9mm.Do you feel safe?

[Dietrich]

I`ve read many articles concerning 9mm vs. .45cal and the battle rages on and on with the edge going to the .45.This comes as no surprise to me but it has always seemed like an apple and oranges type of debate. I know that the 9mm is looked upon with disdain by many in the military but I believe that it`s because the military is bound by the rules to carry only FMJ ammo.
I personally have never felt under-gunned when I carry a 9 because of the advancements in the manufacture of self defense ammunition. How about you? Are you comfortable with the stopping ability of the 9mm?

[border bandit32]

I`ve read many articles concerning 9mm vs. .45cal and the battle rages on and on with the edge going to the .45.This comes as no surprise to me but it has always seemed like an apple and oranges type of debate. I know that the 9mm is looked upon with disdain by many in the military but I believe that it`s because the military is bound by the rules to carry only FMJ ammo.
I personally have never felt under-gunned when I carry a 9 because of the advancements in the manufacture of self defense ammunition. How about you? Are you comfortable with the stopping ability of the 9mm?

Give me a PM9 and 7 rounds of 124 Gr. Gold Dot +P and I feel all warm and fuzzy!!!

[deadhead1971]

I was looking at a book last night on WW2. They used fmj. The germans used 9mm in their MP-40 and MP-38 machine guns and their lugers. In the book, there was a marine holding a 1911 standing over a dead japanese.

Seems to me the fmj / hp debate is just as silly as the caliber wars. Anyone seen the .50GI? Now that's better than a .45 right? :) The .50GI is the new "king of the hill."

[lawndart]

I agree, Hitler wiped out half of Europe with 9mm's.

[zena]

I've only ever carried 9mm and do so by choice, not default. The gun is small enough so I can ALWAYS have it on my person. We've all read stories of high round count and big caliber STILL not stopping crazed junky/zombie people. The gun I always have is the one I'll count on. If, God forbid, it doesn't do the job I need to get done, then it's just my turn to go.

[Dogman]

99% of the time I carry a 9mm and don't think twice about it, when I'm feeling real manly I'll carry a .45 until the wife gives me my opinion for the day.

:D

[ltxi]

....but adequately armed.

[MattTheKnife]

In my decade of CCW, 9mms have been my main carry guns. I've never felt "undergunned."

In the debate of 9mm vs .40 vs .45: I find hollow-points make the arguments moot. I choose 9mms because I find them more reliable.

[Dozer]

The gun I always have is the one I'll count on. If, God forbid, it doesn't do the job I need to get done, then it's just my turn to go.

That says it for me. I personally carry a 40, but would likely carry a 9 if it was as small as my K40. Right now, the 9 I have is a Taurus 92, and it's kind of big.

[ltxi]

.......In the debate of 9mm vs .40 vs .45: I find hollow-points make the arguments moot........

I fully agree....current bullet/cartridge technology has made a big difference. So have the guns. After maybe 20 years of shunning the nine (except for a S&W 940) in favor of 1911's and .357s when I could carry them and .38 snubbies and Colt .380s when I couldn't, the PM9 and modern cartridges brought me back into the fold big time.

[packinaglock]

Give me a PM9 and 7 rounds of 124 Gr. Gold Dot +P and I feel all warm and fuzzy!!!

Exactly!:D

[Cappy]

I`ve read many articles concerning 9mm vs. .45cal and the battle rages on and on with the edge going to the .45.This comes as no surprise to me but it has always seemed like an apple and oranges type of debate. I know that the 9mm is looked upon with disdain by many in the military but I believe that it`s because the military is bound by the rules to carry only FMJ ammo.
I personally have never felt under-gunned when I carry a 9 because of the advancements in the manufacture of self defense ammunition. How about you? Are you comfortable with the stopping ability of the 9mm?

Yeah, I do! Shoot, with Cor Bon ammo one can do some real damage. The 45 is bigger and slower, but with the right faster 9 mm ammo, you can still do plenty of damage to stop the attacker. I have a friend who had to, and did it with one shot. Now he is haunted by the incident -- long story.

[Gottabkiddin]

Seeing how no round is a guaranteed one shot stop and placement is key. Yes, I feel just fine with the 9mm for my carry round. I carry the Gold Dot 124 +p in my CW9 and have on confidence problems at all.

[.45mac.40]

:popcorn:
I feel better having alittle more lead, and alittle more push....especially now, that our society has overfeed some of the population ... and, if it's cold out side...I'm thinking, I need something ... that'll get thru all that toilet paper...we call jackets and coats.
Besides, I like the full size .40 and .45s with tha' 13 rd. mags. // Feels like a good shooting tool and/or hammer..in my hand !
Mac :33:

[WMD]

They say "bigger is better" but I would not want to be hit by either a 9mm or a .45. An interesting statistic to look up is what is the most predominent cartridge used in deaths caused by firearms. Last time I checked (which was a while ago) it was .25 caliber! Yep! You guessed it! the old "Saturday night special".

I carry based upon what size gun I can get away with (considering what I am wearing). This ranges from my 22 cal NAA derringer to my 1911 Commander and a few calibers in between. I look at it this way.... What type of person am I most likely going to run in to where I will need my gun? Probably will not be someone in full swat gear (unless the Lefties get their way) ;-)

I do not hang out in bars, street corners late at night, or in bad neighborhoods. Someone could break in to my house but probably would not be a pro criminal. If I was a cop and in areas where trouble (read as drugged out whacko with a gun) was a high probability, then caliber would become more important to me

I think the main thing is... to have "something" in the event you need to protect yourself or your family.

My little P380 does a fine job for me most of the time.

[tv_racin_fan]

I am of the opinion the 22 you will carry is better than the 45 you leave in the truck. That said I generally carry a K9, I will sometimes swap out with the wife and carry her CW9 and I would have no issue with the P380.

[oldtex]

This is my opinion on the subject. There's no such thing as stopping power. Rendering a threat physically incapable of injuring you requires hitting the right structures in his body, and those structures (brain stem, upper spinal cord, heart, arteries) are protected by bone and/or by depth in the body. For me all handgun calibers are of marginal power.

9mm Parabellum(standard pressure)and .38 Special (+P) with currently available loads are the floor level of cartridges that can offer both sufficient reliable penetration and reasonably reliable expansion.

Any cartridge above this level can offer increases in tissue destruction but usually at a cost of greater difficulty of controlling the weapon during rapid fire, increased muzzle blast, increased flash, lower onboard ammunition capacity, etc. Whether this tradeoff is worth it is a matter of personal choice.

Anything below the 9mm/.38 +P level either has to sacrifice sufficient penetration or reliable expansion. For various reasons (need for an extremely concealable gun, physical difficulty in controlling anything more powerful, etc) guns in these calibers are attractive to lots of folks.

I'm content to carry a 9mm Glock 34 as my primary weapon, and a PM9 and/or .38 +P revolver(s) as backup(s).

If I expected to need to shoot through automobile windshields I would probably choose .40 or .45 ACP instead of 9mm, though, because the best .40 and .45 loads apparently do that better than the best 9mm loads.

[WMD]

Interesting.... I believe Marshall and Sullivan (I hope I have the names correctly) have been keeping stats on "one shot stops" for the past decades. The .45 is still the reigning champ! One shot stops being defined as, the fight is over after the person has been hit once. I understand these stats are taken from LE gunfights as a majority of the source. This would tend to make one believe "there is" stopping power based upon what caliber you are using. Isn't it all about energy at impact?

[oldtex]

Interesting.... I believe Marshall and Sullivan (I hope I have the names correctly) have been keeping stats on "one shot stops" for the past decades. The .45 is still the reigning champ! One shot stops being defined as, the fight is over after the person has been hit once. I understand these stats are taken from LE gunfights as a majority of the source. This would tend to make one believe "there is" stopping power based upon what caliber you are using. Isn't it all about energy at impact?

Interesting info on how bullets interact with the human body at the m4carbine.net website in their terminal ballistics forum.

Among other problems, Evan Marshall and Ed Sanow's books don't take into account the type of tissue that a bullet hits. If the bullet hits abdominal muscle (as an example)that's very different from having it hit the heart muscle. Yet Marshall and Sanow's methodology treat this difference as being completely unimportant. I have their first two books and find some of the data contained in them useful (ballistic gelatin penetration data) but I don't find their "one shot stop" percentages to be useful or even convincing.

I don't buy the energy dump school of thought. If it was "all about energy", then a bullet absorbed by a protective vest would injure the wearer just as severely as that same bullet impacting the heart, lungs, brain, spinal cord, or an artery of the person wearing the vest.

Google Dr. Martin Fackler and you'll find great info about a combat surgeon's thoughts on what bullets do to human bodies. Google Evan Marshall and Ed Sanow and you'll find info as well.

[Mdubtech]

I have a PM9 and a K40 which I both carry. Sold my Taurus 24/7 .45 ACP. The Kahrs I can actually carry! I have to say the .40 is a seriously potent round with the high chamber pressure but the 9mm is no joke with good shot placement. 124grn JHP Hydroshocks will stop most aggressors imho.
Never felt undergunned but sorry for someone w/o one.

[500KV]

I carry my PM9 more often than not, however with the Crossbreed MT I can conceal the CW45 and Kimber almost as well and the heft of the .45 just inspires my confidence a little more.
I also tend to be more accurate with the .45s; don't know why, just me I guess.

Don't think the effectiveness of the .45 vs 9mm round is a real factor anymore as has been pointed out.
It really boils down to personal preference, concealability, accuracy, confidence, etc.

[Grabbrass]

I prefer 9mm ballistics from a short barrel over .45acp ballistics from a short barrel.

I prefer 9mm handling (recoil and followup) over the .40sw.

I prefer 9mm prices (though it too is expensive these days), which makes for more affordable training.

I also prefer a Rem870 12 gauge with an 18"bbl, 6+1, and a speedfeed stock over any handgun ... but I have trouble getting one in my pocket.

[Colossal Uprising]

I am new here, but wanted to weigh in. I was a 1911 .45 fanatic - I have owned Kimber, Paras, Llama.

Last year I was forced to sell my last 1911 because I have rheumatoid arthritis and shooting a magazine full at the range made my hand ache so bad....it was time for something smaller.

I bought a Kahr K40 and it has been the best gun I have ever owned. .40 is my preferred cartridge. However, I wouldn't hesitate to carry a 9mm.

I would not carry a mouse gun in a caliber smaller than 9mm. But a 9mm +p is an outstanding round with good penetration.

It is also an outstanding round for a beginner CCW.

[TopDog]

I know that the 9mm is looked upon with disdain by many in the military but I believe that it`s because the military is bound by the rules to carry only FMJ ammo.

Excellent point and well taken. A good hollow point 9mm does respectable damage. I have always been a fan of the four B's - Big Bores Bust Better. A larger hole bleeds out more, causes more damage. And then nothing is more important than shot placement. A good hit with a .22 is far more effective than a bad hit or even miss with a .44 Mag.

All that being said I look at this way. Carry the weapon you are most effective with. If it's a 9mm that you can shoot proficiently then have confidence that with the proper defensive round you will be well armed.

[Cappy]

I have to agree with 500KV, I am more accuate with my p45, then I am with my PM9. My reasoning is the added barrel length. However, I am more accuate with my M&P 9mm than I am with either Kahr. Again, more barrel to work with! Prior to getting my PM9, my M&P was my favorite gun to shoot at the range. Now, it is my PM9. I love that gun. My wife may say even more than her (lmao):banplease:

[Wayne's World]

I carry the PM9 and I'm not too bad with it at the range but I had the opportunity to shoot a 9mm Sig (2022 I think) with a 3 3/4 or 4' barrel. I defiantly shot better with the longer barrel but would hate to carry it. Much too big for me to hide. I am intrigued by the 45 cal. though.

Question;
Has anyone considered using the extended "ported" barrel that Kahr sells, in the PM9 frame?

[WWhunter]

I have both a PM9 and a PM45. 99% of the time it is the 45 that is in the holster. I only got the PM9 because everything led me to believe it was much smaller...it isn't. I can conceal the PM45 most of the time and only use the PM9 when I have to dress light and be more descreet.
Having said this you can guess what my response is....I am a firm believer in making a bigger hole. While there have been termendous strides in ammo developement the chance of an HP not expeanding is probably greatrer than most guy want to believe. Therefore...I still like making bigger holes. :)
WW

[dirksterg30]

With any of the modern high-quality hollowpoints, a 9mm is just as effective as a .40/.45/.357 etc.

[Longitude Zero]

I prefer the 45. Regardless of the bullet type the 45 punches a much bigger hole.

[johnh]

Modern ammunition technology has certainly changed my view on this. Back in the 80's I felt that there were no reliably expanding hollowpoints for the 9mm, so became a proponent of the 45. I still am, but also will admit that there are now many good choices in 9mm ammunition. This has affected my willingness to carry a 9mm and feel adequately armed, so I do so regularly. I suspect if one looked at long term trends in one shot stops and other records detailing ballistic performance in LE shootings, there would be a tendency for the 9mm to perform better over time. I have not seen any such comparison. What I can say is that the kind of performance given in gellatin and detailed by the media from current loads was not commonly reported in the 1980s when the caliber debate seemed to gain strength due to LE adoption of 9mm handguns.

John

[Smoke Eater]

I believe with modern ammunition its more about the placement than the caliber, if you practice with it? then its good! I would much rather hit them with a 9mm then miss with a .45acp.(should the need arise)

[ltxi]

I'm 100% with you on this one John. I grew up with 1911s and still have great faith in the .45. I had totally abandoned the nine as a poor carry choice by the early 90's, but the combination of Kahr's compact and lightweight carry pistols and improved bullet/cartridge technology like Speer Gold Dot and Federal HST have completely changed my position.

[cobraetti]

9MM for me, I shoot best w/ a 9mm

[500KV]

They also have those Fed.HST and Gold Dots in .45acp, so you can have the best of both worlds lt.
I've become a fan of Remington Golden Saber 185gr hp. Great round.

[madwill]

i chose the p45 for ccw based on 2 reasons: 1 it's one of the most compact 45's on the market. 2 with all things being equal; 45 fmj is better than 9mm fmj then with the same modern bullet technology 45 jhp is still better than 9mm jhp. any advantage bulet design gives the 9mm it also gives the .45. if i'm going to carry a low round single stack automatic i'm going to carry the biggest caliber i can shoot comfortably.

[DakPara]

Limiting myself to guns I actually carry:


I feel pretty good with 8 rounds of 9mm +P in my Kahr P9.

I feel better with 14 rounds of 357SIG in my Glock 32

I feel even better with 16 rounds of 357SIG in my Glock 31

I feel best with 16 rounds of 10mm in my Glock 20SF.

[ltxi]

They also have those Fed.HST and Gold Dots in .45acp, so you can have the best of both worlds lt.
I've become a fan of Remington Golden Saber 185gr hp. Great round.

Except the platform is larger. Custom LW Officers ACP would still be my preferred carry weapon, but PM9 with today tech ammo is more practical most of the time and now my constant companion. Wallet, car keys, BB, PM9 IWB.

[swampman]

if you are confident and competent you can be safe with any of them

[500KV]

if you are confident and competent you can be safe with any of them

Absolutely swampman.
Competence and confidence are the keys.

[Instinct]

I feel safe with my CW9 because it easier to conceal which means I will carry it whereas I wouldn't with a larger frame pistol.

[swampman]

I am 52 and have witnessed a tecknowlege and metalurgy evolution,smaller guns with more power.I am grateful to live at this time,just wish still had 20:20 vision.I love dietrich humor,grass is greener cant get over the fence.

[artg1248]

I hate these threads. Has anyone ever thought to ask the BG's what they feel. You could have a question during booking like:

If you were going to be shot, which would you prefer to be used to punch a hole or two in your chest?
A. 45 ACP
B. 9mm
C. 380 ACP
D. None of the above

[ATW525]

I'd feel adequately armed with my 7+1 K9 in 9mm.

That said, I feel better armed with a .40 or a .45, so that's what I carry. Especially since I've shot my K9 and K40 side by side with carry ammo (Speer 124gr +P and Federal Tactical Bonded 180gr respectively) and found I shoot the K40 better.

[Ol'coot]

I think for me it comes down to personal preference, I made the move to 9mm round almost 30 years ago when I sold my Colt 1911 and purchase a S&W moldel 39-2 which I still have and carry on a regular basis today especally during colder weather when I can use my sholder holster. I purchased my PM9 to allow for easier concealment no matter what I am wearing or what the weather. I am very confidiant in my ability to place the round where it needs to go to get the job done and that the 9mm round will do the rest with out any doubt.

[badge4436]

It is all about placement. Here's a shooting involving 9mm I did witness. A female officer shoots a burglar. She shoots him twice. Once in the abdomen and once in a thigh. This guy went over three walls, travelled 2 blocks and broke into a garage and hid in a car, where we found him. Guy was treated at a hospital and released that night for booking. The gut shot was in the lower left abdomen and he was also shot in the right thigh. Ammo used was Winchester 147 grain Ranger T 9mm. If she had hit him in another area, like the heart or head, then obviously he would have stayed put. Other officers and I wondered how he would have fared with .45 Ranger T's hitting him in the same area. I carry 9mm myself in a Kahr PM9 offduty. Speer Gold Dot 124 grain +p.

[jocko]

ITXI hit the nail on the head. 9mm rounds today are totally awesome. I feel totally safe and confident with my PM9 in my pocket 24/7. the key to being safe and confidkent is to ALWAYS make sure you are carrying. Some of these other calibers likethe 45 especialy are normally to big and to heavy for pocket carry and if I have to dress to carry, then normaly I won't carry...

[Ol'coot]

jocko,

I couldn't agree with you more, I would much prefer a 9mm in my pocket that is easy to carry much more than a 45 in the safe at home. But, in all fairness, I would love to have a PM45 to add to my collection and I can promise that it would not be a safe queen. I hope the wife reads this post, after all Christmas is coming soon and I have been a good boy this year :angel: