New Kahr cw9 owner needs help

[Redwood]

Hi, I’m a new cw9 owner and new to the forum. I knew about the 200 round break in period before the gun is to be considered fully reliable. Seems a little excessive, but okay, fine. Before firing it I disassembled it and it looked clean except for some excess oil in the slide. No shavings or burrs were noticeable, so I wiped off the excess oil and went to the range and fired about 80 rounds through it and the great majority of them had failure to fully feed. The slide would stop about an inch short of its intended travel and I would have to slap the slide home before I could fire. 50 of the rounds were Perfeca so that could have contributed to the problem. I had never used those before. Can’t recall what the other 30 rounds were.

I disassembled the gun at home and gave it a normal cleaning. The second time at the range I shot 50 rounds of American Eagle and this time about 40-50% of the rounds fed normally - the others required the hand slap to further feed the round. So there was slight improvement. My concern is that I’m over halfway through the break in period and FTFs are way too frequent for a gun I bought for concealed carry. I’ve got a Hi Point C9 and a Phoenix Arms hp22a that combined cost less than my cw9 and those both worked fine with no FTFs right out of the box. I hate to think I’m going to have to return this gun to Kahr for repair but if it doesn’t straighten out soon I’ll have to send it back which is ironic given my experience of my other guns which are considered “cheapo” guns.

Is this a common experience? Do I have a lemon, or am I missing something? Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

[wyntrout]

Is the recoil spring assembled correctly... closed end to the rear against the flange?

Video here RSA re-assembly at about 3:10 and the slide stop spring re-assembly after that:

https://youtu.be/G2cZgVg_SwA

[DavidR]

That many failures to return to battery after that many rounds with several types of ammo tells me something is wrong. Others will chime in with suggestions but I’d be shocked if this problem went away by itself.

[Redwood]

Is the recoil spring assembled correctly... closed end to the rear against the flange?

Video here RSA re-assembly at about 3:10 and the slide stop spring re-assembly after that:

https://youtu.be/G2cZgVg_SwA

wyntrout, yes the recoil spring is installed correctly. However at 4:30 in the video it says the “wire spring” needs to be over the pin hole when inserting the pin. That spring doesn’t extend fully across the pin hole and I can’t tell if it’s over the pin when I push the pin through the frame or not. I never heard that mentioned before. The slide racks normally and the slide catch functions normally. Thanks for the video.

[wyntrout]

I doesn't go all of the way across the hole. The video shows it and the protrusion on the slide lock lever has a shelf that the free end of the spring rests on inside the the frame. The spring pushes down on the protrusion to keep the slide lock lever depressed until the magazine is empty and the follower pushes up, overcoming the slide lock spring and causing the slide lock to engage and hold the slide to the rear. An empty magazine causes the slide lock to rise and hold the slide back. The little spring can cause malfunctions if it is pushed inside or below the protrusion. This can damage the little spring and it can't fulfill its other function of holding the slide lock pin in the frame by riding in the pin's detent. The slide lock can can back out and cause malfunctions.

Your spring should look like the one in the video or this picture:

http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7773&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1337839418

More about his here:

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?17627-Working-folder-for-pictures-from-Kahr-manual

Manual.pdf here: http://www.kahr.com/PDF/kahrmanual.pdf

[Kdf22]

Make sure you have a firm grip on the gun. You may be limpwristing. Here's a video
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka556--WF2o

[Redwood]

Make sure you have a firm grip on the gun. You may be limpwristing. Here's a video
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka556--WF2o

I’m pretty sure that’s not the problem, though the gun has a good kick due to its light weight. I fired another 50 rounds through it yesterday and there was no improvement. It was Federal FMJ. I noticed the the left front corner of the magazine follower is showing wear - perhaps from me having to firmly slap the slide home the last inch. As I research this gun more I find more information about the quirks and problems people have. It seems they either work fine out of the box or you have feeding problems. So quality control is an obvious problem. I was on hold with Kahr yesterday for 10 minutes before getting a recording that they close at 1pm Pacific time... really?

In addition to the cost of 200 rounds before it’s deemed reliable (again... really?) it looks like I’ll have to fork out overnight FedEx charges in hope of getting a good gun. I hate to sound bitter but this is the most expensive gun I have bought and it’s the first one that has disappointed.

Re: Wyntrout’s comment on the slide catch spring, yes it is above the locking pin tab.

[topgun1953]

Not sure why you think you’ll have to pay the shipping. Kahr will likely pay and you should send it to them to fix.

[gb6491]

Redwood,
Some questions and suggestions:
Can you fully cycle the slide by hand with no rounds in the gun? Can you make it hang up when manually working the slide?
Does it ever fail to chamber the first round when loading the gun using the slide stop?
When it does fail to cycle fully, is the case rim up and under the extractor claw?
Do you have more than one magazine? If so, does it FTF using multiple magazines?
Are the failures prone to happen when the magazine is full or at random?
If you pull the barrel and drop a round into it, does the round go in easily and the rim sit flush with the barrel hood?

I know it was mentioned above, but the recoil spring needs to be installed with the "closed" end towards the button/flange on the guide rod.
If you only have one magazine, check the feed lips for any sharpness/burrs/damage.
If possible, please post some photos of the stoppages.

Regards,
Greg

[Redwood]

Redwood,
Some questions and suggestions:
Can you fully cycle the slide by hand with no rounds in the gun? Can you make it hang up when manually working the slide?
Does it ever fail to chamber the first round when loading the gun using the slide stop?
When it does fail to cycle fully, is the case rim up and under the extractor claw?
Do you have more than one magazine? If so, does it FTF using multiple magazines?
Are the failures prone to happen when the magazine is full or at random?
If you pull the barrel and drop a round into it, does the round go in easily and the rim sit flush with the barrel hood?

I know it was mentioned above, but the recoil spring needs to be installed with the "closed" end towards the button/flange on the guide rod.
If you only have one magazine, check the feed lips for any sharpness/burrs/damage.
If possible, please post some photos of the stoppages.

Regards,
Greg

Thanks for your thoughtful questions. I can answer most of them.
Yes I can manually rack the slide with no rounds in the gun no problem. It will not hang up with no rounds in the gun.

Yes it frequently hangs up when I release the slide catch to load the first round. I’ve always used the slide release to load a round per the manual and never slingshot the slide.

No I don’t believe the case rim is up under the extractors claw - not when I’ve looked, but I don’t look ever time, I just pound the slide the last inch or so since it happens so frequently that if I didn’t know better I would think that’s how semi auto pistols operated.

The gun came with only one magazine, that’s all I have.

I most always start with a full magazine. The only pattern I noticed last time was when I get properly fed rounds in sequence they seem to be third and fourth or maybe fourth an fifth rounds in the magazine.

Yes I can load a round manually and it slides easily into the barrel with the rim flush.

Yes the recoil spring has the closed end against the flange on the recoil guide rod.

Re: the magazine I don’t see any burrs or bent lips, although the front left corner of the magazine follower (the side that is lower with the pin in it shows so wear - perhaps from having to slap the slide home.

As far posting a photo of the jam I don’t see a link or button on this posting a reply window to do that. But if it jammed on the first round I could probably take a photo without having to go to the range to fire it to get it to jam when it cycles a new round.

One thought I’ve had is replacing the mag follower without a Lakeline follower after watching a video recommending that as a fix to FTFs. Do you think that would help? I ordered one online, it bugs me that I would need to buy a $20:follower for any additional mags I might buy. I hope these answers give you some clues, and thanks again Greg.

Bernie

[markman]

Check your extractor tension.

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?31227-New-cw380-first-shots

[gb6491]

Redwood,
It's been my experience that the Lakeline follower does improve feeding, but agree with others that the pistol should perform better than what you are seeing with stock magazines.

Give markman's suggestion a read, it's as good as place as any to start and could very well solve your issue.
At least tear down the top end and give the extractor parts (to include the tunnel in the slide) a good cleaning and inspection.

You need a minimum of 30 posts before the photo hosting feature becomes available to you. In the meantime, you can upload photos to an off site host and link them here using BB code. I use https://postimages.org. Once you have uploaded your image there, the site will open another page with links: look for "Hotlink for forums:" copy that and paste it here.
If that doesn't work for you, PM me and I'll give you an email address to send them to and I'll upload them for you.

Regards,
Greg

[Redwood]

Called Kahr customer service yesterday and they were supportive and offered to send a prepaid shipping label. It hadn’t arrived by this morning so I called again and they emailed it shortly thereafter. So the gun is on its way across the country and I hope to have it back in what... two weeks? (CA to MA and back on two day FedEx - at least on the way east.)

I’ll report back on how long it took and how it does at the range. I sure hope when it returns it is as dependable as a couple guns I have that cost half as much! Thanks for all the suggestions so far.

[Redwood]

I got the gun back. Turn around time was 14 days which was good since it had to make a round trip from CA to PA. The work sheet described the problem as “ FTRB P2 1 K820”. My guess is that translates to “failure to return to bore (or breech) p2 (2 parts?) and 1 magazine (K820). Action taken was described as “Polished feed ramp, test fired ok.”

I’ll take it to the range next week and fire a few magazines through it and report back. I did load a magazine and the round fed properly when the slide catch was released. I jacked/ slingshot the slide and the remaining rounds all fed and ejected properly. So far so good but firing the gun will be the real test. I bought a Lakeline magazine follower which I’ll switch in if I still have problems. Stay tuned.

[Armybrat]

Hope they fixed it properly. Good luck.

[Mike_usn_ret]

14 day turnaround...that is great. Hope that is the norm because that means my CW380 should be back soon.

[Redwood]

I recalculated and it was 16 days but still good. I followed up by phone after a week and I was told it was in cue to be seen the next day. Two work days days later it was shipped and two days later I received it back.

[Blairsville1946]

CW9 is hard to load no matter how you try, so if you are really carrying it for self defense always carry a extra mag and plan on reloading the extra mag after your 5th shot. That way you don't have to either sling the slide or hope it locks back after the last shot. Dave

[Redwood]

Took the CW9 to the range yesterday to see how it worked after getting it back from Kahr. Ran 25 rounds of WWB through it flawlessly, using the slide release to load the first round every time. As this was that first time I was ever able to fire a full magazine through it with no FTFs, I was very happy. I started with the Winchester ammo because I had good experience with another 9m. Next I shot about 25 rounds from a box of Perfecta I had lying around. I figured if that fired flawlessly I was home free and could carry it. Not so fortunate this time. The first round of each full magazine did not fully chamber and the slide had to be slapped home with the palm of my hand. (I only have one magazine so the difference in function isn’t that). However, the remaining rounds all fed properly as I recall. So much improved - but not ready for prime time.

Next step is to change out the mag follower with a Lakeline follower I bought before I decided to return the pistol. Based on the reviews that should work. I’ll shoot the remaining rounds of Perfecta after the upgrade and report back. At least I know it works well with WWB ammo. There’s a short YouTube video where a guy with a CW9 and Lakeline follower slingshots the slide and actually rides the slide home and the rounds feed smoothly.

[DavidR]

I know Perfecta ammo won’t run in Kahr’s 380 pistols because it’s specs are a little different than most 380 ammo. I’m not sure if that’s an issue with 9mm.

[Bawanna]

I'd guess the Perfecta is a bit long for the chamber. Take it out of the equation and your probably good.

[Blairsville1946]

my cw9 has shot anything I tried, shoots great, but loading is another storey. Dave

[Redwood]

Went to the range for the second time after getting the gun back and for the first time with the Lakeline magazine follower installed. I had about one magazine worth of the remaining Perfecta and the first round didn’t fully chamber when the slide catch was released. I took a photo but this site doesn’t make it convenient to post. The remaining rounds chambered fine. I then shot about 25 rounds of WWB and they all fed properly. Obviously the Perfecta is a problem and will be avoided. Since I installed the Lakeline follower I can now rack the slide like a normal gun after inserting a loaded magazine. I’ve got some Federal ammo I’ll run through it next time to see if that feeds flawlessly. The combination of shooting about 300 rounds, sending it back for service, and changing the mag follower has made it almost what I expected when I bought it.