CW380 Extractor

[miamivicedade]

Hello All!

I was wondering if anyone knows if Kahr is using a new extractor in the cw380s, since so many of the issues with FTFeed and FT Go into battery seem to be related to an improper extractor. From reading a lot, it seems that an "extractor modification" or "rounding off of part of the extractor" has solved a bunch of people's problems. Does anyone know if Kahr is aware of this, or have issued a new type of extractor? Has anyone gotten a CW380 back from the mothership and seen extractor work done? Any insight would be appreciated. Thank you.

[markman]

I seem to be in the minority here, but changing the extractor will not help the problem if the extractor tension is too much. I would check that first.

[skiflydive]

I seem to be in the minority here, but changing the extractor will not help the problem if the extractor tension is too much. I would check that first.

+1...

[miamivicedade]

Thanks all. Does Kahr (or any aftermarket company) make a shorter rear extractor pin for the cw380? In reading, it appears that a shorter pin helps tremendously with cycling issues.

[Ed M]

There's basically 3 different modifications to the extractor mechanism that can be found on this forum.

1 - Rounding the bottom edge of the extractor "claw" to allow a casing to slide under it easier.

Kahr must be aware of this, as all 3 of my 380s came from the factory with that bottom edge ground off at an angle.

2- Removing material from the inside of the extractor "post".

I removed .010" of material from my extractor posts on the inside of the post, and this did the trick for me. HOWEVER, this mod also reduces the extractor tension as well.

3 - Remove material from the rear extractor pin to lessen extractor tension.

Markman did a fine job of bringing the real issue of extractor tension to the forefront. I agree that this is the root cause of the 380 feed problems, and the easiest fix to do.

That pin is a $2 part, so there's not much risk with ruining anything expensive. Markman also uses a simple but effective way to actually measure extractor tension.

IIRC, somewhere under 2 lbs was the magic number. And yes, Kahr is aware of the extractor tension being the cause of the 380 feed problems (or most of them).

[miamivicedade]

Thank you very much for the reply.

[Ed M]

Thanks all. Does Kahr (or any aftermarket company) make a shorter rear extractor pin for the cw380? In reading, it appears that a shorter pin helps tremendously with cycling issues.


Not that I'm aware of. Gonna have to do it yourself....

If I had to do another 380 that had feed issues, I'd cut off a piece from the back of an appropriate size drill bit, and work with that. A dremel with a cutoff wheel and a set of digital calipers would help.

Someone on this forum cut a coil or two off their extractor spring and got the desired result - just another option....

[markman]

It might help to read this thread below. It explains one way to measure the extractor tension. The mods said they were going to make it a "Sticky" then changed their minds.

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?31227-New-cw380-first-shots

[skiflydive]

My CW380 had failure to fully go into battery issues when it was new, even after 200 rounds. The rounds were hanging going behind the extractor. I started by filing the extractor post and rounding the bottom of the claw. That took care of about 25% of the issue. I ordered a new extractor and that took care of another 25%. The new one just worked better than the modified one. I measured the total length of the extractor pins and spring from my P380, which is flawless, and took about .022" off the length of the rear pin to make the total stack the same. That solved the rest of the problem completely. I had it at the range today for 100 rounds of PMC Bronze and 12 of Hornady Critical Defense. The gun was flawless. No failures of any kind. Were I to do it all again I might start with shortening the rear pin. Would I rather the gun was perfect out of the box? Absolutely. Did I mind fiddling around learning about the gun and fixing it myself? Absolutely not. I enjoyed myself because I'm pretty mechanical and now I have a perfectly functioning CW380.

[DavidR]

I can only add anecdotally:

I had a CW380 a few years ago that was an absolute dud. Lots of rounds and a trip back to Kahr didn’t fix it. Constant FTRB.

I bought a CT380 earlier this year and it functions really well including cycling Lehigh Xtreme Defense and Penetrator rounds.

[miamivicedade]

My CW380 had failure to fully go into battery issues when it was new, even after 200 rounds. The rounds were hanging going behind the extractor. I started by filing the extractor post and rounding the bottom of the claw. That took care of about 25% of the issue. I ordered a new extractor and that took care of another 25%. The new one just worked better than the modified one. I measured the total length of the extractor pins and spring from my P380, which is flawless, and took about .022" off the length of the rear pin to make the total stack the same. That solved the rest of the problem completely. I had it at the range today for 100 rounds of PMC Bronze and 12 of Hornady Critical Defense. The gun was flawless. No failures of any kind. Were I to do it all again I might start with shortening the rear pin. Would I rather the gun was perfect out of the box? Absolutely. Did I mind fiddling around learning about the gun and fixing it myself? Absolutely not. I enjoyed myself because I'm pretty mechanical and now I have a perfectly functioning CW380.

Thanks. I bought 3 rear extractor pins from Midway yesterday. I will attempt this one of those after doing a comparison to see if they are the same size as the one in the pistol. I will take .010 off, and go from there. Thanks for the advice.

[u380b]

I can also affirm a few things.

I bought an extra slide assembly off ebay (I guess someone trashed part of the frame). At any rate....

The used slide I bought was later than my CW380. It confirms Kahr is making changes and is aware.
-Extractor shaping was slightly different.
-the solid pin at the rear end of the extractor and spring was a bit shorter- thus placing less pressure on the extractor/spring.

I can also confirm an earlier post that the diameter if the extractor spring retaining pin is EXACTLY the diameter of common Dremel bits. So yes.... this DOES allow for cheap and easy experimentation of differing length retaining pins without doing a mod on the stock pin.

I use an old Dremel shaft as a pusher when cleaning. Sometimes the spring stays in the hole and doesn't want to come out. So I just slide the dremel shaft in there to push the spring out.

[Bawanna]

Never thought of that, that's brilliant. I got loads of used up Dremel bit laying around.

Don't totally agree that they are cheap, I cringe every time I have to buy them, but one does what one must do.

[dustnchips]

u380b The slide you bought may have had modified extractor and extractor pin in it.

[linksrds]

Have you contacted Kahr and asked about the new extractor?

[mpgo4th]

I’m curious to see if the three pins you bought are the exact same size? I ordered two from midway when I did this to my 380. They were pretty cheap ($7) shipped for two. I figured if I messed up and sanded off too much from the factory one then I’d have spares to try agin. I got it right with the factory one so the new ones sit in my tool box for a rainy day.


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[Guy Baleno]

Does anyone know the factory length of the rear extractor pin for the P380. I have one that is .438 and one that is .520???? Thanks for any help

[markman]

Personally, I wouldn’t go by the length, I would measure the extractor tension with the pins in the pistol.

[skiflydive]

Does anyone know the factory length of the rear extractor pin for the P380. I have one that is .438 and one that is .520???? Thanks for any help


There can be variation in all 3 parts so you can't just use the length of the rear pin. You have to use the entire stack of the front pin, spring, and rear pin. My P380 total stack is 1.878". My CW380 was 1.913" but I took .020 off the rear pin to make it 1.893" total. The spring in the P380 was .648 and the CW 380 was .764 so there was a big difference there too. It seems like a total stack @1.880 -1.890 is a reasonable target. YMMV (BTW - don't try to measure all 3 parts together. Parts will fly... Measure each component and add the lengths together...)

[markman]

I'm not a big fan measuring the whole assembly and compare it to others. It's possible it could work or you can be setting yourself up for failure. Here's part of a post I made in a previous thread.



That's also the reason I won't just measure the whole assembly and compare it to others. Like I explained earlier with the tolerance stacking. Your not taking into account the spring rates, pocket depth in the rear slide cover, the location of the pocket machined in the slide where the extractor pivots, etc etc etc. It's too dam easy just to measure the tension. On the tension, I try to get it as close as possible without getting anal.

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?31227-New-cw380-first-shots (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?31227-New-cw380-first-shots)

[skiflydive]

I'm not a big fan measuring the whole assembly and compare it to others. It's possible it could work or you can be setting yourself up for failure. Here's part of a post I made in a previous thread.



That's also the reason I won't just measure the whole assembly and compare it to others. Like I explained earlier with the tolerance stacking. Your not taking into account the spring rates, pocket depth in the rear slide cover, the location of the pocket machined in the slide where the extractor pivots, etc etc etc. It's too dam easy just to measure the tension. On the tension, I try to get it as close as possible without getting anal.

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?31227-New-cw380-first-shots (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?31227-New-cw380-first-shots)

I agree 100% on the tension being critical. It just seemed difficult and finicky to me. No shade on you...it's all on me. You are correct. I just found that measuring the one I had that worked fine and making the stack the same on the one that wasn't working so well was a good easy shot...and it worked. I'm aware of spring rate differentials etc. but what I did worked fine.

[markman]

The bottom line is that it works. I just like to get that info out, because I'm aware of one person who did that and still had troubles. When he checked and reduced the tension his problem went away. That's another reason I'd check the tension before I'd take the pistol apart. While it is a big problem with Kahr pistols, that might not be the only problem. But you got the pistol to work and that's all that matters.

[Guy Baleno]

The bottom line is that it works. I just like to get that info out, because I'm aware of one person who did that and still had troubles. When he checked and reduced the tension his problem went away. That's another reason I'd check the tension before I'd take the pistol apart. While it is a big problem with Kahr pistols, that might not be the only problem. But you got the pistol to work and that's all that matters.

I will try to set extractor tension per your excellent post with pictures. I will keep you posted!

[Guy Baleno]

Just set the extractor tension to about 2lbs. Followed Markmans directions it took about 3 tries shortening the rear pin to get it at 2lbs. Now its off to the range for the final test.

[markman]

I can't say whether it's an accurate or reliable test or not, but on the ones I've done, I am able to load a round in the chamber while riding the slide forward. I don't have to slingshot the slide or use the Kahr recommended use of the slide stop.

[Guy Baleno]

Finally got my P380 out to the range since I adjusted the extractor tension to about 2lbs as markman suggested. It ran flawlessly (50) Lehigh Valley Xtreme Penetrator 90gr, (50) Precision One 90gr HP/XTP, (50) Hornady Critical Defense 90gr FTX. No problems at all, my extractor is rounded and I installed magguts in my magazine. I will putting more rounds thru it and do a follow up report. Thanks to all on this forum for posting adjustments for this wonderful pistol.

[DavidR]

[emoji106]