will Kahr ever make a double stack?

[charczard]

I remember reading somewhere that kahr signed some agreement with glock that in exchange for using part of their design that they would never manufacture a double stack handgun. I'm just wondering 1) if this is real info, and 2) is it ever going to expire.


I recently acquired a p365, and have noticed that most of the 'magic' that people associate with the magazines capacity is actually a result of the polymer in the handle being super skinny. the p365 magazine is the exact same width as a cz75 magazine. Sig used a short follower, combined with a telescoping spring (things that magguts has been doing for quite a while) to lower the length of the magazine a bit, but in my opinion the only REAL novelty that the p365 brang to the market is the proof that the polymer in the handle does not need to be as thick as other companies have historically thought it must be (the jury is still out on this though because the gun hasnt been out long enough to see if the frames will crack or not).


Will kahr (or any other gun company for that matter) ever start manufacturing guns with thin polymer in the grip, taking sigs innovation to make a double stack with the footprint of a single stack? Or is this still uncharted territory that companies are scared to venture into?

[berettabone]

I can't comment on any "agreement" that was had or not had, but I don't think you'll see any in the near future, just my HO...…………….I believe that they use other manufacturers as guinea pigs to see what works/sells and what doesn't. I can say, that in my neck of the woods, they're (Sigs) being sold by their owners as much as they are being purchased. I see many for sale used, with hardly any mileage. The reasons for this I am sure are debatable…………...:)

[187911]

I can't comment on any "agreement" that was had or not had, but I don't think you'll see any in the near future, just my HO...…………….I believe that they use other manufacturers as guinea pigs to see what works/sells and what doesn't. I can say, that in my neck of the woods, they're (Sigs) being sold by their owners as much as they are being purchased. I see many for sale used, with hardly any mileage. The reasons for this I am sure are debatable…………...:)

Most probably in 40s&w...

[King Rat]

Certainly nothing I am interested in. Kahr already makes some fine 9mm's. Could care less about added rounds. Too much over hyped as it is for small carry guns.

[berettabone]

Most probably in 40s&w... I was speaking about the P365...…………..

[Ed M]

I live about an hour away from Kahr.

No gun shops here in the 3rd largest metropolitan area in Pennsylvania want anything to do with Kahr products.

Sig P365's continue to sell like hot cakes, and seeing a used one for sale for more than a day or two is rare.

Lots of used Glock 43s and M&P Shields, as many are switching over to the P365 now that the initial teething problems are pretty much over with.

As far as frames cracking on the P365 - you can buy a whole new frame for $39 (was initially $20), pop out one pin, and remove the whole FCU.

Swapping out a frame takes about 30 seconds. The serialized part of the gun is the FCU, not the frame. You can now buy the P365XL grip module, and swap it out for the standard P365 grip module. It'd be like being able to buy the PM9 covert frame for $39 and using your PM9 upper. You can't do this with a Kahr, because the frame is the serialized part.

Sig is reaping the rewards of the modularity of their polymer frame guns.

Another example of the usefulness of the P365 design:

I can go to the range and shoot several hundred rounds - get the gun really filthy. I go home, pop out one pin, and remove the entire fire control unit (FCU). Spray the FCU with non-chlorinated brake cleaner, hose out the empty grip, then re-lube the pivot/contact points on the FCU. Whole process takes about 2 minutes to do, and it's as clean and well lubed as new. The upper is about as easy as cleaning a Kahr, but the rear slide plate is super easy to remove and clean out the striker channel on the Sig.

I always thought Kahrs were easy to clean, but the P365 is even easier.

[Scott321]

Unfortunately, my opinion is usually with only a small minority. One of the reasons I dove back into Kahr was because the trigger was similar to my DA revolvers (except much smoother and lighter)... this includes the long reset. Almost every review I read (many of which are joe-blows on YT) say they don't like the trigger and the long reset. Almost every striker fire firearm tries to be like the Glock trigger (which is fine), but that is another reason why I went with the CM9 instead of the G43 (and now the CW45).

Additionally, the P365 I handled had a very short trigger which I don't want on my SD firearm (again, my opinion is usually with only a small minority). I think that Kahr fills a niche with it's combo of trigger, single stack slimness, and SS options. I would, however, like to see a double stack 9 option that used a grip no wider than the 45 models (or K9 width). A 10 round P9 would very likely find it's way into my holster.

[charczard]

Unfortunately, my opinion is usually with only a small minority. One of the reasons I dove back into Kahr was because the trigger was similar to my DA revolvers (except much smoother and lighter)... this includes the long reset. Almost every review I read (many of which are joe-blows on YT) say they don't like the trigger and the long reset. Almost every striker fire firearm tries to be like the Glock trigger (which is fine), but that is another reason why I went with the CM9 instead of the G43 (and now the CW45).

Additionally, the P365 I handled had a very short trigger which I don't want on my SD firearm (again, my opinion is usually with only a small minority). I think that Kahr fills a niche with it's combo of trigger, single stack slimness, and SS options. I would, however, like to see a double stack 9 option that used a grip no wider than the 45 models (or K9 width). A 10 round P9 would very likely find it's way into my holster.

I would like to see this as well. what sig has proven with the 365 is that the polymer in the grips of most 9mm handguns is about 3-4x thicker than it needs to be. If you took say a Pm9 and hollowed out the inside of the grip to make the polymer thinner, you'd now have a gun that is basically able to accept double stack magazines.

[Ed M]

As impressive as the P365 is in regards to round capacity, King Rat brings up a very good point (as he always does).

At what point is enough enough? There's a price to be paid for carrying all this extra lead, and that's weight.

Good situational awareness, and avoiding trouble areas solve a multitude of problems.

Kahr mags are easier to carry than P365 mags, or double stack mags.

Personally, I still feel well armed with my CM/PM/MK micro 9's and a spare 7 round mag. I like the P365 trigger, but feel more comfortable with the Kahr trigger for self defense.

Higher capacity is all the rage nowadays, but Kahr got the whole concept of small conceal carry guns right a long time ago....

[charczard]

I also prefer the kahr trigger. My ultimate 9mm ccw gun would be a pm9 with the p365 frame footprint. People definitely get too caught up with capacity I can agree with that. I (like you) can also agree that 10-12 rounds is a good solid number for a ccw setup. I'd just prefer that they all be in the same magazine than in separate mags, taking up less space on my person.

[guido4198]

Ed M said:
"Higher capacity is all the rage nowadays, but Kahr got the whole concept of small conceal carry guns right a long time ago...."
I agree with Ed's comment. When I went looking for the best choice in a small easily concealable 9mm handgun..Kahr was the hands-down winner at that time.
If I were starting the shopping process today...I'm not sure I would end up making the same decision.
What's changed..??? This may sound a bit foolish to some, but here goes:
My interest in carrying a concealed handgun has historically been based upon my need to protect myself or another from "death or grevious bodily injury" in a narrow encounter with bad actors committing a simple felonious assault. For a little background, I've conducted combat operations on three continents and have never wished for LESS ammunition.
As I look around today, I have to consider the possibility of using my concealed carry weapon to engage a heavily armed insane "mass shooter". To that end, I have been revising my thinking and taking another look around at carry options. Not sure where this is going yet, and I know I'm opening a big can of worms even bringing it up but there it is.

[JohnR]

Count me in that minority, too. Practical or not, I think a 10-round Kahr in a CW9 size package would sell like hotcakes. I also think the Kahr .45 grip outside dimension may accommodate that, and also provide better control than a thinner grip.

One reason I see given for disliking Shields is the grip is too thin to shoot well.

[berettabone]

The only issue I see with Kahr right now is the difficulty in racking the slides. I believe that they would sell more firearms if this weren't the case. I will probably be forced to find a different carry gun because of this fact along with arthritis and hand strength...……………………………………………………...

[Mike_usn_ret]

Here in N central Fl a Kahr in a LGS or pawn shop is rare. Most owners jump down your throat asking why not buy a "real" firearm that comes from the factory ready to shoot and has better fit and finish. Truth is...that is how many fell that have never owned and taken the time and extra $$$ to break a Kahr in if needed when they buy one. I was frustrated with my CW380 that I almost decided not to try the larger CM9. That decision would have been a real bad one as my CM9 is my EDC and a great firearm. My CZs are still my overall favorite.... just something about them critters! There are many things that Kahr can do to improve the existing firearms they sale...rather see that than a double stack.

[rx7sig]

Higher capacity is all the rage nowadays, but Kahr got the whole concept of small conceal carry guns right a long time ago....

I did a happy dance when I shot my K9 for the first time after having purchased it new about a year ago. I CC it strong side in a Mitch Rosen thumb break holster, and I shoot it a lot (124 gr. Speer GD +P, most often). Wood grips provide the final, perfect touch (for me).

(For a double stack, I have my .357 Sig X-Changed M11-A1--which shoots my favorite caliber.)

Please, please, please, Kahr Inc, do NOT mess with the K9!

rx7sig

[JohnR]

It could be a K10 :)

[Ed M]

The only issue I see with Kahr right now is the difficulty in racking the slides. I believe that they would sell more firearms if this weren't the case. I will probably be forced to find a different carry gun because of this fact along with arthritis and hand strength...……………………………………………………...

^^^^^This right here. My LGS owner really likes Kahr's build quality, ease of shooting, and ability to conceal them.

People just have a hard time racking the slide. He carried some Kahr value series models recently, and couldn't give them away. I bought a couple out of guilt for talking him into carrying Kahr again after he ran into this issue in the past.

The S&W 380 EZ has been very popular for ladies and a lot of men for this very reason. This is a very real issue that Kahr is going to have to address if they want to capture a larger market share. Name a 9mm CCW that is harder to rack than a Kahr....

[dao]

Not for everyone, or every application (eg iwb without a sweat shield), but Arachnigrips make a big difference with racking the slide. Kind of pricey but they last a long time and even look good.

That being said, if Sig can make a doublestack mag that fits in something less then a doublestack grip I think Kahr could too. And they would almost certainly tap into a bigger customer base by doing so.

[Armybrat]

Count me in that minority, too. Practical or not, I think a 10-round Kahr in a CW9 size package would sell like hotcakes.
I have been advocating such a Kahr in this forum since last year - as long as Justin can keep the gun at the same dimensions, but perhaps with the “Covert” slide & barrel.
A couple of more ounces of weight for a 10+1 would not bother me.

[King Rat]

^^^^^This right here. My LGS owner really likes Kahr's build quality, ease of shooting, and ability to conceal them.

People just have a hard time racking the slide. He carried some Kahr value series models recently, and couldn't give them away. I bought a couple out of guilt for talking him into carrying Kahr again after he ran into this issue in the past.

The S&W 380 EZ has been very popular for ladies and a lot of men for this very reason. This is a very real issue that Kahr is going to have to address if they want to capture a larger market share. Name a 9mm CCW that is harder to rack than a Kahr....

I have arthritis in my off hand thumb joint. Flares up especially when I reload. Pinching seems to bother it. I have learned to rack the slide in all my guns using the Arm/elbow technique and never a problem with hard to rack slides. In fact it is just natural for me. Wish I had a video to demonstrate. My SR9C has a strong recoil spring and no problems with that, and my Nano's also have strong springs and no slide Lock and no problems. Actually find it the fastest way to rack a slide. At least for myself. I also use barbells every other day to develop the muscles around the wrist and arm to keep the adjoining muscles strong.
If a bad flare up occurs, I will use a thumb brace. Also I have been on a anti inflammatory diet for a long time which helps alot.
That said, I understand some folks have it pretty bad. And I would most definitely look at the EZ

Ed, you are correct. I did have a chance to shoot the EZ and it is EZ.

[Ed M]

Yet again.....

Walked in to my LGS this evening, and the owner said "Just the guy I'm looking for."

He'd taken a Kahr PM9 as a trade in earlier today, and asked if I was interested in it. Looked it over, and it was obviously never fired except for the test round at Kahr.

The original owner bought it for his wife, but she couldn't rack the slide - and neither could he.

He sold it to me for what he gave for it - $175.

Apparently, I should start a Kahr rescue....

[dao]

THAT is quite the deal, congrats!

[JohnR]

Ya gotta rack it like it’s a rattlesnake about to bite you.

[tokuno]

*envy*

[BirdsThaWord]

As impressive as the P365 is in regards to round capacity,

At what point is enough enough? There's a price to be paid for carrying all this extra lead, and that's weight.

All of my carry guns are loaded with Liberty Civil Defense, which weighs WAAAAY less than other defense rounds. I can carry my P365 mags filled with Liberty that weighs less than my fully loaded single stack mags that are loaded with standard defense rounds. Just putting this out there in case the weight of a few more rounds really is holding someone back.

[Armybrat]

Springfield Armory is introducing an 11+1 9mm that is roughly the size of a CW9.

[DavidR]

Springfield Armory is introducing an 11+1 9mm that is roughly the size of a CW9.

It’s probably in between the CM9 and CW9 and closer in size to the CM9.

My P365 is about the same size as my CM9 and definitely smaller than my P9. The new Springfield Hellcat is about the same size as the 365.

[JohnR]

Interesting. Never seen sights like that before, either.

https://www.springfield-armory.com/hellcat-features/

Hello Justin, you might want to pay attention...

[Ed M]

Glock's response to the P365 was the 43X. Same slide as the 43, but a longer grip.

Pretty lame response, but it has the "magical" 10 round mag that marketing has told us we "need".

Anyone else notice that Kahr's new PM9 Covert is a PM9 slide with a longer grip? Maybe Kahr should have called it a PM9X. All past Kahr Coverts had a longer slide on a shorter grip. Hmmmm.

IMHO, the Covert is proof that Justin is paying attention to the "trend". One doesn't graduate from an Ivy League school by being dumb.

[Bawanna]

Personally to me the covert should have a longer slide and a shorter grip. The barrel is easy to hide IWB, the grip not so much.

Glock did the same thing with the 45 (which I thought was a stupid model designation since it's a 9mm) but it has a short barrel and a longer grip than the 19.

A glock rep was by a couple weeks back with all the models and I did like the feel of the 45 (9mm). Always liked the feel of the 19 but the 45 was actually better.

No matter I'm not getting one anyhow.

[King Rat]

Personally I appreciate the shorter slide for IWB. Especially when it comes to sitting. And Yes, the grip needs to stay short as well. Personally, I think the Kahr Cm/PM size and weight beats all the competitors for carry. And I am a die hard Nano Fan. The Nano and the Kahr have close to the same size, but the Nano/Carry are in terms of weight much heavier by about 3-4 ounces. I will with total emphasis say that increasing round count is of no interest me at all. Just do not need it or want it.

https://i.imgur.com/jyuLrfR.jpg?2

Question, I just bought two more Nano's, (one going to my son when he comes home from the Army) and will be buying a second Kahr. I saw the video done by the Firearms Guy of a PM9 that had 40,000 rounds fire through it. So is the CM9 built the same as far as the innards and should get the same round count as the PM? I have shot the 365, but not interested in the Gun. Just not a good fit for me. And I see no reason to buy the Springfield, because it has a few more rounds of which I am not interested in. I want a Kahr, for the size, weight, build quality, trigger. And yes the trigger. I have owned light striker fired triggers before and after owning the Nano and Kahr, I never want to go for a light trigger again. I love both these triggers for many reasons and shoot them well. For me, it is a almost perfect package. I do which Kahr, if anything, would get the modular take down like the Beretta. So easy to tear down and work on, change grips, etc.

So where I am in the next purchase, is the Kahr PM.

[Mike_usn_ret]

Personally I appreciate the shorter slide for IWB. Especially when it comes to sitting. And Yes, the grip needs to stay short as well. Personally, I think the Kahr Cm/PM size and weight beats all the competitors for carry. And I am a die hard Nano Fan. The Nano and the Kahr have close to the same size, but the Nano/Carry are in terms of weight much heavier by about 3-4 ounces. I will with total emphasis say that increasing round count is of no interest me at all. Just do not need it or want it.

https://i.imgur.com/jyuLrfR.jpg?2

Question, I just bought two more Nano's, (one going to my son when he comes home from the Army) and will be buying a second Kahr. I saw the video done by the Firearms Guy of a PM9 that had 40,000 rounds fire through it. So is the CM9 built the same as far as the innards and should get the same round count as the PM? I have shot the 365, but not interested in the Gun. Just not a good fit for me. And I see no reason to buy the Springfield, because it has a few more rounds of which I am not interested in. I want a Kahr, for the size, weight, build quality, trigger. And yes the trigger. I have owned light striker fired triggers before and after owning the Nano and Kahr, I never want to go for a light trigger again. I love both these triggers for many reasons and shoot them well. For me, it is a almost perfect package. I do which Kahr, if anything, would get the modular take down like the Beretta. So easy to tear down and work on, change grips, etc.

So where I am in the next purchase, is the Kahr PM.

This is a prime example of why there are so many different guns for sale. I hated my Nano and only kept it a couple of weeks. Could never hit the broadside of a barn with it. Went to a S&W SD9 and was very accurate with it. This is why people should never listen to an individual that says a certain firearm is a POS. All in the eye of the beholder as they say!!!

[King Rat]

This is a prime example of why there are so many different guns for sale. I hated my Nano and only kept it a couple of weeks. Could never hit the broadside of a barn with it. Went to a S&W SD9 and was very accurate with it. This is why people should never listen to an individual that says a certain firearm is a POS. All in the eye of the beholder as they say!!!

And yet I put 10,000 rounds through it and one of the best shooting firearms I have. Shot it very well my first day out. I think I may still have that photo. I am not posting to say the Nano is the Best or any firearms is the best or to start bashing any gun. Never shot the SD9, but betting it is a nice pistol. I do understand that many folks just cannot shoot a DAO very well. But that is not the guns fault. Some folks say the Kahr trigger is too long and too heavy and they cannot shoot it well. Ok, fine. but don't understand it when they blame the gun.
I use to shoot Light Striker Fired semi-auto's. Shot them well, but found out I like the DAO, and since shooting them so often actually do better than I did with a Light trigger. Again, as you say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
And for sure, if you cannot shoot a gun well, it is time to find another. And one shoe does not fit all.

[Ed M]

I saw the video done by the Firearms Guy of a PM9 that had 40,000 rounds fire through it. So is the CM9 built the same as far as the innards and should get the same round count as the PM?

FWIW - the guy that owns that high round count PM9 is here on this forum.

Good Ol' Jocko.

The differences between the CM9 and the PM9 are not important as far as longevity goes. Some are cosmetic (engraving, machining). The PM9 barrel has polygonal rifling, and a slide stop pin that is MIM and has a machined pin (ground, actually). It's a two piece unit with the pin part actually pinned to the rest of the MIM unit. The CM9's 100% MIM one piece slide stop doesn't look quite as nice, but I've never heard of one failing.

The biggest difference to me is the CM9 doesn't have a front sight dovetail - the sight is pinned in, and plastic. This limits sight options, but Kahr does offer a Trijicon night sight option at a reasonable price, and it's good.

Kahr has said the polymer frame is identical between the PM and CMs. Really no reason a CM( shouldn't last basically forever, with the same spring change intervals as the PM series. Same springs, too.

[King Rat]

Thanks Ed. Saw your response on the other thread. Love the Karh. What is amazing is the low cost of the CM9 for such a high quality pistol.

[JohnR]

NRA's writer gushes about the Hellcat: https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2019/9/25/tested-springfield-armory-s-hellcat/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=insider&utm_campaign=1019

"I want one, and I want it yesterday... ...I want the Hellcat because the gun is an animal, and it’s bred to fight."

[King Rat]

NRA's writer gushes about the Hellcat: https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2019/9/25/tested-springfield-armory-s-hellcat/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=insider&utm_campaign=1019

"I want one, and I want it yesterday... ...I want the Hellcat because the gun is an animal, and it’s bred to fight."

That is so funny. How can you take a review with a quote like that seriously? Thanks, Nice to start the day with a chuckle.

[gb6491]

NRA's writer gushes about the Hellcat: https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2019/9/25/tested-springfield-armory-s-hellcat/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=insider&utm_campaign=1019

"I want one, and I want it yesterday... ...I want the Hellcat because the gun is an animal, and it’s bred to fight."
That looks interesting, but I'm pretty satisfied with my P365. The Hellcat would need an exceptional trigger to beat it out.

Speaking of triggers, I spent a lot of time with a P365XL rental the other day and really like it. I swapped slides between it and my 365 with no issues. My only gripe is the fit of the slide sight plate (protrudes above the slide a very slight bit). I was about to buy one when I noticed a like new "blunt nose" PM9 on the shelf. I had a CM9 some years back, but gave it to a buddy who was going to hike the Appalachian trail. One thing that always stuck with me about that gun was how well it pointed for me. In one specific instance, a piece of trash blew along the ground about 5-7 yards in front of me, I fired at it from the hip and altered it's course several times. I chased it down and found it to be a cigarette package with a couple of bullet holes in it...they could've been there before I shot at it, but I'm inclined to think I did hit it. Anyway, the shop let me put some rounds through the used PM9 and it shot right to it's sights at 10 yards. I'm hoping it has some of the CM9 magic in it as I decided to get it ($349) vice a 365XL.
:w00t:
https://i.postimg.cc/TYD6DJLB/9mmk1000.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Regards,
Greg

[Bawanna]

Looks brand spanking new. Not a mark or a smudge on it. Me thinks you done mighty good.

[CPTKILLER]

If Kahr expects to stay in business, they need study the Sig P365 and Springfield Hellcat . Then they should develop a competitive model. However Kahr is a small firm without a lot of engineering staff. This may not even be on their radar.

[dao]

Apples and Oranges.

Kahr is essentially a world unto itself. I don't think there is another firearm out there with the same fire mechanism, or overall design. With a Kahr you get a very slim semi-automatic that has the double action trigger of a revolver. It is a niche product that really only competes with itself, at least for those people that understand its design and accept it for what it is. And what it offers.

I don't disagree that they should look into offering higher capacity models. Though how to do that without sacrificing the slimness of design presents the same challenge to them as it does to other manufacturers. But even if Kahr stayed exactly as they are their guns can continue to be sold and used as BUGs if nothing else. Very safe BUGs. As an example a P380 can be carried virtually anywhere. And makes an extremely capable last defense choice.

[DavidR]

Agree it’s a niche market but a P365 is literally the same size as a CM9 and has substantially more capacity. Size used to be a differentiator for Kahr but no longer.

[dao]

I didn't say it was a niche market. It is a niche product, with no other identical competitors. Part of that is Kahr's triggers. There is no real similarity between a P365 or any other striker fired, SA pistol and Kahr's own system. It is what makes carrying a Kahr in your pocket as safe as carrying a revolver. And using either of them. Just can't get that with a glock clone, even with an external safety. IMO anyway. YMMV

edit: Oh, and by "in your pocket" I am not endorsing or even recommending carrying a Kahr or a revolver in pocket without a holster.

[DavidR]

It is a niche market for people who want a single stack striker fired pistol with a revolver like trigger. Since size is no longer a differentiation, trigger is really the only distinctive thing about a Kahr.

[JohnR]

What's funny is that many of us choose Kahrs and revolvers because we want the trigger. I don't think anyone ever chose a Glock to get their trigger.

[berettabone]

I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would choose a Glock period:) Please, save your letters, nasty emails, and explicit phone calls :behindsofa:

[King Rat]

That looks interesting, but I'm pretty satisfied with my P365. The Hellcat would need an exceptional trigger to beat it out.

Speaking of triggers, I spent a lot of time with a P365XL rental the other day and really like it. I swapped slides between it and my 365 with no issues. My only gripe is the fit of the slide sight plate (protrudes above the slide a very slight bit). I was about to buy one when I noticed a like new "blunt nose" PM9 on the shelf. I had a CM9 some years back, but gave it to a buddy who was going to hike the Appalachian trail. One thing that always stuck with me about that gun was how well it pointed for me. In one specific instance, a piece of trash blew along the ground about 5-7 yards in front of me, I fired at it from the hip and altered it's course several times. I chased it down and found it to be a cigarette package with a couple of bullet holes in it...they could've been there before I shot at it, but I'm inclined to think I did hit it. Anyway, the shop let me put some rounds through the used PM9 and it shot right to it's sights at 10 yards. I'm hoping it has some of the CM9 magic in it as I decided to get it ($349) vice a 365XL.
:w00t:
https://i.postimg.cc/TYD6DJLB/9mmk1000.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Regards,
Greg

I shot the 365, no thanks, will stick with the Kahr, but will be testing the Hellcat soon. Looks like a much nicer gun with the ability to have a better grip rather than riding the slide like the 365 is prone to do with large hands.
By the way, Love the Picture of the Pm9, what a beautiful gun.

http://i.imgur.com/b1Pzu5z.png?1 (https://imgur.com/b1Pzu5z)

[mini14jac]

I like added capacity as much as the next guy but I sold my P365.
My carry guns are Glock, Shield, CW380, LCP....

None of those have the short, LIGHT trigger that my 365 had.
The gun is so small and lively that I unintentionally doubled several times while shooting rapidly.
Had about 600 rounds through mine the last time it happened.
If that was my only carry gun, I could probably have trained around this issue.
All of my other guns have a very similar trigger pull.
Since watching a show about a guy with a light trigger in a race gun 1911 that didn't even know his "double" had left the building and killed a 10 year old, I've thought differently about the trigger pull on my guns.
I decided the P365 trigger was too light for me.

I'm more than happy with 8-11 rounds of a Glock or Shield on my waist.
In my pocket, the G43 feels fine, as does the CW380.
(Seriously considering the Magguts upgrade for the Kahr though.)

A double stack CW380 or CM9 would certainly be worth looking into.