Switching to a SIG P365?

[AnthonyC]

Has anyone thought of swapping out their Kahr CM9/PM9 for the new P365? It looks to only slightly bigger than those Kahr pistols with greater capacity.
Honestl , living in magazine capacity limited state, this looks like it fits that sweet spot between size/weight/max allowed capacity. Why carry a full size double stack pistol when you can only load 10 rounds?

BTW, I still think the Kahrs have the P365 beat for being a true pocket pistol in 9mm.

[ResJudicata]

I highly doubt that I would switch to the P365 or any single action for carry. I like the light weight and slim profile along with the safer double action trigger. I always go to a double action revolver or auto over a single action for carry. Just my opinion.

[getsome]

I thought about it but still haven't seen one in my neck of the woods...I had a Shield .45 that I just couldn't find a use for since I pocket carry and the Sig would be a little heavy with that many rounds so I traded it for a PM9 DLC which fits the bill just fine....This is my 2nd PM9 and I foolishly let the first one go which I regretted but now I'm back in a new Kahr and couldn't be happier....Did the new Kahr prep and lube and took her to the range last Sunday and put over 200 rounds through it without a single issue so I'm very happy with it and now it rides in my pocket replacing my trusty old J frame......

Welcome to Kahrtalk ResJudicata.....Best place on the interweb for anything Kahr related....Lots of nice knowledgeable folks here always glad to help out other members.....

[DavidR]

While I might pick up a 365 at some point I don’t see it as replacing my CM9.

My CM9 is reliable and I shoot it as well any other firearm I own.


Dave

[kenemoore]

There was the same sort of hype when the Glock 43 hit the shelves. I was at my LGS when they got their first one. Wasn't for sale, they keep it so folks could handle, play with it, and order one. I compared it to my trusty PM9 and said no thanks. Now they are all over the 365 the same way. Haven't seen one yet, but I doubt I get one unless I see one on the used market in a year or two. For me the PM9 is the perfect pocket pistol, it replaced my j-frame as my backup. It's not my primary carry, so the round count is not a big factor for me. I mostly rely on a CCO sized 1911, only 8 rounds total. If that don't "get 'er done", I'm SOL anyway. I bought a CZ PCR to replace the CCO, 15 rounds of 9mm, about the same weight and size, a little thicker in the grip, but being an old fart, set in my ways, I migrated back to the .45 and only 8 rounds.

[dustnchips]

Do we buy guns because we need to update, or just because they are new?

[Ed M]

Do we buy guns because we need to update, or just because they are new?

The voice of reason rears it's head.

The Kahr trigger is something I feel comfortable with. Having 3 Kahr micro 9mm's (PM,CM,MK), I'm all set.

Same mags, same holsters, slim and easy to carry spare mags, same ammo. Never a malfunction with any of them over thousands of rounds.

If 14 rounds aren't enough to get away safely, it's just gonna be a bad day.

You're just playing the odds, and whatever you're comfortable with. I'll stick with Kahr.

[white cloud]

I have a couple SIGs. Really nice shooting guns and very high quality. But my CM9 has always fired, fits in a pocket holster and can always be there. I feel the same way about my S&W 649. Not the latest thing but dead nuts reliable and I can carry it anywhere. The SIG? Not so much.

[Bobshouse]

Have you read the reviews on the P365 lately? I'm sticking with Kahr!

[b4uqzme]

I think the Sig is intriguing. I'd consider switching if my Kahrs weren't so.........great.

[O'Dell]

I've been a SIG fan for almost forty years, although HK has more recently captured my interest. I will probably buy a 365, but it won't replace my CM45 as my go-to carry gun. That hole in the forward end of the barrel is just too small.:rolleyes:

[WMac19]

If the positive reports continue since Sig first addressed the issues, I'll be getting one.

If it functions properly, shoots well for me and pocket carries similarly to my PM9 then it'll likely replace it.

If Sig develops a higher capacity .45 of a similar size to my PM45, then it'll be in jeopardy too.

Love my Kahrs but small with an acceptable weight and increased capacity wins every time for me. Sign me up.

[CPTKILLER]

I'm not interested in the Sig P365.

[yqtszhj]

Do we buy guns because we need to update, or just because they are new?

Even though I try to come up with a real good reason I always come back to this: I buy guns because they are there. It's just like my wife and shoes.

[2sBlind]

Does anyone know of any comparison vids/pics that compare the two guns? Regardless, I’m more interested in having the smaller overall package 👍 and I think the PM9 checks that box. And when the mag guts comes out for the PM9 it’ll only have 3 less rounds.

[Mike_usn_ret]

A week ago ...a big fat NO. Today with my CM9 in for trigger reset problems I have to say.............big fat NO!!!:amflag:

[Ikeo74]

The word is out that the P365 fits the same holsters as the CM9, PM9 and MX9. Count me in as a buyer, but I am keeping my Kahrs too.

[kwh]

If I had a Glock. which I do not, I would trade it in on the Sig 365.
Seems Sig has figured out how to put 10 rounds in a CM sized pistol, grip and all.
Will keep my CM for pocket and ankle carry. I like the trigger and the extra rounds would make it heavier.

[Alfonse]

I'very had one riding around in my pocket for a week. It certainly fits there as well as my PM9s. Like the Kahrs, a beautifully crafted pistol.

[1911master]

Alfonso, I agree. I have had mine for about a 2 weeks and have ran over 300 flawless rounds through it. Shoots everything it is fed and extremely accurate. Will it replace my CM9, no. But it is sure nice to have 10 plus 1. At 21 feet I had 10 in a single hole with 1 flyer.

[Ohsheepdog]

I'm waiting to hold and test fire a P365, but it looks great. If it works well and fits in my existing Kahr holsters, then it'll have a place in carry rotation.
Any of you PM9 & P365 owners wing to post comparison pics for us, please? [emoji41]

[yqtszhj]

I'm waiting to hold and test fire a P365, but it looks great. If it works well and fits in my existing Kahr holsters, then it'll have a place in carry rotation.
Any of you PM9 & P365 owners wing to post comparison pics for us, please? [emoji41]

Look about half way down the page here:
http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?31250-The-handgun-of-SHOT-Show-2018-was-definitely/page2

[SlowBurn]

Nope. A CW380 or P380 is a real, serious weapon that shoots very well, so for me a larger "pocket" gun defeats the purpose. But Kahr and everyone else sells a lot of pocket 9mms, so there must be a place for them. If you're going to carry one, might as well try out the Sig and see if it works for you but I'm not tempted.

On the other hand, the new Glock 19X is my idea of a 9mm pistol. 1 17 round and 2 19 round mags. There's extra capacity that might actually be of use.

[Bawanna]

Just held one of those minutes ago. It was pretty nice. I'd myself prefer to have a 17 slide and a 19 frame myself but it was nice. (for a glock).

[yqtszhj]

I'd myself prefer to have a 17 slide and a 19 frame myself but it was nice. (for a glock).

A g17 and a hacksaw to the grip, and you’re just moments away. That does sound interesting. If I could find a G17 cheap I might give it a try.

[Joe A.]

A friend had the P365 on order at 2 separate places. One of the stores called that they had some in. He bought 2, one for him and one for his daughter. He hasn’t shot his but son in law has shot the other and likes it.

Since he still has one on order, he asked if I would take it so he wouldn’t look bad and I said sure, what are friends for. So it looks like a P365 is in my future.

[Ohsheepdog]

Look about half way down the page here:
http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?31250-The-handgun-of-SHOT-Show-2018-was-definitely/page2Thanks! I found these as well...
G43, P365, Shield 9/40https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180411/b4f4bd8152f467fb690904508faca780.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180411/fce1a5680a33509bfcc4d9e510d66502.jpg

[kiki]

i recently had a chance to buy one! the owner of
the gunshop only had one for $550. was the updated model with sig xray sights! the only reason i didnt buy it, was for me the trigger seemed extremly light for me! i believe the trigger is 5-6 lbs but honestly it felt like 3lbs!!! since i didnt have another to compare i decided to hold off! outside that the size is nice and 11 rounds even better! The only other downside I saw...the back strap bottom corners were a bit sharp! nothing a lil sand paper wouldnt solve! but the trigger hole! Where the trigger protrudes out of the frame...had also some sharp corners...would bite my chubby big ass finger everytime i pulled the trigger...once again nothing a lil sand paper wouldnt solve....ill wait till prices drop and all bugs worked out😜😜

[AIRret]

Do we buy guns because we need to update, or just because they are new?

I buy guns (that are reliable) because I LOVE them…………………………………...

[Bigdave35180]

I just purchased my first Kahr pistol, a CM9 but saw and handled a 365 at LGS....I really liked it. All the Sigs I have owned have been good pistols. I wish I hadn't traded a great shooting Sig 1911 for that damned S&W 500!!!

[CCHGN]

I've owned and shot (in competition) a lot of different guns ( including a H&K P7), revolvers and semi auto. I least like the Sig, too blocky, looong trigger pull and the bore too high above my hand( I like for the slide to leave lube on my hand web). Never been a fan of the Glock. I admit, I've been a 1911 guy for decades, but the S&W M&P brought me into the 21st Century. My DW loves and shoots Walther's P99 and PPQ. I can see the attraction, but for carry, the Kahr is my new go to pistol.

[rice rocket]

I just got back from the Sig forum, there's enough concern with QC and supplier choice that I'm considering cancelling my pre-order for the P365.

One thread surveying the forum has about 15% of all responders saying they have broken strikers. 15% defect rate is catastrophic in the world of manufacturing, let alone a defensive firearm. Can you imagine if 1 in every 6 Honda Civics came off the line and became inoperable in the first 100 miles?

Granted, kinks will be worked out over time, but I'm wavering on my backorder pretty greatly right now.


http://sigtalk.com/p250-p320-p365-p320-x-5-pistols/305761-s-t-membership-p365-roll-call-striker-failure.html#/topics/305761?page=1

[Ikeo74]

I have had my P365 for 3 weeks now. No Problems at all so far and it fits my MX9 holster. Trigger is similar to Kahr's only there is a take up and a firm let off when the trigger is pulled. Shot 200 rounds so far without any misfires or jambs. It came with two magazines of 10 plus 1 and an optional 12 + 1 is available. Trigger pull is actually shorter and faster reset with the P365.

[mser]

15529155301553115532

[b4uqzme]

^^^ thanks for the pics. I think that grip angle is different enough that I’d be shooting the BG in the shins.

[MMyers1970]

I will eventually add a P365 to my stable. The fact that it's 10 + 1 in a CM9 sized package seems like a no-brainer. It is just a shame that Kahr dropped the ball and didn't make something similar...

[340pd]

I have owned mine for a couple of months. I am a RSO and shoot it a lot. My PM9 has always been flawless and while I was working it was always in my dress pants in a great pocket holster. After retiring a half dozen years ago I continued to carry my Kahr but if I was out with my entire family I always wanted more capacity without the need to fill my remaining pockets with mags so I shoved a Sig M11A1 in my waistband.
Along comes the P365. Huge capacity for it's size, familiar trigger, great sights, the rounded grip that allowed me to shoot as accurately offhand as using a two hand grip, and using the extended magazine is almost cheating.
I will keep my PM9 for the seldom worn dress pants carry but I am in the process of selling a few small revolvers as the Sig has totally taken over as my carry gun of choice and If someone asked me how can the P365 be improved, I could not come up with an intelligent answer.

[0ddl0t]

I just got back from the Sig forum, there's enough concern with QC and supplier choice that I'm considering cancelling my pre-order for the P365.

One thread surveying the forum has about 15% of all responders saying they have broken strikers. 15% defect rate is catastrophic in the world of manufacturing, let alone a defensive firearm. Can you imagine if 1 in every 6 Honda Civics came off the line and became inoperable in the first 100 miles?

Granted, kinks will be worked out over time, but I'm wavering on my backorder pretty greatly right now.


http://sigtalk.com/p250-p320-p365-p320-x-5-pistols/305761-s-t-membership-p365-roll-call-striker-failure.html#/topics/305761?page=1

Just keep in mind people who have experienced failures are much more motivated to post online. There were lots of complaints about the pm9 followers yet it still took Kahr what, 10 years to fix the design?

[7shot]

I've had Kahr's, Sigs, Springfield's, and H&K's in all different models but I keep coming back to a Kahr. Now it's a MK9 and wouldn't trade it for the world, just to darn perfect for me!

[franco45]

I'll probably end up with a P365 but that doesn't mean my Khars will be going anywhere.

[mirion]

I thru together a P365 vs PM9 comparison because the Sig caught my eye also. I think I will be staying with my PM9







Sig Sauer P365

Kahr PM9





Weight

17.6 Oz

15.9 Oz





Width

1.0 In

0.9 In





Barrel Length

3.1 Inch

3.1 In





Length

5.8 Inch

5.4 In





Height

4.3 IN

4.0 In

[CPTKILLER]

Not at all!

[SlowBurn]

Lots of problems with durability being reported. Striker tip drags in the primer and some have broken. Then there's this (watch to the end)
https://youtu.be/BYCCQjx0M8M

[Ikeo74]

It's a good thing that Kahr has never had any striker drag or any other problems.

[yqtszhj]

LOL, All my Kahrs have primer smear and I’ve never had a problem.

I guess Mac better not look up the history of CZ trigger return springs breaking (like in his P-01 that he loves so well.)

Sig may have some growing pains though I do agree. They do have a warranty for that reason. I guess it shows any gun can have an issue. Maybe Inshould carry 2 at all times which isn’t a bad idea. :rolleyes:

[SlowBurn]

My impression from issues with the P320 and now P365 is that Sig has changed. They're also putting their brand on every type of firearm, ammo and accessory now. Reminds me of Remington. Not your father's Sig Sauer.
I can't say I'd feel comfortable with an EDC gun that made drag marks in the primers. If either of my CW380s did that, I'd send it in, and get rid of it if they couldn't fix it. I feel I need to trust them. Similar to the reason I got rid of my LCP and went to Kahr in the first place.

[b4uqzme]

My impression from issues with the P320 and now P365 is that Sig has changed. They're also putting their brand on every type of firearm, ammo and accessory now. Reminds me of Remington. Not your father's Sig Sauer...

A nearby gunsmith forwarned me the same some time ago. I think the saying is: “too big for your britches”? In fairness, I think the P365 is a great gun in concept once they get any kinks worked out. And Kahr hasn’t been without their bugs either. They’ve been working those out for a long time. But I know that my Kahrs are running right and that’s the primary reason I won’t be switching soon. That and they are paid for... :o

[gb6491]

LOL, All my Kahrs have primer smear and I’ve never had a problem.

I guess Mac better not look up the history of CZ trigger return springs breaking (like in his P-01 that he loves so well.)

Sig may have some growing pains though I do agree. They do have a warranty for that reason. I guess it shows any gun can have an issue. Maybe Inshould carry 2 at all times which isn’t a bad idea. :rolleyes:
He did a video on his P-01 and mentions that the Cajun Gun Works Pro Carry package was done on it. From what I've read, the CGW trigger return spring is an upgrade over the OEM spring.
Regards,
Greg

[yqtszhj]

He did a video on his P-01 and mentions that the Cajun Gun Works Pro Carry package was done on it. From what I've read, the CGW trigger return spring is an upgrade over the OEM spring.
Regards,
Greg

Thanks there Greg. I must have missed that video. I think the CGW trigger return springs rate better from what I’ve read also.

[340pd]

The (insert your new model gun here) problems have probably way overdone. I posted this on another forum and I think it sums up the issue.

"Read and watch the internet reviews with a very open mind. The exact number of guns in the field is unknown but it is something well over 40,000. The early on problems were related to recoil springs resulting barrel peening and some failures to return to battery. How many of the very early on issues were user induced, nobody knows but Sig stopped production and in Feb. they resumed shipping with new recoil spring assembly and their upgrade X-ray night sights. There was a very small number of reported striker tip breaking and the cause was never isolated but as of late there have been no reports of that particular issue with guns shipped after mid May.
The P365 striker is a MIM part and that gave me cause to purchase an aftermarket striker made of tool steel. Expensive little devil but in my mind it removes any doubt the tip will ever break off. BTW, Sig and others claim any "swipe" marks on the primer have nothing to do with the manufacture of the striker and everything to do with the operation of the action. I have not read anything relating the unusual primer marks to any firing malfunctions. If someone has, please correct me with a link.
Sig is looking at a modification to their trigger return spring which on some guns will leave a slight scratch mark on the rear of the magazine which may have the potential to pop the trigger return spring out of it's hole when inserting a magazine. It appears to be a slightly sharp tip on the wire spring where it was cut off in the manufacturing process. This latest "issue" is easily corrected by Sig or any owner with two minutes and a swiss file.
Yep, there have been growing pains and Sig repairs them and gets the gun back to the owner very quickly.
"You pays your money and you takes your choice"
I have had none of the above mentioned issues and after 750+ trouble free rounds, I have found this to be the best combination of small size, high capacity firearm with a great trigger and usable sights I have ever put in my hands and it has been my EDC from round 200."

[CPTKILLER]

This means Kahr needs to do some serious R&D to be competitive to survive.

[yqtszhj]

Well I reached 350+ rounds yesterday and no problem so far. Great trigger, GREAT SIGHTS. I know I don’t have too many rounds so far but no complaints. Size is perfect. CM9 still gets carried at times in pocket but so far early in this game the P365 is a winner.

Should reach 800 rounds in June so we’ll see ....

FYI: Did some rough measurements on trigger weight and the P365 and CM9 trigger weights are about the same though feel is different. Both trigger weights are about 4.5 pounds at the break. The Kahr has smoothed out nice over the years.

[Ed M]

Finally got my P365.

Haven't had a chance to do anything but look it over and dry fire it a few times, but I should get to clean it up and take it to the range next week.

One thing I did notice is that when I dry fire it, the striker sounds quieter than the one I handled a few weeks ago. Wonder if Sig made any changes to the striker assembly.

Of course, with the amount of oil in this thing, there's probably oil in the striker channel. Time for a non-chlorinated brake cleaner hose down.

For me, the P365 just screams out for a Talon grip. The good folks at Talon shipped me one today. Always great service from them.

Edit: Just for $hits and giggles, I took the P365 into a dark room to check out the "X-Ray" night sights. The right dot on the rear sight doesn't glow at all.

I own 7 Kahrs, and not ONE has ever gone back to the mother ship - except for social visits.

A bit over 24 hours of owning the P365 without firing a shot, and I have to call Sig to see if they'll send me a new rear sight. I don't want to have to send the gun back already! I can swap sights myself.

This is a glaring (or not, as the case may be) example of poor quality control.

Edit Again: Sig asked whether I wanted to ship them the slide for them to install a new sight, or if I wanted them to just send me a new sight. Cool.

[Ed M]

Just an update after a bit over a month of ownership of my P365.

When I called Sig the first time, they sent an order acknowledgement for new sights. After 2 weeks, I still hadn't received a shipping notice. so I called Sig again, and asked what was going on.

The customer service rep apologized, and said he'd check into it. An hour later, I got a notice that my new sights were Fed Ex'd to me. Got 'em in a few days.

I prepped the gun as I do all my new guns, and took it to the range. Fired 100 rounds, and had 2 failure to feed the last round, and 2 fail to hold the slide open after the last shot. These failures were all with the 10 round flush fit mag - the one I plan on carrying in the gun. Took the mag apart, polished the interior, and smoothed the follower with 800 grit. Another thorough cleaning and the P365 was ready for the next 100 rounds.

Next trip, 100 rounds of Blazer Brass 124 gr, and no issues at all. Little thing really shoots great! Accuracy for me is on par with my micro Kahr 9mm's.

Last trip was for 150 rounds of FMJ (Blazer 124 gr, S&B 124 gr, and Perfecta 115 gr), and 50 rds of Federal HST 124 gr. Passed with flying colors, so into the carry rotation it goes.

I joined a P365 facebook group, and if you think people gripe about the reliability of Kahr 380s, you should see that group. All kinds of complaints about strikers breaking, sights either loose or inoperable tritium vials, trigger bar spring failures, extractor issues, and on and on...

Looks like Sig rushed the P365 to market without adequate testing - the early buyers were the beta testers. Sig has been doing rolling improvements, and it looks like they pretty much have the early issues solved. For anyone having issues, they're quick to send out call tags to get the problems fixed, Looks like they do all the incremental updates on each gun returned as well. Turnaround time is about a week or two, so they're serious about keeping customers happy.

[Ikeo74]

Nice report, I have also put my Sig P635 into my carry rotation after 500 rounds with no problems. 10 + 1 should stop most threats, if not 12 +1 will.

No problems have been reported in the late June and July Builds, so the bugs are history now. The big difference between Sigs and Kahr's is the Sigs will shoot any ammo right out of the box without any jams, Kahr's don't seem to do that.

[Ed M]

I guess it's all about what you're comfortable carrying.

None of my 9mm Kahrs have ever had a failure of any sort, and they run flawlessly with any ammo I feed them.

Having carried a snubby revolver for many years, I never really felt under gunned with 5 or 6 shots on tap. My PM9 is now 10 years old and has almost 6,000 rounds through it. It still shows no wear internally, and only a few tiny scars on the frame.

In cooler weather, I often carry something larger, but in warm weather, my CM9 or PM9 gets carried the most, along with a 7 round spare mag in a leather sleeve in my off hand back pocket. Kahr mags are so slim that I never even feel them even when sitting.

The P365 has been good so far, but my CM9 is still my #1 EDC choice. I don't see that changing anytime soon, if ever. Kahr got the slim, concealed carry concept right a long time ago. If it ain't broke....

[Ikeo74]

You are right, I didn't have any problems with my CM9 and MK9 either. I think having the right grip when firing the guns makes the difference between having problems or not having problems. I am used to small handguns because I have small hands and my grip is firm and correct for any smaller gun including Taurus 380's and the Remington RM380. They all work for me, I am just more accurate with the P365 and I like the larger capacity.

[Longitude Zero]

My P365 was built in early April and so far with over 1500 trouble free rounds thru it. It is my EDC.

[yqtszhj]

I never made it to 800 rounds on my p365 in June like I planned, I’m only up to about 500. Ended up buying a CZ P-10c. Put quite a bit of ammo through it ind it’s a keeper.

I did some accuracy comparison between the P365 and my CZ Rami. Needless 5 say I did better with the Rami but the P365 gets carried a lot.

Got another Goodie inbound so ammo will be somewhat devoted to it for test and breakin.

Hey Ed M, the 365 still doesn’t beat the Rami does it?

[Ed M]

Hey Ed M, the 365 still doesn’t beet the Rami does it?

Oh hell no. Sig makes a nice product, but CZ is in a league of it's own.

My MK9 vs the RAMI would be too close to call. Gotta try that some time....

[0ddl0t]

Just got my p365 and so far I am impressed. It is not a perfect pistol, but it is a distinct improvement over my PM9. Aside from the extra capacity, the biggest difference is how fast I can put a follow-up shot on target. I broke out some graphing paper and compared the two: the barrel on the p365 definitely sits a bit farther down - closer to your hands.
https://s8.postimg.cc/esgp9skb9/20180716_184007.jpg

The picture kind of washed out when uploading, but the p365 barrel is about 1/3 of a graphing square lower than the pm9. There are 4 lines per inch, so thats about ~1/12" difference. Doesn't sound like much, but you really feel it.

Sig's fit and finish is better than the PM9. I've always hated the PM9's air gap between the front of the slide and the frame and how the front of the slide nose-dives when dry firing (makes it harder to verify I'm not flinching). Plus the Pm9's flush fit magazine is anything but flush and has been known to pinch my thigh in my car when I brace my leg against the center console when driving curvy mountain roads...

But sig isn't perfect. The magazine's baseplate is larger - not just width, but length:
https://s8.postimg.cc/g8s7ri7o5/20180716_185353.jpg
https://s8.postimg.cc/83a5tewat/20180716_185324.jpg

Because the sig's magazine sits farther back, it tends to hang up on my palm when dropping unless I change my grip. The Pm9 magazine glides out unobstructed with my natural grip.

The sig's extended magazine is also hoof-shaped on the bottom. The extension really isn't long enough to give my pinky a good grip, so it winds up wrapping underneath it like with the flush fit. Unfortunately, that hoof/horseshoe shape really chafes my pinky during recoil:
https://s8.postimg.cc/4jo83sw7p/20180716_190021-1.jpg

Trigger: I love the kahr's long smooth trigger. There is no wall, it basically comes as a surprise each time the trigger breaks. But the reset is very long, and that really slows me down (and gives me more opportunity to drift off target when my technique wans)

The Sig's trigger feels cheap to me. About half of the travel is empty freeplay. Then it has a very short, reasonably smooth, bit of travel until it breaks. Reset is very short, but almost excessively tactile. It just feels cheap to me. I have the 2nd generation of striker design, which has a very dull springy sound when dry firing. Again, it sounds cheap (but it beats a broken striker).

For a pocket gun, I really don't like how short the unfree travel is on the sig's trigger. But I do seem to shoot it better at the range... I'll have to be extra vigilant and won't trust softer holsters like the fabric Uncle Mikes...

Sights: The 3-dot truglo sights on the sig are pretty nice. I definitely like them more than my PM9's standard "dot the i" - faster on target plus glow in the dark. Of course the pm9 has optional night sights too, mine just wasn't so equipped...

Weight: The PM9 is a tad bit lighter, even with equal number of rounds loaded. I was concerned the extra weight might make my jogging shorts ride low, but I honestly don't notice the difference.

Reliability: The PM9, after being modified with lakeline followers (and doing a little dremel work on them), runs 100% with everything I've thrown at it. The P365 has had two failures go extract out of a box of 50 Winchester steel fmj. It has fed everything else just fine - 500 rounds and climbing.

I do notice the P365's followers are showing some wear where the casings rub. I'll keep an eye on it, but this may eventually need Lakeline followers too (paging @Alfonse )

Takedown: Sig wins hands down. Lock the slide back, rotate the takedown lever from 3 o'clock to 6 o'clock, and the slide will slide right off. No need to pull the trigger! No wiggle/struggle to get the slide off like occassionally happens with the PM9. No tool needed (although my Pm9 is broken in enough I can push the takedown pin by hand).

Detail strip: Too close to call. The striker assemblies takedown pretty much the same, though the Sig's backplate is under much less pressure and not likely to shoot springs across the workbench. But the sig needs a punch and hammer to disassemble the extractor. For the trigger group, the sig wins in that it is part of a unit that can be removed relatively easily with the glock tool. For detail cleaning, this is as far as you really need to go with the sig. With the kahr you are probably better off spraying MAF-cleaner, but if you have the dexterity of a watchmaker you can push a couple punches out, unscrew a couple torx screws, and then carefully take out components mostly piecemeal.

Reassembly: Close, but imo Sig wins, mainly due to the fully captured recoil spring assembly. The PM9 needs a minor struggle to get the open-end of the spring lined up just right and to keep it from binding while compressing it enough to put it in place. Reassembling the sig slide is much easier. But with the sig that you need to make sure the takedown lever is still at 6 o'clock. If it has wiggled up during cleaning, you do have to hold the slide lock lever up while rotating the takedown lever back down - a slightly awkward operation.

Overall: I love my pm9 and will keep it as a backup & occasional range toy, but the P365 is definitely superior and has taken over as EDC (or will once my CCW is modified). The most noticeable difference is how much faster I can clear a dueling tree with the p365...

[gale155]

I looked at a P365 a few days ago, and it was the first one I'd seen. Pretty sweet little 9mm, but just a tad too big and heavy for pocket carry, IMO. It will definitely be the next gun I buy, but I'm holding out until it's offered in two-tone. Knowing Sig that won't be long from now...heck, they'll likely have 5 or 6 different versions by this time next year, and will probably be able to keep up with the demand by then.

[0ddl0t]

Quick update on my p365: I had a few more failures to extract, but this time with brass. All cheap range ammo (winchester & federal bulk)... Like the early Kahr P380, I'm pretty sure it would be fine with defensive ammo in a freshly cleaned gun, but I don't want an ammo sensitive carry gun so Sig sent me a shipping label and I sent it in for service.

On the plus side, the trigger got much better over the first ~1,000 rounds. I still prefer the Kahr's smooth, gradual pull to the multi-stage trigger on the p365, but the Sig doesn't feel quite as cheap as it did at first.

Other notes: It gets hot pretty fast and that heat seems to transfer down to the trigger. Part of it is the extra capacity + faster follow-up shots, but even if I pace myself to match the kahr, the p365 gets hotter round for round. The trigger also seems especially susceptible to getting scalding hot if the gun is left on a range table in the sun.

Another minor bug: the p365 frequently fails to lock back on empty. The sig fanboys are quick to clamor "grip" and even blame ammo(???). But it happens with a strong grip when nothing is near the slide release. It also tends to happen more on one particular magazine. Upon closer inspection, it seems that plasfic follower has some excessive casting flashing and it sometimes hangs up just shy of the top of the magazine. Not enough to cause a feed issue, but just enough to fail to slide lock. My pm9 always locks back... I'll hit that casting flash with some sandpaper and see if it helps.

All in all, I still love the p365 and it has made the pm9 seem that much less fun to shoot. But if you're not willing to be a Beta tester or deal with ammo sensitivity you might want to hold off a while.

[dustnchips]

@ oddlot Great comparison with reasoned information.

[SlowBurn]

I looked at a P365 a few days ago, and it was the first one I'd seen. Pretty sweet little 9mm, but just a tad too big and heavy for pocket carry, IMO.

I'm thinking pretty much the same, more because its heavy. A local range has one to rent and I got to shoot it yesterday. It was fun, surprisingly nice handling and accurate. I had no malfunctions at all. Its cool because its incredibly small for its capacity, but its lots heavier than my CW380. It wouldn't be a pocket gun for me, and I don't need another handgun that has to be carried on a belt so I'll probably never get one. But I understand the attraction.

[berettabone]

I'm seeing them come up for sale more frequently..................

[RH45]

Years ago, I was looking to buy a carry gun. I fondled a PM9, and ALMOST bought it, but, went with a Kimber Solo because Crimson Trace had lasergrips for it, and I feel that lasergrips SHOULD be on all of my carry guns.
I was at my local gunshop, fondling a 365. I did a side by side comparison against my Solo, and the 365 is larger, and I don't think the trigger-pull is as good. That said, I still might end up buying one.
On another note, my smallest carry gun is a BG380, which has a green, Crimson trace laser, and I installed a Galloway trigger, and a clipdraw. The gun conceals really well. I usually just tuck it in my waistband, but, I really HATE the heavy trigger-pull. Now that lasers are available for Kahrs, I'm really wanting to buy a P380, or CW380.
Has anyone done any accuracy testing with either, off of a rest at 25 yards, to see just what they will do?

[topgun1953]

If you haven't already, check YouTube. I know HIckock 45 hits his gong with the P380. I think its 80 yds out. My P380 is accurate for what I need it for but I'm usually carrying my P365 these days :)

[onegun]

I am a SIG fan and have owned the P365 but returned to Kahr for a pocket pistol. I believe the the P365 is a 'tweener' - too big for the pocket and two small for the waist. If I'm gonna carry IWB or OWB I prefer a larger P series SIG. I don't carry appendix - it might work there. My CT380 is the perfect size for the pocket and has been flawless so far.

[markman]

I have to agree with you 100%. I believe where Kahrs really outshine everyone else is the smaller pocket pistol models. I have a CM9, CW & CT380. The longer smooth trigger is perfect for a pocket pistol. I have no desire to get a P365. The trigger is too short and too light a pull and the size is a little to large for a pocket. As for belt carry there are many pistols I prefer over the P365.


I am a SIG fan and have owned the P365 but returned to Kahr for a pocket pistol. I believe the the P365 is a 'tweener' - too big for the pocket and two small for the waist. If I'm gonna carry IWB or OWB I prefer a larger P series SIG. I don't carry appendix - it might work there. My CT380 is the perfect size for the pocket and has been flawless so far.