Newbie with new CT380 gold slide

[Cynthia S]

Hi, I just bought the gold version of the CT380. Came with 2 mags, both too heavily crimped on the bottom plate to open without tools. A little tapping of a chisel where needed and they work fine now. Couldn't find a place in AZ to rent one, but finally found one (and one only) to handle at a gun show in Phoenix. Haven't shot my CT380 yet, but I've field stripped it and exercised the recoil springs well.

Have a class in cleaning and lubing in a week and a half followed by a beginner marksmanship class. I'm handling the recoil springs well enough. Went about finding the lightest gun that I could get all 3 fingers on the grip, only to discover my concealed carry purse weights almost 2 pounds. Need to get that cow replace.

I've ordered the itargetpro laser system, and want to get good at shooting from waist level. Bummer, local shooting range won't let you shoot from the waist. I'll be visiting their competition a lot I expect.

Cynthia

[DavidR]

Welcome. My CT380 is my primary carry gun. I hope yours works out well for you.

https://i.imgur.com/oVXNs8c.jpg?1

[Bawanna]

Welcome Cynthia, glad you found us.
Sounds like your on the right track and I'm confident it will all work well for you.

Plenty of help here if you need it and please let us know how it all works out.

[CPTKILLER]

This is my EDC pistol in 38 Super. A bit larger but much more powerful.

[berettabone]

There's a reason why they don't want you shooting from waist level. You'll figure out why. Personally, I don't see a reason why you'd want to.:o

[gb6491]

Welcome to the forum Cynthia!

I can see why indoor ranges might be restrictive about shooting from the waist.
However, the public outdoor range down here in Yuma is not that restrictive about practicing from the hip shooting...or at least I haven't seen anyone being admonished for it.

Are you shooing at Ben Avery? I've no idea if they are as restrictive: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ben-Avery-Shooting-Facility/137736049589404
AIRret has shot there; maybe she will chime in. Hey MB!

Many here shoot in the desert: https://www.blm.gov/programs/recreation/recreation-programs/recreational-shooting/arizona

Regards,
Greg

[Cynthia S]

Well, I'm not really interested in shooting from the waist, but that is what the indoor range here calls it if you do anything other than use your sights. I am interested in a percentage of my shots being 'point and shoot' at moderately close range. Just got the itargetpro, and it works pretty darn well. I can get lots of dry fire practice with it in any manor I choose.

I'm up in Prescott, so it's a bit far for Ben Avery. The Prescott Gun Club, an indoor range, is concerned about the possible angles involved, and I guess about a bullet going thru the roof or something. There is another indoor range in Prescott Valley which sounds like it may be less restrictive, an outdoor range in Chino Valley, and some sort of outdoor range in what may be on forestry service lands near Granite Mountain, close to Prescott. So, it looks like I have options that I have yet to explore. But, first things first. Need to get this gun thru its first firing, Aug 9. Well, no big deal for the gun, but maybe a big deal for me.

Cynthia

[Cynthia S]

OK, back from the Beginning Marksmanship class, and first use of CT380. Had lots of FTFs. Shot a total of about 37 rounds, but would have shot close to 50 if I hadn't gotten out of sinc so often with the group. I don't think I can blame it on limp wristing, as the majority of feed failures were after loading the magazine into the gun and using the slide release to load the first round, but not all the failures, maybe 2/3rds. I used 3 brands of FMJ ammo, Remington UMC, Armscore, and American Eagle and they all gave me the same problem. I'll be putting the rest of the 200 rounds I bought thru the gun in the next few days.

Cynthia

[DavidR]

Ugh. Not a great start. Did the gun jam or were you able to tap the back of the slide to make it go into battery?

I would put some more rounds through it but it’s unlikely that will fix the problem.

[dustnchips]

Try the steps in the "new Kahr prep" in this forum. It worked out all of the problems on my CW380.

[markman]

Check the extractor tension, mine was way too much. After I reduced it, it has been 100% with all the ammo I put threw it. My CT380 is one of my favorite pistols I own. I bought some of that Ventura (Ruger) ARX that I haven't had a chance to try yet, but I can't help to think it will be OK. The bullet profile looks pretty similar to 380 ball ammo.

http://i.imgur.com/AxqQHbd.jpg?3 (https://imgur.com/AxqQHbd)

[Cynthia S]

Does the extractor tension come into play when just loading the first round? It looked like the last few rounds seemed to be feeding more easily. Being out of sync with the group, I got as far as loading the first round a few times, but wasn't able to shoot, and went from loading that round, to unloading the gun.

I found it interesting that the owner of the range, who was helping out all of us newbies, said a couple of times that "that gun is going to get you killed". I let it roll off me like water off a duck.

I didn't try the 'tap the back end of the slide" because the owner of the range cleared it the first few times by emptying the gun, so I continued the practice to clear the jam. But I'll certainly try that next time out. AZ CCW class is now on a back burner until I get this baby broken in.

Cynthia

[markman]

Absolutely, it comes into play each and every time a round is loaded and unloaded.


FAILURE TO FEED
In most instances, an extractor that is adjusted too tightly (too much extractor tension) will cause a failure to feed. In this condition, the case head is not allowed to travel up, into the breech face because the rim of the cartridge never becomes fully-seated under the extractor hook.

Excessive extractor tension can also cause the extractor to dig into the cartridge rim, which is made of brass. This will cause inconsistent feeding or an intermittent feeding problem.

Refer to View “A”. This illustration shows the end of the extractor as if you were looking at the breech face from the muzzle end but it shows the extractor hook only. You will see on the left what the majority of extractor hooks are machined like. We want to radius the lower portion of the hook as shown in the illustration on the right. This area, when left with a sharp transition, can dig into brass and impede feeding.

The second problem area, View “B” is a view of the extractor from the same vantage point with the hook removed. You will see a small bevel where the case slides up the extractor face that usually has a sharp intersection. I take a small needle file and radius this intersection to smooth up the transition point.

When examining your brass you will find small dings on the rim of your brass, this is the area of the extractor that causes it. Similarly with the hook not being radiused you will find small dings in the web of your brass.

FAILURE TO EXTRACT
Failures to extract are usually related to an extractor with too little tension. With too little tension, the brass is not held securely long enough in the cycle to be properly ejected. The brass is allowed to loosely float around as the pistol cycles. The brass hits the ejector in a non-uniform manner and ejection is very random. One case may be tossed several feet, another case may just barely clear the edge of the ejection port.

https://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn/learndetail.aspx?lid=10261



Does the extractor tension come into play when just loading the first round?

[markman]

In all the Kahrs that I have seen with the tight extractors, a tap on the slide would make it go into battery. I'm not trying to be condescending, because I don't know your level of skill, but be sure to keep your finger off the trigger and keep the pistol pointed down range when you do it.


I didn't try the 'tap the back end of the slide" because the owner of the range cleared it the first few times by emptying the gun, so I continued the practice to clear the jam. But I'll certainly try that next time out. AZ CCW class is now on a back burner until I get this baby broken in.

[Cynthia S]

I don't mind good hearted reminders. I'll be cleaning and lubing the CT380 tonight based on the stickies here, and not on the cleaning class I took that seem to have missed a few things. He was using a multi function spray, so only the rails got oiled independently from the multi cleaner. Striker channel did not get cleaned.

Cynthia

[Bawanna]

Don't worry too much about that striker channel. It's fine to clean it once in awhile but not generally a big issue after each shooting session.

It should be left dry. If your talking about squirting some brake cleaner in there to flush it out, that's fine. I don't even do that every time, in fact I seldom do.

Don't lose any sleep over instructor comments neither. They have a natural tendency to put down things they don't understand.
I think it would be best to get a bunch of rounds shot and get the gun running well before any class's.

[Cynthia S]

Well, I thought, since I had a spray can of what I thought was a gun cleaner, I'd go ahead and clean the striker channel. To my surprise, the spray can, G96 Gun Treatment, spewed out foam all over my slide. I had used Outers Tri-care before, which seemed like 95% cleaner and 5% oil, and I was expecting something similar. The Gun Treatment on the other hand was totally greasy, maybe 95% oil and 5% cleaner. Talk about not oiling the striker channel, I probably flooded it with oil. I found I had some CRC Electronic Contact Cleaner on hand, so flushed the channel well with that. Gun Scrubber on order at Amazon.

Not happy at all with the local indoor shooting range. In the small print under their range fees, it says the fees are based on one hour use and when busy may be by the half hour. :(

The indoor range the next city over has no time limit, talks about a 'point and shoot' class, and has a ladies day at half off. I'm really beginning to warm toward this range. So I guess I'll get the other 160 rounds of the break-in fired this coming Thursday (Ladies Day), or at least get a good start on it.

Cynthia

[Ed M]

Cynthia - Walmart.......$3 per can. Make sure it is the non-chlorinated, 50 state formula. Works great - just like gun scrubber.

The CRC Brake cleaner in the red can is a no no for plastic parts. Regular Birchwood Casey Gun Scrubber is also a no no. Gotta be the synthetic safe formula - yes there is two different formulas.


15643

[Cynthia S]

I ordered this one, https://smile.amazon.com/Birchwood-Casey-Scrubber-Firearms-15-Ounce/dp/B00BD4ZDY0/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1534180400&sr=1-1&keywords=gun+scrubber . Says it's synthetic safe, but I will still protect the paint on the sights, and the ArachniGrip on the slide while using it. Will probably also pick up a green can of Brakleen next time I'm in Walmart.

Cynthia

[Cynthia S]

Back from the range. I have my 200 rounds in now. I started shooting today with a full box of Blazer Brass and the first 2 8rnd mags were flawless. Quite shocking after the previous experience. Out of a box of 50, I only had one failure to feed, and hitting the back of the slide fixed it. The remainder of the box of American Eagle, about 2/3rds full, had only one similar failure to feed. The remaining 2/3rds of the Remington UMC box had 8 failures to feed, but the remainder of the Armscor 2/3rds box, the cheapest ammo I bought, was terrible, maybe 40% failure to feed, and some of those were bad enough you could not hit the back of the slide to make the shell seat, but had to eject the shell. Also 1 misfire in the Armscor lot. So, I'll stick with Blazer Brass and American Eagle for target practice.

I'll be looking for the ARX ammo at the show Saturday.

I noticed that the force to pull the trigger was not always the same, sometimes much easier.

So, what is:

1) FTF? (Failure To Feed?) Is this what I had when I could hit the back of the slide and seat the shell?
2) FTRB? (Failure To Return to Battery?) And how does this differ from FTF
3) Stove pipe? Is this where the shell is so badly positioned that you have to eject the shell.

Cynthia

[CharlieW]

Cynthia, I had a few issues to work thru on my CW380. FWIW, here is what I have learned - 1) there is a significant variation in .380 ammo from different manufacturers; European made ammo may have rims that are larger than the SAAMI spec and will not eject properly; Fiocchi, for example does not run well in my pistol. 2) my Kahr 380 has a tight chamber -- I had a box of Remington green box ammo that would not pass the "plunk test". Most quality SD ammo runs perfectly. 3) there is a wealth of information on the forum about tweaking and updating the Kahr 380's - I have looked at most of it and there are some good suggestions that are within my mechanical capabilities, and I have made some updates, but my basic approach has been to test a variety of ammo and keep using what works in my gun. 4) Kahr customer service generally has a good reputation among the forum members, and I would not hesitate to use them. 5) After break-in my Kahr 380 has been a pleasure to shoot - it runs well, is surprisingly accurate, and easy to carry. Good Luck with your new pistol!

[gale155]

Back from the range. I have my 200 rounds in now. I started shooting today with a full box of Blazer Brass and the first 2 8rnd mags were flawless. Quite shocking after the previous experience. Out of a box of 50, I only had one failure to feed, and hitting the back of the slide fixed it. The remainder of the box of American Eagle, about 2/3rds full, had only one similar failure to feed. The remaining 2/3rds of the Remington UMC box had 8 failures to feed, but the remainder of the Armscor 2/3rds box, the cheapest ammo I bought, was terrible, maybe 40% failure to feed, and some of those were bad enough you could not hit the back of the slide to make the shell seat, but had to eject the shell. Also 1 misfire in the Armscor lot. So, I'll stick with Blazer Brass and American Eagle for target practice.

I'll be looking for the ARX ammo at the show Saturday.

I noticed that the force to pull the trigger was not always the same, sometimes much easier.

So, what is:

1) FTF? (Failure To Feed?) Is this what I had when I could hit the back of the slide and seat the shell?
2) FTRB? (Failure To Return to Battery?) And how does this differ from FTF
3) Stove pipe? Is this where the shell is so badly positioned that you have to eject the shell.

Cynthia

You may find this informative and useful:

https://www.usacarry.com/handgun-malfunctions-stoppages/

[Cynthia S]

OK Gale, now I know what a 'stove pipe' is, an ejected shell hanging up in the chamber on the way out. My tappable shells were clearly FTFs by that article, but the shells that jammed so badly that the chamber was pretty much completely open with the shell fully visible must have another name.

Thinking back over the 2nd range episode, several things. I changed my hand use. I stopped using the complicated hand hold used in the first range session, and held the gun in the right hand, much like I would in a defense situation, and used the left hand as a helper only, but not as a gun holder. This allowed me to concentrate on holding the gun firmly with the right hand. This means less limp wristing, but doesn't explain the jams of the first round of each magazine during the first range episode.

This last time, I shot 165 rounds and after half way thru the pad of my trigger finger got sore, and had to shift my finger to using the first joint, which barely allowed enough range to fire the gun. I ordered a grip from Kahr and hope this will give a little more range for that finger

My husband just bought a Walther PK380, so I can experiment further with types of ammo, and if they don't work well in the CT380, I'll give the stuff to him.

Cynthia

[Cynthia S]

Third trip to range after 200 round break-in. Shot 34 rounds of Blazer Brass flawlessly. Shot 50 rounds of Ventura ARX (Ruger stamped), and 2 rounds failed to feed. One loaded halfway and another loaded 80% of the way, but neither would complete the loading with a hard tap to the back of the slide, and had to be ejected. Looks like I'm going to have to shoot up the entire 250 rounds before I'll feel comfortable using this stuff for defensive carry. One was using a standard mag, and one was using a magguts converted mag.

Got a new carry purse, 10 oz lighter and I dropped the use of a weighty billfold. ( https://thewellarmedwoman.com/product/quilted-microfiber-shoulder-bag ). I'm extremely happy with the results. The gun will be in the outside pouch and very easy to access. I put the tassel directly on the zipper that accesses the gun so it is an easy grab.

AZ CCW class Sunday.

Cynthia

PS. I'll do the plunk test tomorrow when I clean the gun using Blazer Brass, Armscorp, and ARX.

[Armybrat]

:yo:
Belated welcome!

Hope you enjoy your CT380 as much as I do mine.