"War" Stories

[wyntrout]

I thought that I would start a thread for this. Wynn :)

My outfit monitored the North's tactical air and GCI for activity and gave MIG and SAM warnings to you guys... Combat Apple(RC-135) and Commando Lance(RC-130)... Mig Red... check your six! Mig on your butt or SAM Red ...missiles in the air! Chaff, flares, Electronic Counter Measures (ECM jamming), and maneuver!
I was waiting out on the ramp for our guys to land and an F-8 took the practice barrier there at Danang about 100 yards away. Pretty quickly, there was an EOD truck and guys picking up long cylindrical things and putting them in the truck... those Zuni rockets... they didn't stay in the tubes!
That night or soon after, we heard what we thought was incoming and the siren went off. After a little while we asked the guy in the MG tower above us what the heck? He said an F-8 had taken the barrier and the rockets had come out of the tubes and detonated! I really missed out on being in the wrong place at the wrong time SEVERAL times during Tet. One night my parking/waiting area was bracketed by rockets and/or mortars and they hit the large bladder POL behind and close to where I would have been parked... I was just leaving the tent area to go pick up a crew when the attack started and I stopped the bus and jumped into our bunker. Later I went over and that POL was burning with flames several hundred feet into the air. Lucky several times.
Sorry... off topic and rambling again.
Wynn:rolleyes:

[jlottmc]

I had a few encounters in Bosnia. Not a friendly place, and I'd much rather talk about my trip to Norway. That was pure comedy looking back. I do remember one night in Bosnia that the fact that I'm a country boy probably saved our butts from some incoming pot shots. Our HUMVEE had broken down (one of several times), I was quite insistent that we make a camp site that was hidden, but still close enough to see the HUMVEE. All night long we kept hearing pings and such. We looked the next morning and that rig had many holes in it. As a junior Lance Corporal, I really had no place to argue with a Corporal and a Sergeant, but thankfully they saw my wisdom a couple of minutes after we got out of the truck.

[O'Dell]

I thought that I would start a thread for this. Wynn :)

My outfit monitored the North's tactical air and GCI for activity and gave MIG and SAM warnings to you guys... Combat Apple(RC-135) and Commando Lance(RC-130)... Mig Red... check your six! Mig on your butt or SAM Red ...missiles in the air! Chaff, flares, Electronic Counter Measures (ECM jamming), and maneuver!
I was waiting out on the ramp for our guys to land and an F-8 took the practice barrier there at Danang about 100 yards away. Pretty quickly, there was an EOD truck and guys picking up long cylindrical things and putting them in the truck... those Zuni rockets... they didn't stay in the tubes!
That night or soon after, we heard what we thought was incoming and the siren went off. After a little while we asked the guy in the MG tower above us what the heck? He said an F-8 had taken the barrier and the rockets had come out of the tubes and detonated! I really missed out on being in the wrong place at the wrong time SEVERAL times during Tet. One night my parking/waiting area was bracketed by rockets and/or mortars and they hit the large bladder POL behind and close to where I would have been parked... I was just leaving the tent area to go pick up a crew when the attack started and I stopped the bus and jumped into our bunker. Later I went over and that POL was burning with flames several hundred feet into the air. Lucky several times.
Sorry... off topic and rambling again.
Wynn:rolleyes:

Sounds like you had it a bit rougher on the ground than I did at 20,000 feet. Our job was to protect the attack birds from the MIG's. We were all chomping at the bit to "get the MIG's", but unfortunately, they were reluctant to come up and play if we were in the air, especially after Tet, when the Reds got hit pretty hard. If they did come up, they would make one pass at the attack jets, and then run for home, before we could engage. The restrictive ROE's prevented us from chasing them because we couldn't fly within 25 klicks of their bases. We got most of our early warning from EC-121's flying over the Gulf east of Hai-Phong, call sign "Red Crown".

I did have one spot of excitement on one mission. Some idiot decided to launch a SAM at my wingman and I. He called the launch and then got out of Dodge leaving me alone nose to nose with a SA-2. I went zone 5 and pulled vertical. The missile couldn't follow the maneuver and detonated behind me, putting a lot of holes in the aft end of my jet. I lost the starboard engine, most of my hydraulics, and my back seater was slumped over and not answering the intercom. I badly wanted that concrete at Danang, but didn't have the gas to make it, and my fuel probe wouldn't deploy, so I had to go back to the boat. I did manage to blow down the gear, but could only get 1/2 flaps. I flew final on re-heat on my good engine, but made it down in more or less one piece.

[wyntrout]

Dang! I think dodging SAMs is rougher. I hope your GIB was okay.
The EC-121's may have been our guys TDY to U Tapao or Korat. They flew in the Connies. I wanted to do that, but I would have had to re-enlist. I wanted to get back to the States and go to college, which I did on the GI Bill... starting at $105 a month in late '68/early '69. Minimum wage was $1.25 an hour then and my ciggies went from $1.05 a carton at the commissary to $3.25 at a discount store. I think my tuition was about $145 a quarter at USM in Hattiesburg, MS, and textbooks were free, except for my language books. I finally quit smoking when I was trying to "taper off" and I was essentially just buying them and carrying them for one of my buddies.
When I left SEA, I was making $500 a month with flight pay, combat pay, and no taxes... which was pretty good money then, not counting free housing, meals, and medical care, which was included.

jlottmc, any vehicle was always a magnet for bullets and you probably saved some butts there from getting the holes in them. I'll bet you didn't have any smokey, smelly campfire, either. :) It helps to be a country boy instead of a city boy, sometimes.
Total rookies probably would have tried to sleep in the HumVee!:eek:

Wynn

[wyntrout]

O'Dell, I guess you were an Aardvark flying F-4's then? We saw lots of Marine F-4's at Danang. I have some 8mm movies that I ought to get put on DVD's, but I'm too cheap. The TDY after Tet, I had a movie camera and a Minolta SRT-101 with me in July/August '68... my last before separation in August. I was at Cam Rahn and then back to Danang. I had more fun over there than on Okinawa with too many bosses. I came back from TDY and had to borrow $5 from a buddy because my pay records were already sent to Travis AFB. That sure pissed me off... no money for last minute purchases... or to buy anything!
Wynn:)

[OldLincoln]

I feel for you guys in the action. I was crew chief on a KC-135 at Clark. Other than the rats and the Negrito natives that appeared out of the elephant grass every morning we didn't have threats. My group was in an old Section 8 ward and they just pulled the cell doors off and stuffed us in. The perimeter road was about 10' from the hut.

I was there in Jan 65, after the Gulf of Tonkin in October and before Johnson fessed up to America that we were there. They had a few B-57's there that would usually return full of holes or not at all. We didn't know if they landed in the South or weren't coming back. I asked to fly a mission with my crew but they would not let me.

I felt bad and still do that I had it easy when so many others were eating dirt. My hut was close to the base hospital and they were flying in wounded all the time. That made it worse, but I did get to come home so it ended well for me.

[wyntrout]

I was at the Presidio of Monterey studying Arabic then... what a waste. I wish it had been Rooski or something that I actually wound up using. The short course in Vietnamese didn't help me much with the "Southerners"... sounded like a totally different language, but that's true for almost any language.:)

I saw the Canberras at Danang and just missed one crashing into the hill west of the base... battle damage I guess. I heard the explosion and saw the fireball, though.

I never made it to the Philipines, either, though I did "date" a girl from there on Okinawa.:D

On Okinawa, right near my "Dorm" was a pill box from WWII and I found a rusty GI helmet in it. We had lots of Mongooses, but I never saw any loose Habus (the local "cobra" equivalent) or rats.

At Danang, our contingent stayed in tent city on the SE end of the base next to the two chainlink fences on the outer perimeter. We had the "MASH-type" tents with wooden floors and the "command hut" I was in had a tin roof where the others were canvas. The sides were plywood for about 3 feet up and then screened. We still had mosquitoes and had to take quinine tablets daily. About every five to six tents or so there would be a bunker... which came in handy quite a few times. We figured this area was about the safest from incoming ordnance aimed at the planes on the flightline. That was arguable, though, because there was an F-4 engine about 25 yards away, lying between the two fences. It had been blown there in a July '67 attack when the VC hit the ammo dump. I'm glad to have missed that one. I first got there in September '67 when I saw the first round of my first rocket attack strike outside the fences about 100 yards or so away. We jumped into the bunker behind us after quickly figuring out it was incoming, not celebratory fireworks.
We had incoming small arms fire during that first Tet morning, (and the day before, after we had just arrived to start our TDY), but I think it was directed at the Sandy/A1E (WWII prop plane) firing on the massed NVA/VC or whatever fleeing from our protective Marines. The Sandy shook us all up when we had just gotten out of the bunkers and were lying down in our racks at first light, when he started firing passes outbound from over the base with his 20mm cannons. We could see those guys running across a field. The Sandy then dropped bombs on them which we could see falling, landing, and exploding. The shock wave was a few seconds later and impressive.
Then helicopter gunships pounded them with rockets. Then a Spooky/AC-47 gunship hosed them down into the dark which was real pretty at night... kind of like a water hose of fire... every 5th or 7th round being a tracer with a firing rate of about 18K per minute for three mini-gatling guns. That was definitely my most "fun" night and day, and all I had was a pocket-sized 16mm Minolta "spy" camera which was pretty useless for what I saw. The photos were just barely larger than a business card and most stuck together and were ruined over the years. This was the real action-packed combat that I "saw", when I talk about having "seen" combat.:D
Oh, I was one of the most heavily armed guys in the area with my S&W model 15 on my hip (NCO flight issue) and an M-16 with 7 magazines. My Project officer signed for and brought me that M-16 and ammo on Tet evening, saying S-2(G-2 ?) said we were going to be hit that night. I had never fired one of those but figured I could do okay with it. I fired the M1 Carbine in basic training... with no ear protection!:eek:
Wynn

[O'Dell]

Hi Guys. Yeah Wynn, my RIO was OK. A piece of metal entered the rear cockpit and split open the back of his helmet. He woke up in sickbay with a concussion and a headache, and wondered what all the excitement was about. He slept through the whole thing.

I still think you guys on the ground had it tougher. You had to face rockets, mortars, and little people with automatic weapons. All I had to worry about were MIG's, the occasional SAM, and triple A if I chased somebody down in the weeds.

Compared to me you were well armed, Wynn. The only gun I had was the 9mm Hi-Power in my shoulder holster. That wasn't very useful against aircraft. The AIM 7's and AIM 9's we had back then weren't all that great. We would ripple fire two, and hope one would track, but usually not. That's why they called the Sparrow the "Great White Hope".

I was also qualified on the A-4 Skyhawk, but not for combat. I used to volunteer to fly them on weather recs and any other mission that would give me some hours in them. They were a real stick and rudder jet and a blast to fly. They also has two real honest to GOD cannon in the wing roots, and when I brought one back aboard, the mags were always empty.

Speaking of cannon and stick and rudder jets, I always wished that I had chosen the F-8 instead of the F-4. They could carry four Sidewinders [for all the good that would do], but also had four MK 12 cannon in the nose. I know that they could jam if fired pulling G's, but I really longed for those guns. They were true "gun fighters" and were more agile than the Phantom II, if not as fast. I once found myself head to head with a MIG 19, and all I could do was jink and try to avoid the tracer streams. Of course, I would have been on one of the older, smaller boats with the F-8. Also with the F-4, if you REALLY got into trouble, there's something to be said for exiting the area at Mach 2+.

I also miss buying Pall Mall reds at the ship's store for ninety cents a carton, and I do still smoke. I pay $55 a carton at Quik Trip.

[wyntrout]

Didn't you have that add-on gun package... the 20mm Gatling? I know early Phantoms didn't have that built in, because the days of dogfighting with guns were over... so they thought... until you guys saw how unreliable the missiles were, AND when you're on someone's butt after all that work getting there, it's nice to have a close-fighting weapon.:)
Man, your RIO was sure lucky... and you, too, to get back to the carrier... and land!
I'll bet your RIO was real thankful for that, too.
Wynn:D

[O'Dell]

Didn't you have that add-on gun package... the 20mm Gatling? I know early Phantoms didn't have that built in, because the days of dogfighting with guns were over... so they thought... until you guys saw how unreliable the missiles were, AND when you're on someone's butt after all that work getting there, it's nice to have a close-fighting weapon.:)
Man, your RIO was sure lucky... and you, too, to get back to the carrier... and land!
I'll bet your RIO was real thankful for that, too.
Wynn:D

The Navy and Marines flew the F-4B and later the F-4J. Neither had an internal gun, and the normal missile loadout was 2 or 4 AIM 9's and 2 or 4 AIM 7's. The AIM 7 Sparrow was a beyond visual range missile, but in Viet Nam it's effectiveness was further reduced by the ROE's that required visual identification. It didn't do well at short ranges. The Marines sometimes mounted an SUU-16 Vulcan gun pod on the centerline in place of a fuel tank. However, it was only used for ground attack. There was no cockpit gunsight, and it vibrated badly, so it was useless for air to air.

The AF flew F-4C's, D's and E's, but only the E model had an internal M61 rotary cannon. They carried AIM 4 Falcon [early] and the AIM 7's and 9's like the Navy, plus they also used the F-4 as a bomber. The Navy had dedicated attack jets, so they only used the F-4 as a fighter, except on rare occasions. The AF also used the F-4G wild Weasel for anti-radiation [radar] missions, while the Navy used the A-6 "Iron Hand" for the same missions.

I forgot to mention earlier when I said you guys on the ground had it tougher. We got to fly home to the boat every night for a hot meal and our own bed. Unless that is, we got shot down, which we tried very hard to avoid.

[jlottmc]

Rub it in, I was stationed at MCAS Cherry Point, I seldom had it good in the bush. I do know that I got a new respect for kerosene burners a time or two, and remember saying "Damn I'm glad that's on my side." I also remember putting in a few calls for some close air support and getting told that we were too close to the target. Lost a bunch of respect for the Air Force after that. On the flip side of that though, we were rather glad when one of ours (Marines) answered the radio, but we had to make real sure that our numbers were right though. The Marines would light up the co-ordinates you gave them, and not question it. The Air Force, and the Navy both told us a few times that we were way to close. If you discounted the ***** traps and the getting shot at, and the ROE's that we had to operate with (we all but couldn't shoot back), then my time in Bosnia wasn't that bad. We had more stupid come from us than anywhere else. I'll tell you about some of those later though, got lots going at work now.

[wyntrout]

That's why I liked flying. We could plan our missions, take off, get gas, and go do our thing. Afterwards, we went home and could hit the club or go home to our families. We flew over the mud and the "little people"... hey, everybody looks little from up there. :D

TDYs and deployments were different. My crew went to England twice on TDYs -- Busy Brewer -- the last in April '87, right after my bride of less than a year had just gotten stationed at Loring AFB, Maine, with me... less than two weeks together.:(

Those TDYs were decent... the first ('77/'78) we stayed in the Brize Norton Officer's Mess and the last time at Fairford where we stayed in a hotel in downtown Swindon... really roughing it. The pilot and I had our own rooms and the rest of the crew had to double up.:)

TDYs after that, they started "deploying" in tents out in fields.... I'm glad I missed that fun!

The good thing about flying over there, was shorter flights. We took off did what we had to do and then landed... no "bumps and circuits"... too noisy. Back in the states were would do our thing and go back to the base where we would do touch and go's for hours... and hours... it was hard to stay awake after 8 to 10 hours or more of flying and all you were doing was monitoring the touch and go's. One of the bomb/nav' team had to give best flare speeds to the pilots based on the fuel remaining as a check for the copilot, and it was helpful to watch airspeeds and altitudes for the pilots when I wasn't doing an airborne radar directed approach (ARDA) for practice. I actually used my radar a time or two to help the pilots land... Hawaii once. Airfields usually have a distinctive look on radar. The nav' and I did have a vested interest in keeping the pilots from making any unscheduled landings... crashes.

I miss the camaraderie and being with the guys. Flying was fun when you took off on time... delays sucked... too much replanning and work trying to get back onto some kind of timetable where we could practice what we had planned. At least we weren't getting shot at... peacetime training.

Wynn:)

[jlottmc]

Did you know that when the Air Force came to Cherry Point, and had to stay in our barracks, that they got a "sub-standard living pay allowance"? I mean WTF was that all about?

[wyntrout]

I guess there wasn't maid service and room service... and no amenities like a pool or sauna??:rolleyes:
We got standards.:D

Thinking about those TDYs to England... when I stayed in the Officers' Mess, they had guys whose MOS's were bartenders and bat boys... kind of butler/manservants.... That kind of stuff. Much more civilized... or civilised. :D
Wynn:)

[jlottmc]

I honestly think that it was because we didn't have cable and tv's in our barracks, unless we paid for it. The Air Force is also the only branch that issues umbrellas to male staff. Honestly, people wonder why Marines don't play well them. I was on a deployment to St. Vincent and in this day and age the word is joint op. Well the Air Force was tagging along (still haven't figured out why, they did nothing), and if I hadn't seen this straight from the MAGTF planner himself I would never have believed it. I saw the Air Force security plans which read and here I quote:
"Hostile Action is not anticipated, however if in the event that there is a threat to Airmen, they are directed to run to the nearest Marine bunker and wait for all clear to be sounded."
It went on with this: "If an Airman is caught away from a bunker they are to find the lowest point of elevation, and wait for the all clear to be sounded"
Further into the plan was this little gem: "If under enemy attack, and a Marine is out of ammunition, Airmen are directed to give their ammunition to the Marines, so that they may continue to fight."
After we stopped laughing, all we could say was wow.

[wyntrout]

Hey, the AF knows its limitations and unless you're Military Police or a Special Ops type, you're not trained to fight. We shot at paper targets for qualification and some weenies actually thought that qualified them for combat, or shooting at real people... shooting back.:eek:

And, yeah, I thought about air condiitioning, hot running water, TV, and a mini-bar, and a few other "amenities" the Marines probably didn't require.:D

And, as I remember it, when I was active duty, umbrellas weren't allowed... we had plastic covers for our "wheel hats". We couldn't push baby carriages or walk dogs, either.

When I was going to language school, my cube-mate was a 6 ft ++ Marine... PFC and then Lance Corporal. We went to school, partied and had GI parties, cleaning the barracks together.

At Danang, I gave our protective Marine brothers rides in our crewbus whenever I could. Those guys went there for R&R... after months in the boonies.

Wynn:)

[jlottmc]

Good times. Those who do not know what people like me mean when I talk about the Brotherhood. They wonder why I am going back to school for Criminal Justice and want to join a PD. I also learned that if I were to enlist in the Air Force, there are only three MOS's that they would let me have. Wynn you just mentioned two of them, the third is armorer. And this is after I take a 6 month "deprogramming" class.

[wyntrout]

Dang, I was thinking bartender or bat boy?? Then I remembered MP or Spec. ops. :D
The Air Force does have a few jobs that are frontline combat... forward air controllers (jump-qualified), PJs (medics who are jumpers... out of airplanes! :eek:), and some kind of air commandos.
Wynn:)

[OldLincoln]

Our briefing for the TDY to Clark was stateside. They took us into a bank vault type room and closed the door. Then they showed us a map of the South and ran us through the escape routes (due South) and "If captured it is your duty..." drill. Then they issued us .38 snubbies and shoulder holsters and a dozen rounds in a little cotton baggie with drawstring. Basically they scared the _ out of me.

So when we arrived at Clark I had my gun on and was looking where to run. Then I saw the locals wandering around bare chested with fatigue pants cut into shorts and relaxed.

We had the best food there of my entire tour. It was cooked to order and help yourself to ice cream. Clark's NCO club was the best and you could see officers sneak in once in a while.

Yeah the Air Force had it good. I tried to enlist in the Marines, but was rejected for my flat feet. The AF recruiter was just down the hall so I tried there. He said "we want you for you brain not your feet" and I knew I found the right place.

I think having it so good at Clark and seeing planes shot up or not return and wounded ferried to the hospital was part of my guilt thing. I would have traded my good times and food for a tent and MRE's at Clark if a grunt in country could have had it. I did my job, got my medal for showing up, and went home. Not a satisfying experience.

When I go to the VA hospital and see the real deal guys I have a lot of respect for them.

[wyntrout]

Dang! That reminds me of Okinawa. I shoulda gotten a Purple Heart for eating breakfast in the chow hall there. I liked toast with my omelets and the bread was locally made... very rough... especially if toasted. It took the roof of my mouth off! Dang, but that hurt.... yep, definitely service connected and during the rigors of war. I never got one of those "wounds" like Frank got in MASH, though... like when he wanted to get a Purple Heart for getting a shell fragment in his eye... from a boiled egg.... only slightly worse than shooting an M-79 grenade launcher at something too close... not even the enemy... and wanting and being denied by the military Doctor attending to his "wound" ... and eventually getting a Purple Heart for wounding himself, if you could call a needle-sized splinter poking out of his arm a WOUND, as John Kerry, Mass. Senator and presidential candidate did,... Not to be confused with the Senator Bob Kerrey who was a SEAL and lost a leg in Viet Nam, earning the medal of Honor.
Wynn:)

[O'Dell]

I honestly think that it was because we didn't have cable and tv's in our barracks, unless we paid for it. The Air Force is also the only branch that issues umbrellas to male staff. Honestly, people wonder why Marines don't play well them. I was on a deployment to St. Vincent and in this day and age the word is joint op. Well the Air Force was tagging along (still haven't figured out why, they did nothing), and if I hadn't seen this straight from the MAGTF planner himself I would never have believed it. I saw the Air Force security plans which read and here I quote:
"Hostile Action is not anticipated, however if in the event that there is a threat to Airmen, they are directed to run to the nearest Marine bunker and wait for all clear to be sounded."
It went on with this: "If an Airman is caught away from a bunker they are to find the lowest point of elevation, and wait for the all clear to be sounded"
Further into the plan was this little gem: "If under enemy attack, and a Marine is out of ammunition, Airmen are directed to give their ammunition to the Marines, so that they may continue to fight."
After we stopped laughing, all we could say was wow.

Well, what do you expect, when their academy uniforms were design by Cecil B deMille - no joke!

[.45mac.40]

:yo:

1/12 Cav Vietnam KIA 1966
Vietnam 1st Battalion (Airborne), 12th Cavalry. 1966. In memory of the men from the First Battalion, 12th Cavalry. who gave their lives for their country ...
1/12 Cav Vietnam KIA 1966 (http://www.12thcav.us/In_Memory_viet_112_date_66.htm)

1/12 Cav Vietnam KIA 1967
Vietnam 1st Battalion, 12th Cavalry. 1967. In memory of the men from the First Battalion, 12th Cavalry. who gave their lives for their country during the ...
1/12 Cav Vietnam KIA 1967 (http://www.12thcav.us/In_Memory_viet_112_date_67.htm)

Long time ago .... seems shorter.... I even feel guilty about making it outta' there. I miss them all !

Mac
www.centexpgr.org

[wyntrout]

Nice memorials, Mac. I know that I have friends' names on The WALL and every time I see that... especially with someone... a vet... an obvious family member or just about anyone there showing emotions, I get choked up. I've only seen The Wall on the tube, and from afar while in DC, but I've never gone to stand in front of it. I'm getting choked up just thinking about it now. I can hardly type for the waterfall, and I don't know how I could stand there in front of all it represents. It's so humbling and I feel so unworthy in front of the names of all of those who gave everything. Guilt is one of the emotions... that I didn't contribute as much as they.
Wynn

[Bawanna]

Hold your head up Wynn, you did your part and you were there. They wouldn't take me, I tried them all. If there's an unworthy one with a major guilt trip, it's me. I'd still go if they changed their minds and would let me but it's not looking good for me.

[wyntrout]

Hey, they could build a tank around you and turn you loose on a battlefield... kind of like they built the A-10 around the 30mm cannon. :)
Wynn

[Bawanna]

Seriously (ok I do serious sometimes). I offered to bring my own stuff. I could drive a tank or a humvee, or be a roof gunner. Sniper. Lots of ways I could do something. I don't do good with authority and when I get riled up there's no "off" switch which can be bad but I'm ready.
Course now with one of theirs as our leader I'm not quite as ready but I'd help the guys and gals over there anyhow.

[OldLincoln]

If you've ever wondered what kind of hell it is to get shot up and survive, take a look at Lone Wolf's thread (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1090352) on Glock Talk. It's quite long (over 5,000 posts to date), and she has been very public with her trials. She has a terrific attitude and is recovering with a long way to go, but I wouldn't wish that journey on anybody.

[.45mac.40]

Wynn...
Welcome home brother !!!
I know, its been fourty some odd years ... but, I heard it many times, this week-end.
( National Gathering of the Guard // www.centexpgr.org ) It brought back all tha' tears // AND.. it felt good to let some of it go !

Mac

[aray]

I never served in the military, but I do support you guys with intel.

But a day after 9/11 seems as good a time as any to tell all of you: THANKS!

On a different note (but still military related) I think you'll find the following story interesting: Married pilots hook up on military refueling mission - JSOnline (http://www.jsonline.com/news/97641399.html)

[johnh]

Many, many thanks to all of you! My father-in-law was there, doing military intelligence in Saigon. He never talked about it. I am sure he had his reasons, but it makes me sad now that he is gone. The grandkids will never know about it, not to mention my wife and her sister. His brother told us that he lost his whole team in a bomb attack on his barracks, and that was all he ever said.

Anyway, glad you guys all made it back and it is good to hear your stories!

John

[wyntrout]

Thanks, Mac, and the rest of you guys. When returning from SEA, I had no bandwagon, but at least I missed the gauntlets of hippies and war protesters spitting and throwing red paint on returning servicemen and calling them baby killers.

John, it's too bad that your father-in-law didn't talk to you about his experiences. I know that there can be a lot of reasons... and more than it was just too painful to relate.

Wynn