Strange P380 Problem--Dead Trigger

[Alphonso]

Howdy,

Even though I have been a member here for many years I had to re register and this may look like my first post. It is not.

Today I had a very strange failure with my P380. I have never heard of such a failure with any handgun.

On the third or fourth round of a full mag my trigger went dead. That is, it would move back and forth, but nothing happened. No engagement, no click, no light strike--nothing at all.

To my great surprise there was a new live round fully seated in the chamber and the slide was in full battery.

This happened four time with two different mags.

I've had this pistol for, maybe, ten years and have never had a failure.

Kahr tech support is closed right now.

Anybody ever heard of this and/or have any ideas?

Thanks in advance for the help.

[lee1000]

What did you find when you took it apart?

[Alphonso]

What did you find when you took it apart?

Everything looks normal. I only did a field strip. I can't imagine how:

1. A round fired and was ejected
2. A new round got chambered
3. The trigger did not reset

I'm no gunsmith, but that doesn't even seem possible to me.

[Wlfman13]

Clean your striker channel, and replace your recoil springs. I am on my third set of recoil springs, and am about to order a fourth as a backup because my third set has 800 rounds on it.

Try this. The next time that happens, pull the slide back a quarter inch to 3/8 inch. Don’t eject the live round. Kinda like you are checking to see if the gun has a round chambered. Make sure you push the slide all the way forward after “checking for a live round”. Then, aim, and pull the trigger. You should hear a bang.

If that bang happens after doing a “mini-rack” to reset the trigger and pushing the slide forward into battery, you need new recoil springs. This happened to me, and new recoil springs fixed the problem.

-Wlf

[Alphonso]

Clean your striker channel, and replace your recoil springs. I am on my third set of recoil springs, and am about to order a fourth as a backup because my third set has 800 rounds on it.

Try this. The next time that happens, pull the slide back a quarter inch to 3/8 inch. Don’t eject the live round. Kinda like you are checking to see if the gun has a round chambered. Make sure you push the slide all the way forward after “checking for a live round”. Then, aim, and pull the trigger. You should hear a bang.

If that bang happens after doing a “mini-rack” to reset the trigger and pushing the slide forward into battery, you need new recoil springs. This happened to me, and new recoil springs fixed the problem.

-Wlf


Thanks for that. I will order recoil springs tomorrow.

Can you explain how the gun could cycle (to include chambering a new round) and not reset the trigger? Like I mentioned, I'm not a gunsmith but I just can't imagine how that could happen.

I know the striker channel is clean because I completely dissembled and cleaned the pistol just 30 or so rounds ago. However, I have never changed the recoil springs. I couldn't even guess at the number of rounds I've shot in the last 8 or 10 years since I got the P380.

I've carried this little 380 (when I couldn't carry a "real" gun) for a long long time. I've grown fond of it and can't hardly stand the idea that it failed me this afternoon for the first time ever at Fawn's Butt Gun Range.

[gb6491]

Everything looks normal. I only did a field strip. I can't imagine how:

1. A round fired and was ejected
2. A new round got chambered
3. The trigger did not reset

I'm no gunsmith, but that doesn't even seem possible to me.

Though firing a round is dependent on the trigger releasing the striker, ejecting and chambering a new round generally happen with the trigger disconnected.

I suspect you have a problem with one (or more) of the following:
Trigger bar spring
Trigger bar
slide
cocking cam

Some of these are best checked by removing the side plate of the frame, but before doing that try checking the following:
Remove the slide. Look to see if the trigger bar spring is properly seated in the frame and that the end of it is under the trigger bar.
The spring in the following photos is correctly seated and positioned. The trigger bar in the photos is correctly positioned by the trigger bar spring. In this condition, pulling the trigger bar should move the cocking cam.
https://i.postimg.cc/d3kKmgmv/cc_copy.jpg (https://postimg.cc/rRkbqnPY)
https://i.postimg.cc/SsPBsD0P/tbs_copy.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
If the cocking cam moves, let's look at the disconnector.
https://i.postimg.cc/28LHdhM4/2ilh2kx_copy.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Take a small tool (screwdriver, butterknife, etc.) and press the disconnector down until the top of it is below the level of the frame, then release it. It should immediately return to it's full height.
Now pull and hold the trigger. The disconnector should have moved foward from it's previous position. Now, still holding the trigger to the rear, push the disconnector below the edge of the frame. This should allow the cocking cam to reset (you see and hear this happen) and the disconnector should remain down when you pull your tool away. Now, release the trigger; the disconnector should pop back up in it's original position (see photo). There should be an audible click when this happens. Pulling the trigger should cause the cocking cam to move.

If everything is good to this point, it might be best to remove the slide plate. Let me what you find while doing the above and we will continue.

Regards,
Greg

[Alphonso]

Though firing a round is dependent on the trigger releasing the striker, ejecting and chambering a new round generally happen with the trigger disconnected.

I suspect you have a problem with one (or more) of the following:
Trigger bar spring
Trigger bar
slide
cocking cam

Some of these are best checked by removing the side plate of the frame, but before doing that try checking the following:
Remove the slide. Look to see if the trigger bar spring is properly seated in the frame and that the end of it is under the trigger bar.
The spring in the following photos is correctly seated and positioned. The trigger bar in the photos is correctly positioned by the trigger bar spring. In this condition, pulling the trigger bar should move the cocking cam.
https://i.postimg.cc/d3kKmgmv/cc_copy.jpg (https://postimg.cc/rRkbqnPY)
https://i.postimg.cc/SsPBsD0P/tbs_copy.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
If the cocking cam moves, let's look at the disconnector.
https://i.postimg.cc/28LHdhM4/2ilh2kx_copy.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Take a small tool (screwdriver, butterknife, etc.) and press the disconnector down until the top of it is below the level of the frame, then release it. It should immediately return to it's full height.
Now pull and hold the trigger. The disconnector should have moved foward from it's previous position. Now, still holding the trigger to the rear, push the disconnector below the edge of the frame. This should allow the cocking cam to reset (you see and hear this happen) and the disconnector should remain down when you pull your tool away. Now, release the trigger; the disconnector should pop back up in it's original position (see photo). There should be an audible click when this happens. Pulling the trigger should cause the cocking cam to move.

If everything is good to this point, it might be best to remove the slide plate. Let me what you find while doing the above and we will continue.

Regards,
Greg

Thanks for the lengthy and excellent answer. I followed your steps one by one. I think everything went as it should:

1) The spring is properly seated
2) The cocking cam moves as it should
3) The disconnector pops back up when released
4) The cocking cam resets
5) The disconnector remains down while holding the trigger
6) The disconnector pops back up when releasing the trigger.

Again, thanks for the help. I'd appreciate any ideas about what to look at next. I have had the side plate off of a couple of other Kahrs....

[gb6491]

Thanks for the lengthy and excellent answer. I followed your steps one by one. I think everything went as it should:

1) The spring is properly seated
2) The cocking cam moves as it should
3) The disconnector pops back up when released
4) The cocking cam resets
5) The disconnector remains down while holding the trigger
6) The disconnector pops back up when releasing the trigger.

Again, thanks for the help. I'd appreciate any ideas about what to look at next. I have had the side plate off of a couple of other Kahrs....
One last thing to check before removing the side plate is to see if a magazine is causing any interference with the trigger bar or the trigger bar spring.

Next, I would look at where the slide and disconnecter interface. On the bottom edge of the slide there is a cutout section that rides directly above the disconnecter when the slide is in battery. This allows the disconnecter to rise to it's full height and engage the trigger bar with the cocking cam. Check this cutout area and the disconnecter for any damage/wear that might interfere with a correct interface/operation of the parts.
https://i.postimg.cc/qMSVzdgJ/xf6b6h_copy.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Here's a photo of a slide out of battery that shows the slide cutout. This pistol has a malfunction in that the disconnecter is wedged under the slide. The disconnecter should be riding along the underside of the slide at this point (which would disconnect the trigger bar).
https://i.postimg.cc/dVxTD6yP/Triggerbarwedgedc_copy.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Also check:
the side plate for any indication that the trigger bar might be hanging up on it.
The interface of the trigger bar and cocking cam looking for full engaement
https://i.postimg.cc/wMV6N4yq/xf6b6haaa.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Might as well give everything a good cleaning everything at this point.

If you have found nothing amiss, I'd suggest replacing the trigger bar spring.

Regards,
Greg

[Alphonso]

Thanks for the help. I haven't mentioned about a fairly recent change I made to the P380. I didn't think of it until you mentioned mag interference.

A short while ago I installed the Magguts 6 to 7 +1 kit.

I fired almost 30 rounds since then, with this "dead trigger" problem only showing up at the very end.

I read many posts here about the Magguts kit. None mention a problem like mine.

Wadda you think?

[dustnchips]

If I ever run into this problem I sure hope I can find this post again. What great, clear, and through instructions.

[Alphonso]

Clean your striker channel, and replace your recoil springs. I am on my third set of recoil springs, and am about to order a fourth as a backup because my third set has 800 rounds on it.

Try this. The next time that happens, pull the slide back a quarter inch to 3/8 inch. Don’t eject the live round. Kinda like you are checking to see if the gun has a round chambered. Make sure you push the slide all the way forward after “checking for a live round”. Then, aim, and pull the trigger. You should hear a bang.

If that bang happens after doing a “mini-rack” to reset the trigger and pushing the slide forward into battery, you need new recoil springs. This happened to me, and new recoil springs fixed the problem.

-Wlf

OK, I took the Magguts +1 kit out of the mags and test fired again. Same problem: fire and eject one shell, chamber a new round, "dead trigger".

Your post above was exactly right. After my "dead trigger" failure I pulled the slide back, heard a click when the trigger reset, and was able to fire the gun.

Thanks.

I have an RMA to return the gun to Kahr coming. I may opt to just replace the spring.

[Wlfman13]

Alphonso,

One additional detail I didn’t mention. Given your original post, I didn’t think it mattered. However, you and I have experienced similar issues this month. I recently switched the followers and springs in both of my P380 magazines to the Magguts +1 kit. I immediately started to have “weird” light strikes after firing the first round. This was happening after losing the mag with five rounds, and shooting one. Then, on the next shot (with one in the chamber, and three in the mag), I would experience the lightest of light strikes. No bang. At first, I threw the round downrange as I thought it was a defective round. After the third time (both mags did this), I did a “press check” (I think that term is correct). I racked the slide 3/8” and pushed it forward. The round would fire, as well as the remaining rounds. It only happened with four rounds remaining, regardless of which mag I used, and regardless of how many rounds I initially loaded I to the magazine.

At first, I blamed the problem on the fact that I sprayed Ballistol onto the breech face and striker assembly and spring when cleaning. That had been my first time to ever use Ballistol. After cleaning the striker channel with non-chlorinated brake cleaner, the issue remained. I then blamed the issue on the magguts followers. Then, I remembered that the first sign that I needed recoil springs the last time I had to change them was light strikes. THOSE light strikes were easier to feel and hear. For some reason, the magguts springs made the light strikes lighter this time.

That night, at home, with the gun loaded, I again pulled the slide back a quarter inch to see if the spring was strong enough to push the slide back into battery without the help of any forward momentum. No joy.

I changed the recoil springs, and the “mini rack test” resulted in the slide going easily and quickly back into battery without the help of momentum.

The next three trips to the range have been completely different. It’s like a brand new gun. I now realize what it feels like to be dealing with recoil springs that have gotten “sluggish”.

I’m typing this on a phone, so it feels very long and drawn out. I hope, though, that this post benefits someone. If my description does not provide help, or a solution, then I feel very confident that the excellent information provided by gb6491 will be helpful. I learned a lot just from reading his post, and now feel comfortable tackling the replacement of my trigger bar spring, should the need arise.

-Wlf

[Alphonso]

Alphonso,

One additional detail I didn’t mention. Given your original post, I didn’t think it mattered. However, you and I have experienced similar issues this month. I recently switched the followers and springs in both of my P380 magazines to the Magguts +1 kit. I immediately started to have “weird” light strikes after firing the first round. This was happening after losing the mag with five rounds, and shooting one. Then, on the next shot (with one in the chamber, and three in the mag), I would experience the lightest of light strikes. No bang. At first, I threw the round downrange as I thought it was a defective round. After the third time (both mags did this), I did a “press check” (I think that term is correct). I racked the slide 3/8” and pushed it forward. The round would fire, as well as the remaining rounds. It only happened with four rounds remaining, regardless of which mag I used, and regardless of how many rounds I initially loaded I to the magazine.

At first, I blamed the problem on the fact that I sprayed Ballistol onto the breech face and striker assembly and spring when cleaning. That had been my first time to ever use Ballistol. After cleaning the striker channel with non-chlorinated brake cleaner, the issue remained. I then blamed the issue on the magguts followers. Then, I remembered that the first sign that I needed recoil springs the last time I had to change them was light strikes. THOSE light strikes were easier to feel and hear. For some reason, the magguts springs made the light strikes lighter this time.

That night, at home, with the gun loaded, I again pulled the slide back a quarter inch to see if the spring was strong enough to push the slide back into battery without the help of any forward momentum. No joy.

I changed the recoil springs, and the “mini rack test” resulted in the slide going easily and quickly back into battery without the help of momentum.

The next three trips to the range have been completely different. It’s like a brand new gun. I now realize what it feels like to be dealing with recoil springs that have gotten “sluggish”.

I’m typing this on a phone, so it feels very long and drawn out. I hope, though, that this post benefits someone. If my description does not provide help, or a solution, then I feel very confident that the excellent information provided by gb6491 will be helpful. I learned a lot just from reading his post, and now feel comfortable tackling the replacement of my trigger bar spring, should the need arise.

-Wlf

First off, if you can type a post like that from your phone you are my hero. That would take me a week to type on the phone.

I have had no light strikes. I have had "no strikes" and completely disengaged trigger. Also, my recoil springs return the slide to battery in all cases. No matter how little or how much I pull the slide back the recoils springs put it into full battery.

My problem is clearly failure to reset the trigger. I too at one point thought the problem was Magguts. Nope. Original mags have the same problem.

I have recoil spring coming from Kahr (their customer service has been truly wonderful to me over the years). If the springs don't fix the problem, the whole gun is going home to Kahr for a professional look see.

In the mean time a guy offered me an unfired (except factory test) S&W 380 Bodyguard with the built in laser for $250. Couldn't say no. I'll use it to back up the P380 or sell it for a small profit here in a week or two.

Thanks again for the help.

[lee1000]

How would a worn out recoil spring cause light strikes? I'm just asking because I want to learn something new.

[Wlfman13]

Lee1000,

(Please understand that I’m not a gunsmith, and I may be corrected. If so, I will definitely edit this post.)

The recoil spring is critical to placing “pre-tension” on the striker. It is what holds the slide forward. For that reason, the slide is hard to hold back. When the slide returns to battery, the striker catches on the trigger cam. The trigger cam won’t move forward. Because of that, something has to give. That thing that gives is the striker spring. The striker spring is strong. The recoil spring forces the slide forward, which “pre-cocks” the striker.

When you pull the trigger, the striker is pulled back the rest of the way, and at the end of the trigger travel, the “2nd nodule” on the trigger cam pushes on the rectangular piece, which removes the “barrier” that keeps the striker from hitting the primer cartridge.

if the slide is not fully in battery, then the trigger cam can only pull the striker back a little bit. Also, if the slide is TOO far back, then the trigger cam will only pull the striker back a little bit, AND will let go of the striker before it pushes the rectangular “button”, which allows the striker to hit the primer cartridge. So, you get a really light strike that doesn’t even touch the primer cartridge.

Now, on to a real-life example:
1. Unload your gun
2. Unload your gun again.
3. Remove the slide stop pin.
4. Remove the recoil spring and guide rod.
5. Remove the barrel.
6. Install the slide on the frame. Yep.
7. Lightly... rack the slide slowly. Until it snaps back over the trigger cam.
8. If you’ve never done this, you may now feel like you are in a bind. You can’t remove the slide without pulling the trigger. However, the slide needs to be in he correct spot.
9. Go ahead and pull the trigger with the slide where it is. Feel the sponginess? Let go of the trigger.
10. Now, push the slide forward until the rear of the slide is even with the frame. You will have to “force it”, since you will be working against the striker spring. Normally, the recoil spring does this work for you.
11. When the rear of the slide is pushed forward enough to be even with the rear of the frame, pull the trigger. Do you feel that? It feels like a normal trigger because it is pushing the striker spring back. For some reason, the trigger has no “power” unless the recoil spring pushes the slide forward, after the trigger “resets”.
12. After you pull the trigger, things will feel normal, and you will be able to slide the slide forward, over the trigger cam, like you would normally do just prior to cleaning the gun.

In short, the recoil spring HAS to have enough “oomph” to keep the slide in battery, which also “precocks” the striker, and also places the correct pressure on the trigger system to give it the power to pull the striker the rest of the way back.

If your recoil spring can’t keep the slide forward all the way, it can’t pull the striker back all the way (among other bad side-effects).

I REALLY hope this makes sense. And, I really hope I explained it correctly.

Everyone, PPPlease correct me if I am wrong.

Again, I did this on my phone. I’ll correct spelling and other issues (if needed) after I post this reply.

-Wlf

[lee1000]

Lee1000,

(Please understand that I’m not a gunsmith, and I may be corrected. If so, I will definitely edit this post.)

The recoil spring is critical to placing “pre-tension” on the striker. It is what holds the slide forward. For that reason, the slide is hard to hold back. When the slide returns to battery, the striker catches on the trigger cam. The trigger cam won’t move forward. Because of that, something has to give. That thing that gives is the striker spring. The striker spring is strong. The recoil spring forces the slide forward, which “pre-cocks” the striker.

When you pull the trigger, the striker is pulled back the rest of the way, and at the end of the trigger travel, the “2nd nodule” on the trigger cam pushes on the rectangular piece, which removes the “barrier” that keeps the striker from hitting the primer cartridge.

if the slide is not fully in battery, then the trigger cam can only pull the striker back a little bit. Also, if the slide is TOO far back, then the trigger cam will only pull the striker back a little bit, AND will let go of the striker before it pushes the rectangular “button”, which allows the striker to hit the primer cartridge. So, you get a really light strike that doesn’t even touch the primer cartridge.

Now, on to a real-life example:
1. Unload your gun
2. Unload your gun again.
3. Remove the slide stop pin.
4. Remove the recoil spring and guide rod.
5. Remove the barrel.
6. Install the slide on the frame. Yep.
7. Lightly... rack the slide slowly. Until it snaps back over the trigger cam.
8. If you’ve never done this, you may now feel like you are in a bind. You can’t remove the slide without pulling the trigger. However, the slide needs to be in he correct spot.
9. Go ahead and pull the trigger with the slide where it is. Feel the sponginess? Let go of the trigger.
10. Now, push the slide forward until the rear of the slide is even with the frame. You will have to “force it”, since you will be working against the striker spring. Normally, the recoil spring does this work for you.
11. When the rear of the slide is pushed forward enough to be even with the rear of the frame, pull the trigger. Do you feel that? It feels like a normal trigger because it is pushing the striker spring back. For some reason, the trigger has no “power” unless the recoil spring pushes the slide forward, after the trigger “resets”.
12. After you pull the trigger, things will feel normal, and you will be able to slide the slide forward, over the trigger cam, like you would normally do just prior to cleaning the gun.

In short, the recoil spring HAS to have enough “oomph” to keep the slide in battery, which also “precocks” the striker, and also places the correct pressure on the trigger system to give it the power to pull the striker the rest of the way back.

If your recoil spring can’t keep the slide forward all the way, it can’t pull the striker back all the way (among other bad side-effects).

I REALLY hope this makes sense. And, I really hope I explained it correctly.

Everyone, PPPlease correct me if I am wrong.

Again, I did this on my phone. I’ll correct spelling and other issues (if needed) after I post this reply.

-Wlf

Wow thanks for the explanation. So is the striker spring/trigger pull pulling the slide out of battery?

[Wlfman13]

I’m not sure. That could definitely be the case.

I do know that, in my case, new recoil springs fixed the issue. Which, I guess, is a clear indication that I had asked my recoil spring to perform its duty for way too long.

I guess, in my explanation above, I (in a long-winded way, maybe) explained why a semi-auto striker-fired gun won’t fire if the slide is pushed out of battery, even the tiniest bit.

Last night was when I really figured out/understood how the Kahr trigger could possibly release the striker, but not have the striker contact the primer cartridge.

Also, working through my example, along with the understanding I gained from gb’s post, gave me a clear understanding of how the Kahr trigger is reset when a fired round forces the slide rearward.

-Wlf

[ripley16]

The only instance I've experienced of "dead trigger" in a Kahr occurred when the trigger bar broke. The rearmost piece that actually contacts and moves the cam broke completely off resulting in the trigger doing nothing but going back and forth. There was no off and on, work then not work to it though. The gun was completely useless. Probably not your problem if the gun works sometimes but I thought I'd throw it into the mix for info purposes.

Kahr replaced the trigger bar for no charge but it did take about 9 weeks to turn around IIRC.

[Alphonso]

The only instance I've experienced of "dead trigger" in a Kahr occurred when the trigger bar broke. The rearmost piece that actually contacts and moves the cam broke completely off resulting in the trigger doing nothing but going back and forth. There was no off and on, work then not work to it though. The gun was completely useless. Probably not your problem if the gun works sometimes but I thought I'd throw it into the mix for info purposes.

Kahr replaced the trigger bar for no charge but it did take about 9 weeks to turn around IIRC.

My "dead trigger" is intermittent and, I'm pretty sure, not the result of t broken trigger bar.

Also my recoil springs will move the slide back to full battery no matter how much or how little I pull the slide back.

The recoil springs may be failing somehow while being called on to cycle during firing.

I'm still having trouble understanding how: My pistol can fire and eject a round, feed another, go into FULL battery, and have a dead/unset trigger.

I should get the new springs soon and will test fire and post about results.

I am the OP and I thank all for their help and information...

[gb6491]

....

I'm still having trouble understanding how: My pistol can fire and eject a round, feed another, go into FULL battery, and have a dead/unset trigger.

..
https://i.postimg.cc/T2Lp0rnr/vg_KA-2_E_sub.gif (https://postimages.org/)
Notice as the slide travels to the rear it forces the trigger bar down which disconnects the trigger. This also resets the cocking cam.
As the slide travels forward, it feeds a new round and the striker is stopped by the reset cocking cam. Releasing the trigger allows the trigger bar to move backwards and up to engage the cocking cam. If not broken, I suspect your trigger bar is not returning far enough back or high enough to engage the cocking cam properly.

[Alphonso]

https://i.postimg.cc/T2Lp0rnr/vg_KA-2_E_sub.gif (https://postimages.org/)
Notice as the slide travels to the rear it forces the trigger bar down which disconnects the trigger. This also resets the cocking cam.
As the slide travels forward, it feeds a new round and the striker is stopped by the reset cocking cam. Releasing the trigger allows the trigger bar to move backwards and up to engage the cocking cam. If not broken, I suspect your trigger bar is not returning far enough back or high enough to engage the cocking cam properly.

Thanks. The trigger bar not returning far enough or high enough back seems like a real possibility--although the trigger bar appears to me (a non gunsmith) to be doing what it is supposed to do.

Next move, new springs. If that doesn't fix the problem, I'll either send it to Kahr or disassemble it fully and look closely at every single part for under magnification for problems or wear.

[Alphonso]

I deleted this post because I figured out what I was asking about and didn't seen any need to ad any more to this confusing (to me anyway) thread.

[Alphonso]

New recoil springs just got here. They are much longer and stronger that my used ones. In fact, it took me 15 minutes (of straining and swearing) to get the new springs installed. The used ones just sort of dropped in.

We will see. I'm going out back to Fawn's Butt Gun Range to give them a try in a few hours and will post results.

I still don't understand how worn out recoil spring could cause my dead trigger problem--but there is a whole bunch of stuff in this big wide world that I don't understand.

I am hopeful...

[Bawanna]

Did you have any particular swear words that seemed the most effective?

I too am not on board with the recoil spring effecting your issue but it could be just that little extra bit of push that aligns the planets that make that trigger work.

Sorry I didn't mean to go into Rocket Scientist Jargon. I'll just cross me fingers here and hope you come back with wlfman's the smartest man alive.

On the plus side is sounds like you needed new springs anyhow. I'm also not one to be changing them until I get signs that they are needed. I guess I spread my shooting out amongst enough guns that I don't wear em out of something.

[Alphonso]

Did you have any particular swear words that seemed the most effective?

I too am not on board with the recoil spring effecting your issue but it could be just that little extra bit of push that aligns the planets that make that trigger work.

Sorry I didn't mean to go into Rocket Scientist Jargon. I'll just cross me fingers here and hope you come back with wlfman's the smartest man alive.

On the plus side is sounds like you needed new springs anyhow. I'm also not one to be changing them until I get signs that they are needed. I guess I spread my shooting out amongst enough guns that I don't wear em out of something.

Nope, nada, zero, zip--no good news. Got four mags with original Kahr mag springs to fire. Changed to Magguts +1 kit and had the strange dead trigger thing again on every mag.

Changed back to original Kahr mag springs and the problem persisted on the first or second round of every mag.

This little gem is going back as soon as I can get the RMA re activated.

Should have just sent it in in the first place.

Sigh...

[Bawanna]

I removed a few words related to Justins family tree as they weren't required to get your point across. While not offensive or derogatory they could be construed as such. No harm, no foul, just explanation.

We're (I'm) very protective of Justin, his family tree and his employees.

I'm sad that your issue wasn't resolved with the new springs. Not surprised I guess. Hopefully Kahr will get it fixed up and back quickly.

[Alphonso]

I removed a few words related to Justins family tree as they weren't required to get your point across. While not offensive or derogatory they could be construed as such. No harm, no foul, just explanation.

We're (I'm) very protective of Justin, his family tree and his employees.

I'm sad that your issue wasn't resolved with the new springs. Not surprised I guess. Hopefully Kahr will get it fixed up and back quickly.

You are right, my reference to the family was not necessary. I was just trying to be amusing. It never occurred to me that some of you here might actually know him.

I do not know him, but I've been fond of and positive in public about his pistols for quite some time now.

[Bawanna]

Again no harm no foul. I read it the way you intended.
Others maybe not so much.

Amusing is good, I like amusing.

[Alphonso]

Again no harm no foul. I read it the way you intended.
Others maybe not so much.

Amusing is good, I like amusing.

By the way, the swear word that worked best for seating the new P380 spring was *&^%$#.

You may quote me...

[Bawanna]

I use that one regularly, even here at work.

[Wlfman13]

Aww, man! I really thought new recoil springs might correct the issue, since they have corrected my issue twice.

I hate that it will now take longer to get it fixed than it would have if you had just sent it in with the original RA.

I would love to know what was wrong, once Kahr fixes it, but I don’t expect that they will provide details on what needed to be repaired.

And, just like that, my chance of being the smartest man alive is gone.

-Wlf

[Alphonso]

Aww, man! I really thought new recoil springs might correct the issue, since they have corrected my issue twice.

I hate that it will now take longer to get it fixed than it would have if you had just sent it in with the original RA.

I would love to know what was wrong, once Kahr fixes it, but I don’t expect that they will provide details on what needed to be repaired.

And, just like that, my chance of being the smartest man alive is gone.

-Wlf

Me too, on all counts.

It was a noble effort and I thought a winner though four mags.

You were right about the press check, though. Every time it failed I pulled the slide back just a bit, heard a click as the trigger reset, and was good to go 'till the next failure.

I still can't get my head around this failure. It must be a timing thing where the feeding of a round is accomplished, but the resetting of the trigger is not.

I've stared at the animated graphic above in this thread for a long time.

Again, I can't imagine how that could be...

[Alphonso]

The P380 has left the building and is on it's way back to Kahrville.

Godspeed tiny pistol...

[Redfish]

My thanks as well.
Don

[Alphonso]

The Eagle has landed.

Countdown to repair and return begins.

Tick, tick, tick...

[Alphonso]

The Eagle has landed.

Countdown to repair and return begins.

Tick, tick, tick...

Just got word that my P380 is due back to me via Fedex on the 24th.

I think that is 20 days door to door.

Not too bad. I hope to get a decent report about what they did to fix it.

[Alphonso]

The pistol is home.

Kahr says, and I quote:

Problem reported: "TRIGGER DOES NOT RESET NEW SPEC EJECTOR.."

Action taken: "POLISHED EXTRACTOR, REPLACED TRIGGER BARR, TESTFIRED"


Any of you gunsmith types know if such repairs seem appropriate for the original problem I posted about?

Too rainy to test fire here today. Tomorrow maybe...

[gb6491]

The pistol is home.

Kahr says, and I quote:

Problem reported: "TRIGGER DOES NOT RESET NEW SPEC EJECTOR.."

Action taken: "POLISHED EXTRACTOR, REPLACED TRIGGER BARR, TESTFIRED"


Any of you gunsmith types know if such repairs seem appropriate for the original problem I posted about?

Too rainy to test fire here today. Tomorrow maybe...
It's my "Bubba/kitchentable" opinion that replacing the trigger bar is very appropriate to your original problem.
Polishing the extractor should help with feeding and help ensure that your gun is going completely in to battery (being out of battery can disconnect the trigger).
Regards,
Greg

[Alphonso]

Thanks for the info.

As soon as our 40 days and 40 nights of rain have passed I'll give it a try. I hope I can get the unicorns up the ramp this time...

[Alphonso]

My repaired Kahr P380 worked perfectly yesterday at the Fawn's Butt Rifle range.

I only had about 45 rounds to fire, but they all went boom (especially the one where I forgot to put my ears on. My left ear is still ringing 24 hours later).

Damn...

[gb6491]

Good to read that your P360 is back up to speed :)

[Bobshouse]

Good to read that your P360 is back up to speed :)

It lost a few points for being a PITA? Or is that just a typo?

[gb6491]

It lost a few points for being a PITA? Or is that just a typo?
Typo:o
https://i.postimg.cc/yxz5J3vv/Dunce-Hat-copy.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Bawanna]

Ha ha, where did you find my picture? I thought that was all behind me.

Your mean Bob, I saw it but wasn't gonna raise the red flag. Guess all that time in the corner softened me up.

[Bobshouse]

Your mean Bob, I saw it but wasn't gonna raise the red flag. Guess all that time in the corner softened me up.

Not mean....just stupid....LOL.

[Alphonso]

My repaired Kahr P380 worked perfectly yesterday at the Fawn's Butt Rifle range.

I only had about 45 rounds to fire, but they all went boom (especially the one where I forgot to put my ears on. My left ear is still ringing 24 hours later).

Damn...

I'm quoting myself here. Apparently I spoke too soon. Fired four mags yesterday and had 5 (count 'em five) failures to eject, and one failure to feed.

This little pistol has never had a FTE or FTE before. Kahr says it polished the extractor.

Opinions please on whether such a polishing could cause FTF or FTE in a pistol that never had either before.

[RustyIron]

My P380 has a freakishly tight extractor. It functions satisfactorily, but if it started choking, the extractor is the first thing I would adjust.

[Alphonso]

My P380 has a freakishly tight extractor. It functions satisfactorily, but if it started choking, the extractor is the first thing I would adjust.

Can you please tell me or point me to a thread where I would learn how to adjust an extractor?

Thanks.

I am handy with tools and can follow simple instructions...

[topgun1953]

Can you please tell me or point me to a thread where I would learn how to adjust an extractor?

Thanks.

I am handy with tools and can follow simple instructions...

Sure! The sticky in this particular forum about correcting FTB, the post in this forum titled “CW380 Extractor”, and this one http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?31227-New-cw380-first-shots

[Alphonso]

Sure! The sticky in this particular forum about correcting FTB, the post in this forum titled “CW380 Extractor”, and this one http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?31227-New-cw380-first-shots

Thanks for this. I will study it.

I spoke to Kahr tech support this morning they are going to send me a new extractor.

On close inspection I can tell that someone at Kahr put some sort of abrasive tool on my extractor. It is a little scuffed up, and it looks like it was done freehand.

I don't know why Kahr did this, this little pistol had never had a extraction problem in the past and I did not report it as a problem in my description to Kahr.

I'll try the new extractor first, and if that doesn't work I'll break out the crocus cloth.

In the mean time y'all might want to buy some Remington stock. I expect to bump up their forth quarter profits by buying a bunch of 100 round value packs of .380 at Walmart...

[Alphonso]

The tiny pistol is back in service.

Boy oh boy is the Remington value pack ammo filthy dirty messy stuff...

[DavidR]

So the new extractor did it?

[Alphonso]

So the new extractor did it?

I replaced the extractor and extractor spring. The new spring was a good 10 percent longer than the old one. It also MAY have a slightly larger wire size. My old spring was very old.

Also, the pistol was filthy inside. Really filthy. I last disassembled the slide about 125 rounds ago and gave it a thorough cleaning then.

The Remington Value Pack ammo that I used to test the gun deposited a TON of gunk and filth into the inner workings of the pistol. It is possible that the gunk was the root of all the problems I was having. I didn't know how dirty it was inside when I sent it to Kahr. They certainly didn't clean it before they sent it back.

I don't think I've ever gotten one my pistols so dirty before in the past. No more Remington Value Pack for me...

[Teddy1955]

New member here. I recently purchased a new Kahr P380 and started reading this forum. I just finished reading this thread all the way through and I was very impressed with the knowledge and help that is available on this site as proven by this thread. I was so impressed that I decided I wanted to become a member. Thank you members! If I ever need help I am confident I will be able to find it here!

[flustercuck]

I just bought a p380 and have this exact issue. I knew something was up when I did some dry-fires before shooting it. Basically, if I racked the slide, pulled the trigger, reracked with trigger still held, release/reset trigger, then pull trigger again...nothing. It does this randomly, not every time. Going to inspect it as per gb6491's suggestions.

The other issue I have is random failure to fires. Looking at the primer on the ones that missed, the strike looks way off center and hard to extract. Not sure what that's about but probably extractor related. Used 95gr blazer

[lee1000]

I just bought a p380 and have this exact issue. I knew something was up when I did some dry-fires before shooting it. Basically, if I racked the slide, pulled the trigger, reracked with trigger still held, release/reset trigger, then pull trigger again...nothing. It does this randomly, not every time. Going to inspect it as per gb6491's suggestions.

The other issue I have is random failure to fires. Looking at the primer on the ones that missed, the strike looks way off center and hard to extract. Not sure what that's about but probably extractor related. Used 95gr blazer

Does it do it when you rack it normally and then pull the trigger?

Not sure on the failure to fire issue. Is it New or used? Is the striker channel clean and free of machining burrs?

[flustercuck]

Does it do it when you rack it normally and then pull the trigger?

Not sure on the failure to fire issue. Is it New or used? Is the striker channel clean and free of machining burrs?

No, only when holding the trigger down for a reset. It's band new, haven't inspected the striker channel yet.

[lee1000]

No, only when holding the trigger down for a reset. It's band new, haven't inspected the striker channel yet.

I wouldn't worry about it if it doesn't do it when cycling normally.

I would definitely clean the striker channel and debur the inside of the slide. My PM9 needed it.

[flustercuck]

I wouldn't worry about it if it doesn't do it when cycling normally.
Yeah but this is when manually racking. When firing a round, cycling occurs within a fraction of a second...I would have to be pretty quick on releasing the trigger to avoid this issue...

[lee1000]

Yeah but this is when manually racking. When firing a round, cycling occurs within a fraction of a second...I would have to be pretty quick on releasing the trigger to avoid this issue...

Interesting point, I never thought of that

[flustercuck]

It looks like the magazine disconnect might be the issue (I have a neutered CA p380). With the disconnect engaged, I can see the trigger bar slightly bulging the side panel at the very end of the trigger pull. I'll have to open her up and take a look and possibly remove the disconnect to verify.

EDIT: nevermind...with the slide on, the trigger bar slides down properly so it doesn't end up bulging the side panel. It's almost like the cocking cam is oriented improperly. If I back off the trigger ever-so-slightly, it'll grab hold and cock the striker.

EDIT2: I see what the problem is now. After the striker is 'fired' the cam is not pivoting back like it should when the trigger bar disconnector tab is forced downward. Since it's not pivoting back, it's not grabbing onto the striker to recock it. This might be caused by the CA magazine disconnect bar, because when I drop the mag out (which drops the mag disconnect bar) the cam pivots back properly. Alternatively, if I manually push the trigger bar disconnector tab down, the cam will pop back so the issue could be here as well...

I think I've isolated the issue, so my next step is to inspect the trigger bar/cam interface to see what's going on there...just need a damn torx set :mad:

[Bobshouse]

I think I've isolated the issue, so my next step is to inspect the trigger bar/cam interface to see what's going on there...just need a damn torx set :mad:

Harbor Freight has a decent one that inexpensive...don't ask how I know...I have a P380.

[flustercuck]

Alright, picked up a torx set from harbor freight. I'm going to refer to this cam pivot action as the 'cam reset' from here on out (note this is not the same as the trigger bar reset).

So my suspicions were confirmed that the cam reset is not occurring and therefore not cocking the striker after cycling. Here's the weird part - it works with the inspection plate off. A temporary solution for me is to leave the plate screws loose and see how it performs.

[coltchris]

Tag for info!

[flustercuck]

The other issue I have is random failure to fires. Looking at the primer on the ones that missed, the strike looks way off center and hard to extract. Not sure what that's about but probably extractor related. Used 95gr blazer

Figured out my failure to fire issue - broken striker/firing pin

After dealing with the cam reset issue, I went to the range to test it out. Loaded up a mag, chambered a round, pulled the trigger...nothing. Not even an indentation in the primer (last time it was randomly off center). I'm thinking to myself, great now what. I knew I had to disassemble the slide and inspect the striker and when I did, the head was completely broken off. Mystery solved.

Ordering a LakeLine ultimate striker along with a spare trigger bar and spring just in case. I'm now wondering if these two issues are related to each other (cam reset and failure to fire), but we'll see. Funny thing is, my local gun store had this p380 on sale at a smoking deal that I couldn't pass up. Now I know why...I'll make this thing work though :)

[yqtszhj]

Figured out my failure to fire issue - broken striker/firing pin

After dealing with the cam reset issue, I went to the range to test it out. Loaded up a mag, chambered a round, pulled the trigger...nothing. Not even an indentation in the primer (last time it was randomly off center). I'm thinking to myself, great now what. I knew I had to disassemble the slide and inspect the striker and when I did, the head was completely broken off. Mystery solved.

Ordering a LakeLine ultimate striker along with a spare trigger bar and spring just in case. I'm now wondering if these two issues are related to each other (cam reset and failure to fire), but we'll see. Funny thing is, my local gun store had this p380 on sale at a smoking deal that I couldn't pass up. Now I know why...I'll make this thing work though :)

You are now classified as Kahr Tech Support Extraordinaire. Glad you found it and good job.

[SuperMex]

It looks like the magazine disconnect might be the issue (I have a neutered CA p380). With the disconnect engaged, I can see the trigger bar slightly bulging the side panel at the very end of the trigger pull. I'll have to open her up and take a look and possibly remove the disconnect to verify.

EDIT: nevermind...with the slide on, the trigger bar slides down properly so it doesn't end up bulging the side panel. It's almost like the cocking cam is oriented improperly. If I back off the trigger ever-so-slightly, it'll grab hold and cock the striker.

EDIT2: I see what the problem is now. After the striker is 'fired' the cam is not pivoting back like it should when the trigger bar disconnector tab is forced downward. Since it's not pivoting back, it's not grabbing onto the striker to recock it. This might be caused by the CA magazine disconnect bar, because when I drop the mag out (which drops the mag disconnect bar) the cam pivots back properly. Alternatively, if I manually push the trigger bar disconnector tab down, the cam will pop back so the issue could be here as well...

I think I've isolated the issue, so my next step is to inspect the trigger bar/cam interface to see what's going on there...just need a damn torx set :mad:


I have to push up on the magazines or I get a dead trigger also :-(

[SuperMex]

I had such high hopes for this pistol, way more accurate than my new J frame and old LCP. To bad no where near reliable.

[gb6491]

I have to push up on the magazines or I get a dead trigger also :-(


I had such high hopes for this pistol, way more accurate than my new J frame and old LCP. To bad no where near reliable.
Will you try trouble shooting it and want suggestions to possible causes?