Liberal 9th Circuit backs right to carry firearms in public

[DanTana]

For once a good ruling by the 9th Circuit Court.

The liberal Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals endorsed the right of individuals to carry firearms in public in a ruling Tuesday, striking down a lower court argument that the Constitution only protects that right at home.

Judge Diarmuid O’Scannlain wrote in his opinion that “for better or for worse, the Second Amendment does protect a right to carry a firearm in public for self-defense.”


In his dissent, Judge Richard Clifton said states have “long allowed for extensive regulations of and limitations on the public carry of firearms,” the order said.

"We are disappointed in the decision that would undermine Hawaii’s strong gun control law and our commitment to protect the public,” Hawaii Attorney General Russell Suzuki said in a statement. “But we note that Judge Clifton filed a well-reasoned dissent supporting the constitutionality of this law. We intend to consult with Hawai‘i County and work with them on further action."


It’s the second time this month that the three-judge panel issued a pro-Second Amendment decision, after backing a lower court’s decision last week to suspend California’s ban on the possession of large magazines.
The Second Amendment states: “A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”


Activists, supported by the National Rifle Association, have argued that the state's ban on ownership of magazines holding 10 bullets or more is unconstitutional. They won a preliminary injunction by a San Diego district court last year, and a three-judge panel on the Ninth Circuit backed that injunction last week.


Based in San Francisco, the Ninth Circuit has a reputation for being one of the nation's most liberal courts. Critics have branded the court the “Nutty 9th” or the “9th Circus,” in part because many of its rulings have been overturned by the U.S. Supreme Court. This includes an infamous 2002 ruling that the Pledge of Allegiance is unconstitutional because of its use of the phrase “under God.”

[Bobshouse]

I'm going out to open carry tonight!

[AIRret]

I'm going out to open carry tonight!

Outstanding!!!!

[BirdsThaWord]

I wonder what this will ultimately lead to in other states. I read this news in another article. They went on to state that the feds give states the power to restrict one type of carry (open or concealed), but that the states can not ban both. So...we can currently conceal carry (with a permit) in Floriduh. I wonder if we will be able to open carry as well? Me an a friend have talked about making a small vacation trip to Texas just so we can open carry for a while (feel a little more freedom).

[DavidR]

I wonder what this will ultimately lead to in other states. I read this news in another article. They went on to state that the feds give states the power to restrict one type of carry (open or concealed), but that the states can not ban both. So...we can currently conceal carry (with a permit) in Floriduh. I wonder if we will be able to open carry as well? Me an a friend have talked about making a small vacation trip to Texas just so we can open carry for a while (feel a little more freedom).

I live in Florida too. Started surfing the web looking at OWB holsters for my P9.

[CPTKILLER]

It may be a game changer here in Texas for Constitutional Carry and change of state laws that are way overdue.

[ltxi]

Just in case you're immediately tempted, guys.....recognize this ruling only applies to the western states, which include HI, under 9th Circuit Court jurisdiction.

[DavidR]

Just in case you're immediately tempted, guys.....recognize this ruling only applies to the western states, which include HI, under 9th Circuit Court jurisdiction.

Understood. [emoji4]

It will be a long time before open carry comes to Florida.

[BirdsThaWord]

Understood. [emoji4]

It will be a long time before open carry comes to Florida.
True! With the candidates we have for governorship right now, it’s not quite even 50/50. May be a bit as Floriduh has recently done some caving in towards the lefts desires for gun control.

[Mike_usn_ret]

I live in Florida too. Started surfing the web looking at OWB holsters for my P9.

I would hold off on that purchase. Remember..... Florida use to be an open carry state till the Tourist Bureau got to Janet Reno when she was FL Attorney General. With all the Parkland, and the nightclub shooting in Orlando I think politicians here in FLorida are playing cover their 6 and not going to consider open carry for a while.

[SKSears]

It has been awhile, but if I remember correctly, a person can legally open carry in the state of Florida if you are traveling to or from or in the process of hunting or fishing and have a valid fishing or hunting license. Hunting season has a limited time frame but you can be in the process of fishing year round! Please chime in if you have any info on the law.

[gale155]

I was a cop for a total of 30 years, and high-end armed security for 10 following that. I'm in Missouri, where open carry has been legal for quite a few years, but personally I've only seen it twice (that I recall). Having said this, I don't think open carry is a good idea, and I have never done so out of uniform.

When I'm out in public with a lot of other people around, I don't want anyone to suspect that I'm carrying a gun. For this reason, I'm even careful about what I wear...no Glock or NRA t-shirts/caps for me, nor any other item of clothing that might signal that I'm armed. To do so, IMO, would be a signal to a bad guy to shoot me first. Open carry, of course, would remove any doubt that I'm armed, and would be an open invitation for that first bullet. If I ever find myself in a self-defense situation, I want every tactical advantage in my favor, and the element of surprise would be one such advantage.

Open carry is also an open invitation to any bad guy who might want to take your gun away from you. Unless you're carrying in a security holster, and are trained in weapons-retention tactics, you're asking for trouble IMHO.

Another reason I don't like open carry is that it's going to cause the sheeple to burn up the lines to 911. As we all know, there are many people out there who are terrified of guns, and believe they are pure evil. Others, for purely political reasons, believe that all guns (except for police and military) should be banned and confiscated. These are the people who will be calling the police when ever they see someone open-carrying, and believe me when I tell you that they will call. After a while, governments are going to take notice, and start thinking stricter gun control...and we all know what that means. Why stir the pot? When it comes to government, at all levels, it's best to "let sleeping dogs lie".

I am as pro 2nd Amendment as anyone in the country, and have a gun strategically located in every room in my house. Although violent crime is virtually non-existent where I live and frequent, I've always got a gun in my pocket when I leave home. While I believe that open carry should be legal anywhere in the U.S., I just don't think it's a good idea...tactically or politically.

[berettabone]

I live where open carry has been in place forever. Conceal carry since 2011. Rarely do I see open carry. I have carried and carry both ways, but usually when I open carry, it is in the northern part of the state where this is more readily accepted and usually people don't blink an eye. In the big city, I don't open carry because of your last reason. I don't feel like getting face planted, or stopped and questioned.

[Bawanna]

Well said gale, I too never open carry. I like that's it's legal in case I have a wardrobe malfunction and my gun happens to peak out but I don't purposely open carry for all the reasons you mentioned. Same with shirts etc. I do wear a gun hat now and then.

I even find myself shocked and alertness level increases immensely when I see open carry. I'm all for it but I'm as much a gun guy as anybody and it's still rare enough that it gets my attention.

We get calls whenever someone is seen open carrying. Usually they are a group of 2 or more with kind of an in your face attitude to cops.
We've even in the past located them and strategically placed a bunch of officers in plain clothes blatantly open carrying to pass them or intercept them without any contact. Usually they are videoing the whole time hoping to get a cop all tied up.
Doesn't work for us, they are usually shocked when they see us just walking by like business as usual.

But you'll get contacted a lot while open carrying, makes the sheeples and even some gun people kind of alarmed.

[gale155]

Well said gale, I too never open carry. I like that's it's legal in case I have a wardrobe malfunction and my gun happens to peak out but I don't purposely open carry for all the reasons you mentioned. Same with shirts etc. I do wear a gun hat now and then.

I even find myself shocked and alertness level increases immensely when I see open carry. I'm all for it but I'm as much a gun guy as anybody and it's still rare enough that it gets my attention.

We get calls whenever someone is seen open carrying. Usually they are a group of 2 or more with kind of an in your face attitude to cops.
We've even in the past located them and strategically placed a bunch of officers in plain clothes blatantly open carrying to pass them or intercept them without any contact. Usually they are videoing the whole time hoping to get a cop all tied up.
Doesn't work for us, they are usually shocked when they see us just walking by like business as usual.

But you'll get contacted a lot while open carrying, makes the sheeples and even some gun people kind of alarmed.

I've only been retired for a little over a year, and am therefore still bored. :p As a result, I've occasionally thought about open carrying in one of the sleepy little towns close by, just to see what would happen. Fortunately, I've come to my senses before actually going through with it. With my luck, I'd be contacted by some rookie cop with his finger on the trigger of his Glock. I'm about 40-minutes away from downtown Kansas City, Missouri, and wouldn't even think about open carrying there. As berettabone alluded to, I'm not interested in being face planted. Cops are jumpy and nervous nowadays, and who can blame them?

[Bawanna]

Another Missourian. Our highly respected Administrator and his side kick and myself are Missourian's. I'm displaced against my will to the NW but often long to return. Born in Bowling Green, although my momma always claims she found me under a rock and often wished she'd put me back.
Guess I should feel bad about that.

Your right that cops are jumpy now days. Total lack of respect for the badge now days.

The one profession where you can do everything right and loose your job on hearsay. Tough now days.

I'm just an office puke but I see what the officers go through every day. Not like the old days.

I think we'd be a lot better off if they'd go back and make it PC to profile.

[gale155]

Another Missourian. Our highly respected Administrator and his side kick and myself are Missourian's. I'm displaced against my will to the NW but often long to return. Born in Bowling Green, although my momma always claims she found me under a rock and often wished she'd put me back.
Guess I should feel bad about that.

Your right that cops are jumpy now days. Total lack of respect for the badge now days.

The one profession where you can do everything right and loose your job on hearsay. Tough now days.

I'm just an office puke but I see what the officers go through every day. Not like the old days.

I think we'd be a lot better off if they'd go back and make it PC to profile.

Profiling used to be considered to be good police work, but as you say it's now politically incorrect. The reason, of course, is liberals and attorneys.

I retired from police work in 2005, and from security in early 2017...in the current environment, I'm very happy to be completely done with both.

[berettabone]

It's funny how just a bit of distance makes all the difference. Up nort where we have a place, there is a guy I've seen at the gas station several times who carries some kind of revolver on his side with what I would swear is a 10" barrel. No one even blinks an eye. In the city, they would wrestle him down immediately. A few years back, a guy near my neighborhood was out mowing his lawn with an open sidearm. Someone called and he was surrounded, put face down on his lawn and detained. He had been doing nothing illegal, so nothing ever became of it, but the guy was pi$$ed just the same.

[gale155]

It's funny how just a bit of distance makes all the difference. Up nort where we have a place, there is a guy I've seen at the gas station several times who carries some kind of revolver on his side with what I would swear is a 10" barrel. No one even blinks an eye. In the city, they would wrestle him down immediately. A few years back, a guy near my neighborhood was out mowing his lawn with an open sidearm. Someone called and he was surrounded, put face down on his lawn and detained. He had been doing nothing illegal, so nothing ever became of it, but the guy was pi$$ed just the same.

Environment makes all the difference, which is why I'm perfectly content carrying my .32 Seecamp, or my new CW380. I would never sue an individual police officer unless it was for something totally egregious, but if I were put down and detained for open carry on my own property, I'd sue the pants off the law enforcement agency involved...which in my case would be the sheriff's department.

[Mike_usn_ret]

It has been awhile, but if I remember correctly, a person can legally open carry in the state of Florida if you are traveling to or from or in the process of hunting or fishing and have a valid fishing or hunting license. Hunting season has a limited time frame but you can be in the process of fishing year round! Please chime in if you have any info on the law.

You are correct SKSears...That alone shows how stupid gun laws really are. If I am going or coming from the range...fishing or hunting or hiking I can open carry my handgun. For everyday use....(going to get gas or a burger...NOPE) it has to be concealed...of course with a concealed carry license. However back to Open carry during the events I described above...NO license is required...same as having a handgun in a boat or car.

[gale155]

I'd like to mention one other reason why I believe open carry may not be a good idea, and of course it's my personal opinion only.

In the unfortunate event that we have to shoot a bad guy in self-defense, there's always the possibility that we'll end up in court. If it was not a clear cut case of self-defense, and therefore not clearly and obviously justified, we could be charged with a crime. Even if we're not charged with a crime, we may be sued in civil court by the bad guy, or the bad guy's surviving family. In either event, the opposing attorney is going to try and paint the shooter as a trigger-happy cowboy or a Rambo wannabe, who was just itching for the chance to shoot someone. Of course this isn't true for the vast majority of we law-abiding citizens who carry guns for personal protection, but that won't matter. Depending on the jurisdiction, this would be more likely to happen in a civil case, as opposed to a criminal trial, IMO.

Could open carry give the prosecutor or plaintiff's attorney some ammunition in this regard? I personally believe that it certainly could, so I'm not going to risk it.

[Bawanna]

The common bad denominator in all scenario's is Lawyers.

[gale155]

The common bad denominator in all scenario's is Lawyers.

Absolutely! In fact, they are the root of many of our societal and political problems today.

[ltxi]

To my mind, open carry of a sidearm certainly does have it's place and I've done it a lot. Rural, open country, back country hiking, hunting, and anywhere else it's u&c. Cities and their suburbs generally ain't one of those places. Especially if it's done just being done to make a statement.

[leftysixty]

Around here, other than small hick towns, open carry will get you arrested for disorderly conduct at the very least! This happens when some libtard or crazy 'ol lady says "he is scaring me"! Just say'n!

:rolleyes:

[DE MAN]

Far left Liberals cannot handle open carry---They are too paranoid period. The biggest issue we all face is that our constitutional rights will be obstructed at the local State level of government especially if you live in a Blue State where the State and City government is majority liberal. Even though the Supreme court can rule in favor of gun rights the local corrupt liberal government will not obey the order and immediately proceed to obstruct the ruling. We see it occurring all around in Blue States. There must be consequences for politicians that intentionally violate the Federal rulings or else the liberals will continue to play games.

[Mike_usn_ret]

Far left Liberals cannot handle open carry---They are too paranoid period. The biggest issue we all face is that our constitutional rights will be obstructed at the local State level of government especially if you live in a Blue State where the State and City government is majority liberal. Even though the Supreme court can rule in favor of gun rights the local corrupt liberal government will not obey the order and immediately proceed to obstruct the ruling. We see it occurring all around in Blue States. There must be consequences for politicians that intentionally violate the Federal rulings or else the liberals will continue to play games.

Most important way to eliminate this......Many top LEO are elected....elect those that will not break the law when it comes to enforcement of these illegal laws.

[gale155]

Most important way to eliminate this......Many top LEO are elected....elect those that will not break the law when it comes to enforcement of these illegal laws.

County sheriffs are elected by the residents of the county, but police chiefs are appointed by the city manager...usually with the advice and consent of the mayor and city council (titles vary in some cities). In that regard, a police chief is no different than any other department head. City managers are appointed as well, so the only option for voters disgruntled with the police chief is to vote out their mayor and/or city council representative. Of course city residents also have the option of simply voicing their displeasure to their elected city council member.

[berettabone]

I'd like to mention one other reason why I believe open carry may not be a good idea, and of course it's my personal opinion only.

In the unfortunate event that we have to shoot a bad guy in self-defense, there's always the possibility that we'll end up in court. If it was not a clear cut case of self-defense, and therefore not clearly and obviously justified, we could be charged with a crime. Even if we're not charged with a crime, we may be sued in civil court by the bad guy, or the bad guy's surviving family. In either event, the opposing attorney is going to try and paint the shooter as a trigger-happy cowboy or a Rambo wannabe, who was just itching for the chance to shoot someone. Of course this isn't true for the vast majority of we law-abiding citizens who carry guns for personal protection, but that won't matter. Depending on the jurisdiction, this would be more likely to happen in a civil case, as opposed to a criminal trial, IMO.

Could open carry give the prosecutor or plaintiff's attorney some ammunition in this regard? I personally believe that it certainly could, so I'm not going to risk it. I've had this disagreement with others. ANYTHING is ammunition for a prosecutor in my book. The way you carry. The way you look. The ammo that you're using(that's the one that gets the disagreements). Your background. It's all fair game in a courtroom. It doesn't really matter if it was legal or illegal. It's all in other's perceptions, and how the prosecutor phrases things. If you ever have to shoot someone, you just hope that all the stars align for you, that everything was legally done, and you are in a conservative area.:p

[gale155]

I've had this disagreement with others. ANYTHING is ammunition for a prosecutor in my book. The way you carry. The way you look. The ammo that you're using(that's the one that gets the disagreements). Your background. It's all fair game in a courtroom. It doesn't really matter if it was legal or illegal. It's all in other's perceptions, and how the prosecutor phrases things. If you ever have to shoot someone, you just hope that all the stars align for you, that everything was legally done, and you are in a conservative area.:p

Right you are, and this includes any signs you might have on your house or property. My favorite is "This door is locked for your protection...not mine", but my door is not adorned with one. In the rural area where I live, the bad guys know that everyone owns guns and therefore stay away...no signage necessary.

[BirdsThaWord]

Very good points made here by all as to why open carry is not a good idea. While I’ve considered some of these points (mainly not making myself a target for bad guys or liberals and their “swatting”), I still want to do it once. Not in a city area, but maybe while out on a trail. Again, here that is already legal, so I could have done so, but just have not had the courage as I don’t want to freak others out. I figured that if I were in a place like Texas, where I supposed it to be more common, then I could do so without as much angst.

[ltxi]

Just where do you live that it's legal but would take you "courage" to trail carry?? I've never, in my 75 years of life, felt uncomfortable open carrying a sidearm when I felt it appropriate.

[BirdsThaWord]

Just where do you live that it's legal but would take you "courage" to trail carry?? I've never, in my 75 years of life, felt uncomfortable open carrying a sidearm when I felt it appropriate.
Floriduh. Any trails I hike around here are not exactly empty. If I were in a less populated area maybe, but here you will pass many people on just about any trail.

[ltxi]

Floriduh. Any trails I hike around here are not exactly empty. If I were in a less populated area maybe, but here you will pass many people on just about any trail.

Got it, at least sorta. When I think trails I, these days, think of Colorado mountain hiking. Not much in the way of populist skittisness wrt to open sidearm carry there.