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340pd
02-14-2018, 08:55 AM
"The FBI Was Warned About A School Shooting Threat From A YouTube User Named Nikolas Cruz In September"https://www.buzzfeed.com/briannasacks/the-fbi-was-warned-about-a-school-shooting-threat-from?utm_term=.tcDK91VEey#.vpQbXWnKO2

knkali
02-14-2018, 06:30 PM
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breakingnews/ex-student-kills-17-in-shooting-spree-at-florida-high-school/ar-BBJ8HLr?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout
I didn't bother to read the article b/c it isn't going to tell me anything that will influence this post..
How many more kids are going to be sequestered into a shooting gallery that we call a school without the protection that they deserve?
Its time for people to fully comprehend that the world is changing. Of course no one likes these changes--the changes that drive people to do such heinous things are clearly not for the better.
Its time for teachers to be trained and armed should they choose to be. Its time for schools to have people walk the campus armed and trained to protect the defenseless and to stop or at least lessen the impact the of those that wish to do harm.
Will this completely stop such events from further happening? No, but what we are doing now is only leading children to the slaughter house.
The recent and past school shootings are terrible beyond words, but the time to act has arrived. ENOUGH!
Kids have enough things to worry about in the world today....being locked up together so that they are easy prey to those that are determined to do harm and have no respect for life is not something they should have to endure.
I would love to live in a world where this doesn't happen but the reality is contrary. It does happen. It happens enough that we have to change the educational setting to adjust for it like it or not.

I realize I am preaching to the choir here on this forum but I would like to hear from anyone who has a better idea or approach.

Thanks for listening

Ken L
02-15-2018, 12:24 PM
This is yet another senseless tragedy.

I wonder if a lot of this abhorrent behavior is brought about by the "participation trophy" mentality that is the current norm. In this instance, guy is upset because the girl he was seeing decides she's had enough and moves on to another guy. This guy gets into a fight with the new guy. Gets expelled. It's somehow the school's fault that all this happened. The entitlement/video game/face stuck in their phone generation lives less and less in the real world, and society says that it's OK.

Rant over.

Bawanna
02-15-2018, 01:26 PM
They need to bring back profiling. Seriously. One look at this guy and I can tell he's several degrees out of plumb.

I have no faith in shrinks, about as reliable as lawyers. But profiling. That's the ticket.

Ikeo74
02-15-2018, 02:57 PM
It's time to get serious about crime. 1st) Hold teens accountable for crimes the same as an adult, no free pass until you are 18. You do the crime you do the time. 2nd) Make penalties swift and public. For those caught in the act of a crime where there is no doubt about being the guilty party. Serve the penalty within 30 to 60 days, no longer. Make death penalties public events. It won't take long for crimes to plummet. No 30 years on death row anymore.

berettabone
02-15-2018, 03:30 PM
Look at the eyes, then look at the ears.............................................. ..not on the same planet as the rest of us. They're like the molesters, once it's in them, you can't fix them. People laugh at the word/description zombie. It's exactly what he is.............dead from the inside out, no remorse, no conscience, space cadet. Kills for the "cause" or "self gratification." Only 2 things to do with them. Lock them up forever or...................................

dustnchips
02-15-2018, 03:43 PM
Oh, Oh, I have big ears too.

deadeye
02-15-2018, 04:01 PM
Look at the trash coming out of Hollywood that is supposed to be entertainment. Listen to the violent comments coming from certain politicians and college professors on the daily news. Nothing happens to them. We have made a snowflake generation that can't stand to loose at anything. Buy them coloring books and teddy bears and coddle them. Participation trophies? HUH? Taking guns away is the answer? Knkali is 100% correct.

Bobshouse
02-15-2018, 05:53 PM
There will be a ban placed on AR-15 style rifles. I don't know why, you can currently take your Ruger 10-22 and make it look like the deadliest thing on the planet, but I guess looks are everything in todays world. In actuality, there should be a ban on reporting these incidents. Can't become famous? Become infamous. A school shooting will get your name coast to coast in less than a minute.

ltxi
02-15-2018, 07:00 PM
There will be a ban placed on AR-15 style rifles. I don't know why, you can currently take your Ruger 10-22 and make it look like the deadliest thing on the planet, but I guess looks are everything in todays world. In actuality, there should be a ban on reporting these incidents. Can't become famous? Become infamous. A school shooting will get your name coast to coast in less than a minute.

And therein lies a point. Assault style/looking rifles are higly attractive to the weird, unstable, and antisocial vermin. If they weren't generally available OTB..... And mostly none of these fools, especially the kiddies, would have any idea how to cosmetically convert anything into "Look at me, I'm a MF Bad Ass Killer!" black guns.

This latest shooting has, finally, pushed me over the edge. I will support sales of frames, receivers, and parts to construct. But I'm done defending against OTB "assault weapons" bans. As noted, the world has changed, not for the better. We can't fix that. We have to live with it. And mass school shootings of children, in particular, just needs to be contained/stop.

JohnR
02-15-2018, 07:27 PM
This kid apparently joined a white supremacy cult. Fatherless kids often drift into cults or gangs. We allow so many of these psychopathic cults and gangs to flourish - why??? Who benefits? The only answer gets me branded a conspiracy whacko.

ltxi
02-15-2018, 08:42 PM
This kid apparently joined a white supremacy cult. Fatherless kids often drift into cults or gangs. We allow so many of these psychopathic cults and gangs to flourish - why??? Who benefits? The only answer gets me branded a conspiracy whacko.

But....how do you stop it?

kwh
02-15-2018, 09:10 PM
Can the Left & the Right come together to think outside the box? New times= new ideas needed. I am tired of the same old do nothing arguments over the past 55 years.
If we can leave politics alone and come up with a think tank, that may lead to new ideas.

Planedude
02-15-2018, 09:48 PM
If you don't do anything about the crazy, then the killing will continue. "Taking away the guns" will effect us (pretty much only) and make the crazies use rental trucks, fertilizer bombs or the simple Molotov cocktail to make their mark.

Its the crazy, not the gun that we need to work on...

But, once the liberials figure a way to "ban Americans guns", we will have the blueprint for finally controlling and eliminating the real plague in America today, "social" media.

I think the founding fathers would understand the AR-15. They would probably be very impressed by it. I doubt that they would get how "free speech" has been bacterized by social media's multi faceted outlets and 24 hour a day news cycle. The loudest voices for stripping out the second amendment really cant grasp the huge peril they place their own, precious first amendment in. I hope the muzzle their efforts earn, fits harsh, good and tight...

The answer is in good, affordable Mental health help to prevent the urges from become a murderous act and armed police in the schools to stop the nut jobs in their tracks when that fails. We just have to decide as a nation that we will pay for it.


Peace

JohnR
02-16-2018, 07:18 AM
Mental health is the key. We can't keep throwing drugs at everyone who says they're depressed, that's how we got all these psycho killers. Too many prescription drugs are doing things to our minds that are worse than what they're prescribed for.

Government is never the answer. Look to God.

340pd
02-16-2018, 09:34 AM
This kid apparently joined a white supremacy cult. Fatherless kids often drift into cults or gangs. We allow so many of these psychopathic cults and gangs to flourish - why??? Who benefits? The only answer gets me branded a conspiracy whacko.

I think this story has been debunked.

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2018/02/15/florida-school-shooting-suspect-nikolas-cruz-member-white-nationalist-militia-tallahassee-leader-say/341751002/

dustnchips
02-16-2018, 10:39 AM
I watched a TED talk dealing with school shooters. They are almost all male and have had no father around. I wish I remembered the speaker or title so I could post a link.

dao
02-16-2018, 11:44 AM
....
Its time for teachers to be trained and armed should they choose to be. Its time for schools to have people walk the campus armed and trained to protect the defenseless and to stop or at least lessen the impact the of those that wish to do harm.
.....


Hold teens accountable for crimes the same as an adult, no free pass until you are 18.


Mental health is the key. We can't keep throwing drugs at everyone who says they're depressed, that's how we got all these psycho killers. Too many prescription drugs are doing things to our minds that are worse than what they're prescribed for.

Government is never the answer. Look to God.

How about putting the schools back like they were when a rap on the knuckles with a ruler provided instantaneous feedback to abherrant behavior?
How about getting the federal and local government out of our schools, and replace both with teachers who are allowed to administer discipline and are willing to do so?
How about reviving PTA's that help educators be good and responsible parental surrogates to our children during the school day, instead of allowing them to indoctrinate our kids into becoming dependents of the government, and taught that only ideas left of center are acceptable to "the village"?

Corporal punishment sure kept me and classmates of my generation on the straight and narrow. People need discipline, not only to teach them right from wrong, and cause and affect, but also to keep them mentally balanced. Not all that are coddled and taught they are entitled to whatever they want will go bad but without indoctrination in those areas it is clear to see that there were far less crimes of this nature when teachers had a parent's right to punish their kids. Or for that matter when parents had a parent's right to punish their kids without worrying about the government coming in and taking their kids away.
Make it possible for one parent to stay home with the kids and/or be there when kids return from school. Latchkey kids were the generation when this abherrant behavior began. You cannot expect kids to know right from wrong without being taught, nor can you expect them to discipline themselves when they act out. Nor do they (as a majority), excel when left to their own devices.

We homeschooled our kids all the way through K12. After the age of about 4 we never had to swat their behinds and they have never thrown a fit in public or at home. Today they are college graduates and contributing members of society with no history of anti-social behavior or any kind of trouble in their past. We realize that some of that success is due to God's blessings and also perhaps luck, but our education system has failed to create as many new adults that take responsibility for their actions and are able to make good, rational decisions that are a benefit to society rather than a curse, than all prior generations did. Instead there are too many examples like this that somehow feel the only way to make themselves happy, or to right what they consider to be wrongs against them is to kill others. IMO this all lies at the feet of our education system. If they still considered grades to be a valid means of assessing success or failure they would see an F next to their attempts to bring about their new society.

knkali
02-16-2018, 12:06 PM
They need to bring back profiling. Seriously. One look at this guy and I can tell he's several degrees out of plumb.

I have no faith in shrinks, about as reliable as lawyers. But profiling. That's the ticket.

Profiling is alive and well amigo. Every time I travel in the U.S I get pulled aside and searched as well as scanned. My wife and I have a running joke about it. Once I didn't get "the treatment" as I call it and my wife as like"see, its in your imagination"....guess what? Checked twice on the return flight home. Do I care? not really unless I am pressed for time. Funny, now we have to have special drivers licenses if we want to fly sans a passport soon. Seems unconstitutional doesn't it? Any con law experts out there?

knkali
02-16-2018, 12:07 PM
This is yet another senseless tragedy.

I wonder if a lot of this abhorrent behavior is brought about by the "participation trophy" mentality that is the current norm. In this instance, guy is upset because the girl he was seeing decides she's had enough and moves on to another guy. This guy gets into a fight with the new guy. Gets expelled. It's somehow the school's fault that all this happened. The entitlement/video game/face stuck in their phone generation lives less and less in the real world, and society says that it's OK.

Rant over.

probably contributes

knkali
02-16-2018, 12:12 PM
It's time to get serious about crime. 1st) Hold teens accountable for crimes the same as an adult, no free pass until you are 18. You do the crime you do the time. 2nd) Make penalties swift and public. For those caught in the act of a crime where there is no doubt about being the guilty party. Serve the penalty within 30 to 60 days, no longer. Make death penalties public events. It won't take long for crimes to plummet. No 30 years on death row anymore.

I assume you mean this for capital crimes yes?

knkali
02-16-2018, 12:15 PM
There will be a ban placed on AR-15 style rifles.
Already are here in Kalifornia

knkali
02-16-2018, 12:18 PM
And therein lies a point. Assault style/looking rifles are higly attractive to the weird, unstable, and antisocial vermin. If they weren't generally available OTB..... And mostly none of these fools, especially the kiddies, would have any idea how to cosmetically convert anything into "Look at me, I'm a MF Bad Ass Killer!" black guns.

This latest shooting has, finally, pushed me over the edge. I will support sales of frames, receivers, and parts to construct. But I'm done defending against OTB "assault weapons" bans. As noted, the world has changed, not for the better. We can't fix that. We have to live with it. And mass school shootings of children, in particular, just needs to be contained/stop.

provocative thought....... might be a pawn to sacrifice instead of a frank ban on anything resembling this style of rifle.

Bawanna
02-16-2018, 12:50 PM
Wish I could find it now but Brian Williams the disgraced nightly news anchor now in the back ground for lying interviewed one of the surviving kids hoping to get fuel for the anti gun rhetoric.
He baited the kid and put words in his mouth not unlike the media in general but the kid didn't bite.

He told him it had nothing to do with guns, it's was mental and that's where they need to focus. Kid did good. Course we'll never see that on the evening news, not even sure how it got on the internet.

I think the first step is controlling or eliminating the powers the media wields. I don't know where they find these reporters sometimes. It's like contestants on survivor, they have to dig deep to find pathetic losers like they find.

deadeye
02-16-2018, 04:24 PM
provocative thought....... might be a pawn to sacrifice instead of a frank ban on anything resembling this style of rifle.
You don't "pawn" anything to the lib gun grabbers. Give them an inch and they will go for the mile. That gun didn't kill anyone. A deranged lunatic did. Would another type of weapon have been more acceptable? A rental van seems to work well. Why don't they enforce the gun laws we already have. Is another "feel good" law thrown on the stack going to solve the problem?

ltxi
02-16-2018, 06:31 PM
You don't "pawn" anything to the lib gun grabbers. Give them an inch and they will go for the mile. That gun didn't kill anyone. A deranged lunatic did. Would another type of weapon have been more acceptable? A rental van seems to work well. Why don't they enforce the gun laws we already have. Is another "feel good" law thrown on the stack going to solve the problem?

Enforce what gun law? He bought that AR perfectly legally.

Semi-auto assault rife bans have never affected the ones I own....SKS's and Ruger Mini 30 Ranch. Why?...'cause they don't look like "Assault Rifles". And I dare say, though perfectly capable of it to any gunny or vet who understands them, neither have been involved in nut case mass shootings. "Ordinary looking guns just don't be fittin' my Rambo killer image don't ya know...and besides I don't even know how they work. Are those like a bolt action or something?"

I have no quarrel with AR-15s per se. Although I don't own one or any 5.56 (something to do with early M-16 experiences) I think they're a fine design. But in OTB, black rifle trim they attract the crazies and I think we need to face up to that and proactively deal with it.

dustnchips
02-16-2018, 06:57 PM
This kid beat his mothers dog to death with a ball bat and was arrested by police. Yet he was still able to go out and legally buy a gun. Did the police fail to put him in the system or was that not reason enough to think he was unstable?

deadeye
02-16-2018, 07:02 PM
I understand what you are saying. However, a few questions. Did mass killings come along with AR15's? If a deranged individual can't get one does it stop him? If they were lavender would it help? As far as the law goes, in the last 8 -10 years gun related crime convictions are lower than ever (Chicago? Baltimore, etc.). Why? Is there not a law against murder or do criminals not care about the laws on the books. Why would they care about another one? The gun grabbers aren't just out to get AR15's. They have stated plainly all semi-autos must go. Kahrs are semi-automatics. Wouldn't a single shot Kahr be great? They have also stated plainly the Australia laws are their model. As I said before, give an inch - get ready to lose a mile.
Last question.
"But in OTB, black rifle trim they attract the crazies and I think we need to face up to that and proactively deal with it."
What would you suggest?

Ikeo74
02-16-2018, 07:39 PM
For crimes that would normally get the Death Penalty, give swift justice. For lesser crimes start trial before 90 days. Age does not matter, *** crime in the bud. No free passes for kids under 18.

Ikeo74
02-16-2018, 08:00 PM
This kid beat his mothers dog to death with a ball bat and was arrested by police. Yet he was still able to go out and legally buy a gun. Did the police fail to put him in the system or was that not reason enough to think he was unstable?
Kids under get a free pass on crimes. They don't go into their adult record. Dog kill probably happened when he was under 18 and he got a free pass. Didn't affect his criminal records, clean adult record. We need to change that law.

ltxi
02-16-2018, 08:29 PM
I understand what you are saying. However, a few questions. Did mass killings come along with AR15's? If a deranged individual can't get one does it stop him? If they were lavender would it help? As far as the law goes, in the last 8 -10 years gun related crime convictions are lower than ever (Chicago? Baltimore, etc.). Why? Is there not a law against murder or do criminals not care about the laws on the books. Why would they care about another one? The gun grabbers aren't just out to get AR15's. They have stated plainly all semi-autos must go. Kahrs are semi-automatics. Wouldn't a single shot Kahr be great? They have also stated plainly the Australia laws are their model. As I said before, give an inch - get ready to lose a mile.
Last question.
"But in OTB, black rifle trim they attract the crazies and I think we need to face up to that and proactively deal with it."
What would you suggest?

Answered that in my first post on the subject,

deadeye
02-16-2018, 09:33 PM
I understand your what. Question is the how. What type of law, rule or regulation that we don't already have will put a stop to a lunatic bent on mass carnage?

Barth
02-17-2018, 06:12 AM
We really need metal detectors and trained armed teachers.
Schools, being unenforced Gun Free Zones, are actually soft target shooting galleries :mad:

Mental Illness and our inability as a nation to recognize and deal with it appears to be the underlying issue.

Bawanna
02-17-2018, 10:58 AM
I don't think metal detectors are the answer either. Your just creating a more unarmed environment. Lots of kids pack pocket knives, those would go away.
Sheep dogs like myself who ignore the gun free zone rule and would help defend if necessary would no longer be around.

While there are indeed teachers with right thinking minds and warrior mentality, the percentage is extremely small. While I'm all for arming any teacher that wants to be, I also know there are teachers out there that are borderline candidates for the rubber room themselves. If they aren't when they start they might be after a few years in a classroom. I spent a lot of time in classrooms after I was hurt helping teachers out. It's chaotic at best.

Mental is definitely the issue. Trouble is then we deal with the possibility of folks out of spite saying somebody is a nut case.
Folks like us. You see on the news, the individual has an arsenal of 4 weapons including a black rifle with over 200 rounds of ammunition.
That's the mentality we live with these days. With that thinking all of us on Kahr talk and millions like us could be in trouble.

Even though these incidents are horrible and not acceptable there are few and already they blame it on the FBI's failure to act. Have to blame it on somebody or something.
Even if we empty out the prisons (mostly full of mental cases already) there won't be room for all of us with arsenals and therefor mental cases.

b4uqzme
02-17-2018, 01:32 PM
^^^ yup, that’s me. The guy with a 4 gun arsenal and 4 boxes of ammo... lol.

The only real solution is not to interfere. Let good people do what they think is best to protect their own...or not.

ltxi
02-17-2018, 06:45 PM
I understand your what. Question is the how. What type of law, rule or regulation that we don't already have will put a stop to a lunatic bent on mass carnage?

Now you're just being unnecessarily provocative.

Armybrat
02-17-2018, 06:51 PM
Was assigned to a portable classroom for good part of my career in education. My pickup was parked right outside with a 12 gauge loaded with 00 Buck hidden in a floor rack behind the seat.
At least it was something that was accessible only to me. If an incident occurred in the main building, I could get to it in less than a minute. Better than nothing - or maybe not if a shooter targeted my classroom first.
Would have to whack him across his knuckles with a ruler otherwise.

knkali
02-18-2018, 09:22 AM
We really need metal detectors and trained armed teachers.
Schools, being unenforced Gun Free Zones, are actually soft target shooting galleries :mad:

Mental Illness and our inability as a nation to recognize and deal with it appears to be the underlying issue.

give this man a cigar. Why are there more young crazies is another story though

knkali
02-18-2018, 09:25 AM
I don't think metal detectors are the answer either. Your just creating a more unarmed environment. Lots of kids pack pocket knives, those would go away.
Sheep dogs like myself who ignore the gun free zone rule and would help defend if necessary would no longer be around.

While there are indeed teachers with right thinking minds and warrior mentality, the percentage is extremely small. While I'm all for arming any teacher that wants to be, I also know there are teachers out there that are borderline candidates for the rubber room themselves. If they aren't when they start they might be after a few years in a classroom. I spent a lot of time in classrooms after I was hurt helping teachers out. It's chaotic at best.

Mental is definitely the issue. Trouble is then we deal with the possibility of folks out of spite saying somebody is a nut case.
Folks like us. You see on the news, the individual has an arsenal of 4 weapons including a black rifle with over 200 rounds of ammunition.
That's the mentality we live with these days. With that thinking all of us on Kahr talk and millions like us could be in trouble.

Even though these incidents are horrible and not acceptable there are few and already they blame it on the FBI's failure to act. Have to blame it on somebody or something.
Even if we empty out the prisons (mostly full of mental cases already) there won't be room for all of us with arsenals and therefor mental cases.

dang good points there. I appreciate the position that who do we grant the authority to determine who is mental....the slippery slope indeed. While there are some pretty hard and fast behavior profiles that 99.9% of society would deem mentally imbalanced, there are many people who march to the beat of a different drummer that would never be homicidal.

340pd
02-18-2018, 09:31 AM
Perhaps one way that would help would to have parents and grandparents like this,

"Grandmother Stops Teen Who Was Allegedly Planning a School Shooting"
https://www.thecut.com/2018/02/grandmother-stops-teen-allegedly-planning-a-school-shooting.html

knkali
02-18-2018, 09:37 AM
I am very sorry to say this but many more kids are going to have to die and many more will. As long as we have kids that preach this position (see link) with the support of their tax paying parents, more schools will become slaughterhouses. I would give up my weaponry in a second if I felt that it would make the world safer. However, I do not subscribe to that notion. I am sure this article is clearly in support of an agenda but it is a part of this reality like it or not: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/what-students-said-about-guns-after-14-of-their-classmates-were-killed/ar-BBJgTtF?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout

Where is the news article that interviews a teacher or other responsible adult that said, "if I had my kahr P45 with me, I could have dropped the killer who was 10 feet from me after he got off the first 3 or 4 rounds....."
Aint gonna happen.

I, as most people, do not want to see our educational system resemble a prison yard. However, we can afford these kids more protection than we have now that can be discrete and unobtrusive IMHO. I do not see any other way to protect these kids. After reading the posts in this thread, I have yet to read an alternative.

Bawanna
02-18-2018, 10:56 AM
Let me be the first to say I don't really care what any of these kids say and I cry BS to the whole article.

Product of their upbringing and education. Also encouraged and supported by the one sided media. Probably with a few dozen lawyers thrown in for good measure.

The name of the lead protester is also a clue.

I best quit before I lose my stellar reputation as a PC person.

Ikeo74
02-18-2018, 11:06 AM
We could start to *** this problem in the bud by ending criminal protection for teens under 18 from being prosecuted for any major criminal activity. I have preached this before, kids under 18 years of age are perfecting their ability to break the law during these ("non prosecuting as an adult years"). They are getting the wrong ideas about following the laws. Criminal behavior starts early in life now and needs more severe punishments.

*** above was N-I-P......I didn't know this was a bad word?????

deadeye
02-18-2018, 04:01 PM
Now you're just being unnecessarily provocative.
I did not mean for my post to be provocotive. There are a lot of good posts here with a lot of good ideas. If my asking how some of these might be accomplished in the political climate we are in is provocative, you have my humble apology.

ltxi
02-18-2018, 06:04 PM
Let me be the first to say I don't really care what any of these kids say and I cry BS to the whole article.

Product of their upbringing and education. Also encouraged and supported by the one sided media. Probably with a few dozen lawyers thrown in for good measure.

The name of the lead protester is also a clue.

I best quit before I lose my stellar reputation as a PC person.


Now that there be just seriously funny!

ltxi
02-18-2018, 06:48 PM
I did not mean for my post to be provocotive. There are a lot of good posts here with a lot of good ideas. If my asking how some of these might be accomplished in the political climate we are in is provocative, you have my humble apology.

I don't know how to fix it. Well, I sorta partially do but my my start up solution thoughts come from mid-last century and wouldn't be "acceptable" in current society. To my mind, there are a few fundamental issues. One is a lack of swift and sure, non-coddling retribution/justice. Kill today, executed tomorrow would have at least some effect, especially in preventing repeats. Another....lack of parenting skills/proper child socialization/etc. A third, which has nothing to do with children per se ....I read a book circa 1971 written earlier by, I think, Issac Asimov. A non fiction piece. Working off a premise humans have a limited ability to accept increasingly rapid change, individually so, it accurately predicted our acute and growing social mental health problems. And I'm sure there are more to think about.

While I do have answers for the known, obvious, individual threats that would make the Col look utterly PC, I have none for the greater that could ever see implementation.

knkali
02-18-2018, 08:01 PM
Problem: The dam above the city that generates our power and provides drinking water is cracking and is leaking which is threatening the lives of those that live in the city
Solution: stop or at least slow down the leak first THEN figure out why the dam is cracking to fix it.

Same thing here.
Problem: kids are being slaughtered at school more than ever
Solution: lets try too stop/minimize the slaughtering then figure out what is driving these perpetrators.

Having armed security is not a "fix" just as putting a finger in the proverbial leaking dyke is a fix. Its a start though.

Ken L
02-19-2018, 07:04 AM
Problem: The dam above the city that generates our power and provides drinking water is cracking and is leaking which is threatening the lives of those that live in the city
Solution: stop or at least slow down the leak first THEN figure out why the dam is cracking to fix it.

Same thing here.
Problem: kids are being slaughtered at school more than ever
Solution: lets try too stop/minimize the slaughtering then figure out what is driving these perpetrators.

Having armed security is not a "fix" just as putting a finger in the proverbial leaking dyke is a fix. Its a start though.

Great point, but the issue that I see is that all that is being proposed is to slow down the leak. The left has no plans to figure out what the driving factor is, much less put a plan in place to deal with it.

berettabone
02-19-2018, 09:05 AM
It makes it tough when half the people out there don't know the difference between auto and semi auto.............................................. .................talking out of their arse right away.

knkali
02-19-2018, 10:24 AM
It makes it tough when half the people out there don't know the difference between auto and semi auto.............................................. .................talking out of their arse right away.

This post is not meant to be attacking you Beretta. I am just keeping the flow here. I promise I'll shut up now since I have made my position on this over and over.........ok lets take semi auto, auto, assault, rifle and other words that can be nebulous out of this conversation. Lets use words that everyone can agree with and understand..... here is a song that should be played loud and clear(if possible) at the next parent school board meetings. I think it sums up this situation nicely.....please turn up your speakers because its very soft and you might miss some of the pertinent well crafted lyrics. Please enjoy. After listening....let me know if armed security is not necessary at schools.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HORkT4a2MhQ

Bawanna
02-19-2018, 11:09 AM
It's got a good beat but you can't dance to it.

The problem as I see it is the left tree hugging liberals have one track minds. (I think my PC done left me). They don't care auto, semi, or flintlock, they just think gun. They use these atrocities as fuel to promote their one track effort. Get rid of guns.
I've often wished I could come up with something they love (maybe tree hugging and Subaru's and giving away tax payer money to future school shooters) as much as I love guns and then mount an all out effort to ban it.

Around these parts most all High Schools have a resource officer. Fully armed officer on campus and he deals with all issues in the district.
The downfall of armed security is the likely hood of being in the right place at the right time is pretty slim but still at least he's there and can act quicker as well as help responders with good information.
The other downfall is the uniformed officer will be the first to go if the nut job has an capability to make any kind of sound plan. (not likely).
The plus side of teachers being armed and I mean on their person, not in the drawer of their desk is most probably wouldn't know so they have an advantage.
The downfall is most perhaps I should say many belong to the first group that want to ban full auto flintlocks so might have a hard time getting many teacher to arm themselves. But there are some.
The other downfall to arming teachers is lawyers. If a teacher ever does need to act, we'll have to scrutinize his tactics, his trigger pull weight, weather he was wearing Haines skivvy shorts or Victoria Secret thong, his state of mind, weather he's drank alcohol in the last 7 years and so on.
Probably require monthly training from some over rated and under qualified instructor whose intent is to retire in 3 years by charging by the minute on the Federal Governments dime. I mean it's not like it's real money right, it's the government.

I too don't have a good answer. I know taking my guns or making it hard for me to buy them, especially the old stuff I prefer isn't the answer.
I think draining the swamp and getting some new blood, removing those whose focus is booze and Geritol and that would be a start.
Rein in the media and support the good ideas of the president, unlike his predecessor. I think taking away his tweeter and facebook etc might be good for the same reason I don't have them. The truth is painful to some folks.

Well I'm gonna go out and clean ol Bessie, hopefully not for the last time.

yqtszhj
02-19-2018, 11:58 AM
I don't know how to fix it. Well, I sorta partially do but my my start up solution thoughts come from mid-last century and wouldn't be "acceptable" in current society. To my mind, there are a few fundamental issues. One is a lack of swift and sure, non-coddling retribution/justice. Kill today, executed tomorrow would have at least some effect, especially in preventing repeats. Another....lack of parenting skills/proper child socialization/etc. A third, which has nothing to do with children per se ....I read a book circa 1971 written earlier by, I think, Issac Asimov. A non fiction piece. Working off a premise humans have a limit ability to accept increasingly rapid change, individually so, it accurately predicted our acute and growing social mental health problems.

I like the first and second in particular. Well said.

I really planned to stay out of this one but one big thing is a lack of morality these days (there is no right or wrong) because we have to be concerned about everybody's feelings because it isn't their fault. The very fact that a free satellite channel called "Viceland" peddling filth for ideas can replace a Discovery educational channel shows the depths to which the society has fallen. I don't see us winning the battle but I'll darn sure die trying to make a change. Started with my 3 kids. All adults and they're good so far.

berettabone
02-19-2018, 11:58 AM
This post is not meant to be attacking you Beretta. I am just keeping the flow here. I promise I'll shut up now since I have made my position on this over and over.........ok lets take semi auto, auto, assault, rifle and other words that can be nebulous out of this conversation. Lets use words that everyone can agree with and understand..... here is a song that should be played loud and clear(if possible) at the next parent school board meetings. I think it sums up this situation nicely.....please turn up your speakers because its very soft and you might miss some of the pertinent well crafted lyrics. Please enjoy. After listening....let me know if armed security is not necessary at schools.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HORkT4a2MhQ My comment was not directed at you, and you must have misunderstood my comment. I made the comment directed at liberals who are a large part of the discussion. How can you have a legitimate conversation when you don't even understand the mechanics of the firearm to begin with. It's like talking about race cars, they go too fast and they're very dangerous. Have you ever driven one? No. So how can you even begin to converse about a subject when you have absolutely no experience in the topic. These people that scream the loudest have never had ANY experience with a firearm in any capacity. They want guns gone period. So how can you ever have a legitimate conversation about firearms when most don't even know what they are talking about. It's almost hilarious. Would it have been better if the douche bag would have used a 30-06 deer rifle with a scope? They just can't get past the firearm. Open up your wallet ladies and gentlemen. The schools will need armed guards in their budget. It's the only way to slow this down, and I say slow it down, because it will never stop it completely. Mental illness is a whole nuther issue. I see people out and about every day that just on looks alone, should be locked up immediately. Whatever they come up with is always going to step on some liberties, rights, privacy. Who's going to make the mental health decisions involving someone's ownership of a firearm? Phy's are loonier than their patients. The Gov't? Everything they touch turns to $#!t. I say after the dust settles, once again, nothing happens.

Bawanna
02-19-2018, 12:18 PM
I'm glad my kids are finished with school. No drugs, no issues, no welfare, no hand outs. Plus I won't have to deal with metal detectors and armed guards visiting schools.
Might be an issue with the grand kids if I live long enough but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

I do have some concerns about armed guards in a school situation. I think the big issue for them would be boredom and thus turnover.
Many thrive on doing nothing and work their whole career in boredom. I kind of do, same stuff every day with little variety but I do have expectations to meet and stuff that needs to be done.

One plus to arming those that are already there doing something.

As Beretta mentioned I went to a rodeo Saturday night and they have a little raised area for derelicts in wheelchairs to sit and everybody pretty much walks by at some point or another. Many it seemed walked back and forth all evening, no idea where they were going.

There were at least 4 subjects who if I had the authority I would have pulled for serious checking out. Maybe just anti depressants or something but they were not right.

I was also amazed at how many truly ugly, fat obese individuals are in our area. Now I don't pass judgement on those qualities, I'm sure some are just fine folks but there sure were a lot of them. Plus I'm getting close to being one myself I guess. Course there were half a dozen smoking hotties and a couple of complete stud muffins that I of course pointed out to the missus.

For some reason I was the only derelict in the derelict area. First time ever. Probably room for 15 or 20. It was crowded and it filled up with normal folks including my kids and grand kids but I was the only set of wheels. Weird.

Bobshouse
02-19-2018, 05:06 PM
I wouldn't want any armed guard watching over my kid. There are no qualifications other than getting a guard card here in California. Even with a highly trained police officer it wouldn't be enough, one person cannot cover the acreage of some of these schools.

Make it a little harder to become infamous...

knkali
02-19-2018, 05:40 PM
guys you make some good points. True to course, marches and pundits are rallying their support to ban guns as we type this.... Limbaugh is already being lambasted for saying that conceal carry needs to be allowed in schools. Bawanna made some good points though as did others here on this thread. To circumvent some of these possible shortcomings in patrol training and liabilities etc, the patrol probably will have to be LEOs. Yep a division of local law enforcement created just to keep the kids safe at school. Heck
Retired LEOs looking for a little extra dough is fine with me as school patrol personnel...they probably wouldn't want the job though...too dangerous(joke). Seriously, it will take more than one safety person to do the job per campus no doubt. I have no problem with that. Raise my taxes to pay for it? No problem here for that too.
Where is this gonna end up? Don't really know but I do know this wont be the last school shooting for long time. Unfortunately, I think the frequency will escalate. Don't have facts to back this statement--just a feeling...a very bad feeling.
Love to all. I've said my piece. I'm ranting now. Please forgive me. Just fed up beyond belief.

knkali
02-19-2018, 05:43 PM
BTW Bawanna...love rodeos. Always feel at home at them. Good peeps good times. Have to admit watching them on TV is better though. They aren't quite as fast paced live.

knkali
02-19-2018, 06:09 PM
ok I lied: Great quote in the article about a problem with obesity in America....
https://www.yahoo.com/news/calls-gun-control-grow-louder-035423805.html

If Fl softens their gun policies, that will be the canary in the coal mine for the rest of us(forget Kali)

Bawanna
02-19-2018, 06:22 PM
He agrees to plead guilty if they don't pursue the death penalty???????

Get a rope. Not trial needed. Sorry lawyers, no money to be made on this one.

ltxi
02-19-2018, 06:32 PM
He agrees to plead guilty if they don't pursue the death penalty???????

Get a rope. Not trial needed. Sorry lawyers, no money to be made on this one.

Kinda fits my first first on the list solution thought...posted earlier.

"ban full auto flintlocks" ... thanks, I'm gonna be using that one.

Bawanna
02-19-2018, 06:40 PM
BTW Bawanna...love rodeos. Always feel at home at them. Good peeps good times. Have to admit watching them on TV is better though. They aren't quite as fast paced live.

Most things I prefer to watch on TV but rodeo's can be good in person. We've gone down to Reno for the big rodeo there last 3 years, go 3 nights in a row. It's a good one. Our local one is kind of podunk. Nobody stays on long, but we know a lot of people round the fair grounds so we go.

Little known fact- in my youth one of my career goals, actually top of the list was to be a Rodeo Clown. Honest injun, I also consider long haul trucking but the clown gig was where I wanted to be. Often wished I would have pursued it more diligently. Didn't seem like a real career but some of them do alright.

knkali
02-19-2018, 06:52 PM
Kinda fits my first first on the list solution thought...posted earlier.

"ban full auto flintlocks" ... thanks, I'm gonna be using that one.

full auto flintlock...hilarious

knkali
02-19-2018, 07:03 PM
Most things I prefer to watch on TV but rodeo's can be good in person. We've gone down to Reno for the big rodeo there last 3 years, go 3 nights in a row. It's a good one. Our local one is kind of podunk. Nobody stays on long, but we know a lot of people round the fair grounds so we go.

Little known fact- in my youth one of my career goals, actually top of the list was to be a Rodeo Clown. Honest injun, I also consider long haul trucking but the clown gig was where I wanted to be. Often wished I would have pursued it more diligently. Didn't seem like a real career but some of them do alright.

rodeo clown----jeez can you get more dangerous than that? Those clowns are anything but clowns.... awesome athletes. Watched a show on those guys. I can remember the title but they are amazing...I thought they were before I watched the show...even more afterward. Cant imagine doing it .... love rodeo poker event. Ever seen a rodeo in Mexico? Those are some tough hombres too.

Bawanna
02-19-2018, 07:12 PM
They are incredibly dedicated. They are sheepdogs for cowboys. I know one or two, the guy that does Reno is relatively local to us and does rodeo's up here also.

Guess he's a school teacher when he ain't clowning.

What makes a rodeo is a good entertaining clown. The guys the wrestle the bulls work their back side off and earn every penny. Usually on the good rodeo's there's a third clown that stays at a distance and isn't near as risky but he also gets into it when needed. I've seen this guy I mentioned jump on a bull where the cowboy was hung up, getting him some slack so he could get loose. Both were hauled off on that one.

That's it, if I get legs ever again I'm gonna be a rodeo clown.

Bawanna
02-19-2018, 09:12 PM
Here's a shot of my 1 year old grandson and my daughter at the rodeo the other night. Dude's a real chick magnet just like his grandpa.
https://s26.postimg.org/rnae0c3w9/L4_Cowboy.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/5o3zd4n1x/)

yqtszhj
02-20-2018, 08:33 AM
Thats an awesome picture. Good looking kid and mom. You gotta be proud.

knkali
02-20-2018, 02:24 PM
Thats an awesome picture. Good looking kid and mom. You gotta be proud.

Ditto that!

knkali
02-20-2018, 02:33 PM
just when you thunk this bull will always break right he goes left. Better than Bodacious? Who the rankest of all time?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLRIDYKfmQk

Ikeo74
02-20-2018, 02:53 PM
You would have to be crazy to ride that bull!

Bawanna
02-20-2018, 03:00 PM
Somebody ring?

knkali
02-20-2018, 04:06 PM
You would have to be crazy to ride that bull!

dude, I would be scared just to feed it and water it.

knkali
02-20-2018, 04:09 PM
Somebody ring?

wow....how about skydiving or bungee jumping or??

Bawanna
02-20-2018, 04:22 PM
Not me man, I'm scared of heights and only a fool jumps out of a perfectly good airplane.

I would like to launch off an aircraft carrier, don't really want to land on one though. Maybe launch close to land and land there.

ltxi
02-20-2018, 06:06 PM
Not me man, I'm scared of heights and only a fool jumps out of a perfectly good airplane.

I would like to launch off an aircraft carrier, don't really want to land on one though. Maybe launch close to land and land there.

I'd amend that to "only a fool or a warrior". Other than that, especially as a pilot, I totally agree with you.

knkali
02-20-2018, 06:56 PM
Not me man, I'm scared of heights and only a fool jumps out of a perfectly good airplane.

I would like to launch off an aircraft carrier, don't really want to land on one though. Maybe launch close to land and land there.

Oh OK. getting onto the back of a one ton animal that has horns and hell bent on goring and or trampling you to death isn't as bad as jumping out of a perfectly good airplane....got it. make complete sense. I just had to let that sink in a little:rolleyes:

Bawanna
02-20-2018, 08:12 PM
Not much different than my supervisors. They aren't quite a ton but they act like they got horns and probably about the same IQ.

ltxi
02-20-2018, 08:16 PM
Not much different than my supervisors. They aren't quite a ton but they act like they got horns and probably about the same IQ.

Violets?

Bawanna
02-20-2018, 09:36 PM
Them's the ones. I'd have something to say for sure if I wasn't such a poster child for political correctness.

berettabone
02-21-2018, 10:59 AM
My friend Jerry. 100% Brahma bull. Loves to be scratched under the ears. Comes when called by name. I don't know if I'd try to climb on his back, but it could be interesting.

Bawanna
02-21-2018, 11:21 AM
Now that's a fine looking bull.

Ikeo74
02-21-2018, 11:48 AM
I see you didn't take any chances of being gored and had him de-horned, did you also castrate him?

berettabone
02-21-2018, 12:21 PM
I didn't do anything but scratch him under the ears.:p

berettabone
02-21-2018, 12:26 PM
Another friend.....................I know I wouldn't try to mount this critter..........................................: p

Bawanna
02-21-2018, 01:21 PM
At least that one has handle bars so you got something to hand onto. Let r buck.

knkali
02-21-2018, 01:24 PM
hey for giggles you tube rodeo crashes in slo mo. Change your life just watching it.

yqtszhj
02-21-2018, 01:24 PM
I need a set of those horns on the front of my pickup. That would be great.

knkali
02-21-2018, 01:26 PM
My friend Jerry. 100% Brahma bull. Loves to be scratched under the ears. Comes when called by name. I don't know if I'd try to climb on his back, but it could be interesting.

nice spread too

knkali
02-21-2018, 03:16 PM
well here it goes...
https://www.yahoo.com/news/crisis-actors-lie-spreads-wake-florida-shooting-170138726.html

ltxi
02-21-2018, 06:18 PM
Them's the ones. I'd have something to say for sure if I wasn't such a poster child for political correctness.

Not quite the same thing, but perhaps in the same food for thought league. Had chemo today....every two weeks now and I go from feeling great to totally crappy in a matter of hours. And then that hard lasts for a good 48 or more hours. So was talking to chemo infusion nurse friend, Betsy, about that this morning. "Why do I keep doing this?" ... "Well, I can think of at least three good reasons. Top of my list for you would be machoism."

Ken L
02-21-2018, 06:41 PM
NRA talked about bump stocks back in October, right after Vegas. The bump stock debate should go to ATF, not to congress. http://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2017/10/05/nra-congress-let-atf-re-evaluate-bump-stocks-do-job-pass-national-reciprocity/

Bawanna
02-21-2018, 07:39 PM
We'd be better off if nothing went to congress. Pay them to stay home and not do stupid stuff.

knkali
02-21-2018, 07:42 PM
NRA talked about bump stocks back in October, right after Vegas. The bump stock debate should go to ATF, not to congress. http://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2017/10/05/nra-congress-let-atf-re-evaluate-bump-stocks-do-job-pass-national-reciprocity/

I stopped loving but still support the NRA...I live in Kalifornia and I don't see that they have helped me much. Taken some of my money though and I thank them for that.

knkali
02-21-2018, 07:52 PM
We'd be better off if nothing went to congress. Pay them to stay home and not do stupid stuff.

here here. actually none of this belongs in the hands of the G if you firmly believe in the 2A.....what is the duty of the G? Is it to protect us from violence?

knkali
02-21-2018, 07:55 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/listening-session-school-shootings-trump-urges-giving-teachers-guns-235554901.html possibly....rather have LEOs

knkali
02-21-2018, 07:58 PM
Not quite the same thing, but perhaps in the same food for thought league. Had chemo today....every two weeks now and I go from feeling great to totally crappy in a matter of hours. And then that hard lasts for a good 48 or more hours. So was talking to chemo infusion nurse friend, Betsy, about that this morning. "Why do I keep doing this?" ... "Well, I can think of at least three good reasons. Top of my list for you would be machoism."
I've been away from the board for sometime....how are you doing, last I remember was you had this monster under control. Was I wrong on that? Seems I might be if you are hitting chemo. I thought it was around Christmas time that tumor markers were low...

knkali
02-21-2018, 08:53 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/deadly-parkland-shooting-deputies-now-carry-ar-15-235104539--abc-news-topstories.html hmmmm

JohnR
02-22-2018, 07:01 AM
here here. actually none of this belongs in the hands of the G if you firmly believe in the 2A.....what is the duty of the G? Is it to protect us from violence?
To protect us from ourselves, in their opinion.

And if they have their way, the G will be the only ones who can perpetrate violence against us.

johnh
02-22-2018, 12:17 PM
Man the media stooges of the left are working overtime on this one. My wife, myself, and several friends had posts about various aspects of the shooting deleted by Facebook within 10-20 minutes of posting them. No comments, no message from them, just gone. One friend had several removed. Then they blocked me for gun posts from months back. Then reblocked me for the same posts. They are harassing the heck out of gun owners and conservatives since the shooting. Pair that with CNN's "journalism" that looks like polished, pre-planned anti-gun adds. Almost like a large plan was ready to be implemented at a certain point....

Bawanna
02-22-2018, 12:47 PM
They will label you as a conspiracy advocate for noticing the truth. Keep an eye out for black helicopters and always wear your tin foil hat.

I'm shocked they reopened the school so soon and didn't tear the whole building down and rebuild. Could still be evidence.

johnh
02-22-2018, 01:11 PM
I hear they are tearing it down at some point. Probably too many kids to shuffle around to other locations this far into a school year.

340pd
02-22-2018, 01:13 PM
Man the media stooges of the left are working overtime on this one. My wife, myself, and several friends had posts about various aspects of the shooting deleted by Facebook within 10-20 minutes of posting them. No comments, no message from them, just gone. One friend had several removed. Then they blocked me for gun posts from months back. Then reblocked me for the same posts. They are harassing the heck out of gun owners and conservatives since the shooting. Pair that with CNN's "journalism" that looks like polished, pre-planned anti-gun adds. Almost like a large plan was ready to be implemented at a certain point....

Well said John. Prime example was last nights scripted "Town Hall" put on my CNN. It was a total contrast to the White House meeting with some of the family members where real options were tossed around.


Being retired I have a few spare hours per day that I spend on various political forums and do everything I can to counter the mountain of mis-information that the left is pumping out concerning firearms. Bloomberg is really throwing a lot of money into his project under a lot of different names. Take some time and look at some of the vicious radio hosts that have a public forum such as Thom Hartmann. Countering his BS is easy to do and has become a passion of mine. I am always careful about stepping over the line but sooner or later I will get kicked off. It takes five minutes to change IP address (thanks to proxy servers like PIA) and I am back in business under a different user name.
Their tripe is easy to counter with facts from places like,

http://www.gunfacts.info/

and

https://crimeresearch.org/

BTW John, If you are responsible, thanks for keeping this a loose and fun forum. It is always my first go to gun forum. (after an hour or two spent "correcting" the anti-gunners of course)

johnh
02-22-2018, 01:32 PM
I think the crew here is entirely responsible. We just got lucky and had the right sort of folks jump on board early on. :D

I think I pissed of one of the Facebook reviewers. I did my 24 hours off for posting a gun for sale. Did not post any more for sale. What I did do was get the Arabic words for "dagger for sale" and "rifle for sale". I searched Facebook and can you believe it, I found many such posts in the Middle East that clearly had gone on for years without any action being taken. Well I could not let that stand so I reported a dozen or so. After that someone at Facebook went back through my history and booted me off for 3 days for the same posts I had already been punished for and a few much older ones. I wonder where that person came from--I mean was their name Joe? Bill? Muhammad?

Bawanna
02-22-2018, 02:38 PM
Hey John, hold your head up son. It's good to piss people off once in awhile. We still love you, (not in any mano mano way ya understand) so just keep on carrying on.

One reason all my people say that Facebook and most of the world are not ready for me. I'm ok with that.

I get trashed on the neighborhood forum. Folks upset cause I like the president and hated the last one. I finally got so fed up with it I deactivated my account.
Lot of morons in my neighborhood. Every time there's a pop the forum lit up, did anybody else hear that. Sounded like a gun shot.
Duh, they hunt ducks and pheasants down in the valley below us on a release site. They use Shotguns. Go back to California where you came from ya know.

Bobshouse
02-22-2018, 03:29 PM
They did the same thing to me when I commented on fox news. I logged in and cancelled my account.

yqtszhj
02-22-2018, 03:33 PM
I think the crew here is entirely responsible. We just got lucky and had the right sort of folks jump on board early on. :D

I think I pissed of one of the Facebook reviewers. I did my 24 hours off for posting a gun for sale. Did not post any more for sale. What I did do was get the Arabic words for "dagger for sale" and "rifle for sale". I searched Facebook and can you believe it, I found many such posts in the Middle East that clearly had gone on for years without any action being taken. Well I could not let that stand so I reported a dozen or so. After that someone at Facebook went back through my history and booted me off for 3 days for the same posts I had already been punished for and a few much older ones. I wonder where that person came from--I mean was their name Joe? Bill? Muhammad?

John, you're just a trouble maker. Good for you. I'm proud to be on the same forum as you.

There is a conspiracy against everything that is right, moral, or true by google, facebook, and any social media or other company they own (which is most of them by the way) to tear down the foundations of our country I believe. Just my opinion and anyone is welcome to disagree but I'll never be convinced otherwise. I just hope Amazon doesn't follow suit and stop selling "sporting gear".

There needs to be a search engine to use besides Google called Freedom or something like that.

JohnR
02-22-2018, 03:34 PM
Sounds like Big Media has begun to implement its Final Solution.

I've been thinking about which gun(s) I would buy today if there were to be any kind of ban. You know, to replace the ones that fell in the lake last fall.

deadeye
02-22-2018, 03:43 PM
John, you're just a trouble maker. Good for you. I'm proud to be on the same forum as you.

There is a conspiracy against everything that is right, moral, or true by google, facebook, and any social media or other company they own (which is most of them by the way) to tear down the foundations of our country I believe. Just my opinion and anyone is welcome to disagree but I'll never be convinced otherwise. I just hope Amazon doesn't follow suit and stop selling "sporting gear".

There needs to be a search engine to use besides Google called Freedom or something like that.

Been using IXQUICK for a long time now. Good search engine.

ltxi
02-22-2018, 06:22 PM
I've been away from the board for sometime....how are you doing, last I remember was you had this monster under control. Was I wrong on that? Seems I might be if you are hitting chemo. I thought it was around Christmas time that tumor markers were low...

Hey, knkali....thanks for asking. It is under control. Incredibly so. Tumor markers are solid into normal person range and last CT scan showed liver metastases almost completely cleared up as well as primary, pancreatic, tumor shrunken from "size of a rock to that of a stone". To all outward appearance and for all intent and purpose I'm perfectly normal healthy at this point. Except that I'm not...pancreatic cancer diagnosed at Stage IV is incurable and requires continued chemo suppressive fire, with continued positive response, to keep it beat down/back. Hence, I'm on chemo for life...literally. I can take breaks for vacation purposes and I hope to get routine regular down to every three weeks soon but qutting really ain't an option. No doubt unless something else gets me first this will eventually kill me. But most likely now not until I get old. And I'm not quite yet even 75.

The Col should have such luck with the Violets.

knkali
02-22-2018, 06:33 PM
Hey, knkali....thanks for asking. It is under control. Incredibly so. Tumor markers are solid into normal person range and last CT scan showed liver metastases almost completely cleared up as well as primary, pancreatic, tumor shrunken from "size of a rock to that of a stone". To all outward appearance and for all intent and purpose I'm perfectly normal healthy at this point. Except that I'm not...pancreatic cancer diagnosed at Stage IV is incurable and requires continued chemo suppressive fire, with continued positive response, to keep it beat down/back. Hence, I'm on chemo for life...literally. I can take breaks for vacation purposes and I hope to get routine regular down to every three weeks soon but qutting really ain't an option. No doubt unless something else gets me first this will eventually kill me. But most likely now not until I get old. And I'm not quite yet even 75.

The Col should have such luck with the Violets.
Great to hear! You are fighting and winning! Don't hear that much these days.

knkali
02-22-2018, 06:34 PM
I hear they are tearing it down at some point. Probably too many kids to shuffle around to other locations this far into a school year.
really? tear it down? And the reason is?

ltxi
02-22-2018, 06:41 PM
They will label you as a conspiracy advocate for noticing the truth. Keep an eye out for black helicopters and always wear your tin foil hat.

I'm shocked they reopened the school so soon and didn't tear the whole building down and rebuild. Could still be evidence.

Ya'll needs to get over this "Black Helicopters" myth. As any fool in "the community" knows, they're actually IR suppressive, very dark green.

Bawanna
02-22-2018, 06:44 PM
Evidence disposal.

ltxi
02-22-2018, 06:51 PM
really? tear it down? And the reason is?

Room for a new strip mall.

knkali
02-22-2018, 07:01 PM
incredible.. the insanity never ends
Don't Israelis have armed guards in their schools? never been there so just asking. I thought I read that they do.

ltxi
02-22-2018, 07:01 PM
Sounds like Big Media has begun to implement its Final Solution.

I've been thinking about which gun(s) I would buy today if there were to be any kind of ban. You know, to replace the ones that fell in the lake last fall.

Big bore Ruger Single Actions and assault rifles that, such as Ruger Mini 14/30's, don't look like one.

knkali
02-22-2018, 07:43 PM
who is this kid? Is he from the U.S of A? I cant believe that there are kids that exist like this.... What does his parents think of his attitude?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjxEv64vXg8

ltxi
02-22-2018, 08:46 PM
who is this kid? Is he from the U.S of A? I cant believe that there are kids that exist like this.... What does his parents think of his attitude?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjxEv64vXg8

In this case, it doesn't appear to be a parental issue. Research a bit.

knkali
02-22-2018, 09:30 PM
In this case, it doesn't appear to be a parental issue. Research a bit.

I was being facetious....I think this kid is right....not sure what you mean though.

Bobshouse
02-23-2018, 08:05 AM
Did you read the latest? There was a police officer assigned to the school at the time of the shooting. He refused to enter the building where the shooter was at. He could of made a difference, but he opted for termination/retirement.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/23/police-officers-guard-home-deputy-assigned-to-florida-hs-who-never-went-in-during-shooting-report.html

johnh
02-23-2018, 08:29 AM
This is a great read. Really makes one think....

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/966396341877342208.html

340pd
02-23-2018, 08:40 AM
Big bore Ruger Single Actions and assault rifles that, such as Ruger Mini 14/30's, don't look like one.

I can agree here but the Ruger Mini 14's I have shot have all been accuracy challenged. I will keep my MOA AR and paint it pink and cover the forend with Bernie for Pres. stickers if necessary.

berettabone
02-23-2018, 09:55 AM
Did you read the latest? There was a police officer assigned to the school at the time of the shooting. He refused to enter the building where the shooter was at. He could of made a difference, but he opted for termination/retirement.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/23/police-officers-guard-home-deputy-assigned-to-florida-hs-who-never-went-in-during-shooting-report.html Apparently, Barney only had one bullet, and he was waiting for Howard, Goober, and Otis for backup. They were running late because Goober was airing up the mayor's tires.

knkali
02-23-2018, 10:57 AM
Did you read the latest? There was a police officer assigned to the school at the time of the shooting. He refused to enter the building where the shooter was at. He could of made a difference, but he opted for termination/retirement.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/23/police-officers-guard-home-deputy-assigned-to-florida-hs-who-never-went-in-during-shooting-report.html
Let's give the guy the benefit of the doubt .....lots of fake facts after tragedies. Let's not rush to conclusions....we owe him that.

knkali
02-23-2018, 10:59 AM
This is a great read. Really makes one think....

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/966396341877342208.html
So bottom line is that this article is suggesting this shooting has the same agenda as the one proposed I
at Sandy hook?

berettabone
02-23-2018, 11:46 AM
Let's give the guy the benefit of the doubt .....lots of fake facts after tragedies. Let's not rush to conclusions....we owe him that. They have video of this clown hiding behind a pillar for the first 4 minutes of the shooting. How much more benefit of the doubt would you like to give him. If he didn't do anything wrong, why did he resign? Why was he an ex sheriff?

Bawanna
02-23-2018, 12:05 PM
So bottom line is that this article is suggesting this shooting has the same agenda as the one proposed I
at Sandy hook?

Precisely Weed Hopper!. Now snatch the pebble from my hand and it's time for you to go.

Guess according to the article they are in fact planning to demolish the building. Evidence disposal.

knkali
02-23-2018, 12:09 PM
They have video of this clown hiding behind a pillar for the first 4 minutes of the shooting. How much more benefit of the doubt would you like to give him. If he didn't do anything wrong, why did he resign? Why was he an ex sheriff?

I don't have answers to those questions, that is why I need more time before I make a judgment call. I need to hear his side of the story...somewhere there is the truth. You might be completely right in your position, but I need the smoke to settle and not make a possible knee jerk reaction that so many here claim anti gunners make . Again, I might be right there on your side, but I need to hear more(preferably from the LEO) before I draw any conclusions that big and that important. I hope you see the benefit in my position. As I have said before, armed security/teachers is a like putting your finger in a leaky dam. It isn't a permanent fix but it can stop or at least slow down this apparent problem until we can get a handle on what is/are the root cause(s). Anytime we put people in charge of our security or anything else for that matter, we have the foibles of that human being that come with them. Another reason we need multiple security personnel at each location. So we are learning things here as we go along.

knkali
02-23-2018, 12:10 PM
I asked a question earlier and found my answer. Its a bit dated but still pertinent. http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/12/30/armed-teachers-guards-key-to-school-security-in-israel.html

knkali
02-23-2018, 04:23 PM
fwiw
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/us/school-resource-officer-reviews-invs/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3 A+CNN+-+Top+Stories%29

ltxi
02-23-2018, 06:07 PM
I was being facetious....I think this kid is right....not sure what you mean though.

My bad...I didn't watch the video. I thought you were referring to the school shooter kid. His parents recently died and the folk who just took him in were trying to help.

ltxi
02-23-2018, 06:10 PM
Did you read the latest? There was a police officer assigned to the school at the time of the shooting. He refused to enter the building where the shooter was at. He could of made a difference, but he opted for termination/retirement.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/23/police-officers-guard-home-deputy-assigned-to-florida-hs-who-never-went-in-during-shooting-report.html

More correctly, methinks, he could have made a difference but opted for abandonment of duty and cowardice.

ltxi
02-23-2018, 06:14 PM
Let's give the guy the benefit of the doubt .....lots of fake facts after tragedies. Let's not rush to conclusions....we owe him that.

No fake news/fact here. I suppose you gots that by now.

ltxi
02-23-2018, 06:43 PM
I can agree here but the Ruger Mini 14's I have shot have all been accuracy challenged. I will keep my MOA AR and paint it pink and cover the forend with Bernie for Pres. stickers if necessary.

I have MOA rifles, but none that could pass for "assault". I will confess to not owning anything 5.56 and to never even civilian firing the cartridge. My preferred short/medium range combat weapons are 7.62x39. Mini 30 and SKS's. Sadly amusing....at least to those of us old enough to first hand remember, the SKS is clearly assault rifle label worthy but the anti's seem to keep missing that. It just don't gots the proper aesthetics.

DM123
02-23-2018, 07:11 PM
Let's give the guy the benefit of the doubt .....lots of fake facts after tragedies. Let's not rush to conclusions....we owe him that.

We don't, especially those killed don't owe him any benefits. Though he did retire with full benefits after this incident. Multiple news agencies, even the Sheriff backs up the facts.

ltxi
02-23-2018, 08:33 PM
A good teacher's thoughts....

florida-teacher-on-school-shooting-ill-be-the-one-brave-enough-to-say-it

knkali
02-23-2018, 08:34 PM
I am clearly the minority here asking for a modicum for time to sort things out before stringing up a man. That's OK. I like to see some interaction on this forum, and mostly, I believe in measuring twice and cutting only once. We can all agree that we needed a Rambo for rent, and that didn't occur. Why, could be another matter entirely or maybe not. I did post a link to a report in this thread that he had stellar past performance reviews. However, when lead flies, those reviews could be meaningless.

Respect to all here. Thanks for being involved in this discussion.

Ikeo74
02-23-2018, 08:52 PM
Maybe Peterson was ordered to "stand down" by a higher up official. (unknown)

Bawanna
02-23-2018, 09:20 PM
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/966396341877342208.html

Read this again. I think Ikeo is probably correct. Still too many things that don't add up.

Buzzard45
02-24-2018, 01:00 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI0xv6-Wem4
not verified yet, but if true.....
quite disturbing
(turn down the sound to avoid the robot voice)

JohnR
02-24-2018, 03:18 PM
Yes. Here’s another version of that: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/966854507744374784.html

jeepster09
02-24-2018, 04:56 PM
I am clearly the minority here asking for a modicum for time to sort things out before stringing up a man. That's OK. I like to see some interaction on this forum, and mostly, I believe in measuring twice and cutting only once. We can all agree that we needed a Rambo for rent, and that didn't occur. Why, could be another matter entirely or maybe not. I did post a link to a report in this thread that he had stellar past performance reviews. However, when lead flies, those reviews could be meaningless.

Respect to all here. Thanks for being involved in this discussion.

"Past stellar reviews" in today's world of everyone gets a trophy mean little, especially, considering he worked at a school where trophy's get handed out by the case!

jeepster09
02-24-2018, 04:57 PM
More correctly, methinks, he could have made a difference but opted for abandonment of duty and cowardice.

Agreed.

knkali
02-24-2018, 08:43 PM
"Past stellar reviews" in today's world of everyone gets a trophy mean little, especially, considering he worked at a school where trophy's get handed out by the case!

there is truth to your post...

knkali
02-24-2018, 08:57 PM
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/966396341877342208.html

Read this again. I think Ikeo is probably correct. Still too many things that don't add up.

so Peterson could have been the fall guy? Am I snatching the pebbles from your hand now?

knkali
02-24-2018, 08:58 PM
Yes. Here’s another version of that: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/966854507744374784.html

so you are supporting the assumption from the above post I made?

knkali
02-24-2018, 09:02 PM
If my above posts have a modicum of possibility, wouldn't be wise to hear from Peterson(if that will be possible--ever)? The quicker we lynch him, which is what most want to do, the quicker we are playing into the agenda. Is this a good way to say see" guns in schools don't work nor security with guns doesn't work".......the NRA and the gun loving right wingers are wrong yet again. Hmmmmm.

Bawanna
02-24-2018, 09:11 PM
If my above posts have a modicum of possibility, wouldn't be wise to hear from Peterson(if that will be possible--ever)? The quicker we lynch him, which is what most want to do, the quicker we are playing into the agenda. Is this a good way to say see" guns in schools don't work nor security with guns doesn't work".......the NRA and the gun loving right wingers are wrong yet again. Hmmmmm.

You snatched a fistful of pebbles that time buddy. Agenda, that's the key word. I would not want to be in Petersons shoes. I suspect he's a marked man.

knkali
02-24-2018, 10:14 PM
You snatched a fistful of pebbles that time buddy. Agenda, that's the key word. I would not want to be in Petersons shoes. I suspect he's a marked man.

so master Po, (in my best Kang voice) wouldn't it be better to wait and hear the facts before we condemn him?

wow the rabbit hole is deep

Bawanna
02-24-2018, 10:45 PM
so master Po, (in my best Kang voice) wouldn't it be better to wait and hear the facts before we condemn him?

wow the rabbit hole is deep

If your hypothesis is correct he's neither guilty or innocent but part of the "agenda". Meaning he did what he was told.
I don't condone condemning him and never did. There could be any number of legitimate reasons he did what he did. His chief is throwing him under the bus probably to redirect any interest in his part of this whole deal, including liking Hillary and knowing some of the parties involved.
Everything I think is just conjecture on my part. But there's a fish market aroma around this whole deal.
The media will never let it out, they work for the parties I think thunk all this up.

JohnR
02-25-2018, 06:11 AM
so you are supporting the assumption from the above post I made?
Yes, and y’all keep using my avatar’s character’s words! :D

berettabone
02-25-2018, 09:25 AM
Anyone who would get their picture taken with old horse face should be jailed at the least. As soon as you're seen with horse face, illegalities should pop to the surface of your brain. Connecting yourself with old horse face does nothing for your reputation, or anything else for that manor. Stupid, stupid sheriff. When will they learn. Hang with the snakes, and your head gets cut off.:)

JohnR
02-25-2018, 09:35 AM
It’s like having your picture taken with Don Corleone.

340pd
02-25-2018, 09:36 AM
Nobody here knows the exact timing of what went on at that school. Questions like, number of shooters, where they were located, etc had to go through that deputy's mind.

That said, and speaking as a 72 year old man who is trained and still a very good shot even on the move, and my given duty was to protect that school, I would have been in there the second I got to the sound of the shots. Period, end of story.

As I have told my loved ones, I could have no greater honor that to have been successful in saving the life of a child regardless of my outcome. Grandpa got shot saving someone else? How flippin cool is that?

It's nice being old. Don't f**k with me on an airplane or when I am with my family. I have nothing to lose.

My 2¢

knkali
02-25-2018, 10:48 AM
Where's Ixti? we need his 2 cents on this possibility that Peterson was set up for a fall.

knkali
02-25-2018, 11:04 AM
Well Ben Shapiro says something is up as has been mentioned earlier in this thread....he thinks the Sheriff has something to hide.
Give a listen....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x8hCgRydcs

Armybrat
02-25-2018, 11:53 AM
I weep for those survivors, for I have literally walked in their shoes - directly over and around the pools of blood from my slaughtered classmates (University of Texas - August 1st, 1966). It's unfortunate that most of them are being manipulated to focus on the wrong thing instead of the root causes.

The government "village" - the FBI, the sheriff's office, the police department, the school administration, and the mental health provider - is what failed those poor kids, and not just that one LEO.

Yet the media prefer to run with the EBR & the NRA.

This country is totally screwed.

jeepster09
02-25-2018, 12:28 PM
So true Army...hopefully our country will get focus soon. We are on a down hill slide.

yqtszhj
02-25-2018, 04:15 PM
It's nice being old. Don't f**k with me on an airplane or when I am with my family. I have nothing to lose.



I think I'm going to print the quote above, frame it, and hang it on my wall.

ltxi
02-25-2018, 06:44 PM
Where's Ixti? we need his 2 cents on this possibility that Peterson was set up for a fall.

Would have thought my already done posteds, last #132, wouldn't need further endorsement. Didn't see any need to sprinkle more gasoline. But given you done asked......

Only thing that set Peterson up for a fall was his own choice to go dereliction of duty. Beyond no rebuttal from him, won't answer his phone, put in his retirement papers, whatever... in that situation, namely he was there to protect those kids, Officer on scene gets to make the call. Damn good chance he woulda been killed and I'm sure he knew and considered that as he chose cowardice.

Can't speak to the later deputies arriving on the scene 'cause not enough information on what they knew or had been told. But this Peterson guy is a no brainer at this point. No way t'were I in his position could anyone have kept me, certainly armed, from going into that school. Not a hypothetical supposition, neither....gots enough btdt to know my ownself.

Anything else?


....and to 340PD....x2/Like

knkali
02-25-2018, 11:12 PM
Would have thought my already done posteds, last #132, wouldn't need further endorsement. Didn't see any need to sprinkle more gasoline. But given you done asked......

Only thing that set Peterson up for a fall was his own choice to go dereliction of duty. Beyond no rebuttal from him, won't answer his phone, put in his retirement papers, whatever... in that situation, namely he was there to protect those kids, Officer on scene gets to make the call. Damn good chance he woulda been killed and I'm sure he knew and considered that as he chose cowardice.

Can't speak to the later deputies arriving on the scene 'cause not enough information on what they knew or had been told. But this Peterson guy is a no brainer at this point. No way t'were I in his position could anyone have kept me, certainly armed, from going into that school. Not a hypothetical supposition, neither....gots enough btdt to know my ownself.

Anything else?


....and to 340PD....x2/Like

Yeah, why give the other two deputies pause but not Peterson. He could have been told to stand down or ??? Your thoughts?

JohnR
02-26-2018, 07:43 AM
A little more on Sheriff Israel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=34&v=zTfX8vJLNjA

johnh
02-26-2018, 08:41 AM
It is simple. Now we hear there were maybe four deputies on site and none went in. I was a reserve office in my youth, and I have had a lot of police friends. I could probably fill a room with 30 or so of them currently. Put all of them outside a school and start the shooting inside. In my circle I think all 30 would enter, but lets say we randomly pick 30 LEOs I don't know. I bet 25 enter. Lets say I am biased and in reality only half enter. So of the four in Florida, two should have. But they had 100% failure. I wonder what would make that happen?

I am a school administrator. We had a lock down a couple years back and thought there might actually be a shooter outside. I am unarmed at work. I locked my team in my office and went to stop the shooter. Not bragging, just how it has to be. Fortunately it was a false alarm. But I call cowardice where I see it--or cops ordered to stay put and wiling to follow those orders for whatever reason.

knkali
02-26-2018, 10:10 AM
It is simple. Now we hear there were maybe four deputies on site and none went in. I was a reserve office in my youth, and I have had a lot of police friends. I could probably fill a room with 30 or so of them currently. Put all of them outside a school and start the shooting inside. In my circle I think all 30 would enter, but lets say we randomly pick 30 LEOs I don't know. I bet 25 enter. Lets say I am biased and in reality only half enter. So of the four in Florida, two should have. But they had 100% failure. I wonder what would make that happen?

I am a school administrator. We had a lock down a couple years back and thought there might actually be a shooter outside. I am unarmed at work. I locked my team in my office and went to stop the shooter. Not bragging, just how it has to be. Fortunately it was a false alarm. But I call cowardice where I see it--or cops ordered to stay put and wiling to follow those orders for whatever reason.

John's reasoning that the probability of more cops arriving and not entering leads one to believe that they were ordered to stay put makes sense. Peterson could be the fall guy for the Sheriff's dirty little secret............... why haven't we heard for the other LEO's that arrived at the scene but didn't enter?

Bawanna
02-26-2018, 10:57 AM
Because the media is on their side.

berettabone
02-26-2018, 11:39 AM
Maybe we also need to do more stringent back round checks and training of our sheriff's. When they are employed to protect life and limb, and they stand outside waiting for the Calvary to show up, what message does this send? Just had a situation in a county by me, where 2 sheriff's apprehended a clown for doing something illegal, and while they're out there jack jawing, he slips his cuffs and drives their SUV away. Ends up in a chase, with a smashed up squad and more wasted tax dollars. How does this happen with supposed trained professionals? Your average citizen seems to have more protective bravado than half the cops out there. I have much respect for law enforcement, but when situations arise like that in Florida, it makes you think.

knkali
02-26-2018, 11:52 AM
here is a little more on the "leader" of the sheriff dept....a guy of real character. They all belong together over there. A bunch of misfits and cretins at that department.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-school-shooting-sheriff-says-125311375.html

Bawanna
02-26-2018, 01:31 PM
All departments and cities are different I suppose but I don't think more back ground checks would help much.

Although it certainly seems like whoever picked the members of that dept in Florida didn't do a good job.

There's nothing in a back ground check that will indicate what an officer will do in a dangerous situation. In fact they most likely don't know themselves until they actually look the elephant in the eye. There's a survival instinct in all of us. Some just push it further back than others.
Some are completely foolish risk takers, I'm probably in that category according to my coworkers who are actually cops unlike myself a mere office puke with an attitude. They all agree though that if they are in a bad spot, tell me where they are, they know I'm coming. No rules of engagement for office pukes.

knkali
02-26-2018, 01:34 PM
here is a nice comment on the sheriff " the leader" of the dept.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnjKhHDaYOM

johnh
02-26-2018, 01:34 PM
I think some of us just don't give a **** Bawanna. You and I probably fit into that category. If its my time to go I might as well make it worth something. ;)

JohnR
02-26-2018, 01:39 PM
So one of the teachers was on Good Morning America, describing the shooter as wearing "full metal garb," a face mask and helmet. Hmm.....

Bawanna
02-26-2018, 02:15 PM
I think some of us just don't give a **** Bawanna. You and I probably fit into that category. If its my time to go I might as well make it worth something. ;)

You could be onto something there. Think you might have nailed it.

Full metal garb???? Maybe they thought it was Halloween in Florida?

berettabone
02-26-2018, 02:27 PM
All departments and cities are different I suppose but I don't think more back ground checks would help much.

Although it certainly seems like whoever picked the members of that dept in Florida didn't do a good job.

There's nothing in a back ground check that will indicate what an officer will do in a dangerous situation. In fact they most likely don't know themselves until they actually look the elephant in the eye. There's a survival instinct in all of us. Some just push it further back than others.
Some are completely foolish risk takers, I'm probably in that category according to my coworkers who are actually cops unlike myself a mere office puke with an attitude. They all agree though that if they are in a bad spot, tell me where they are, they know I'm coming. No rules of engagement for office pukes. And how do you frequently describe your coworkers? Violets I believe????

JohnR
02-26-2018, 02:27 PM
I don't know if the teacher was hallucinating, or there was something going on we'll never be told about. Where'd the "garb" go when the shooting was over? Is it in the police evidence vault? Alongside JFK's second gunman's shooting gloves?

berettabone
02-26-2018, 02:34 PM
It's already a given that 5 people will see the same scenario and see 5 different things. It's hard to remember when your crapping your pants............................................. .....

JohnR
02-26-2018, 03:09 PM
It's already a given that 5 people will see the same scenario and see 5 different things. It's hard to remember when your crapping your pants............................................. .....
That is indeed a proven fact. Our daughter even did a science project that supports that theory.

yqtszhj
02-26-2018, 03:39 PM
There's nothing in a back ground check that will indicate what an officer will do in a dangerous situation. In fact they most likely don't know themselves until they actually look the elephant in the eye. There's a survival instinct in all of us. Some just push it further back than others.
Some are completely foolish risk takers, I'm probably in that category according to my coworkers who are actually cops unlike myself a mere office puke with an attitude. They all agree though that if they are in a bad spot, tell me where they are, they know I'm coming. No rules of engagement for office pukes.

I had to sit through some active shooter training led by a career officer that had done SWAT and executive security detail and he said the same thing. In an event some will act, some will freeze, some will cr@p their pants, literally. You just never know till it happens and sometimes its too late. Maybe that makes a good reason for former active duty military being good candidates for officers.

Bawanna
02-26-2018, 04:07 PM
Berettabone, the violets take up much space, food and water, with a couple exceptions I don't consider them co workers. Some I would die trying to save , most I'd have to contemplate a bit. As JohnH so eloquently stated I don't give a *** really but I guess I do have standards.
I'm talking about the folks in blue, wearing gun belts and walking with a swagger. I once taped a block on one of my wheels to create a swagger, didn't work to good.
And yqtszhj, even warriors will crap their pants literally even going in to do what warriors do. This is also a proven fact. In many briefings this has come out.
In one a recall one fella couldn't figure why everyone else crapped their pant and he didn't. He then recalled that he had visited the latrine just prior to the call.
After that he called it a tactical dump. This is not to say that it occurs every time or even more often than not, but it does happen.

I know I probably would for sure everytime. Just have to remember stuff happens, it's just stuff, ya know.

JohnR
02-26-2018, 04:17 PM
"Tactical dump" - that's what I do before a long road trip.

Bawanna
02-26-2018, 04:39 PM
Me too, usually part way through the trip 75 miles from the next rest stop.

I think I need an intestinal transplant.

knkali
02-26-2018, 05:02 PM
Tactical dump....man I got a bad case of diarrhea right now. Left over pizza I think did it...OK back to the thread.

ltxi
02-26-2018, 06:09 PM
Yeah, why give the other two deputies pause but not Peterson. He could have been told to stand down or ??? Your thoughts?

Perhaps should reread what I wrote??

ltxi
02-26-2018, 06:18 PM
Me too, usually part way through the trip 75 miles from the next rest stop.

I think I need an intestinal transplant.

Just don't take your Miralax in the morning when road tripping. That be what I don't do.

knkali
02-26-2018, 07:03 PM
ya know its bad when you are afraid to fart

ltxi
02-26-2018, 07:31 PM
ya know its bad when you are afraid to fart

yeppers

johnh
02-27-2018, 08:04 AM
A first responder now saying he was ordered not to go in. The plot sickens....

https://www.infowars.com/parkland-first-responder-i-was-told-to-stand-down-i-could-have-saved-lives/

Also here:

http://dailycaller.com/2018/02/26/breaking-deputies-told-not-to-go-in/

340pd
02-27-2018, 08:46 AM
John,
Just lawyers doing their thing.
Sheriff Israel needs to go NOW!

WMac19
02-27-2018, 11:12 AM
Sure wouldn't be surprised if that's the case, and it's along the lines of what I have (with many others) been saying since we learned that Peterson wasn't the only one.

I've worked with less than brave officers, extremely brave and the middle of the road representation of that particular trait. I've seen cowardice, an officer here, an officer there retreat or not physically engage when the situation demands the exact opposite.

But I've never seen nor will I accept some assumed collective cowardice among four officers all at once. I just cannot imagine that happening except under the burden or pressure of previous policy or current order.

Sure we can all say that they should have gone in anyway and in the case of premeditated policy, I'd be certain to have fractured that one and entered.

But playing devil's advocate here, if I received the surprising order to maintain position absent of some nonsensical former policy, this unorthodox command may lead me to believe that there was a damned good reason for it. Sniper(s), explosives or any other unforseen danger/threat toward students (ie: hostages/barricaded perp stating all will die if they see one uniform, etc).

With shots ringing out and the threat perceived to be immediate and ongoing, all that may be cast aside as we instead choose to enter and engage but if I'm being honest, absent some idiotic previous policy, such an order may have caused myself some tragic hesitation.

The timing of the event as we know it would dictate that my listed scenario couldn't have happened, I only mean to highlight that in a SHTF situation, anything that may create pause is obviously deadly.

Bawanna
02-27-2018, 11:56 AM
It's important to remember that Law Enforcement is one of the few trades where you can do everything right and by the book and still be fired.

You can be fired for doing, you can be fired for not doing.

Like living in a glass house and the whole world (now days especially the lawyers and leftist media) is watching your every move.

But it's still a job and many love to do it. Many would follow orders if for no other reason than to keep the job regardless if their chief or supervisor is a complete illiterate moron that don't know squat about Law Enforcement.

Then there's me and JohnH that just don't give a ****.

knkali
02-27-2018, 02:09 PM
Sure wouldn't be surprised if that's the case, and it's along the lines of what I have (with many others) been saying since we learned that Peterson wasn't the only one.

I've worked with less than brave officers, extremely brave and the middle of the road representation of that particular trait. I've seen cowardice, an officer here, an officer there retreat or not physically engage when the situation demands the exact opposite.

But I've never seen nor will I accept some assumed collective cowardice among four officers all at once. I just cannot imagine that happening except under the burden or pressure of previous policy or current order.

Sure we can all say that they should have gone in anyway and in the case of premeditated policy, I'd be certain to have fractured that one and entered.

But playing devil's advocate here, if I received the surprising order to maintain position absent of some nonsensical former policy, this unorthodox command may lead me to believe that there was a damned good reason for it. Sniper(s), explosives or any other unforseen danger/threat toward students (ie: hostages/barricaded perp stating all will die if they see one uniform, etc).

With shots ringing out and the threat perceived to be immediate and ongoing, all that may be cast aside as we instead choose to enter and engage but if I'm being honest, absent some idiotic previous policy, such an order may have caused myself some tragic hesitation.

The timing of the event as we know it would dictate that my listed scenario couldn't have happened, I only mean to highlight that in a SHTF situation, anything that may create pause is obviously deadly.

well said top notch post

ltxi
02-27-2018, 06:01 PM
It's important to remember that Law Enforcement is one of the few trades where you can do everything right and by the book and still be fired.

You can be fired for doing, you can be fired for not doing.

Like living in a glass house and the whole world (now days especially the lawyers and leftist media) is watching your every move.

But it's still a job and many love to do it. Many would follow orders if for no other reason than to keep the job regardless if their chief or supervisor is a complete illiterate moron that don't know squat about Law Enforcement.

Then there's me and JohnH that just don't give a ****.

What is this give a **** thing of which you speak??

berettabone
02-27-2018, 07:54 PM
Believe me, they aren't the only 2 members of that club.............................................. .......................

Bawanna
02-27-2018, 11:01 PM
Welcome to the club.

JohnR
02-28-2018, 07:35 AM
I can join that club when my kids are grown up. Till then, someone's gotta be the breadwinner.

knkali
02-28-2018, 06:22 PM
still got a damn to give...damn

DM123
03-02-2018, 08:41 AM
A first responder now saying he was ordered not to go in. The plot sickens....

https://www.infowars.com/parkland-first-responder-i-was-told-to-stand-down-i-could-have-saved-lives/

Also here:

http://dailycaller.com/2018/02/26/breaking-deputies-told-not-to-go-in/

Worked for years as a county employed Paramedic. This has been common for unarmed emergency medical people for at least 30 years.

Bawanna
03-02-2018, 09:37 AM
I agree with DM123. Same everywhere I think. The police clear the scene and make it secure. It seems in a school shooting they could break it down into areas and get medics in sooner to area's they had covered already.
It has to be extremely frustrating.

Bawanna
03-02-2018, 09:39 AM
On the subject of medics I think those that want to should be armed too. They are medics, not sheep.

Also on the subject I think mail carriers should all be deputized, and allowed to be armed too if they choose for their own protection, not related to being deputized.. Not as responders but only eyes in the neighborhood. Nobody knows more about the going's on in a neighborhood than the mailman.

JohnR
03-02-2018, 10:26 AM
Our "letter carriers" seem to walk around talking on their cell phones. Not sure how much attention they pay to the 'hood.

Bawanna
03-02-2018, 10:37 AM
Ya know, my idea on mail carriers is at least 30 years old. My mother was a mail carrier for over 30 years. Things were sooooo different then.
Like most everything else (Law Enforcement too) the standards have been lowered so much so that just about anybody can qualify, I'm talking round peg in round hole simple that maybe my idea is no longer valid.

I know a few very long term mail carriers and they are pretty much disgusted with the way things are run these days.

I withdraw my idea of deputizing mail carriers. At one time it was sound, now, perhaps not so much.

yqtszhj
03-02-2018, 11:47 AM
On the subject of medics I think those that want to should be armed too. They are medics, not sheep.
.

Interesting note. I met a medic at my local shooting range a few years back. He carried a j-frame in his pocket. He said they run into some weird stuff on calls and he worked with one of the lifeflight helicopter crews most of the time. He also said he's seen more deaths from .22 than other calibers, mostly because people plink with them and are negligent because its a small caliber, doing stupid things like pointing them at each other and pulling the trigger thinking they are unloaded when they aren't. He also said that many of those are head shots too because people are stupid.

If you get squeamish dont read the rest of this post. He noted if the .22 enters the skull it makes a real mess because it cant exit many times and migrates just goes round and round inside scrambling everything. Paints a bad picture but makes the point ALL firearms can be dangerous and the shooter needs to be responsible regardless of caliber.

Bawanna
03-02-2018, 02:07 PM
Scrambling everything? Could be why I am the way I am? Don't recall ever being shot in the head with a 22. 2 or 3 times with a 380 but they didn't penetrate.???? I don't think.

Have been having some brain pain lately, maybe a couple got through......

ltxi
03-02-2018, 06:00 PM
Interesting note. I met a medic at my local shooting range a few years back. He carried a j-frame in his pocket. He said they run into some weird stuff on calls and he worked with one of the lifeflight helicopter crews most of the time. He also said he's seen more deaths from .22 than other calibers, mostly because people plink with them and are negligent because its a small caliber, doing stupid things like pointing them at each other and pulling the trigger thinking they are unloaded when they aren't. He also said that many of those are head shots too because people are stupid.

If you get squeamish dont read the rest of this post. He noted if the .22 enters the skull it makes a real mess because it cant exit many times and migrates just goes round and round inside scrambling everything. Paints a bad picture but makes the point ALL firearms can be dangerous and the shooter needs to be responsible regardless of caliber.

And that's why we used them. Std pressure shorts and subsonic lr...effective with little chance of exit, little mess, and play well with suppressors.

ltxi
03-02-2018, 06:07 PM
Scrambling everything? Could be why I am the way I am? Don't recall ever being shot in the head with a 22. 2 or 3 times with a 380 but they didn't penetrate.???? I don't think.

Have been having some brain pain lately, maybe a couple got through......

Came wthin a hair once, but I know ain't never been shot in the head....there goes that excuse.

JohnR
03-02-2018, 06:24 PM
Brains get scrambled, then they become Congressmen.

knkali
03-02-2018, 06:52 PM
Brains get scrambled, then they become Congressmen.
duuuude

yqtszhj
03-02-2018, 07:11 PM
Brains get scrambled, then they become Congressmen.

I knew there was a pattern. You nailed it.