing. Guess I'll just hafta wait until tomorrow.

CCHGN

05-05-2018, 12:07 PM

At about the size of KelTec's P-11 (which from personal experience is neither "unreliable and made from melted down Matchbox cars and Mountain Dew bottles.") ....
Regards,
Greg

LOL I've been carrying a P-11 for about 20 yrs now. Love it. Made in Cocoa Beach Fl I contacted them and complained about all the plastic parts( pins, trigger, take down pin, etc). They sent me all metal parts, for free. It lives in a Don Hume IWB holster, my BUG (I'm an advocate of NYC reloads).

Wlfman13

05-05-2018, 02:28 PM

Exactomundo. That used to be my standard for any carry gun before it went into rotation. As I've become poorer and cheaper and much more of a who cares attitude I've lowered the standard some but I'm not relying on any factory to tell me their gun is good to go out of the box.
Every gun needs a break in, I don't care what brand. It's bonding between gun and operator. Heck when I put new sights on we start a break in period all over again.

I recently “had” to buy a new set of recoil springs for my P380, because I “lost” them. Don’t worry, I’ll explain in another thread. The new springs will require a new break-in period, albeit very abbreviated. Again, I’ll elaborate in the new thread. Need to make it through this thread without highjacking it...