Compare K40 to K9?

[rx7sig]

All,

When I was deciding whether to purchase a K9 or K40 a few months ago, I ultimately decided on a K9 primarily because it is the original Kahr design (and therefore very "mature"), and it holds one more round (7 + 1 vs. 6 + 1). Both the K9 and the K40 enjoy stellar reputations, though, I think.

I've been extremely pleased with my K9: It carries and conceals well, and it is effortless to shoot and accurate. I shoot it a lot, mostly 124 gr. +P self-defense ammo. (I bought my K9 new from Bud's, sight unseen, having never seen any Kahr in the flesh.)

Still, I'm thinking that the K40 just might be the better Kahr for me for CC self-defense purposes, and I am contemplating purchasing one. The two pistols have comparable dimensions, and I am thinking that the more potent 165 gr. .40 S&W round will shoot almost as effortlessly through the 27 oz. K40 as the 9mm Luger +P round shoots through my 25 oz. K9.

Can someone who has lived with both pistols share his/her impressions? Compare the two experiences? What was the order of your purchases (i.e., which did you acquire first)? Am I likely to I suffer buyer's remorse if I purchase the K40? (My K9 isn't going away. Ever!)

TIA,

rx7sig

[Bawanna]

I got and still have a K40 first. Have since shot a couple K9's and now have one of my own. I much prefer the 9 although I'm a devout 45 fan and carry my PM45 over either.
While not uncomfortable I didn't like the muzzle flip of the 40. I had mine magnaported in hopes it would help and it did to a point but not enough, just too much flip for any kind of follow up shot.

For some it doesn't bother them at all and they love them. I can shoot mine all day but it's not in the rotation for carry.

I've never shot a PM40 but I gotta believe it's got a ton of flip to it being so much lighter.

[Old No7]

While not uncomfortable I didn't like the muzzle flip of the 40.

Amen to that.

After my son-in-law bought my PM9, I got a Kahr P40 Covert instead -- opting for the larger bullet.

Yup, got that -- but WOW, I also got more muzzle flip too. It was way more SNAPPY!

I recall seeing videos online where a guy shot similar Kahr models in 9mm, 45acp and 40 with a backdrop that had X/Y lines on it, like large graph paper. The 40 had much more "flip" than the 45, by half as much; but it was easily 2X the 9. So I got a P9 Covert instead. To me, the controlability, the extra capacity and faster second shot (plus the better 9mm ammo that's widely available today) made me choose the 9mm over the .40.

I'd suggest you RENT BEFORE BUYING to see if you really want -- and can handle -- a .40 Kahr.

Yes, it is more potent -- but on BOTH ends though!

Good luck.

Old No7

[rx7sig]

Bawanna and Old No7,

Thank you both for your impressions. My M11-A1 (Al + SS) shoots .40 S&W so well, that I was thinking that the all-SS K40 would too. (I had heard already that the P40 was way snappy.) Alas, there doesn't seem to be a K40 around here that I can try.

Thanks,

rx7sig

[renothecat]

I'm probably in the minority on this but I love the .40S&W round. I purchased my K40 and MK40 before I purchased the K9. I shoot the K40 a ton and do not find it to be flippy. Same for the MK40. My EDC is the PM40. I expected it to be super flippy and tough to control but it isn't. I have no issues with recoil and I do not notice much muzzle flip. The trigger on my K9 is lighter than the K40. Bottom line is if you prefer the 9mm round in general, then I'd say to go with the K9. If you like .40S&W like I do, then stick with the K40. Or just buy them all and have fun!



All,

When I was deciding whether to purchase a K9 or K40 a few months ago, I ultimately decided on a K9 primarily because it is the original Kahr design (and therefore very "mature"), and it holds one more round (7 + 1 vs. 6 + 1). Both the K9 and the K40 enjoy stellar reputations, though, I think.

I've been extremely pleased with my K9: It carries and conceals well, and it is effortless to shoot and accurate. I shoot it a lot, mostly 124 gr. +P self-defense ammo. (I bought my K9 new from Bud's, sight unseen, having never seen any Kahr in the flesh.)

Still, I'm thinking that the K40 just might be the better Kahr for me for CC self-defense purposes, and I am contemplating purchasing one. The two pistols have comparable dimensions, and I am thinking that the more potent 165 gr. .40 S&W round will shoot almost as effortlessly through the 27 oz. K40 as the 9mm Luger +P round shoots through my 25 oz. K9.

Can someone who has lived with both pistols share his/her impressions? Compare the two experiences? What was the order of your purchases (i.e., which did you acquire first)? Am I likely to I suffer buyer's remorse if I purchase the K40? (My K9 isn't going away. Ever!)

TIA,

rx7sig

[Bawanna]

One benefit to the 40 and I have nothing against the 40 in larger guns is when things are bad, (think government) and all the ammo dries up, there's usually still lots of 40 on the shelves.
I know guys that have 40's for just that reason alone.
Probably one reason I still have mine. It was my first Kahr also so I guess it deserves to stay with me till they nail the lid shut.

[berettabone]

I also choose .40 cal. over any other caliber. Common sense would tell you that if you're looking for a target firearm, .40 might not be your first choice. If your talking about defending your life, there's nothing better. If your a head shot artist, then by all means get a nine, or a .380 or .22. If you want to put someone down seriously, go with .40. Someone else said it here...……..if you start at the belt buckle, the gun will automatically go up. I guarantee, you will hit them rapid fire with every shot. Too many people wanting to walk the shot down to the target with minimal practice involved. I will say it once more...……...bigger bullet, bigger hole. The FBI stopped using .40, but that's because most of them can't hit anything with a handful of rice. With practice, you can overcome any flip involved. No practice and your whining is moot. A .45 flips more than a 9mm and I don't see any complaining about that??????? Need to put things in perspective.:p

[markman]

While I personally have nothing against the .40 as I have had many in the past, .40 vs .355 is about a .045 bigger hole. The better of the rounds in both calibers penetrate & expand to pretty close the same.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/


I will say it once more...……...bigger bullet, bigger hole.

[berettabone]

While I personally have nothing against the .40 as I have had many in the past, .40 vs .355 is about a .045 bigger hole. The better of the rounds in both calibers penetrate & expand to pretty close the same.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/ I looked at the results for the ammo that I use...…...HST 147 9mm...…...HST 180 .40 cal...………………………………………...there is a penetration difference of 3.3 " between the calibers. Also a diameter expansion difference from .61 for 9mm vs .72 for .40 cal. Both going at roughly the same speed. Looks like a substantial difference to me. I will say it once more.....bigger bullet, bigger hole, and deeper hole, and at the same speed, more knock down power.

[markman]

Federal 150 gr HST 17.3 - .71
Winchester 147 gr RT 16.5 - .74

Both well within the FBI 12-18 inch penetration range

.71 < .72
.72 < .74

I also believe shot placement to be more beneficial than a few hundreds of an inch of bullet diameter.

[berettabone]

Placement is important but let's be honest here. Gel tests really don't mean much to me. Not real world. I hate to say it, but there is a real reason why gangbangers choose to carry larger calibers than 9mm. They see real world results. Look at the Civil War...……...large, slow pieces of lead caused more horrific injuries and carnage than modern war weapons. If all you're concerned with is penetration, you should carry a .380. 102 gr. Golden Sabers have 21" of penetration. Maybe you should just be honest with yourself and admit you can't shoot anything larger than 9mm accurately. It's ok, many can't. That's why those that can, do, and if they can't, they go to the gel tests. The FBI can hit those...………………………...:p

[markman]

Gel tests really don't mean much to me.
OK, I can respect that. I believe in ballistic gell for comparing different rounds, but I also believe it's not the end all in seeking the best possible round for self defense. I use it to compare known reliable rounds on the street to unknown rounds.


but there is a real reason why gangbangers choose to carry larger calibers than 9mm.
I'm not really sure were you get that info. Is that real world experience or just gun shop talk. I have had contact with with very many real life "gang bangers" and the vast majority gravitate towards high capacity magazines for there drive by spray and pray style of shooting. In the article I've linked below "The weapons of choice for gangs today are 9MM semiautomatic handguns, followed by .40 caliber and .45 caliber semiautomatics, says Thomas Ahern, an ATF senior agent based in Chicago."

https://www.thetrace.org/2016/01/chicago-crime-guns-chart/


If all you're concerned with is penetration, you should carry a .380. 102 gr. Golden Sabers have 21" of penetration.
I don't recall saying that all I'm concerned with is penetration. I believe in shot placement + penetration + expansion. Take any one out of the equation, it will definitely effect your stopping power.

[markman]

Maybe you should just be honest with yourself and admit you can't shoot anything larger than 9mm accurately.
That's a pretty bold statement for someone who doesn't know me. I have owned pistols in 45, 44 mag, 40, 357, 38 SP, 9mm, 380, 32 H&R Mag, 32 ACP & 22. I believe I can shoot them all with about the same accuracy, except for the 22, which is a target pistol. If all your concerned with is a big hole, why not carry a .45 ACP, like I have in the past. Maybe it's because you can't shoot anything larger than a 40 accurately. I personally choose the 9mm for capacity, nothing else. I am one to believe with modern ammo, there is not that much difference with stopping power. There are no magic bullets in any pistol caliber. This has been posted here before.

https://www.policemag.com/341954/9mm-vs-40-caliber (https://www.policemag.com/341954/9mm-vs-40-caliber)


Until then, shot placement with any commercially available ammunition will offer you the best chance of maximizing your duty ammunition's stopping power.

https://www.policemag.com/340890/stopping-power-myths-legends-and-realities

[berettabone]

I don't carry a .45 because .40 makes a big enough hole for me. I assume that if you believe in gel tests for accuracy, then you need to come back to reality. If this has been posted before, then don't read it. If you don't want replies, then don't come on here and talk about stupid gel tests. Come back to real life and reality. People who need lots of capacity must have accuracy issues. How many firefights do you hear about?????? Bold statements come from people who believe in gel tests for their info. Let me know the next time you get in a shootout with a gel block. You keep on believing. I believe in info that comes out of Chicago like I believe the last Potus. I live in gang banger heaven, so I know what they use. 9mm are more popular, that's why many use them, but if they can get something larger, they do. I'm not the only member who chooses to carry something larger than 9mm. Why don't you ask them why they choose size over capacity. If most ammo is equal, why would they choose a larger caliber????? Already told you. The Civil War proves my point. The LE in my area, and sheriffs choose larger calibers than 9mm. Wonder why?????? Many people choose 9mm over 38 special because they think that 9mm is more powerful a round. Those in the know, realize that a 38 special bullet being .002" larger than a 9mm at speeds equal to 9mm makes a bigger hole. It's not rocket science. Unless you rely on gel tests.:rolleyes:

[berettabone]

I'll end my part of the converse with this. I'll let you answer this question to yourself. When you go out target shooting, the holes in the paper become larger as you go up in caliber. .22's make little holes, and .45's make big holes. Noticeable differences in size as you go up. Why do you think that is?????????????

[Bawanna]

Deep breath and a group hug needed here.

I subscribe to the each his own school of thought myself. If something works for you it's a perfect fit.

[markman]

I assume that if you believe in gel tests for accuracy
I don't believe in gel tests for accuracy. Gel tests are for comparing different rounds, targets are for accuracy.

If you don't want replies, then don't come on here and talk about stupid gel tests
I don't mind replies, I believe in constructive debates. I also said I believe it's not the end all in seeking the best possible round for self defense.You should read each sentence carefully before you get so worked up. I usually choose my ammo from actual street results.

People who need lots of capacity must have accuracy issues.
It's sad you actually believe that. I would bet I'm not the only here who went from a 45 to a 40 to a high capacity 9mm. I personally didn't do it for accuracy, my reason was capacity. You're stuck on some kind of accuracy thing. If you carry a big bore with a reload, isn't that carrying with more capacity?

How many firefights do you hear about??????
I imagine about the same as anyone here.

Bold statements come from people who believe in gel tests for their info
As I mentioned above it's only part of the equation.(See above)

I believe in info that comes out of Chicago like I believe the last Potus
I never voted for that POS. That info is from the ATF, not some Chicago hack.

9mm are more popular, that's why many use them, but if they can get something larger, they do.
I don't believe that to be true. People I talk to and things I read say otherwise.

I'm not the only member who chooses to carry something larger than 9mm.
Everyone should carry what they are comfortable with.

Why don't you ask them why they choose size over capacity
The majority of the people I know that carry large bores carry 1 or 2 extra mags. More capacity?

If most ammo is equal, why would they choose a larger caliber?????
I imagine because that's what they are comfortable with.

The Civil War proves my point.
I'm not sure that proves a point, that was non expanding ammo.

The LE in my area, and sheriffs choose larger calibers than 9mm. Wonder why??????
Like above, I'd imagine that's what they're comfortable with. I'm actually glad they have a choice, not all Agencies give you a choice.

Unless you rely on gel tests.
There are many who get their info about expansion from recovered bullets from actual people. I guess your not familiar with people like Evan Marshall.
When you go out target shooting, the holes in the paper become larger as you go up in caliber. .22's make little holes, and .45's make big holes. Noticeable differences in size as you go up. Why do you think that is?????????????
Because expanding rounds don't expand in paper. Why does a 38 wadcutter make a bigger hole than a 38 RN in paper, theyre both the same diameter.

[rx7sig]

I purchased my K40 and MK40 before I purchased the K9. I shoot the K40 a ton and do not find it to be flippy. Same for the MK40. My EDC is the PM40. I expected it to be super flippy and tough to control but it isn't. I have no issues with recoil and I do not notice much muzzle flip. The trigger on my K9 is lighter than the K40. Bottom line is if you prefer the 9mm round in general, then I'd say to go with the K9. If you like .40S&W like I do, then stick with the K40.

Thanks for your impression, @renothecat.

rx7sig

[berettabone]

[QUOTE=markman;405727]That's a pretty bold statement for someone who doesn't know me. I have owned pistols in 45, 44 mag, 40, 357, 38 SP, 9mm, 380, 32 H&R Mag, 32 ACP & 22. I believe I can shoot them all with about the same accuracy, except for the 22, which is a target pistol. If all your concerned with is a big hole, why not carry a .45 ACP, like I have in the past. Maybe it's because you can't shoot anything larger than a 40 accurately. I personally choose the 9mm for capacity, nothing else. I am one to believe with modern ammo, there is not that much difference with stopping power. There are no magic bullets in any pistol caliber. This has been posted here before.

(https://www.policemag.com/341954/9mm-vs-40-caliber) " I choose the 9mm for capacity, nothing else." From your replies, that's understandable. Another pray and spray???????????????:) No Draco, AK????? Glock 19 with a 30 rd. mag????? Just imagine if those big, slow shots during the Civil War did expand. Your explanation on why bullets make larger holes in paper works with different ammo, but what about the same ammo??? I shoot HST's in 9mm and .40. Why does the .40 leave a bigger hole???? Ever look at wound channel results???? .40 is definitely larger than 9mm. That's from your gel tests. Also leave way larger holes on the way out, if you use that kind of ammo. They/you can argue the point till the cows come home. I won't change your mind and you won't change mine. I will continue to say, bigger bullet, bigger hole. If this wasn't the case, everyone would carry 9mm and leave the big boys at home. Then again, some of us just choose 9mm for capacity, nothing else.

[Bawanna]

Nobody needs to change anybody's mind here and I'm thinking the conversation is deteriorating to the point where I see no harmonious outcome nor any need to continue.
Really don't understand why this couldn't be discussed a whole lot more civilly.

Lets see if I remember how to close a thread. Been a long time.

Carry on.