Home Defense Strategy

[b4uqzme]

I been thinking more and more about adopting a fight-to-a-rifle home defense strategy and I was wondering how you all felt about that and if you all had any advice or criticisms. Does it make sense to stow/secure a rifle in an accessible place then use your nightstand gun as a means to fight your way to it? Just in case your nightstand gun isn't enough to stop the threat(s)? It should be an option right? Since my safe is in a remote part of the house, anything stowed in there wouldn't be too helpful.

[dao]

What's on the other side of your walls? No concerns about over penetration with a rifle? Would a shotgun work? Pistols are often easier to keep closer to the bed and in that scenario using one to get to your long gun is a good option. But for middle of the night defense, why a rifle? Not criticizing just curious.

[AIRret]

Do you have young children in the house? That matters when you decide on your strategy.
This is our strategy/plan; We have motion detecters is vulnerable areas in the house.
With the layout of our home there is a long hallway that leads to our bedroom….in that hallway we have a two step ladder with a flood light (the kind you put on a garage) on it that is triggered by a motion detector. We made sure, by trial and error, that the exact location would blind the person or persons coming down the hall way without allowing them to see into our bedroom. We love our targets VERY visible!!!! So, we have the light as a distraction, and the two step ladder acts as an obstacle. In the bed room Hubby (who would be the first person spotted) has a shot gun on a portable three rifle stand (it makes it much easier to grab the gun), and a STI 45 on the night stand. The plan is for him to grab the shot gun take two steps into the bathroom (concealment and a little bit of cover)
where his carry gun is also on the bathroom counter. I am on the other side of the bed which wouldn't immediately put me in the line of fire. My job is to roll out of bed hide behind it (concealment, no cover) and grab my Springfield 45 (13 + !, down loaded to 12 + !) and my cell phone with 911 already punched in.
We have practiced our plan and "actually" got to test it out when our alarm malfunctioned (which has been corrected). It was a reassuring rehearsal…WOW…we rolled into it without a problem, thank the Lord.
We do have other plans that are more flexible if someone breaks in when we are awake and in other rooms. For instance, we have identified hiding places that need to be carefully approached. Also, if someone unexpectedly knocks on the door (which happens now and then) one person answers the door while the person stays out of sight but aware and ready. This may seem being over prepared but I grew up in the inner city of Detroit. We would rather over prepare than be victims!!

[b4uqzme]

What's on the other side of your walls? No concerns about over penetration with a rifle? Would a shotgun work? Pistols are often easier to keep closer to the bed and in that scenario using one to get to your long gun is a good option. But for middle of the night defense, why a rifle? Not criticizing just curious.

Capacity?

[b4uqzme]

Do you have young children in the house? That matters when you decide on your strategy.
This is our strategy/plan; We have motion detecters is vulnerable areas in the house.
With the layout of our home there is a long hallway that leads to our bedroom….in that hallway we have a two step ladder with a flood light (the kind you put on a garage) on it that is triggered by a motion detector. We made sure, by trial and error, that the exact location would blind the person or persons coming down the hall way without allowing them to see into our bedroom. We love our targets VERY visible!!!! So, we have the light as a distraction, and the two step ladder acts as an obstacle. In the bed room Hubby (who would be the first person spotted) has a shot gun on a portable three rifle stand (it makes it much easier to grab the gun), and a STI 45 on the night stand. The plan is for him to grab the shot gun take two steps into the bathroom (concealment and a little bit of cover)
where his carry gun is also on the bathroom counter. I am on the other side of the bed which wouldn't immediately put me in the line of fire. My job is to roll out of bed hide behind it (concealment, no cover) and grab my Springfield 45 (13 + !, down loaded to 12 + !) and my cell phone with 911 already punched in.
We have practiced our plan and "actually" got to test it out when our alarm malfunctioned (which has been corrected). It was a reassuring rehearsal…WOW…we rolled into it without a problem, thank the Lord.
We do have other plans that are more flexible if someone breaks in when we are awake and in other rooms. For instance, we have identified hiding places that need to be carefully approached. Also, if someone unexpectedly knocks on the door (which happens now and then) one person answers the door while the person stays out of sight but aware and ready. This may seem being over prepared but I grew up in the inner city of Detroit. We would rather over prepare than be victims!!

Very good points and suggestions. We have a similar lighting strategy. I am in the process of rethinking the movement procedure and we will need to practice that. Placement of the rifle will be a big factor. It has to be secure but accessible. Shotgun is a good tool but typically holds fewer rounds than a handgun. I'm comfortable with a handgun in a low round count fight.

We have escape routes planned and those are preferable. But what if we get trapped/cornered? 30/60/90 rounds could save our lives? Use the handgun to get to the rifle then the rifle to get Smiley to safety.

I'm just starting to think this through. I've previously focused on quickly stopping the threat. But reality might not be that simple. And rounds available could help.

Am I alone in this train of thought? Thanks.

[CPTKILLER]

Fighting to get a rifle can be dangerous. It reminds me of:

"When you are to your A$$ in alligators, remember the mission is to drain the swamp."

In your or my case, the mission is simply to expel the criminals and protect the family. Do well with what you have handy.

[berettabone]

With all of the hiding spots and corners in a house, I don't know why anyone would want to be tiptoeing around with something that had a long barrel. Too easy to be grabbed, or hit something while turning quickly. In the home scenario I believe that a high cap handgun is your best friend. And a place to hunker down. Unless you keep the rifle/shotgun by your bed stand. " I'm in here.":p

[b4uqzme]

Fighting to get a rifle can be dangerous. It reminds me of:

"When you are to your A$$ in alligators, remember the mission is to drain the swamp."

In your or my case, the mission is simply to expel the criminals and protect the family. Do well with what you have handy.

That's the thought: why shouldn't a rifle be handy? In my case I currently have a rifle that is 99% useless in a home defense situation because of where it is stored. Isn't that a waste of resources? If I can make it more accessible, can't I also make it less dangerous to get to? And, if the mission is to expel criminals and protect the family, shouldn't I have access to all the tools available?

I'm just thinking out loud and appreciate the feedback.

[b4uqzme]

Is this a valid example of the potential of keeping a rifle and mags in a more accessible place? "...I didn't have time...I grabbed a handful (of ammunition) and started loading a magazine..." He did an amazing job and ultimately stopped the threat. But who knows what could have happened that required more than a handful of ammo?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15rlZKnR5ns

[b4uqzme]

Fighting to get a rifle can be dangerous. .

So can facing a threat with an already expelled 15 round handgun magazine... Is your point valid? Should there be a plan B, C, D...?

[Bawanna]

I thought that was poor planning with that dudes back ground.

I have an AR bought it last August. Haven't shot it yet. It's for the the black helicopters are hovering or Pelosi and ODonnell come to collect my babies.
I have several 30 and a couple 20 round PMags all loaded, easy to grab. Gun is in the safe, figure when they come to collect I'll have advance warning.

For everyday miscreants I stick with the 1911. The biggest challenge is the chair. Really no such thing as concealment or cover.

Now that its just me and the missus, figure we'll hunker down and wait to dispel boarders.

[berettabone]

I have 2 firearms loaded at my disposal, and the wifey has one. that makes 23 shots total. If we need more than that, I guess we're SOL. We have a small home, and know every square inch, even in the dark. We will stay put and give whomever the opportunity, with warnings, to leave quietly. If they choose to ignore this warning, then the castle doctrine in my state will give me the lawful permission to kill them. I worry more about the home invasions, than someone just straight breaking in. I always keep one handy in the living room while watching tv or whatever. Always have a firearm handy, and you'll be good in this life. Rifles and shotguns definitely have a place, but in a home, if it's not right by you, not the best defense in closed quarters in my opinion. Now, if you could use your shotgun/rifle right when they stepped in to your home, then they could be quite useful.

[JohnR]

I'd like to know what home invasion threat can't be stopped with a hand gun. Grizzly bears? Ok, got me there.

I've never understood any civilian application of the idea "use my pistol to fight my way to my rifle." Who is in between my and my rifle? How did they find out where my rifle is? If I stop them with a hand gun, why do I need the rifle?

I thought the saying was just a cute way of saying your rifle is a more powerful fighting tool than your hand gun.

[b4uqzme]

I'd like to know what home invasion threat can't be stopped with a hand gun. Grizzly bears? Ok, got me there.

I've never understood any civilian application of the idea "use my pistol to fight my way to my rifle." Who is in between my and my rifle? How did they find out where my rifle is? If I stop them with a hand gun, why do I need the rifle?

I thought the saying was just a cute way of saying your rifle is a more powerful fighting tool than your hand gun.

But isn’t that the point? That we have no way of knowing what threat may present itself? So, if I have tools at my disposal, shouldn’t I make them accessible and have a plan for using them? Just in case?

I’m fishing for valid reasons not to use a rifle for home defense. So far the over penetration issue seems to be the legitimate concern. And that’s only for some people who would rather risk failure vs. the remote chance they might shoot their kids through the wall. I’m not criticising. That could make sense. In my case I can afford to be better prepared. :boink:

I’m also interested in anyone who feels a rifle is a good idea. And if they have any tips for doing it well. Thanks.

[b4uqzme]

I thought the saying was just a cute way of saying your rifle is a more powerful fighting tool than your hand gun.

That could be.

[Ed M]

My nightstand gun is a S&W M&P 9mm, with a tactical light on the rail, 16 + 1, and a spare 16 rd mag. It lives in a biometric safe.

If I'm not in bed, my EDC is on my person. I also have a home security system with a panic button within arm's reach of my bed.

I live in a quiet residential neighborhood surrounded by good neighbors. The police department is 2 blocks away, and the only 24 hr donut shop in town is 2 blocks in the other direction.

I feel pretty secure, and I think I can hold out until help arrives. I really see no need to be "better armed" than if I'm out and about, but in just a few seconds, I can oblige.

[Bawanna]

It's been a long time back but I remember seeing bed head boards with flip open compartments that held a rifle. Seems like they were secure until the user hit a discreet button to open. Also seen racks where a rifle or shotgun hung on a little rack on the bed frame rail. The cover hanging over the side hid it.

The downside is if you need it somewhere or sometime when your not in bed, like a rabid dog outside you have to run to the bedroom for your rifle. I guess that scenario might not be quite as urgent as an intruder unless of course the rabid dog is attacking family or friends.......so many scenarios.

There are many many options for rifle and I'm assuming your talking AR style rifle. Person could even use frangible. I'm not sure what the penetration on soft tissue or clothing is but it has to ruin your day. It wouldn't do much damage after going through a wall for sure.

I guess ideally we need to have the tools available and grab the one we think works best depending on what's happening.

I generally always have a hand gun on my person at all times.

I remember an appropriate true story that might apply here.

A few years ago, met a friend/relative of a friend over at our vacation spot. Turns out he's a avid hunter and shooter. Very fixed in his way as some shooters are.

Anyhow we're sitting at a picnic table talking guns and he said he preference for defense was a shotgun. No need for a handgun etc, etc, etc,

So while I hated to do it, and admittedly I don't usually wear my gun at the lake but we'd just got there and I hadn't stored it yet.

Anyhow, my son who's a rather big boy is walking towards us. So I told the guy my son had heard he was a sexual deviant, child molester and he was coming to pound him into the ground like a tent stake. I laid my Cbob on the table and asked him where his shotgun was.

Funny thing, he now owns several hand guns and has a whole new interest level in them. Imagine that.

[b4uqzme]

I feel pretty secure, and I think I can hold out until help arrives. I really see no need to be "better armed" than if I'm out and about, but in just a few seconds, I can oblige.

Thanks. But at home I don’t have the burden of concealment. That makes a rifle an option as far as I can tell. And it sounds like you might agree? That you can reach additional firepower “in just a few seconds”?

Out and about I may have more opportunity and options not to engage vs at home. Awareness and avoidance are a significant part of my “out and about” strategy.

[wyntrout]

Ever since I bought my first bedroom furniture, the headboard had to have a sliding or opening panel of some sort on both sides. This one pulls down from the top and holds a bunch of things, but my Glock 21 SF and several spare mags are there, along with a strong LED flashlight, and a tube of KY Jelly... oops... Chapstick and so on. My wife's compartment has a light, G43 and extra mags, as well as a panic button for the house alarm system. I carry my P380 around on or near me, and any place I'm sitting there's another Glock with "standard capacity" mags in .40 S&W or .45 ACP. My Kahrs are for concealed carry under "normal" circumstances.

I still have my Mech Tech Carbine with the dedicated G21 SF lower, but I've never fired it, or committed to it. I still need to shoot that thing and set it up for home defense... more firepower with a Kriss 30-round mag and rifle-type sighting. I'd still rather have a .308 for real defense against anything but an armored vehicle. I figure that I'm f@¢ked if it comes to that.

I think that my Ruger 1022 with a great scope and the LASER fore end would be effective for some threats and easier to carry with a LOT of ammo if I were bugging out, but I have no destination. :(

I got the Mech Tech/G21 because I love the .45 acp, but wanted a better sighting system with a bit more range, then I decided that I really needed a .308, but haven't been able to afford one, even though I just saw a Keltec RFB at the last gun show for $1300! That used to be my dream .308.

I went into debt buying stuff for us and for sale before the last election, thinking we were going to be up s#!t creek, but fortunately, Trump won and we have a respite from the Left's crash dive into Socialism!

Oh, well. I'm ready for the next catastrophe. The Government Indoctrination Centers that pass for public schools, have done their work well the last 40 years or so and now we have several generations of dumbed-down sheeple trained to push for Socialism and even Islam! :(

[Ed M]

The thought process involved in carrying concealed also applies to your home.

Unless you are defending others at home, your best strategy may be to flee, and live to fight another day.

I live alone now (usually), and choose to stand my ground here. I rely on my training and skills to come out on top.

The worst part of messing with an old guy is the fact that life in prison doesn't hoid as much sway as it used to. :cool:

[JohnR]

It all depends on your home, its surroundings, and who you need to defend in your home.

If you live in the boonies on several acres, and you know for certain that the three creeps that just jumped your fence are coming your way but are still 50-100 yards away, a rifle is the right tool.

But where do you stop? A rifle in every room? If you live in a one-room shack, you're good. If you live in a sprawling mansion, that's another matter.

[berettabone]

I only have one firearm that's locked up. The rest are for the getting. If you have no children in the house, I don't see a problem in taking a rifle/shotgun out of the safe and putting it next to you at bedside. Lock it up when you leave, and take it back out when home. I know people who have many firearms in different places for defense. A bit much for me, but no one would call you crazy...........and they are out of the safe and being used, kind of. The wifey and I have discussed what we will do in case of trouble at one home. We need to get a bit more prepared for up nort, because everyone and their brother and sister own a rifle.

[b4uqzme]

Here’s a comparison of pistol/rifle/shotgun for home defense. Maybe a lot of opinion but still informational. Check out his explaination of over penetration...

https://youtu.be/i3sLHGduI3w

[JohnR]

Paul Harrel's "Top 5 Home Defense Guns"

https://youtu.be/K4FESGjiH3s

[Mike_usn_ret]

My CZ P07 is my nightstand gun. Can not see how a rifle can offer me a better choice for home defense when I can turn, grab and shoot instead of getting up and taking a rifle in my hands and positioning it....just to many more steps for me. If I have to get out of bed.......less compact area=more ability to navigate thru hallway and rooms with a handgun.

[b4uqzme]

My CZ P07 is my nightstand gun. Can not see how a rifle can offer me a better choice for home defense when I can turn, grab and shoot instead of getting up and taking a rifle in my hands and positioning it....just to many more steps for me. If I have to get out of bed.......less compact area=more ability to navigate thru hallway and rooms with a handgun.

Yes. A CZP07 or an HKUSP are my typical nightstand guns and my first option for defense. But I'm not convinced that it's that much more difficult to navigate thru your own house with a rifle. At least not so difficult that I scratch that as a number 2 or 3 option. 30 rounds + additional magazines of protection are a lot to give up. I'm also not convinced that capacity, if available, isn't a viable tool. The only argument against it is the logic that we will rarely if ever need it. We are preparing for what rarely happens right?

[b4uqzme]

^^^ maybe I should just get a Glock and a couple of them 30 round magazines... best of both worlds?

[Bawanna]

Prior to "The Chair". I made it a point that I had to move a short distance from the bed, just out of reach. My thinking is I wanted to make sure I was semi awake and able to make a better split second decision should it become necessary.

Now I keep it closer since getting just out of reach is more problematic and time consuming.

[JohnR]

I used to put my alarm clock "just out of reach" so I'd have a better chance of being fully awake by the time I hit the button. I've since gotten used to getting up at 6am so no need for that any more.

If you hold a pistol in a regular arms-out stance, you take up about the same amount of space in front of you as a carbine.

[b4uqzme]

Prior to "The Chair". I made it a point that I had to move a short distance from the bed, just out of reach. My thinking is I wanted to make sure I was semi awake and able to make a better split second decision should it become necessary.

Now I keep it closer since getting just out of reach is more problematic and time consuming.

I'll admit I was a little leery of getting a bedside gun for Smiley (Mrs. b4). Always figured I'd get shot on my way back from the bathroom. I got over that...sorta...I still sleep with one eye open. :rolleyes:

[berettabone]

Yes. A CZP07 or an HKUSP are my typical nightstand guns and my first option for defense. But I'm not convinced that it's that much more difficult to navigate thru your own house with a rifle. At least not so difficult that I scratch that as a number 2 or 3 option. 30 rounds + additional magazines of protection are a lot to give up. I'm also not convinced that capacity, if available, isn't a viable tool. The only argument against it is the logic that we will rarely if ever need it. We are preparing for what rarely happens right? If you don't think that it's difficult to navigate around your home with a rifle versus pistol, try it in the dark sometime. First off, I believe in letting the "fool" navigate around in my unfamiliar home in the dark. I'll stay put, and be on the floor bedside using it for cover waiting. If your foolish enough to have your handgun stretched out in front of you while navigating around your home in the dark, big mistake. Every corner you come to, they can grab the barrel of a rifle or grab your handgun in a flash. One more reason to stay put. Navigating around in your home, not knowing what the "fool" has for a weapon is a good way to get killed. Unlike my home, which doesn't have a second floor is even better. If your bedroom is upstairs, covering the stairs puts them at a huge disadvantage.

[b4uqzme]

We have escape routes planned from every room in the house. Getting to those is our primary strategy. How many rounds would I like to have available while we accomplish that? As many as possible. That's why I am considering getting the rifle down from the safe. But that doesn't mean I risk my life to go straight to the rifle. You underestimate me. We are getting out if we can.

Hunkering behind cover is another good strategy but a secondary one for us. Again. More ammo is good. So maybe the rifle gets stored at bedside like you and some others have suggested. I'm still thinking that through. A secure location is essential.

As for the difficulty of navigating through our home: the whole darn thing is gonna be difficult. I'm not for letting that stop me from being as prepared as possible.

[berettabone]

I guess that's where we are different. I am not going to leave MY house. They are going to leave MY house. Their only decision is how they would like to leave, and how fast. I have the luxury of owning an old house. At night, you can hear every creak, step, etc. I will always know where they are in my house. Most likely, they do damage getting in. I don't want them doing more damage and rummaging through our things, while I am across the street waiting for LE to show up, which they see, and escape out the back, where there are many alleys, fences, dogs. They don't make it easy for LE in this city. That's part of mine/wifes plan. We believe that although, taking someone's life is the farthest thing from our minds, if someone has the guts, moxie, stupidity, however you want to label it, to enter our home, illegally, without permission, and threaten our safety, our possessions, our peace of mind, then they deserve to get the maximum that law allows.

[b4uqzme]

^^^ Indeed. We all are different as we are all responsible for our decisions. Makes sense.

[Bawanna]

You saying I'm different? Hmmm.

[JohnR]

Between night lights and street lights, it's never totally dark in our house. Even if the power goes off, the night lights are constantly charged and will turn on.

Grabbing my gun as I turn the corner - someone's been watching too many Hollywierd movies, if you ask me. Sure, it could happen, but really?

Our bedroom is at the end of a "funnel of death" hallway, I can just wait at my bedroom door till they are visible. Before then, the dogs will be yapping their heads off. They're small, so there's little chance of hitting them.

[berettabone]

Between night lights and street lights, it's never totally dark in our house. Even if the power goes off, the night lights are constantly charged and will turn on.

Grabbing my gun as I turn the corner - someone's been watching too many Hollywierd movies, if you ask me. Sure, it could happen, but really?

Our bedroom is at the end of a "funnel of death" hallway, I can just wait at my bedroom door till they are visible. Before then, the dogs will be yapping their heads off. They're small, so there's little chance of hitting them. Yes, grabbing your gun as you round a corner, if you plan on sticking it out there for them. I don't watch movies and have spent my last 63 years in reality. " Sure it could happen but really?" Talk to the family that lives about a block from our home, where we often walk our dog. Their relative was killed 2 weeks ago, by someone who shot them 5 times through a kitchen window from outside in their yard. According to relatives, he was 66 years old, well known in the neighborhood, and no one can see a motive here. " Sure it could happen, but really?" Yeah, really. Walk around your home at night, with a handgun at arms length, and you're a damn fool.

[b4uqzme]

^^^ that's kinda my motivation for this thread: who knows what could happen?

[b4uqzme]

You saying I'm different? Hmmm.

They threw away the mold.....

[Bawanna]

That's probably a good thing.

[SlowBurn]

...second floor is even better. If your bedroom is upstairs, covering the stairs puts them at a huge disadvantage.
+++
Yup. That’s my whole “plan.” In the extremely unlikely event, I’ll cover the stairs using a high capacity handgun with night sights (currently Glock 19x.) They’re not coming up and we’re not going down.

[CCHGN]

I've read through all the pages and NO ONE has mentioned dogs. In the USMC, they taught us to have layers of self defense. Depending on how big your place is, 50 yds out, 25 yds out, 10 yds out, etc. Here on the homestead, we have donkeys ( great alarms)out in the "back 40", we have Guineas( even better alarms) in the back yard, we have Love Birds in the back of the house and 4 dogs, 2 of which stay outside and 2 that come in at night. If anyone was lucky enough to get close, a 12ga SG is waiting. I won't pretend to be able to come up from a sound sleep and be able to get my pistol on a moving target and be able to make good hits. 00 Buck is more forgiving. For my city dwelling friends, I suggest motion detecting flood lights around the outside of the house and smaller motion detecting flood lights inside the house. Get noisy, squawking birds ( if ya can stand them), but definitely get a dog. We have a Chihuahua that can hear folks outside, 20 yds away. We have Australian Cattle dogs. Cockroaches hate lights and noises. Don't plant bushes in front of your windows. Don't flaunt wealth or advertise that you have guns in the house. Put home security signs around your house (even if you don't have it) DO get those little alarms for your windows and those little wedge alarms for the exterior doors, at night. Btw they also make quick access lock boxes, in case you have children( in Florida, it's a crime to not have guns locked up , if you have kids in the house).

[b4uqzme]

^^^ yep. All good points above. We have two noisy dogs who are trained to bark their heads off whenever someone comes to the house. It’s a little irritating when friends come over though. Getting them to bark was easy. Training then to stop was a little more difficult. 😏

[CCHGN]

^^^ yep. All good points above. We have two noisy dogs who are trained to bark their heads off whenever someone comes to the house. It’s a little irritating when friends come over though. Getting them to bark was easy. Training then to stop was a little more difficult. 

Yep a bark collar works well....lol We have one that barks too much and so we put one on her, but only need it for a little while. Now, if they even see it, they shut right up. I can put it on them, but not turn it on and it works.,...lol

[CCHGN]

Also, I'm a Glazier (glass man) , I can get into your patio doors in about 2 seconds( lift them out), so run a few screws inside , at the header( not all the way through, to the outside), above the doors, so that it works, but can't be lifted up (unless you remove the screws). Put the broomstick down against the opening door( inside). Also, they make locks that you can put on your windows. so that they can't be opened all the way, that are removable (in case you need to, from the inside). Put locks on your skylights. Put mirrors around inside your house, so that you can see around corners and into rooms, etc, from strategic spots. Install cameras. Remember, if they get close to your house, several defenses have failed, if they get inside your house, even MORE defenses have failed. You want to deter and avoid the confrontation altogether.