CW45/P45: Flush fit magazine - UPDATED

[gb6491]

Any CW45/P45 owners interested in a flush fit magazine option?
The base mag is less expensive than Kahr OEM magazines, but it's very good quality. The magazine will require some modifications, but they can be done with a file or Dremel tool.
It works flawlessly for me as a 6 round magazine (using a Kahr follower and spring) with proper "lock back" function: YouTube - Kahr CW45: flush fit, six round magazine. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_If5PMhpE28)
It will work as a 7 round magazine (using the follower and spring that comes in it), but will not lock the slide back. Regardless of this, I think it very usable: especially if you carry without a spare mag: YouTube - Kahr CW45: flush fit 7 round magazine. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BgadpW2rn0)

Note: Though I prefer using the Kahr follower and spring, camsden1 reports this mod can be done to a Mec-Gar 6rd. Officer's magazine (MGCO4506) to include locking back with the Mec-Gar components (follower and spring) installed.

Again, this is how I did it, not a "how to": proceed with any modifications at your own risk.

https://i.postimg.cc/ZKV8p0tz/fm1.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Here's a comparison shot:
https://i.postimg.cc/PrZyDdft/2cwsa.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Mec-Gar magazine on the left (note style of follower);
https://i.postimg.cc/BZjKz3z2/4a.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
My apologies for the corny videos:behindsofa:

NOTE to P45 owners: magazines may fit closer to the bottom of the frame in your guns than it does in the CW45. I don't have a p45 to confirm this, but it certainly appears so in LSP972's post: http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=58903&postcount=94

Regards,
Greg

[Mr. Zero]

I am very interested. Is this something you do, or do you have instructions for someone to do the conversion themselves?

Also, I thought it was the follower that activated the slide lock, if thats the case, why does it not work on the 7 round version?

[gb6491]

I am very interested. Is this something you do, or do you have instructions for someone to do the conversion themselves?

Also, I thought it was the follower that activated the slide lock, if thats the case, why does it not work on the 7 round version?
Hi,
Thanks for the reply:)
It's just something I am experimenting with. I'll put together a short "how I did it" post in the near future.
You are correct that the follower activates the slide stop; there is a small shelf on the follower that engages the stop and pushes it up into place when the magazine is empty. The problem with the seven round version is that it uses the follower and spring that came with the magazine. The shelf on this follower, being set up for a 1911 spec. slide stop, does not have enough height to activate the stop. It might be possible to add height to the shelf with a metal insert (ala the Kahr follower), but I haven't pursued that as of yet.
Regards,
Greg

[Bawanna]

I'll look forward to that as well although I'd like to adapt to a PM45. The followers in Wilson Magazines work perfectly and lock the slide in my PM45 in the wilson mag. I have not attempted to put that follower in a Kahr magazine. I may try that when I find the time. Flush would sure be nice.

[VAguy]

Just what I have been wanting for my CW45, looking forward to more info also.

-VAguy

[MikeyKahr]

Would someone find ryoung's glasses already!? :nerd::cool:

[cincinnatijim]

Greg, I'd like to learn more about this as you continue this project. I have a P45.

[beans]

I do not have a CW 45 but I do have a CW 40 and wish that Kahr made all their magazines flush fit.

[gb6491]

Hi all,

First a preface: The following is intended to convey how I did it (or what worked for me) not a “how to do it”. I think that statement necessary because manufacturing tolerances could mean that things that work in my pistol might not work in yours. If you want to try this in your pistol please proceed at your own risk.

Here is some info on the flush fit magazine.

The magazine I am using is from Metalform: (the blued version of this):
Metalform Pistol Magazine (http://www.shop.tsaknives.com/Colt-Officers-or-Kimber-Ultra-7-Round-45-SS-Magazine-45S-730.htm;jsessioni==56B7CB0D91253962BCC4E850380E462 2.qscstrfrnt01)

I bought it from Brownells ($16.16 at the moment): METALFORM : .45/Officers ACP Blue 7 Rd. Nylon Follower w/Welded Base (620-245-117) - World's Largest Supplier of Firearm Accessories, Gun Parts and Gunsmithing Tools (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=22899/sku/45S_230_45_OFF_MAGAZINE_7RD_BLUE_NYLON) The base wasn't welded, but is not removable.
*note: you need to log in at Brownells to see their discounted pricing.

The magazine may or may not lock into place as it comes. If it doesn’t, the fit can be adjusted by removing some material from the top of the latch window (cut out) on the right front of the magazine. Do this slowly, checking often for fit. Once the magazine locks in place, make sure it does so fully. If it doesn’t you may need to remove material from the other surfaces of the latch window.

NOTE to P45 owners: The modified magazine may fit closer to the bottom of the frame in your guns than it does in the CW45. I don't have a p45 to confirm this, but it certainly appears so in LSP972's post: http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=58903&postcount=94
This may (or may not) require a little work on the bottom of the frame to accommodate the magazine.

Once the magazine locks into place, the top of the magazine must be adjusted to clear the bottom of the slide and extractor. Do this by removing material forward of the feed lips. Again, do this slowly, checking often for fit.
YouTube - Why Officer's magazines need to be modified to work in the Kahr CW45 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EBWZvFBeUY)

Note: See VAguy's post for some excellent tips on doing these modifications - http://kahrtalk.com/36325-post35.html

Here's a shot of an unmodified Officer's magazine, the modified Metalform magazine, and a Kahr magazine:
https://i.postimg.cc/0QfcHsXT/2a.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Here are the modifications:
https://i.postimg.cc/X7MkcXvr/5a.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
The amount of material that needed to be removed:
https://i.postimg.cc/L8L7BrRp/7a.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Profile of the unmodified Officer's magazine and the modified one:
https://i.postimg.cc/qvDLKw6T/3a.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Top view of the modified magazine (left) and a Kahr magazine:
https://i.postimg.cc/dtVb8WNH/9.jpg (https://postimg.cc/BtR73C0H)
Round position (Kahr on the left, modified magazine right):
https://i.postimg.cc/rw9Pd5MG/1a.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
I prefer to have the slide lock back, so I'm going with a Kahr follower and spring installed in the modified officer's magazine (6 round capacity). Here's a photo for comparison (modified magazine with Kahr internals left and a stock Kahr CW45 magazine on the right):
https://i.postimg.cc/wBcbmLzc/1-DSC04448.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
YouTube - CW45: hand cycling from a 7 round, modified Officer's magazine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjJqqTKiMAs&feature=player_embedded)

__________________________________________________ _________________________________________________

Alert: camsden1 reports that certain Mec-Gar magazines have a follower that will lock the slide back: http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=40290&postcount=63

wyntrout posted info on where to find these magazines:

CDNN has the Nickel and the blued Mec-Gar Officers 6-rounders for $13.99 each. The shipping is $9.99 for all that you order, so load up.
Officers 45acp 6rd Blue Mag New Mec-Gar (http://www.cdnninvestments.com/of456rdblmag.html)
Wynn

*I now (01-07-2011) have one of these magazines and the slide does lock back during manual manipulation. However, I had multiple instances where the slide failed to lock back during live fire drills. This might be do to tolerance stacking in my CW45 compared to camsden1's gun. I still think the magazine worth a look. If it does work consistently in other guns, all is good. If not, the Kahr follower and spring can be installed in the tube.
*Revisited this magazine (8-2-2011) and removed a little more material from the top of it. Tested it at the range and it worked as per camsden 1's report.
__________________________________________________ _________________________________________________

Other posts/threads to see:
Seven rounds and lock back with the Wilson mag rebuild kit -
http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=67867&postcount=113

Adjusting Chip McCormick follower to lock the slide back - http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=77503&postcount=158

Modified Kahr magazine (shortened with with Kimber base plate) -
http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=82170&postcount=188

CW45 7Rd Flush Fit MAG that locks 100% - http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=7813
Regards,
Greg

[wyntrout]

Wow! Nice presentation, Greg.
Wynn:D

[gb6491]

Thanks Wynn:)

[VAguy]

Well done, thank you. 1 mag ordered :-)

[VAguy]

Here's a photo with a Kahr follower and spring installed in the modified officer's magazine (stock Kahr magazine on the right):
http://i51.tinypic.com/fcrz92.jpg



Any tricks to moving the Kahr follower and spring over to the modified mag?

Do you retain the 7-round capacity when doing this?

[gb6491]

Any tricks to moving the Kahr follower and spring over to the modified mag?

Do you retain the 7-round capacity when doing this?
Here ya go:
YouTube - Installing a Kahr follower into a modified Metalform Officer's magazine. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euvAREpegZU)

Unfortunately, no 7-round capacity with the Kahr follower. This is becuase of the way the Kahr follower is shaped: the larger coil, 7 round spring will not work with it, so you need to use the Kahr spring. This will limit you to 6 rounds (I haven't played with trimming the Kahr spring yet).

BTW, (as I didn't put it in the video) to remove the follower and spring from the Metalform magazine:
Load four rounds and put something through the holes in the magazine body (same as in the video); remove the rounds, then shake/poke/wiggle/pull the follower out of the magazine. Now, put the magazine mouth up against something (so the spring doesn't fly out) and release the pressure on the magazine spring; once pressure is released, remove the spring from the magazine body.

Regards,
Greg

[nwohsy]

Not to hijack this thread, but it has been an inspiration to me. Last night I pulled out some of my 1911 magazines to experiment on my P45. I found out that my Wilson ETM 8 round magazine fit perfectly without modification to the magazine release or feed lips, however there was no slide lock. I then tried an 8 round Chip McCormick Power Mag, which snapped into place, but was a little tight at the top. After a little file work as described in this thread, I found that the Chip McCormick Power Mag snapped into place and created slide lock using its' Shooting Star follower.

I then took everything to the range today. The Wilson fed perfectly, however there was no slide lock, as previously mentioned. The Power Mag fed perfectly and created slide lock. Now I realize that both of these magazines are 8 rounders that stick out the bottom. But wait, there's more.

Chip McCormick makes a 7 round officers Match Grade magazine that would appear to be a flush fit with just a slight modification to the top of the magazine. When I returned home from the range I ordered 3 which I will modify.

I am cautiously optimistic. A P45 with a 7 round flush fit magazine that creates slide lock would be very cool. I'll report back with the results.

[wyntrout]

A six rounder might fit, but seven shouldn't fit flush. I've gotten 6 in the Kahr tube with metal followers. Look at Bawanna's post with pictures. He posted pic of 7, 8, and 10 rounders inserted into his PM45.... Oh, apples and oranges... Doh! Pee 45!:rolleyes:
Never mind.
Wynn:D

[gb6491]

nwohsy,
Welcome to the forums!:)

Your input to this thread is most welcome. I really look forward to hearing how the Chip McCormick 7 round officer's magazines work out.

I tried every combo of springs and followers I had on hand for my 1911s. My government size Wilson mags will lock the slide back, but the follower gets in the way afterward (have to drop it to close the slide); still it might be worth looking at one of their Officer's size magazines.
The Colt OACP magazine is a very good fit and would probably need only a slight amount of material removed from it compared to the other Officer's sized magazines I have on hand. I've used it's follower and spring in my modified magazine and it works fine: locks the slide back, but it's only six round capacity.
None of my 7 round Officer's magazines (Mec-Gar and Shooting Stars) will lock the slide back, putting their springs and followers into the modified magazine yields the same results. That said, I don't think it would be much of a chore to build one of their metal followers up high enough to work the slide stop. I think a piece of shim stock soldered, screwed, or glued into place would do the trick.

Anyway, keep us apprised of your efforts and thanks for the solid input already given.

Regards,
Greg

BTW, I really like carrying with the flush fit magazine. I have about 300 rounds through it (using both the 6 and 7 round follower/spring combos) with nary an issue.

[jlottmc]

I like that 7 round option, and for me if an 8 sticks out a little more I'm cool with that too. I think I may use some of my older 1911 mags and see what happens.

[Catshooter]

Long time ago I posted this thread:http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistols/1077-report-my-pm-45-a.html

I would think that with the right mag you should be able to get 7 in a P pistol, I got 6 into the PM. In fact, if you look at the pic you'll see that my set up is actually a bit less than flush with the butt of the PM.

Be nice if Kahr would adopt these changes so we could have more rounds in factory mags.

Anybody at Kahr listening?


Cat

[gb6491]

Long time ago I posted this thread:http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistols/1077-report-my-pm-45-a.html

I would think that with the right mag you should be able to get 7 in a P pistol, I got 6 into the PM. In fact, if you look at the pic you'll see that my set up is actually a bit less than flush with the butt of the PM.

Be nice if Kahr would adopt these changes so we could have more rounds in factory mags.

Anybody at Kahr listening?


Cat
Cat,
Thanks for pointing out the thread on your PM45 magazine project; that was very nicely done. Kudos to VMO as well!
There was also excellent input from other members in both threads, so I've taken the liberty of including links to both threads and some quoted posts here.
Regards,
Greg


I have been lurking here for awhile, registered today to tell y'all a story.

I love my PM45. I've had to work with it a bit to make it work like it should, even had to send it back to Kahr. They paid both ways, and now it works. Very accurate pistol too.

One thing I would change about it however is no flush mag. I want both, the regular mag and a flush mag, like the PM9. I emailed Kahr about it. Nice guy emailed my back quickly and said they have no plans to make any. *sigh*

I tried shortening one of the factory mags but I failed. Stainless steel is sometimes no fun to work with.

Then the other day here I read a post by vom about using a Colt 1911 mag in his. Ooooo. Lights went on. So I grabbed one of mine, a Springfield Armory seven round blued mag and went to work. Cut it, and spot welded the base back on. Took it out and shot it, nope, the base came of right away.

So, back to the shop. Thought about solder, but didn't like the idea. So I broke out the oxy/actelene and just welded the base plate to the mag.

Shot it tonight and it works! Fed great, the only thing it didn't do was lock the slide back as of course the two followers are very different. Here's a pic:

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo235/Catshooter45/Misc/Kahr001.jpg

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo235/Catshooter45/Misc/Kahr002.jpg

I did make one small alteration to the pistol, I filed a small notch in the frame to clear the toe of the mag base plate. I wanted flush!

Thanks for the inspiration vmo, now this fine piece is a pocket piece at last.


Cat
http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistols/1077-report-my-pm-45-a.html#post9213



Update:

Sorry it took so long to get the photos uploaded. I needed to do some testing and tweaking. I've got them reliable and useable. Here are the pictures:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b97/vmo111/Picture013.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b97/vmo111/Picture014.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b97/vmo111/Picture012.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b97/vmo111/Picture011.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b97/vmo111/Picture010.jpg

It sure fits in the pocket better now. You would be amazed how much space 1/4 inch takes up in a pocket!

Vmo
http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistols/974-1911-mags-pm45.html

[Catshooter]

It is amazing how much a quarter inch is in a pocket. In my original post I forgot to mention that that mag you see in the pic has six rounds in it. Kinda cool, I thought.


Cat

[gb6491]

It is amazing how much a quarter inch is in a pocket. In my original post I forgot to mention that that mag you see in the pic has six rounds in it. Kinda cool, I thought.
Cat
I find that missing quarter inch is also noticeable IWB and I agree an extra round is kinda cool.
http://i53.tinypic.com/140cbx0.jpg
Regards,
Greg

[gb6491]

I do not have a CW 45 but I do have a CW 40 and wish that Kahr made all their magazines flush fit.
Beans,
Have you tried the metal base plate (http://www.kahrshop.com/images/M_MagBase.gif) for the flush fit PM40/Covert models on your CW40's magazine?
Regards,
Greg

[Mr. Zero]

I just picked up a 7 round Mc Cormick Officers match grade mag to try this myself. I will do a pictorial of my efforts.

[Mr. Zero]

I got my 7 round Mc Cormick Officers Match grade mag in the mail today. It snaps in place perfectly with the slide open. It operates the slide stop and has the same fed angle as the OEM mag. I will do the file the top of the mag and check for function.

[nwohsy]

Sorry I wasn't able to post, but that malware thing kept me away. I didn't have any luck with the Chip McCormick Officers 7 round magazine. On the last round the follower would move up and forward of the mag a little higher than the chamber, causing a mis-feed. I had forgot about this being the reason CMC magazines were not recommended for use in aluminum frame 1911. I don't know why it did not happen when I used the 8 round Power Mag. I just placed an order with Midway for 3 Wilson 47 OXC 7 round Officers magazines with low profile base plate. Hopefully the Wilson magazines will be delivered in time for my next range outing on 10/7. I will report back on my findings

Mr Zero I hope you have better luck than I did. I already sold off the 3 CMC Officers magazines to a friend of mine. I have just now CAREFULLY examined the Kahr P45 magazine. The follower is not a straight plane. The front 1/3 of the follower, under the bullet, actually dips down slightly relative to the back 2/3 under the casing. If you experience any problems feeding with the CMC Officers magazine and want to experiment, here is my suggestion;

First try bending the follower down slightly so it is on horizontal plane parallel with the slide. If that fails, then try increasing the distance between the top and bottom of the follower. This should cause the follower to remain inside the magazine tube. Remember if there is too much distance, then you may reduce the capacity back down to 6 rounds, which is really not that big a deal because the CMC fits very flush, which is what we are looking for.

Of course this epiphany came to me just 30 minutes ago. My friend, whom I sold the magazines to will be out of the area for 3 more weeks, so I can't experiment for myself. Mr Zero I hope you are the experimenting type, because I'm impatient, and I would like to see these work. If not I'll give it a try when my friend gets back and I have access to the CMC Officers magazine. I will continue to be cautiously optimistic for the Wilson Officers magazine to work.

[Bawanna]

For what it's worth the Wilson mags work flawlessly in my PM45. I've used the 47D 8 rounders and the 47OX which is the officers model size. They lock the slide back and lock in real fine. Course they stick out in the PM. I was happy because my full size 1911 mags will also work in the bug. One less thing ya know?

[wyntrout]

I posted this earlier on another thread:

I just ordered some stuff from Midway to make a peace offering for Franken-Boomer

ItemID Qty Price Description
-------- ---- ------- -----------------------------------
818121 1 $23.99 Colt Magazine 1911 Officer 45 ACP SS six-round

171154 1 $7.99 Wilson Combat Magazine Follower & spring kit, 8-round(?)

435620 1 $4.99 Pachmayr Contoured Magazine Follower (very minimal stainless steel)

I'm hoping to cobble together a 6-round magazine for CCW. Those parts and what I have already ought to give me something to play with for a while. I couldn't find any metal floor plates there... in stock. They had lots of S&W bases listed, but 60 days or so to order... plus no pictures of those, but I'll bet some might have worked... with a bit of modification. The total cost of new parts is less than one Kahr magazine, and if things don't work out, I can probably sell some of the stuff left over.
Wynn:)

[Mr. Zero]

Sorry I wasn't able to post, but that malware thing kept me away. I didn't have any luck with the Chip McCormick Officers 7 round magazine. On the last round the follower would move up and forward of the mag a little higher than the chamber, causing a mis-feed. I had forgot about this being the reason CMC magazines were not recommended for use in aluminum frame 1911. I don't know why it did not happen when I used the 8 round Power Mag. I just placed an order with Midway for 3 Wilson 47 OXC 7 round Officers magazines with low profile base plate. Hopefully the Wilson magazines will be delivered in time for my next range outing on 10/7. I will report back on my findings

Mr Zero I hope you have better luck than I did. I already sold off the 3 CMC Officers magazines to a friend of mine. I have just now CAREFULLY examined the Kahr P45 magazine. The follower is not a straight plane. The front 1/3 of the follower, under the bullet, actually dips down slightly relative to the back 2/3 under the casing. If you experience any problems feeding with the CMC Officers magazine and want to experiment, here is my suggestion;

First try bending the follower down slightly so it is on horizontal plane parallel with the slide. If that fails, then try increasing the distance between the top and bottom of the follower. This should cause the follower to remain inside the magazine tube. Remember if there is too much distance, then you may reduce the capacity back down to 6 rounds, which is really not that big a deal because the CMC fits very flush, which is what we are looking for.

Of course this epiphany came to me just 30 minutes ago. My friend, whom I sold the magazines to will be out of the area for 3 more weeks, so I can't experiment for myself. Mr Zero I hope you are the experimenting type, because I'm impatient, and I would like to see these work. If not I'll give it a try when my friend gets back and I have access to the CMC Officers magazine. I will continue to be cautiously optimistic for the Wilson Officers magazine to work.

Well, This morning I got to work on my CMC 7 round officer's mag for my P45.

First, I wrapped a piece of heavy paper around the Kahr mag and scribed the top profile of the stock mag. Then I cut out the heavy paper to create a pattern that I transfered to the CMC mag.

I noticed that the curled feed lips on the Kahr mag were 1/8" longer than the CMC mag. The CMC mag also had a longer feed lip on the extractor side than it did on the ejector side. Since this would leave too much material above the feed lips, I had to modify the cutting pattern on the CMC mag to extend the material to be removed all the way back to where the feed lips started.

Then I got to work with my handy drummel tool (no hobby gunsmith jokes please) and removed the marked material. after a test fit, it was still touching the underside of the slide below the extractor when I pushed up on the mag, (not so when it just clicked into place) so I removed a little more material so it cleared.

I cleaned up the burrs and re-assembled the magazine and checked for function. It locked back the slide and was not hitting anything, so I loaded up a mag, locked the slide back and dropped the slide stop.... "curchunk" it chambered a round. I then pulled the slide back and manually engaged the slide stop and repeated . I did that 7 times and cycled 7 rounds without any issues.

Obervations:

Obviously, I have not had a chance to shoot the gun yet, I will try to go out tomorrow and see how the mag performs under actual use. At t he bench, it seems to work great.

The feed angle on the CMC mag is ever so slightly flatter that the stock mag, so slight in fact, that you really have to look hard to see the difference, but it is there. When loading, the round hits the feed ramp just a tad lower than the Kahr mag.

I was a bit curious about the way the follower pulls forward when it's unloaded, but when its in the gun and feeds the last round, there is no issues with the empty mag hitting the internals of the gun or dropping free when the mag release is activated.

I will keep everyone posted on the results of the field test.

-Zero-


I have a question for Bawanna45cal:

When you say the Wilson mags function flawlessly in your PM45, are you using them in their stock configuration or are you having to modify the top of the mag tube to get the slide to clear?

[wyntrout]

VMO, I'm not trying to be critical, and I like what you've done, but I wanted to point out a possible problem with the fully flush-fitting magazines, without any part to grip. I have had malfunctions... stovepipes where the empty case is caught within the ejection port and the next live round is partially chambered, jamming the slide AND the magazine so that it would not fall free. This could be a real problem in a critical situation. We normally shoot two-handed and have to worry about "limp wristing" under controlled situations. In a real-world defense situation, we might be forced to shoot hurriedly or with one hand, increasing the risk of the stove-pipe jam where the magazine doesn't drop free with just the push of the mag-release button.
A show-stopping malfunction like this could be a real possibility. How would you get the magazine out? I could pull mine out by gripping the floorplate. Your mods leave nothing to grip.
I just wanted to bring this up in case you haven't had these problems or thoughts about them.
Wynn:)

[Mr. Zero]

There is actually a tab on the front of the mag that you can pull on, it's not as readily accessible as a larger bumper pad, but it will work.

[gb6491]

There is actually a tab on the front of the mag that you can pull on, it's not as readily accessible as a larger bumper pad, but it will work.
Mr. Zero,
I believe Wynn is referring to VMO's modified magazine pictured in post #21 of this thread.

BTW: I'd like to thank you for super input to this thread and I look forward to reading your range report.:cool:

There has also been a lot of good input posted from others. I look forward to reading the results of their continued efforts as well.

I have decided to go with the Kahr follower and spring in my modified magazine for now. It functions perfectly that way and I like having the slide lock back. I have some extra Kahr followers now, but need to order some more springs before proceeding with cutting either down to gain an extra round. I'd also like to find the 7 round Metalform follower pictured in this post (if it's available in .45ACP size): Glock Talk - View Single Post - New Colt Defender 9mm + Questions (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15335461&postcount=3)
I'm interested in seeing how it would work with springs I have on hand.

On another note, I found the quoted posts below of interest. They are in response to this question (from this thread: http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistols/3456-pm45-owners.html) in regards to the length of the PM45 grip: "I am curious to know if you can get three fingers on the grip or is your pinky hanging off and under the mag?"

I have a small to medium sized hand. My little finger is about half on the mag. It would depend on the size of your hand. From the bottom of the trigger guard to the bottom of the mag. is about 2 1/4 inches.file:///D:/DOCUME%7E1/xx/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif


the very bottom of my pinky is level with the bottom of the mag plate(at least before I sold it...I miss that pistol). I don't have very big hands though.


I find them of interest becuase with the modified Officer's magazine installed the CW45 is very similar in height to the PM45 with the OEM plastic floor plate installed. Seeing this, I wonder if a CW45 Covert project would be worth the effort.
http://i53.tinypic.com/1z1zeao.jpg
http://i53.tinypic.com/20ru5bd.jpg


With the plastic-based magazine, my hand fits perfectly, but without the magazine, my pinky is half on the the grip, so a flush fit wouldn't be bad if the leading edge of the floor plate didn't protrude and make my little finger uncomfortable or pinch it....
Wynn
Now a PM45 with a flush fit magazine would be a different story and might make a Covert project more worthwhile:)

Regards,
Greg

[Bawanna]

Holding my ruler exactly as you have in your picture my PM45 measures
1 7/8" to the bottom of the mag opening on the frame. So we're talking a tad over 3/8" less grip length.

[VAguy]

gb,

Thanks again for taking the time to research and put all this information online. Last eve I modified a magazine as you suggested and it was super easy and I believe is going to work out great. Bench checking of numerous manual cycling of slide with FMJ ammo worked perfectly, I now need to put 100 through her for a real function check. I used the stock Kahr spring and follower in mine.

Couple of tips for anyone else who may purchase and modify a mag for use in their CW45. Make sure you disassemble both mags and remove slide from pistol so that you can clearly see the engagement of the magazine latch in the magazine well. I only had to remove maybe 1/32" of material from the top of the mag latch catch hole to get the same fit as the stock mag....hardly any material at all. Also, when trimming down the top lips of the mag I found it helpful to use a blue Sharpee to mark the amount of material you wanted to remove. The blue Sharpee on black mag shows up very well so you can get just the right amount removed. Don't forget to check and double check how it looks in the pistol with regard to height and factory mag.

Following the most excellent reference pics gb provided here it was hard to go wrong.

-vaguy

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc330/mtnpat/Guns/CW45-appendix-resize.jpg

[gb6491]

Holding my ruler exactly as you have in your picture my PM45 measures
1 7/8" to the bottom of the mag opening on the frame. So we're talking a tad over 3/8" less grip length.
Thanks Bawanna. I think that's a significant difference from the 2 1/4 inches with the plastic base in the quote I posted above for the PM45's height. IMO, all the more reason to have flush (or near flush) fit magazines available for these pistols.
Regards,
Greg

[gb6491]

VAguy,
You're welcome and thank you for your insightful input as well; excellent tips for doing the modifications.
That's a good looking setup you're toting there (darn, I wish I had a waistline like that again). What holster is that?
Regards,
Greg

[Bawanna]

I agree both on the significant difference and the desire for flush magazines and the waistline. I had one like that long long ago in a previous life. Now I got a 6 pack but it ain't in my abs.

[VAguy]

What holster is that?

It's a High Noon Mr Softy. Recently I switched to appendix carry and it works great.

[gb6491]

It's a High Noon Mr Softy. Recently I switched to appendix carry and it works great.
Thanks!:)

[Mr. Zero]

gb,

Couple of tips for anyone else who may purchase and modify a mag for use in their CW45. Make sure you disassemble both mags and remove slide from pistol so that you can clearly see the engagement of the magazine latch in the magazine well. I only had to remove maybe 1/32" of material from the top of the mag latch catch hole to get the same fit as the stock mag....hardly any material at all. ]

I did my modification using Chip Mc Cormick match grade officers mags, and I did not have to modify the mag release hole in the mag tube, it fit and worked perfectly.

-Zero-

[wyntrout]

When you use the Kahr follower, you give up a round of capacity. That's why I'm trying to use the Kahr tube and a minimal metal follower. I just wish Kahr made a metal floor plate for the .45's.
I should get my Colt Officer's Model 6-round SS magazine to play with Monday. I don't have many real metal-working tools... just saws, files, and my DLT... Dremel-Like Tool. Not too many things will work with that tough stainless steel.
I think the Colt follower looks like picture#1. The Wilson follower seems hollow... maybe metal. I hope I can get these parts to work together and give me a fairly flush fitting 6-round magazine for the PM. I'll have to wait and see.

Looking at the Colt magazine picture, it looks like it is a 7-rounder... there's 5 holes and then it looks like enough space for two more rounds...?:confused:

Wynn:)

[Mr. Zero]

Here's my RANGE TEST:

I took the CMC Match grade officers 7 round flush fit mag I altered to the range today. Unlike my bench test, it failed to lock back the slide on the last round, it functioned flawlessly otherwise.

When I returned from the range, I took the CMC mag apart and noticed that the bottom tab that activates the slide stop, was all chewed up on the tip where it had been hitting the bottom edge of the feed ramp. Not acceptable.

I have exchanged some information with someone on the boards here, who told me that they use stock Wilson 47D mags in his PM45 without a problem. So while I was at the range with my friend, I borrowed one of his Wilson magazines. It slid in and locked into place without problem, it even clears the bottom of the slide (no grinding required). However, it would not lock back the slide either, not even on the bench, and when I loaded them to shoot, the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds jammed every time. The loaded round would pop up and drive the nose of the bullet into the top of the chamber and lock up the gun. After that, it functioned fine (except for no lock back).

Seven rounds would be great, but flush fit is the goal, so I may look back to the beginning of the thread and try what the OP had done.
Or I may be sticking with stock Kahr magazines until someone smarter than me gets this thing figured out.

On the good side, other than the mag experimental issues, the gun ran great, this thing is a real shooter. And the A-Grip makes it into a new gun, absolutely, incredibly comfortable and controllable.

[gb6491]

... I didn't have any luck with the Chip McCormick Officers 7 round magazine. On the last round the follower would move up and forward of the mag a little higher than the chamber, causing a mis-feed. I had forgot about this being the reason CMC magazines were not recommended for use in aluminum frame 1911...


When I returned from the range, I took the CMC mag apart and noticed that the bottom tab that activates the slide stop, was all chewed up on the tip where it had been hitting the bottom edge of the feed ramp. Not acceptable.


These replies seem to support my reasoning for trying the Metalform magazine or, more precisely, the Metalform nylon follower. I have seen the Devel/McCormick style follower issue (moving out of the magazine/frame damage) before in alloy frame guns. I wanted to avoid this with the poly frame. The nylon Metalform follower is of a style that is less likely to move out of the magazine or damage the frame. However, while it feeds fine, it will not lock the slide back.



Seven rounds would be great, but flush fit is the goal, so I may look back to the beginning of the thread and try what the OP had done.

I totally agree. A reliable, flush fit magazine was my original goal with this modification. To that end, I am using a Kahr follower and spring in my modified magazine. The combo is still a six round magazine, but the follower will not damage the frame, it feeds without issue, locks the slide back, and achieves a nearly flush fit in the pistol. It's what I carry in my CW45 now with some OEM mags as reloads.
Regards,
Greg

[OldLincoln]

Have you guys looked into the Check-Mate patented follower? Unlike the MCC is has a front shroud that keeps it from sliding forward and hitting the ramp. I should have already received the 3 7rd I ordered a couple weeks ago for my Colt.

Tip: On one of the 1911 forums, they said to order it with the extra strength spring which you can only get from the factory @ $22. Since, I discovered you can buy them at Top-Gun for $17 and it looks like they carry them all. If you want to pursue them, you probably want either the 7rd Compact Check-Mate Follower Hybrid lips in Blued (http://www.checkmatemagazines.com/cart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=13&idproduct=110) ($22) or Stainless (http://www.checkmatemagazines.com/cart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=13&idproduct=108) ($24).

[Mr. Zero]

[QUOTE I totally agree. A reliable, flush fit magazine was my original goal with this modification. To that end, I am using a Kahr follower and spring in my modified magazine. The combo is still a six round magazine, but the follower will not damage the frame, it feeds without issue, locks the slide back, and achieves a nearly flush fit in the pistol. It's what I carry in my CW45 now with some OEM mags as reloads.
Regards,
Greg[/QUOTE]

It's funny, when I put the Kahr spring and follower in my modified CMC mag, it only holds 5 rounds.

I may try trimming the top end of the CMC spring so it can be used with the Kahr follower and see if it is spring coils taking up too much space or the follower legs. If that doesn't work, I am thinking about trimming the legs on the stock follower to see if I can get the mag to hold 6 rounds.

If I could get the modified mag I have to hold 6 rounds that would be great, I only need ONE for carry. I would love to find a full length 1911 mag that I could use for back up with the Kahr, AND for my 1911. After talking with a member here, who uses Wilson 47D's in that mannor, I had high hopes. But after trying them in my gun and having feeding issues, I am back to the drawing board.

I am also interested to know if anyone has tried the Cobra mags.


-Zero-

[wyntrout]

I just used the follower and spring from the Colt Offer's Model SS 6-round magazine and got 6 rounds into the Kahr 5-round (K5), and the Wilson Kit in the COM to insert seven rounds and take up less space than the 6-round Kahr 6G model.
Link:

http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistols/3869-magazine-capacity-increase-45s.html#post36945

Wynn:)

[Mr. Zero]

I just used the follower and spring from the Colt Offer's Model SS 6-round magazine and got 6 rounds into the Kahr 5-round (K5), and the Wilson Kit in the COM to insert seven rounds and take up less space than the 6-round Kahr 6G model.
Link:

http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistols/3869-magazine-capacity-increase-45s.html#post36945

Wynn:)

Wynn,

Thanks for the experiment and post. Since you have not range tested your combo let me issue a warning: The followers your using have no front skirt, just like the CMC shooting star followers. When I did the same experiment you have just preformed using the CMC mag and follower I had the same bench results - a 7 rounds flush fit mag for my P45 that cycled and activated the slide stop. However, when I went to the range, the slide would NOT lock back, and after 6 or 7 magazines of shooting I noticed the bottom / front portion of the follower had been slamming into the bottom of the feed ramp, deforming it.

I have decided that any modified mag needs to have a follower that cannot move forward under recoil (i.e. full skirted magazine follower).

[Bawanna]

Here's my RANGE TEST:

I took the CMC Match grade officers 7 round flush fit mag I altered to the range today. Unlike my bench test, it failed to lock back the slide on the last round, it functioned flawlessly otherwise.

When I returned from the range, I took the CMC mag apart and noticed that the bottom tab that activates the slide stop, was all chewed up on the tip where it had been hitting the bottom edge of the feed ramp. Not acceptable.

I have exchanged some information with someone on the boards here, who told me that they use stock Wilson 47D mags in his PM45 without a problem. So while I was at the range with my friend, I borrowed one of his Wilson magazines. It slid in and locked into place without problem, it even clears the bottom of the slide (no grinding required). However, it would not lock back the slide either, not even on the bench, and when I loaded them to shoot, the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds jammed every time. The loaded round would pop up and drive the nose of the bullet into the top of the chamber and lock up the gun. After that, it functioned fine (except for no lock back).

Seven rounds would be great, but flush fit is the goal, so I may look back to the beginning of the thread and try what the OP had done.
Or I may be sticking with stock Kahr magazines until someone smarter than me gets this thing figured out.

On the good side, other than the mag experimental issues, the gun ran great, this thing is a real shooter. And the A-Grip makes it into a new gun, absolutely, incredibly comfortable and controllable.

Ok, I'll stand before the world and fess up to being the culprit you exchanged info with. I'm totally blown over with your results. I used 4 different Wilson mags, used interchangeably with my Para and my PM45. I ran the whole 8 rounds without a hiccup and the slide locked open probably 9 times on empty and failed once. Other than that, I had no issues. I haven't tried my officer model size Wilson mags but I honestly gotta believe they will give the same results. I'm glad you didn't buy a Wilson mag just to have it not work. I would have felt real bad about that. I'll try to remember to try my officer size mags next trip and see how they run.

[wyntrout]

I included pix of the follower and mated spring from the COM6. The springs must be designed to hold the followers in place. All of the different mag springs were mated to their individual followers. If the spring fills the tube from front to back, it can hold the follower in place, if designed correctly. The COM6 spring/follower seems pretty stable, but I haven't range tested it.
It takes a combination of that and something that will work with the Kahr magazine lips. It's a PITA trying out all of the combos I did with the welded base tube.
Wynn:D

[gb6491]

It's funny, when I put the Kahr spring and follower in my modified CMC mag, it only holds 5 rounds.
-Zero-
:001_huh:I wonder at the dynamics of that. I have no problem getting six into a modified Metalform Officer's magazine using a Kahr follower and Kahr spring.
YouTube - Kahr CW45: flush fit, six round magazine. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_If5PMhpE28)
What is so different in the CMC mag body that would prevent it from doing the same? Could it be the follower didn't properly seat on the spring? I'd really like to know what is going on with this.
FWIW: I just tried a different Kahr follower and spring (from an OEM seven round magazine) in my modified magazine and again had no problem loading six in it.


Have you guys looked into the Check-Mate patented follower? Unlike the MCC is has a front shroud that keeps it from sliding forward and hitting the ramp.
Thanks for that info OldLincoln. I think I need to try one of those followers:)

Wynn,
That's sure some experiment you have going on there. I look forward to reading your range report.:yo:

Regards to all,
Greg

[Mr. Zero]

Ok, I'll stand before the world and fess up to being the culprit you exchanged info with. I'm totally blown over with your results. I used 4 different Wilson mags, used interchangeably with my Para and my PM45. I ran the whole 8 rounds without a hiccup and the slide locked open probably 9 times on empty and failed once. Other than that, I had no issues. I haven't tried my officer model size Wilson mags but I honestly gotta believe they will give the same results. I'm glad you didn't buy a Wilson mag just to have it not work. I would have felt real bad about that. I'll try to remember to try my officer size mags next trip and see how they run.

Just for the record, the Wilson I tried was an 8 round version for a full size 1911. I am not sure how old it was, it may have a different follower design than the ones you have. I am tempted to order one just for grins, I guess I could use it in my 1911 if it did not work. I would even be willing to pay the shipping to try one of yours that you have already tested ........ well, if you knew me better maybe........

-Zero-

[Mr. Zero]

:001_huh:I wonder at the dynamics of that. I have no problem getting six into a modified Metalform Officer's magazine using a Kahr follower and Kahr spring.
YouTube - Kahr CW45: flush fit, six round magazine. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_If5PMhpE28)
What is so different in the CMC mag body that would prevent it from doing the same? Could it be the follower didn't properly seat on the spring? I'd really like to know what is going on with this.


Regards to all,
Greg

Greg,

You were right to question the spring seating to the follower, I tried it again ane SHAZAM! 6 rounds fit just fine, even when I loaded a round and topped it off.

This is my answer for a flush fit magazine, I have tested it for function (feed lip geometry) so now its just the formality of range testing it for lock back and proper function with the stock follower.

****************************************

This whole thing has been keeping me up nights and I think I have discovered some answers:

The stock Kahr 6 round spring has 14 coils. These coils fit BETWEEN the front and rear follower skirt when compressed, they do not fit the tube tight front to back. The CMC mag, and probably the Colt mag as well, have 9 coils, but they are larger and fit tighter in the tube front to back. Not TIGHT, but they are big enough front to back that they do not fit between the plastic skirted follower legs.

It is not the skirt length that is causing the capacity to be low, it is the spring requirements of a plastic skirted magazine follower that are the limiting factor. More coils equal a taller spring stack when compressed, thus taking up more vertical space in the magazine tube. If you insert a stock Kahr follower into a flush fitting magazine tube without a spring, you can then insert 7 rounds on top of that follower with room to spare between the top round and the feed lips.

Therefore, it is my hypothesis that a skirted follower like the metalform steel version holds out the most hope of finding a combination that will fit flush AND hold seven rounds. The metal skirt material should be thinner than the plastic types allowing a 9 coil spring to be used and still fit up inside the skirt legs. A 9 coil spring would lesson the spring stack height when compressed and allowing 7 rounds to be loaded into the flush fitting tube.

I would love to try the combo of a Metalform steel skirted follower and a CMC or Colt 7 round spring and tube to see if it would give us what we want.
The other advantage of the Metalform metal follower (other than the skirted design) is the ability to dimple punch the metal flap that activates the slide stop if you need more hight to activate it.

Where getting close boys......

-Zero-

[wyntrout]

The Wilson Kit adds capacity to the right tube.

Coil size is THE biggy, plus the correct mating to the follower:

http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistols/3869-magazine-capacity-increase-45s.html#post36970

Wynn:)

[Bawanna]

Just for the record, the Wilson I tried was an 8 round version for a full size 1911. I am not sure how old it was, it may have a different follower design than the ones you have. I am tempted to order one just for grins, I guess I could use it in my 1911 if it did not work. I would even be willing to pay the shipping to try one of yours that you have already tested ........ well, if you knew me better maybe........

-Zero-

Thats what I was using a 8rd Wilson. I got no problem sending you down one if you want. Maybe I should try the officer model size since that is closer to what your looking for and if it works I'll send that one down. Now I gotta get out and try them again to make sure I wasn't dreaming but it was so real and life like. Even my son asked how in the heck those same mags could work in both guns.
I appears you might be onto a successful solution too.

[Mr. Zero]

Thats what I was using a 8rd Wilson. I got no problem sending you down one if you want. Maybe I should try the officer model size since that is closer to what your looking for and if it works I'll send that one down. Now I gotta get out and try them again to make sure I wasn't dreaming but it was so real and life like. Even my son asked how in the heck those same mags could work in both guns.
I appears you might be onto a successful solution too.

Thanks Bawanna, if you do a range test and find out that is wasn't a dream, let me know and we can discuss it.

-Zero-

[wyntrout]

More info and better pictures on the Wilson Combat Conversion Kit 8rd. Gov't or 7rd. COM:

http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistols/3869-magazine-capacity-increase-45s.html#post37035

You can read the text and count the coils, etc.

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

I finally posted the results of my latest range trip and magazine test:

http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistols/3869-magazine-capacity-increase-45s.html#post37182

Wynn:)

[Indigo]

Has anyone tried cutting off a coil one at a time from a Kahr spring/follower in the Mccormick mag? I'm sitting with the stuff in front of me but didn't want to destroy spring if it had been tried already

[wyntrout]

I don't have the McCormick mag to play with, but I would be leery of cutting any coils off a Kahr spring... you usually need more power to actuate the slide lock.

I mentioned trying that on my Colt Officers Model follower and spring in a Kahr 5-round mag, because I was stuffing 6 rounds in there and didn't think I need quite all of the spring, but not having any spare springs, I don't want to experiment like that. So I haven't and I don't know what you're looking to do. I just thought I would say something until someone else comes along who knows something about that... for what it's worth.
I'm hoping that Wolff will start supplying aftermarket springs for the P380 and the PM45. They have done so with the 9mm and 40 S&W... cheaper prices and faster service when you're looking to get one or several.

Wynn:)

[gb6491]

FWIW, CDNN has the Metalform Officer's magazine I used on sale for $9.99
It's on page 87 of their current catalog (viewable here: CDNN Sports, Inc. (http://www.cdnninvestments.com/) ).

As an update, my flush fit magazine has continued to perform without incident. I'm completely satisfied with it and use it as my primary magazine with Kahr OEM mags as reloads.

I also have one of the Check-Mate patented follower magazines that OldLincoln mentioned. It is indeed a captive metal follower. I haven't done any experimenting with it and probably won't; it's a very nice magazine and I plan to use it in my OACP.
Regards,
Greg

[wyntrout]

I took advantage of those prices and got a few more magazines to play with, as well as a few other things. At "$9.99 shipping for 1 to 1,000 items", I tried to get as much stuff as I might need/want.
I bought two of those stainless Officers 6-round magazines and one of the blackened stainless 7-round Officers mags.
The 6-rounders had good followers and matching springs, but the 7-rounder had a much weaker spring and it wasn't matched to the follower.
Both types of followers were similar, but the 7-rounder's had a shorter skirt which allowed the tube to hold 7 rounds. The 6-rounder would accept about 6 1/2 rounds, so the skirt length is the determining factor.
The 7-rounder's spring was way too weak to operate the PM45 slide lock. The 6-rounder springs are much stronger and seem to hold the slide back, but I had a Colt Officers 6-rounder hold the slide open until tested under actual firing, where it would not lock the slide back on empty. I expect this to be the same, but $9.99 for a stainless magazine with removable base... hard to go wrong.
of course I'll experiment a bit with these, too, trying the good spring with the shorter-skirted follower, etc., for 7 rounds capacity.
I filed just a bit off the top of the lips so that the mags snick into place, locking in easily now... less than 1mm off and then sanded them.
Pictures, of course.
Wynn:)

[Mr. Zero]

Wyntrout-

I would suggest that it is not the follower length that dictates the round count, but rather the spring stack when compressed.

Try this: remove the follower and spring from the magazine and drop in 7 rounds. Then measure the distance from the top of the last round to the top of the mag tube along the spine. I think what you will find, is that there is enough space to accommodate the follower length. Skirted mags require the spring to have more coils because they cannot go from front to back of the mag tube. When that spring coil is compressed it is taller, thus, 6 rounds instead of 7.

[camsden1]

I have been following this post and today I decided to get involved. I found a MegGar magazine with a formed metal follower. It is not a split metal follower but a solid but formed follower. I made a pattern of the top of the Kahr magazine and transferred it to the MegGar magazine. Using the dremel tool I made the top of the magazine as close as possible to the Kahr magazine. I also made sure that the magazine didn't hit the follower when the slide moved. I cycled the slide and made small adjustments until I was satisfied. I loaded the magazine and loaded the first round into the chamber with no problems, I then cycled the slide until the last round was gone and the slide locked open as it is supposed to do. I am going to go out and field test it tomorrow and I wil post my results.

camsden

[phred]

Is the MegGar mag a 6 or 7 round mag?

[wyntrout]

Wyntrout-

I would suggest that it is not the follower length that dictates the round count, but rather the spring stack when compressed.

Try this: remove the follower and spring from the magazine and drop in 7 rounds. Then measure the distance from the top of the last round to the top of the mag tube along the spine. I think what you will find, is that there is enough space to accommodate the follower length. Skirted mags require the spring to have more coils because they cannot go from front to back of the mag tube. When that spring coil is compressed it is taller, thus, 6 rounds instead of 7.

Look at my pictures. I have experimented with all kinds of combinations of followers and springs with these magazines. The tubes are all the same... length and number of holes. The big difference is the length of the skirt. The six-rounder's skirt is about .4" longer and bottoms out leaving about 6 1/2 rounds capacity. Switching to the shorter skirt allows 7 rounds in all of the tubes. The tubes have observation holes for 7 rounds in all versions.

The shorter skirted follower and the matching spring allow 6 rounds in the 5-round Kahr and 7 in the 6-round Kahr, but the spring design doesn't have enough lift at the front of the follower to reliably operate the slide lock in the Kahr pistol, especially during firing.
The plastic Kahr follower takes up a lot of space and the narrower(front to rear) spring allow one less round capacity.
The the top part of the good springs is mated to the follower. The length of the springs coils and correct mating top of the spring holds the follower in place.

In another post I tried the Wilson Combat kit that increases capacity from six to seven in the officer's model magazines. This skirted plastic follower won't work in the Kahr magazines because the front part of the skirt is too short in the front.

Link to that (as soon as I find it):

http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistols/3869-magazine-capacity-increase-45s.html#post36945

Wynn:)

[camsden1]

It is a 6 round officers magazine.

camsden

[camsden1]

I got a chance to go out and play today. The modified MegGar magazine for my CW45 performed perfectly. It fed well and locked the slide back on an empty magazine just as it should. I ran 10 mags thru it and consider it a complete sucess and I am going to buy another one for modification as soon as I can.

camsden

[gb6491]

I got a chance to go out and play today. The modified MegGar magazine for my CW45 performed perfectly. It fed well and locked the slide back on an empty magazine just as it should. I ran 10 mags thru it and consider it a complete sucess and I am going to buy another one for modification as soon as I can.

camsden
Excellent report camsden!
Please post photos of your modified magazine and it's follower.
Regards,
Greg

[camsden1]

Here come the pictures, hope they came out clear.

[gb6491]

Here come the pictures, hope they came out clear.
The photos are good to go; thanks for posting them:)
I saw that follower on an ACT-MAG Officer's magazine when I ordered the Checkmate magazine from Top Gun Supply. I was going to order one but they were out of stock (still are): ACT-MAG 1911 Officers .45 ACP 7rd magazine - BLUE - Top Gun Supply (http://www.topgunsupply.com/act-mag-1911-officers-45-acp-7rd-magazine-blue.html)
They have nickel versions of the Mec-Gar you are using in stock. Do you have a source for the blued version?
Regards,
Greg

[camsden1]

I just have a local dealer that usually stocks them. They are around
$18.00 each.

[wyntrout]

CDNN has the Nickel and the blued Mec-Gar Officers 6-rounders for $13.99 each. The shipping is $9.99 for all that you order, so load up.
Officers 45acp 6rd Blue Mag New Mec-Gar (http://www.cdnninvestments.com/of456rdblmag.html)

I wish I had gotten a few of these to play with, too. I would like to see the follower alone, outside the tube. Maybe its skirt(s) can be shortened a bit to give 7 rounds capacity. The tube is the same as the colt and Metal Form ones... observation holes for 7 rounds, too.

Wynn:)

[gb6491]

Thanks camsden1.


CDNN has the Nickel and the blued Mec-Gar Officers 6-rounders for $13.99 each. The shipping is $9.99 for all that you order, so load up.
Officers 45acp 6rd Blue Mag New Mec-Gar (http://www.cdnninvestments.com/of456rdblmag.html)
Wynn:)
Thanks Wynn!:)
Regards,
Greg

[wyntrout]

It's hard to shop for these things over the Internet. Often they show the magazines loaded and you can't see what the followers look like. Those Mec-Gar have skirted front and rear metal followers.

I had some trouble with the 7-round converted ones today. Failures to feed and to go into battery. A few got skinned... one round so bad that it's a throwaway... couldn't even chamber it to fire it. The case rim caught on the chamber rim, I guess, and got pulled back. That just happened on the short-skirted ones... the Black Colt Officers 7-round and the one six-rounder I had converted with a short-skirted follower, but mated springs on both. It happened repeatedly on the third round and in the black one, several times more in a row on the same mag-full.

I'll have to look at the chamber and maybe polish it some, but it could be the angle of presentation with the magazine... or the spring....

The un-modified COM-6 rounders worked fine. I had a few slides locked back on empty, but that was kind of rare.

I fired off 250 rounds, less 6, in the PM45 and about 30 out of the P380... mostly fun. :D

Wynn:w00t::53:

[sonofodin]

Still waiting for Kahr to admit that since they sell guns for CCW purposes that flush fit mags might be a good idea. I know I know bawanna....some things are just too much to ask for.....

[wyntrout]

Every chance I get, I put in a request for reasonable things that they have for most models... flush-fitting metal bases for the .45 magazines, a K45, an extended-grip, higher capacity .380 magazine, and ported barrels for all models... and maybe some threaded ones, too... nothing that they haven't done for other models/calibers.

Wynn:)

[camsden1]

I was trying to find another Meg-Gar clip to modify and I could not find one. I did come across a 7 round Colt magazine very reasonable . The original spring was to weak to hold the slide open so i put in a longer spring from another magazine. After modifing the clip to fit and clear the extractor the magazine works and locks the slide back. Here is my issue though, when I rack the slide by hand to eject shells it works great until I get to the last one and it is a bear to get iti to extact. Any ideas on this?

camsden:confused:

[gb6491]

Here is my issue though, when I rack the slide by hand to eject shells it works great until I get to the last one and it is a bear to get iti to extact. Any ideas on this?

camsden:confused:
That was my experience as well with the Devel/McCormick style follower.
I believe the tip of the follower is getting up behind the case as it is being extracted. Removing some material from the the front of the follower might fix this, but this style follower moves around so much I didn't feel it was worth the effort (see posts 27, 47, 48, and 50 for others experience with this style follower).
Regards,
Greg

[94zcar]

Very Nice!! I'd love to find a magazine like that for my CW9.

[0311Hoosier]

Hey all!

I just wanted to report that today, at the NRA range, one of my modified MecGar mags blew the welds and dumped spring and ammo out onto the ground.

I was so pissed, not to mentioned slightly embarrassed.

Is there any way to "beef up" the remainder of the mags that I have? They only welded the things twice on each side of the base, and during firing, they had enough and blew out.

Suggestions?

[gb6491]

Hey all!

I just wanted to report that today, at the NRA range, one of my modified MecGar mags blew the welds and dumped spring and ammo out onto the ground.

I was so pissed, not to mentioned slightly embarrassed.

Is there any way to "beef up" the remainder of the mags that I have? They only welded the things twice on each side of the base, and during firing, they had enough and blew out.

Suggestions?
Sorry to hear of your misfortune with the one magazine. MecGar generally has a sterling reputation for making quality products. Suspecting this magazine to be an anomaly, I'd be inclined to think you would not have any problems with the remaining magazines from them; besides, I really can't think of any way to beef them up.
FWIW, CDNN has the stainless version of the Metalform magazine I used when I posted this modification on sale for $9.99
http://www.cdnninvestments.com/co19of456rds.html
This magazines has the sides folded under to secure the base:
http://i51.tinypic.com/2pzzdyv.jpg
Regards,
Greg

[0311Hoosier]

Thanks Greg! You know, I should have picked up the ones with the folded bottoms the first time. All of the ones I have work perfectly, but then the bottom fell out! I hope it doesn't happen again.

I purchased 2 of those mags just now, and I'll mod them when they arrive!

-0311

[Jarhead]

Up until about 2 years ago Wilson Combat made a .45 1911 "Sentinel" that was about 5/8" shorter than an Officer's size frame... I no longer have a PM45, but I believe Wilson still carries the ultra short 6-round in stock and it should be about the size of a PM45 magazine? I have some Wilson Sentinel mags left if anyone wants to know any particular dimensions of the mags...

[LSP972]

Seems to me we're mixing the P45 and PM45 set-ups in this thread.

To the OP; great work, many thanks, and I have a few questions.

If I'm reading you correctly, you got the best results with the blued 7 round Colt Officer's model mags, and replaced the issue follower with the Kahr follower by removing/re-installing followers through the feed lips of the Colt mag?

I hope that's right... because I ordered a pair of those mags from CDNN this morning, along with the stainless 6 rounder with removeable floor plate just for good measure.

I scored a NIB P45 yesterday, and the first thought in my head after handling it was... "This thing needs a flush carry magazine."

And here I find this thread. I was going to try to cut the body off and weld a new floor plate onto the issue Kahr magazine. This method looks to be a lot less painful...

.

[gb6491]

Seems to me we're mixing the P45 and PM45 set-ups in this thread.

To the OP; great work, many thanks, and I have a few questions.

If I'm reading you correctly, you got the best results with the blued 7 round Colt Officer's model mags, and replaced the issue follower with the Kahr follower by removing/re-installing followers through the feed lips of the Colt mag?

I hope that's right... because I ordered a pair of those mags from CDNN this morning, along with the stainless 6 rounder with removeable floor plate just for good measure.

I scored a NIB P45 yesterday, and the first thought in my head after handling it was... "This thing needs a flush carry magazine."

And here I find this thread. I was going to try to cut the body off and weld a new floor plate onto the issue Kahr magazine. This method looks to be a lot less painful...

.
LSP972.
Welcome to the forums and congrats on the P45:)
Yes, the combination that works best for me is a modified Officer's magazine body with a Kahr follower and spring. I have had nary an issue with this combination. Capacity is six rounds, but it feeds flawlessly and locks the slide back. The Kahr follower and spring are indeed installed through the feed lips of the modified magazine:
http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=35268&postcount=14
Regards,
Greg

[LSP972]

Excellent.

Thanks for the response. Did you use a regular sanding drum, or one of the specific metal-cutting drums, or what, to re-shape the magazine upper area?

.

[gb6491]

I used files and an aluminum oxide drum on my Dremel, but anything that removes metal should work. Just work carefully around the feed lips and the magazine latch window (if it needs adjustment).
Regards,
Greg

[LSP972]

An aluminum oxide drum is what I was planning to employ.

I am curious about one thing: your photos show a radical re-shaping of the front top edge. Is that to accomodate the Kahr follower?

.

[gb6491]

An aluminum oxide drum is what I was planning to employ.

I am curious about one thing: your photos show a radical re-shaping of the front top edge. Is that to accomodate the Kahr follower?

.
Are you referring to this photo?
http://i56.tinypic.com/345c3ns.jpg
If so, these magazines are from different manufacturers; thus the different front profiles. The magazine on the right is the Metalform I used for the conversion, but only the top edges of it have been modified as illustrated on the left in this photo:
http://i55.tinypic.com/2w7ebfa.jpg
The top photo was meant to show approximately how much material I removed from the modified magazine in comparison to a stock Officer's magazine.
Regards,
Greg

[Bawanna]

Up until about 2 years ago Wilson Combat made a .45 1911 "Sentinel" that was about 5/8" shorter than an Officer's size frame... I no longer have a PM45, but I believe Wilson still carries the ultra short 6-round in stock and it should be about the size of a PM45 magazine? I have some Wilson Sentinel mags left if anyone wants to know any particular dimensions of the mags...

That must have been similar to the Detonics, can't remember the model but it had a short magazine also.
Like to stick one in a PM45 and see how it fits.

[LSP972]

Thanks, gb, that answered my question.

I couldn't stand it, and fired its first three rounds into the water tank today.

Tomorrow after work, I'll put the first 100 or so break-in rounds through it. The magazines should be here by week's end.

.

[LSP972]

Mags are here. Going to finish the break-in rounds Saturday... then I'll start whittling.

125 rounds of full power factory ball through this pistol, in about half an hour, is NOT fun. 125 more to go, then I can start tweaking a light practice reload.

.

[LSP972]

Made the magazine tonight. It feeds dummy rounds flawlessly, slide locks back, so far so good. We'll see if it works for real.

Over 500 rounds through the pistol so far. After 250 flawless rounds of factory ball, I put another 250 various reloads through it. It doesn't like SWC bullets, probably due to steep feed ramp angle. But it gobbled up ALL the 230 FMJ ball bullet loads I tried, including some very light ones that were quite pleasant to shoot.

I hope this magazine works... it makes a substantial difference in the concealability, I think.

.

[LSP972]

Well, by gum, it works. I ran 50 reloads through it yesterday at work... light practice loads that it seemed to like during the "break-in". Nary a burp...

I will shoot this mag a lot more before trusting it fully, but so far, so good.

Kudoes to the OP for the idea and detailed text/photos. If you carry your P45 (or want to), this project is well worth the small investment of resources and time. Carried IWB under a T shirt, the flush magazine makes a difference. How much of a difference for YOU depends on many factors, of course.

I worked on the mag catch slot with needle files, and trimmed down the mag lips on a disc sander, then used a piece of crocus cloth to clean them up. Took about an hour, total.

I only used the D-tool for the "notch" at the bottom of the front strap, to clear the mag lip. I intend to grind a similar semi-circular notch on each side panel, so I can get both forefinger and thumb on the mag to rip it out if necessary; double-feeds really lock this particular pistol up tighter than ****'s hat band. While it has only done it with cast lead SWC reloads, which I would never use other than in practice, if I'm going to carry this pistol (infrequently, but nonetheless) I need to be prepared for the worst.

Anyway... a quick, easy project.

[gb6491]

Nice report LSP972!:)
It looks like the Officer's magazine fits closer to the bottom of the frame in your P45 than it does in my CW45. I like the cut out that you did in the front strap (BTW: excellent work).
Regards,
Greg

[LSP972]

Yeah, I ruined the first mag. The catch wouldn't fully engage, and I continued to remove metal from the catch notch until I snapped to the fact that the lip was hitting the bottom edge of the front strap and stopping any further upward movement. By that time, of course, I had enlarged the notch 'way too much. Oh, well... that's why I ordered two.:biggrin1:

This also gives you a place insert a fingernail and strip the mag out if needed, but the side cut-outs will be more positive for this. The mag drops out easily when empty, but a double feed locks it in place pretty solid.

The light reloads make this a very pleasant little pistol to shoot. There are those who say that one MUST only practice with his carry load to "be real"... that's a load of crap. But far be it from me to go counter to I-experts...:rolleyes:

.

[Catshooter]

Gentlemen,

Do we have any updates? Inquiring minds ya know . . .



Cat

[JackDRipper]

I bought three stainless Metalform magazines from CDNN for $9.99 each to use in my cw45 two weeks ago. Looks like CDNN has raised these mags to $14.99 now. I ground down the tops a little and installed Kahr springs and followers in two of the three magazines. The two "kahr" magazines functioned 100% and locked back the slide when empty. The other magazine also fed 100% and locked the slide back about 50% of the time. I'm real happy with these converted magazines and glad I ran across this thread. Don't know why Kahr doesn't make a metal based mag for the 45. I also included a kahr mag that I have ground down the plastic base and finger rest some. My CW45 has been 100% so far and is a great gun!
JR
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v415/JackDRipper/IMG_1373.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v415/JackDRipper/IMG_1374.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v415/JackDRipper/IMG_1375.jpg

[wyntrout]

If you want to try to blacken the base, you might try the Presto "Gun Blue" pen for aluminum and other metals besides plain steel. I just got the regular one, but I know they have the other, too. It would require touching up for wear now and then, but it's not like using a Sharpie, which just wipes off.

Wynn:)

[gb6491]

Excellent post JackDRipperhttp://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/happy/thumbsup.gif


Gentlemen,
Do we have any updates? Inquiring minds ya know . . .
Cat
Nary a problem with mine and it's been the primary magazine for my CW45 going on seven months now.:)

Regards,
Greg

[gb6491]

Here's a quick video I shot the other day while killing some time at the range. It's of the CW45 with a modified Officer's magazine. I'm shooting it with my off hand. If you have the volume up some, you can hear my buddy drop the hammer on an empty chamber in the rifle he was shooting then mumble to himself about it:).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HibsulReymc
Regards,
Greg

[JackDRipper]

I shot 43 more rounds in my CW45 and modified Officer's magazines on Saturday with 100% function.
JR

[LSP972]

Mine is a modified Colt Officer's Model magazine. I shoot it every range session, have maybe 200+ flawless rounds through the gun with this mag.

I now use this piece every night for a "walking gun". I change into shorts and T-shirt when I get home from work, and unstrap my normal EDC in the process. When its time to do the nightly walk, I just grab the P45, an extra Kahr mag, the E1B, and my walking stick.

I have confidence in the pistol and modified magazine; enough so that I wouldn't hesitate to carry it every day, ALL day, if need be. But the HK45C carries so well, I have no plan to put it aside.

The P45 makes a perfect piece for when I need to leave the house but don't want to mess with strapping up a holster, etc. This thing was MADE for mexican carry...

.

[Ljutic]

Recently picked up a Metalform Officers for a new Officers model 1911. For some reason the gun won't work with the magazine. So, I'm glad I found this post so I can still put the mag to good use. I'm concerned about the follower causing issues with the frame so I'll probably use it as a flush 6 rounder with Kahr spring and follower vs. a flush 7 rounder with stock spring and follower. Also, I may have a different mag model than gb6491. My base plate isn't wrapped by the mag tube and my base plate has much different stamping.

Started the shaping by hand, but think I'll have to get the Dremel involved before I'm done with this project.

[Ljutic]

Also picked up a factory Colt and Kimber mag for Officer sized 1911s. Colt fits perfectly on the mag release, but needs work on the feed lips. Kimber also locks in perfectly, but it too needs some work on the feed lips. Have a couple of Wilson 47OXCBs on the way so I will see how they fit.

[Ljutic]

This gets really interesting if you have a bunch of .45 mags laying around. ACT-Mag 8 rounders fit perfectly with no modification. ACT-Mag 7 rounders which appear to be exact clones of the 8 rounders but built for Officer sized guns will bind on the slide.

[Ljutic]

Well, I'm almost done. I just need to get a new Presto Instant blue pen to do some touch-ups. For some reason the pen I've had for 15 years was dried up. :p

I got this mag at Midway last week so it looks like Metalform has changed the base plates recently.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/BDSBruce/Wireless/bbebb319.jpg

I'm not sure about the quality of the Metalform mags. I know STI ships them with their 9mm Spartans, but this is the spring that came out of my 45 mag. I've never seen one this twisted and the extra bend was a bit of a surprise.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/BDSBruce/Wireless/74b10d38.jpg

It turned out well and even installing the Kahr follower was easy after viewing the video. Thanks very much for all the details. I'm still going to try a non-Kahr follower at some point to see if I can make a 7 rounder out of this, but for now I'm ready to start testing.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/BDSBruce/Wireless/6f5f159a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/BDSBruce/Wireless/dc6619e6.jpg

[gb6491]

Ljutic,
Excellent posts and photos; thanks for sharing them.
I think your observation about the Metalform magazines is spot on.
I was just at their website and it seems that they have dropped the folded over style magazine base. The spring that came in the magazine I used from them would not have been my first choice if making magazines myself, but it did perform adequately in the brief time that I used it. However, the tube seems to be of excellent quality.
They sure don't make them Presto bluing pens like they used to:D
Regards,
Greg

[Bawanna]

I have two presto blue pens that are at least that old and they still work!

Maybe you just used em up? Maybe call Birchwood and tell them your 15 year old pens gave up on ya.

Just can't get stuff that last these days.

[Cash.45]

Great original and follow-up "how I did it" posts and pictures. I have to admit that before I saw your post I hadn't even considered this, but once I saw your photos I knew I had to do this. Just finished my first stainless steel Metalform mag and it functions perfectly on the bench. Now it's off to the range tomorrow to give it a real test.

This flush fit mag is going to improve my carry comfort and concealability. Thanks for the great posts!

[Ljutic]

Just got an email from Midway to let me know the Wilson Officer Size mag rebuild kits are available. I'm going to try that in my butchered Metalform and see if it works. They also have Presto Gun Blue pens so I'm replacing my 15 year old dried up one. Unfortunately, they are out of the black Metalform Officer size mags. Always one thing you need they don't have at the moment.

[gb6491]

We had a new member post how he is doing this mod in another thread; it's excellent info so I thought I'd copy and paste his input here for future reference:

from one of my other posts...
1911 mags will run in a Kahr 45, better actually than the Kahr mags that are what 45 bucks? I started with inexpensive Springfield factory compact mags that I bought for around $20, (let me know if you need some) just standard Metalform style officer stuff, then removed the follower, trimmed an 1/8" off the tail so I could barely stuff the 7th round in with the slide open to make it easier for 6+1 carry....and take a belt sander or file to the little bump. The nose of the follower needs tweeked slightly down as to not hang up the slide.
next around .100" of the feed lip at the most forward highest edge needs removed on the right side to clear the ejector...on the left side .030" needs to be removed to clear the slide rail. strip & remove the barrel the re install the slide, & mag & you'll see instantly what I mean. I can literally modify these mags in in minutes. The result will be a better functioning mag, steel flush mag floor plate that will except a proper bump if need be thats not finicky (I cant get mine to stop running now) that can still inter chance with a officer 1911 & no cheap plastic mag floor plate that would break if hit right on a hard floor & be USELESS. After alot of measuring & checking cw45 has a really tight chamber with steep sharp leade. This prevents the use of some (Hornady 200grn XTP- my favorite load) from chambering fully- and locks 'er up tight if tried. So Im using Winchester 185 silvertips & Federal 185 JHC with good results as the bullets ogive is seated closer to the case mouth. Lastly, the extension tail on the bottom of the slide that strips rounds from the mag, needs re-contoured & polished smooth, the dang thing is so sharp that it will plow brass from the top cartridge in the mag- especially with the overly strong spring of the Kahr Mag- if you keep it do yourself a favor & trim a coil off the spring.
http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=67816&postcount=43

[Ljutic]

I finally got my Wilson mag rebuild kit and my Presto blue pen this week so I finished up my project and gave it a good shake down at the range today. I'm incredibly happy to report flawless performance from the magazine through a box of target hardball and half a box of Fed Expanding FMJ 200 grain +P. I knew both of these ammos worked 100% in the gun so I didn't want to introduce any additional variables.

I'll be making a few more of these soon. Even with gutting the Metalform magazine and buying the rebuild kit, it's still just $23 to make one and you get the benefits of an extra round and last round slide lock back in a much more flush fitting magazine.

Thanks for all the tips and tricks along the way. The only caution I will throw into the mix is to make sure you get the rebuild kit pictured since it's specifically for the Metalform magazine.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/BDSBruce/Wireless/0fa83c68.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/BDSBruce/Wireless/ea07e3a1.jpg

[gb6491]

Excellent info Ljutic, thanks for sharing it!:)
FWIW, my modified magazine and my CW45 are trooping right along with nary a hiccup. I really like this package.:80:
Regards,
Greg

[LSP972]

FWIW, my modified magazine and my CW45 are trooping right along with nary a hiccup. I really like this package.


Ditto my P45. I have over 500 flawless rounds of my reloads, factory ball, and HST through it now, and will making another one as soon as I get around to ordering the appropriate follower & spring from Kahr.

Thanks again for the idea; it makes a huge difference in the gun's concealability.

.

[DinoCrayon]

I bought a Kimber Kimpro Tacmag 7rd and it fits fine inside my CW45 even locks back when I rack the slide on it empty. Do I still need to modify this at all?

[gb6491]

If the slide clears it as is, I'd go give it a test spin and proceed from there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EBWZvFBeUY
Given that Kahr magazines can sometimes contact the slide (as seen in the video), similar contact from an Officer's magazine probably should not be problematic.
Regards,
Greg

[DinoCrayon]

As-is the extractor moves slightly (smothly outward--out of the way, not upwards) when closing the slide. Would this cause harm in the long run? That video shows the extractor dragging on the unmodified mag.

[gb6491]

As-is the extractor moves slightly (smothly outward--out of the way, not upwards) when closing the slide. Would this cause harm in the long run? That video shows the extractor dragging on the unmodified mag.
As long it mimics what happens with a Kahr magazine in place I imagine it will probably work. I don't believe the extractor moved with the Kahr magazine in place when I shot that video (I don't think it appears to when reviewing the video as well). I do think that movement of the extractor caused by a magazine would not be a good thing.
Regards,
Greg

[phred]

I bought a Kimber Kimpro Tacmag 7rd and it fits fine inside my CW45 even locks back when I rack the slide on it empty. Do I still need to modify this at all?
I carry a KimPro 8 rounder as a spare mag. The only thing I did was remove a little bit of material so that the extractor did not make contact with the top of the mag. The stock sping and follower in my KimPro mag work great. I've had no feed problems with it and it locks the slide back when its empty.

[mbogo]

This is a very helpful and timely thread. I just bought a CW45, and blanch at the prospect of paying $40 for an OEM Kahr mag.

mbogo

[Ljutic]

Midway has the mags and spring/follower kits back in stock. I got the stuff to make 3 more mags for $74.00 delivered. Not a bad deal for a flush fit +1 magazine. Now I will have a few to play with.

[gb6491]

This is a very helpful and timely thread. I just bought a CW45, and blanch at the prospect of paying $40 for an OEM Kahr mag.

mbogo
Welcome to the forums mbogo:)
Regards,
Greg

[Ljutic]

Interesting side note. I got my stuff from Midway today and two of the three Wilson mag rebuild kits were doubled with 2 springs and two followers in each bag. The third kit just had one spring and follower. I love Midway. Always a surprise and most of the time it's in your favor and if it's not, they will make it right.

[iajtywu]

I got the MetalForm Mags and the wilson follower and spring kit. I was able to get them working right (7 rounds with lockup) until replaced my slide stop spring with a new one from Kahr. I think the new one is just tight enough to hold the follower down. I'm able to get it working about 50% of the time now after messing around with the screw holding down the spring. I'm hoping after I get some shots through the gun with the new spring it will loosen up.
So if your having issues with your slide locking back you might try adjusting the tension on the spring. ;) I'm a big fan of the flush fit mag with an extra round. Great Trick!

[jgullock]

Hey guys,

I tried the mag upgrade with the Wilson kit and slide lock would happen maybe 50% of the time. I got a heavier spring that seemed to increase lock occurrences but that cut my total rounds down to 6 due to more spring taking up space. I started messing around with other components I had laying around and found that the 7 round officers Metalform mags (and Chip McCormick stainless 7 round officers mags) along with Checkmate follower/spring kit 10017 ($12.17 each) works like a charm. If I have an empty mag inserted in the gun it is extremly hard to release the slide with your thumb - big time spring pressure - and have not had one failure to lock. I have three McCormick mags done and I have another 3 Checkmate kits coming in for the Metalforms.

P.S. - I only had to do the standard grinding off a little metal on the top of the mag, didn't have to mess with the mag locking slot at all.

[gb6491]

jgullock,
Welcome to the forums:)
Excellent first post, thanks for the info on the Checkmate kit!
If possible, would you please post a photo of the Checkmate follower?
Regards,
Greg

[jgullock]

Here you go:

http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss238/Onufriyenko/reviews/Check-Mate/Check-Mate011.jpg

PS - Dumb me didn't realize I could embed from that link.

[mbogo]

Welcome to the forums mbogo:)
Regards,
Greg

Thanks,
Greg

[mbogo]

Well, I just modified four KimPro Officer's mags in 15 minutes, including polishing the edges(Thank God for Dremel tools :D).

Mags fit (without having to modify the mag latch notches), and the slide locks back on an empty mag.

Function testing is next.

mbogo

[gb6491]

jgullock,
Thanks for posting that photo:)


Well, I just modified four KimPro Officer's mags in 15 minutes, including polishing the edges(Thank God for Dremel tools :D).

Mags fit (without having to modify the mag latch notches), and the slide locks back on an empty mag.

Function testing is next.

mbogo

Thanks for the update; I look forward to reading how the function test goes.

Regards,
Greg

[FHBrumb]

So........

Are most "compact" 45 acorn mags good for this?

[mbogo]

What is an 'acorn mag'?

mbogo

[FHBrumb]

Very good question. Acorn is what my phone corrected acp to, as it assumed I was wanting to spell something. It's not up to speed on acronyms...

Sorry for the confusion...

I was trying to ask if "compact" is what I'm looking for? As opposed to "Officer".

I also can't help but wonder if the AMT Back Up mags will fit in a PM 45.

[phred]

Very good question. Acorn is what my phone corrected acp to, as it assumed I was wanting to spell something. It's not up to speed on acronyms...

Sorry for the confusion...

I was trying to ask if "compact" is what I'm looking for? As opposed to "Officer".

I also can't help but wonder if the AMT Back Up mags will fit in a PM 45.
If this is for a CW45 or P45, you need "officer" mags. Compact mags will be too short.

[CJB]

I also can't help but wonder if the AMT Back Up mags will fit in a PM 45.

I seem to recall the Detonics mag was shorter than the Officer's mag... not finding too many of those lately. I thought I had one still.... cant find it.

[FHBrumb]

Ok, thanks.

[gb6491]

Officer's ACP, New Agent, Defender, Compact, are all monikers for 1911 style pistols that have a frame about .5" ( one less round) shorter in height than the Government/Commander size frame. They all use the same size magazine and that is the size used for a flush fit in the CW45/P45.

PigButtons has posted some info in regards to using a Detonics magazine in the PM45: http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?p=16542

Regards,
Greg

[wyntrout]

Officer's magazines are about 1/2" too long in a PM45, but can give you 6 or 7 shots in a more compact magazine than the Kahr 6-round PM45 magazine with the extended grip. You still have to find one that will hold the slide back on empty, if that's a concern other than just feeding 100% for CCW. 7+1 is possible with an O7.
I'm still looking for the one I consider reliable enough, though. I've tried 7 or 8 different brands with all kinds of springs and followers.
I just went to the range a few days ago after fiddling with a CM follower in several mag tubes until I finally broke the follower. They don't last long if you compress and un-compress the CheckMate "new patented follower". I broke the one in the CM Officer's SS-7rd. I still have to evaluate my notes and see what came closest this last trip, AND post results of my 230-gr .45 acp Gold Dots and GD Short Barreled version in my PM45 and my SA Champion 4".
Got to run now.

Wynn:)

Wynn

[RogerP9fan]

Wow, what a fascinating thread. Seems like most of us would like the flush baseplates for our CW45s. Myself, I just ordered my new CW45 and I'm coming back to Kahr after almost a year away. Gotta give Kahr another shot, there's just too much to like about these pistols. (Ordered a CM9 too).
I'm trying to take in the vast amount of information here regarding the alternative magazines for the CW45 that will provide the flush baseplate. The OP seems to have a great workable solution. Videos and all, it's terrific. However, not TOO great for someone like me.....I'm just strictly a firearms enthusiast / end-user with no Dremel tool, files or experience altering magazines or firearms.

[mbogo]

Roger,

I'm not particularly mechanically inclined, but it literally took me five minutes to do the first KimPro magazine. Remove a bit of metal, check for clearance of the slide, remove a bit of metal, check...

The first one takes the most time; after it gets quicker.

mbogo

[RogerP9fan]

I'm starting to realize this the more I look at the OP's pictures and videos.
Question: What kind of file do I buy? A regular hand held file? Do I need to buy a Dremel machine?

Thanks.

[mbogo]

A mill bastard file (available at Sears, Home Depot, Harbor Freight, Ace Hardware, et al.) will work. A Dremel tool will work much faster, but you will have to be careful not to remove more metal than needed.

mbogo

[Ljutic]

Wow, what a fascinating thread. Seems like most of us would like the flush baseplates for our CW45s. Myself, I just ordered my new CW45 and I'm coming back to Kahr after almost a year away. Gotta give Kahr another shot, there's just too much to like about these pistols. (Ordered a CM9 too).
I'm trying to take in the vast amount of information here regarding the alternative magazines for the CW45 that will provide the flush baseplate. The OP seems to have a great workable solution. Videos and all, it's terrific. However, not TOO great for someone like me.....I'm just strictly a firearms enthusiast / end-user with no Dremel tool, files or experience altering magazines or firearms.

All enthusiasts should have a Dremel and a set of needle files. Once you have them, you will be amazed at how handy they can be for shooting gear or 1000's of other projects abound the home. You will end up getting these essentials at some point, so why not get them now?

[wyntrout]

In the manner of Tim "The Tool Man" Taylor, with a Dremel, or Dremel-Like Tool (DLT), you can destroy stuff a lot faster. It can literally "smoke" polymer at 20-30K RPM!
Yeeha! More Power!

Wynn:D

[RogerP9fan]

Good tips guys, thanks.......Question: What if I have to trim that magazine latch notch on the magazine, which tool is best used for that?

Another question: Of all the "Officer 1911" mags to choose from, which do you think most closely matches the Kahr P45 magazine so that I don't have to touch the magazine latch notch?

[mbogo]

I did not have to tweak the KimPro mag latch notches at all.

mbogo

[RogerP9fan]

Oh good. Excuse me if I don't remember your work but did you have to trim metal from the top of the magazine on the KimPro? Having functional success?

Seems like the OP and others have had great success with the Metalform mag bodies and Kahr follower/mag spring combination.

I would like my slide to stay open after the final round to prevent possible damage to the gun long term.

[Ljutic]

I used a flat needle file on the mag latch window. It only took a few passes.

The metalform mag bodies have changed during the life of this thread and old and new style do work. My personal choice was the Wilson spring and follower because it does actuate the slide stop at last round, gives room for 7 rounds in the magazine, and I don't need to worry about the plastic follower gouging my plastic frame. The only thing I don't like about my flush mag is that it's noisy. The cartridges rattle around in the mag when carrying. I'm going to try a Kimber mag body on my next build. Spring and follower will still be Wilson.

The stock Kahr follower only allows for a mag capacity of 6.

[gb6491]

I used a flat needle file on the mag latch window. It only took a few passes...
+1 on the needle file.
Regards,
Greg

[RogerP9fan]

I used a flat needle file on the mag latch window. It only took a few passes.

The metalform mag bodies have changed during the life of this thread and old and new style do work. My personal choice was the Wilson spring and follower because it does actuate the slide stop at last round, gives room for 7 rounds in the magazine, and I don't need to worry about the plastic follower gouging my plastic frame. The only thing I don't like about my flush mag is that it's noisy. The cartridges rattle around in the mag when carrying. I'm going to try a Kimber mag body on my next build. Spring and follower will still be Wilson.

The stock Kahr follower only allows for a mag capacity of 6.Thanks for sharing those good points. Was that the Wilson OXC (seven round officer's magazine) you're referring to? Others have had good luck with that one here in this thread but I certainly wouldn't wanna be rattling while walking around. lol We try our best to hide the gun from sight, never thinking we have to hide it from earshot too! lol I know you really want that extra round and you're striving for it. Keep us posted, please. For me, as of right now, I'll probably be gathering up everything for the OPs configuration. I just intuitively feel more confident with the Kahr spring and Kahr follower (even though I'm certainly no expert on this subject)

[newkahrowner]

i just purchased a chip mc cormic part number 14120 7 round mag for the 1911 and from what i could see needs minimal trimming to get the slide to operate correctly and it is a 7 round magazine.
I didnt read every post here so has anyone tried this mag? im on the road so i will file it tomorrow and post a report asap.

[gb6491]

i just purchased a chip mc cormic part number 14120 7 round mag for the 1911 and from what i could see needs minimal trimming to get the slide to operate correctly and it is a 7 round magazine.
I didnt read every post here so has anyone tried this mag? im on the road so i will file it tomorrow and post a report asap.
There are some posts by Mr. Zero and nwohsy in regards to the Chip McCormick magazines. They seem to fit and function, but the internals did not lock the slide back. Using Kahr springs and followers will knock the capacity down to 6 rounds, but will lock the slide back. You can find the posts by searching for "Chip" using the thread tools near the top of the page.:)
Regards,
Greg

[newkahrowner]

i read the yellow card it came with and said and i quote lol"if pistol fails to lock open on the last shot, check the slide stop lobe length (.195" minimum)
Some slide stops with dimples where the plunger hole contacts need polished or replaced.) But in my case the slide locks back when racking and goes to battery super easy. so when i shoot it ill let you know.

[FHBrumb]

I tried this with some Metalform mags, with encouraging results. I had to reduce the height in front of the feed lips a tiny amount. I also had to raise the notch for the mag catch just a bit. The slide would lock open following the last shot, and feeding was good with WWB. I had issues with PDX1, but by that time the pistol was pretty dirty. It was at the end of 120 rounds. Even WWB and Kahr mags had issues the last little bit.

[newkahrowner]

well i shot the cw45 with the new flush fit mag. several mags worth of 45 acp and no such problem not locking the slide back! im a maintenance man by trade and i figured out why it doesnt, made an adjustment and i had no problems!

[gb6491]

FHBrumb and newkahrowner,
Thanks for posting your experiences with the modifications. It's very good info and is sure to help others interested in going forward with a flush fit magazine.


well i shot the cw45 with the new flush fit mag. several mags worth of 45 acp and no such problem not locking the slide back! im a maintenance man by trade and i figured out why it doesnt, made an adjustment and i had no problems!
newkahrowner,
Would you mind explaining what adjustment you made?
I imagine it will prove useful to someone down the road and I'd certainly appreciate knowing how you "got-er-done":)
Regards,
Greg

[newkahrowner]

with the chip mccormac mac. it has the metal follower. i noticed wile racking the slide, the reason it doesnt lock the slide back is because the follwer stays to the rear of the magazine. i removed it and bent the back of it that rides on the magazine keeping it to the front of the magazine hence locking the slide back. i had to adjust a few other things because doing this mod effects the way the round sits so i adjusted accordingly and it works fine and you do not have to do the slingshot method to chamber the first round, it just slides right on in since it sits so high.

[Ljutic]

with the chip mccormac mac. it has the metal follower. i noticed wile racking the slide, the reason it doesnt lock the slide back is because the follwer stays to the rear of the magazine. i removed it and bent the back of it that rides on the magazine keeping it to the front of the magazine hence locking the slide back. i had to adjust a few other things because doing this mod effects the way the round sits so i adjusted accordingly and it works fine and you do not have to do the slingshot method to chamber the first round, it just slides right on in since it sits so high.

Good Fix. Keep an eye on the front of your mag well where the follower MAY contact your plastic frame. I put MAY in all caps because the two may come in contact or may not. If they do, metal beats plastic in most cases so you could see some unwanted wear on your frame. Not worth panicking over, but definitely worth keeping an eye on.

[wyntrout]

I just ordered some stuff from CMCtactical, including a Power Mag + 6-7 round follower/spring kit, as well as the 8-round kit. I also got one of the 8-round PM+ mags to try. I want to see if I can get something going with my collection of Officer's mags for the PM45. Maybe with a bit of tinkering I can find a combo that works. I have 7 or 8 different O6 or O7 mags for testing... incomplete, so far.

Wynn:)

[newkahrowner]

yes ive noticed it once while dorking around but not while firing. but i do watch for it.

[FHBrumb]

So, is there a "go-to" mag for starting this project yet? I've seen a few different starting points, but no clear winner. My metalform mags are telling me that I like the idea, but they might not be the best choice. Locally, its pretty much all Kimber. Online, of course, the sky is the limit.

[Ljutic]

Metalform new and old style work and they are cheap. I lost focus on this project to focus on others. I want to try a Kimber and Colt magazine next with the Wilson spring and follower. Too many projects and too little time.

[FHBrumb]

My second outing is a FAIL. I used the Metalform mags with the removable floor plate. Neither fed well. I'll try a Kimber next. The mags looked to have shorter feed lips. Every failure, the round came in too steep, and jammed upward into the roof of the chamber.

[gb6491]

My second outing is a FAIL. I used the Metalform mags with the removable floor plate. Neither fed well. I'll try a Kimber next. The mags looked to have shorter feed lips. Every failure, the round came in too steep, and jammed upward into the roof of the chamber.
The feed lips are a little shorter on the Metalform mags, but I haven't had issue using mine. As you write that the round is hitting hitting the roof of the chamber, I wonder if the rim is not getting up under the extractor of your pistol. Normally, the feed cycle has the round nosing down as the slide strips it out of the magazine, then the nose hits the ramp/feed way and angles up into the roof of the chamber; as this happens, the rim clears the feed lips and slips under the extractor as it climbs the breech face, ending with the round pushed fully into the chamber. I wonder if extractor tension is a factor here (and in your thread about empty cases hitting you in the head)?
Thanks for the update and good fortune with the Kimber mags.

newkahrowner,
Thanks for posting how you tweaked your magazines.

Wynn,
I look forward to hearing how your project goes as it moves forward.

Regards,
Greg

[FHBrumb]

Well... The Kimber mag looks more like the Metalform than the Kahr. Dunno...
I would like to hear more about "working in" the extractor. I'm not convinced this is my feed issue, as the rim looks to be nowhere near the extractor. It looks like the round is nosing up before the rim gets up to the extractor, not down. It ends up at like a 60 degree angle.

[OldLincoln]

Don't neglect to polish the roof of the chamber. My HST rounds failed at first in my PM9 jamming between the chamber roof and the mag. The roof was clean but not all that smooth, so I buffed it shiny like the ramp, rub lube into it then wipe, and all have fed well since. If nothing else, it can't hurt anything.

[FHBrumb]

Done.

[gb6491]

Well... The Kimber mag looks more like the Metalform than the Kahr. Dunno...
I would like to hear more about "working in" the extractor. I'm not convinced this is my feed issue, as the rim looks to be nowhere near the extractor. It looks like the round is nosing up before the rim gets up to the extractor, not down. It ends up at like a 60 degree angle.
Here's a video that will (hopefully) show what I was trying to describe earlier:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns1ntMjiH6I
My thought was to wonder if your extractor has some issue (I.E. too tight, too much tension) wherein the case rim is not easily slipping under it. To my mind, this might not cause feeding issues with the longer feed lips on the OEM magazine, but might possibly with a modified Officer's magazine and it's shorter feed lips.
Regards,
Greg

[Bawanna]

Dang GB, you busted that left pointer finger up a time or two ain't ya.

Looks like the 3 middle digits on my right hand. Good video, I don't have no speakers here at work but I'll crank it up from home and see if I can hear.

[gb6491]

Dang GB, you busted that left pointer finger up a time or two ain't ya.

Looks like the 3 middle digits on my right hand. Good video, I don't have no speakers here at work but I'll crank it up from home and see if I can hear.
Yes sir, I've had it tweaked a time or two, but I'm pretty fortunate in that it's pain free and still functions reasonably well (knocks on wood).:)
Regards,
Greg

[Bawanna]

Yes sir, I've had it tweaked a time or two, but I'm pretty fortunate in that it's pain free and still functions reasonably well (knocks on wood).:)
Regards,
Greg

Thats good. Mine don't hurt most of the time and work fine. I am getting good at predicting weather changes. They kind of become a little bothersome when the rains coming, mostly in winter. Not a great thing for a Washington resident but not too bad.

[FHBrumb]

I do see the progression from mag to chamber. Excellent video.

What I cannot see is how I get up to such a steep angle. Next time out, if it repeats, I'll get a pic. I cannot replicate it by hand cycling.

Other than more firing time, just clean up the extractor really well??? Buff it???

[wyntrout]

Dang, Greg. I watched the video and then looked over to the right and was looking at other topics and videos on the same page when I got distracted... Breast-feeding videos! :w00t: Took me a while to get back to the topic!:rolleyes:

Anyhow, I'm still waiting on CMCTactical to get the 10-rounder PM+ magazines in, I guess. I kind of thought going to the "source" would get me the stuff a lot quicker. :rolleyes:

I have lots of O-magazines, but want to try the Power Mag + follower/spring combo... whenever I get that stuff. It has been over two weeks since I ordered it!:(

Wynn:)

[FHBrumb]

Ok, I found a link to a link to a link to a good pdf on how to get the slide apart without losing too many pieces. I did so, and crazy buffed my breech face and all extractor components. Heck, I even got it back together with hardly any pieces left over...

I put the Metalform folower into the Kimber mag, and hand cycling is excellent. I can't wait for my next shooting session.

With the Metalform follower, I still couldn't do 7 rounds. I looked, and that follower has a long "tail" that slides down the back of the mag. I trimmed off about 2/3 of that, and now 7 will fit in, but there's not enough room for the rounds to press down as I insert the mag. So, I'm still at 6 + 1. The Kimber follower would allow 7, but no slide lock after #7 ejects. I might see about a different spring, maybe it's all bunched up at the bottom...

I do like the overall look and feel of the Kimber. Much thicker steel, and feels like a better machine all together. It still has the removable bottom, so it's easy to work on, and clean out from time to time. I made no modifications to the mag tube, it dropped in like it was made for the Kahr. All that seems wise is something to get a slide lock when empty. So, either a Kahr follower or some other follower with that capability.

[FHBrumb]

Fail again... With ball ammo, it was about a 25% ftf. With Kahr mags, the pistol never failed.with ball ammo. With JHPs, no mag fed better than 50%.

[wyntrout]

I finally emailed CMC and had them delete the danged backordered 10-round Power Mag+ mags and send me the magazine kits and the other 8-round PM+ mag.

I hope to try the followers and springs in a few of my O-mags for the PM45. I don't mind it's a bit long, since I should be able to get 7 +1 capacity with a smaller protrusion than a K6G mag. I'm still working on the slide locking back on empty and reliable feeding with something.

I ordered a 6-7 round kit, as well as an 8-round one. I trashed a Checkmate follower and need a replacement... for testing, too.

Wynn:)

[gb6491]

Fail again... With ball ammo, it was about a 25% ftf. With Kahr mags, the pistol never failed.with ball ammo. With JHPs, no mag fed better than 50%.
Hmm, as neither the OEM or modified Officer's magazines are feeding HP very well, I tend to believe it's a gun related issue. I have a suggestion I'll post in the thread you started about that.
Regards,
Greg

[wyntrout]

Well, I finally got my follower/spring kits and the 8-round Power Mag+ from CMC.

First off, the Power Mag+ follower is designed to not protrude and damage aluminum frames... sounds good for polymer, too, BUT the follower will NOT engage the slide lock actuator... so, may enable some of my mags to function except for lock-back in the PM45. I kind of expected that, though.

I'm still testing mags in my SA Champion, too, and needed a few followers for replacements... like for the CheckMate follower that I broke trying to adjust the angle between the top part and the lower that actuates the slide lock. I've really been trying to test too many different Officer's mags and not completely testing one at a time, with alterations as needed to the mag retention slot and feed lips, as well as the foller and springs. I'm just trying to do too much at once and not concentrate one one mag tube at a time... so many variables with the followers and springs, it's hard to keep up with all of them... and I haven't.:rolleyes:

Wife's off today and tomorrow, so maybe I can get to the range Wednesday. I was going on my 65th BD last Saturday and had all of my mags loaded up for my 3 .45's when my son called and we had a nice LONG chat, so had to abort the range trip. I had 181 WW FMJ loaded up in my 1911, Officers, and Kahr mags... ready for shooting.

Wifey is starting days, so will have days "free" and we'll have all evenings and the weekend together... good, but the down side is feeding US every night! :eek:

Gonna have to plan leftovers and eating out more often.:rolleyes:

Edited to add pictures... the spring in the 6-7 round kit is 2 1/2 to 3 inches shorter.

Wynn:)

[FHBrumb]

Punted...

Since I couldn't get a modified OM mag to feed well enough for me, I went the other way. I pulled apart one of my 7 round Kahr mags, and cut the bottom off. I modded it to use the removable floor from the Kimber mag. In the end, it looks really decent, and protruded about 1/16 of an inch. I used the Kahr follower, so I'm still at 6+1, but it should be dead on reliable.

[gb6491]

Punted...

Since I couldn't get a modified OM mag to feed well enough for me, I went the other way. I pulled apart one of my 7 round Kahr mags, and cut the bottom off. I modded it to use the removable floor from the Kimber mag. In the end, it looks really decent, and protruded about 1/16 of an inch. I used the Kahr follower, so I'm still at 6+1, but it should be dead on reliable.
Excellent! Would you please post some photos of it and how you modified the magazine? I think many folks would be just as pleased with that.
Regards,
Greg

[FHBrumb]

Here's a couple of pics... Both are Kahr mags, Kahr springs, Kahr Followers, 6 rounds...

[FHBrumb]

When I get a good trip to the range under it, I'll hit it good with a rotary brush to clean it up a bit.

[Texas]

Hey guys great info, my first post. Got my kahr cw45 about a month ago and just did the mod on two mags I ordered from CDNN sports. Both shipped were about $36. For both I just took a little off the top sides, and some off the part in front where it meets with the barrel's feed ramp (enough to where it sits right underneath the ramp). First gun so pardon any wrong terminology.

Mec-Gar Officers 45acp 6rd Blue MGCO4506 1 13.99

MetalForm Officers 45acp 7rd Blue MET45S290 1 9.99

The Mec-Gar holds 6, seems better built, and holds the slide open after I eject the last round. The Metalform holds 7 but doesn't hold the slide open on the last bullet unless I push the magazine in a little tighter, this is enough to raise the slide stop lever on the inside. I'm going to try bending that little part up a little and see if it does it then. I'm going to the range to test both mags sometime this week.

3989
Mec-Gar on left, Metalform on right.
3990

[gb6491]

Welcome to the forums Texas!:)
Regards,
Greg

[FHBrumb]

My last mag experiment is a winner. I'll keep it!

[RogerP9fan]

Punted...

Since I couldn't get a modified OM mag to feed well enough for me, I went the other way. I pulled apart one of my 7 round Kahr mags, and cut the bottom off. I modded it to use the removable floor from the Kimber mag. In the end, it looks really decent, and protruded about 1/16 of an inch. I used the Kahr follower, so I'm still at 6+1, but it should be dead on reliable.Is this the one you're referring to? This is whole different approach (removing the floor plate) How'd you do it? Will you post some pics here?

[FHBrumb]

I bought a Kahr mag. I put it in the pistol, and marked with a sharpie, about 1/8 below the grip. I cut the mag bottom off with a Dremel wheel. I looked at how the bottom of the Kimber mag was shaped, and cut the Kahr mag to look about the same. This ended the easy part.

I then heated the bottom of the mag with a torch, and started to bend it with small "gator nose" pliers. After I got pretty close to the bends that I saw on the Kimber, I stopped and used a Dremel wheel again, to trim things up. After that, I put the two floor pieces in place on the mag, and squeezed it a bit in a padded vice. I heated up the whole thing, and started tapping the bends to a square right angle, and into the slots on the Kimber floor. Then I scrubbed it up good, and put it all back together. Somehow, got it pretty well right on the first try.

Now that I know it works, I'll put a wire wheel into the Dremel, and clean it up good...

[FHBrumb]

Yes, it is still removable.

[RogerP9fan]

Wow, nice work and thanks for elaborating. I might need to add a blow torch to my list here soon in addition to the various files mentioned previously in this thread. lol
Greg,
Have you ever considered this approach?
What is your opinion of doing it this way compared to the way you've done it?
It just seems to me that changing out the floorplate would be the best solution with the least room for error. I'd imagine the feeding end of the magazine must have precise edges/angles to allow for proper feeding.

[gb6491]

Wow, nice work and thanks for elaborating...

+1 on that!:cheer2:


Greg,
Have you ever considered this approach?
What is your opinion of doing it this way compared to the way you've done it?
It just seems to me that changing out the floorplate would be the best solution with the least room for error. I'd imagine the feeding end of the magazine must have precise edges/angles to allow for proper feeding.
I think it's an excellent idea and you are correct that doing it this way would give you a magazine with better configured feed lips (in regards to Kahr .45s). I have thought about trying something similar with the 9mm magazines: shortening the magazine tube and re-bending the ears to eliminate the gap with the metal base plate. Speaking of base plates, that FHBrumb has found a readily available base plate for the 45 magazines makes this mod a much more attractive route to go (otherwise it would probably have involved fabricating a new base plate and welding it in place). Still, I probably won't be doing any this way for my CW45 because modified Officer's magazines work so well in it (and are not as labor intensive to mod). However, if I had a PM45, I'd sure have some base plates on order from Kimber.
Regards,
Greg

[gb6491]

KT member ecwcfl has posted an excellent thread about modifying Kimber Kimpro magazines. These are seven round magazines (flush fit) and he states the modified magazines will lock the slide back with the Kimber follower:
CW45 7Rd Flush Fit MAG that locks 100% - http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=7813

Well worth reading!
Regards,
Greg

[gb6491]

KT member ecwcfl has posted an excellent thread about modifying Kimber Kimpro magazines. These are seven round magazines (flush fit) and he states the modified magazines will lock the slide back with the Kimber follower:
CW45 7Rd Flush Fit MAG that locks 100% - http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=7813

Well worth reading!
Regards,
Greg
I didn't have good luck when bending the Kimpro follower and getting the magazine to consistently lock the slide back with My CW45. I also believe there are other circumstances that contributed to this in my particular pistol. Per other reports in that thread, chances are good that you will have better success than I did. All was not lost as the Kimpro tube works perfectly with a Kahr follower and spring. The Kimpro follower and spring give me 7 rounds in a Kahr six round tube (though no lock back).
http://i54.tinypic.com/eprb7t.jpg
http://i54.tinypic.com/2hdme80.jpg

Speaking of springs; I revisited a MecGar magazine (second from right above) that camsden1 posted as locking the slide back with it's follower (http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=40519&postcount=69 ). I didn't have consistent results when I tried it and shelved it. Well, looking at it again, I removed a little more material from the top of the tube and tested it at the range with perfect function:) (big props to camsden1). Now to the spring part, if you trim a small piece from the back leg of the MecGar follower and install with a Kimpro spring, the MecGar mag will hold seven rounds. The spring is marginal, so locking back may not be consistent and I advise against stretching springs for more oomph. However, YMMV and I thought I'd throw it out there as it only takes removing a slight bit of material from the follower and it will still function fine with the MecGar spring.
http://i56.tinypic.com/35na8eu.jpg
Regards,
Greg

[onecoolfan]

I posted a new thread with my version of this today, but I thought I would throw the same information in here. I wanted a true flush fit solution so I started with Kimber magazines with welded bases. I cut the bases off, shortened the tubes, made new bases and welded them in place. Here is the result.

[jocko]

I posted a new thread with my version of this today, but I thought I would throw the same information in here. I wanted a true flush fit solution so I started with Kimber magazines with welded bases. I cut the bases off, shortened the tubes, made new bases and welded them in place. Here is the result.

is u have the ability that probabl;y 90% of us do not have:israel:

really nice work, indeed..

[Ljutic]

I posted a new thread with my version of this today, but I thought I would throw the same information in here. I wanted a true flush fit solution so I started with Kimber magazines with welded bases. I cut the bases off, shortened the tubes, made new bases and welded them in place. Here is the result.

They look fantastic. Can I please order 2?

[JFootin]

They look fantastic. Can I please order 2?

I want 3 for my CM9!

[rkammer]

Any CW45/P45 owners interested in a flush fit magazine option?
The base mag is a little cheaper in cost (just a little over $20) than Kahr OEM magazines, but it's very good quality. The magazine will require some modifications, but they can be done with a file or Dremel tool.
It works flawlessly for me as as a 6 round magazine (using a Kahr follower and spring) with proper "lock back" function: YouTube - Kahr CW45: flush fit, six round magazine. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_If5PMhpE28)
It will work as a 7 round magazine (using the follower and spring that comes in it), but will not lock the slide back. Regardless of this, I think it very usable: especially if you carry without a spare mag: YouTube - Kahr CW45: flush fit 7 round magazine. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BgadpW2rn0)
http://i56.tinypic.com/a3gzdl.jpg
http://i55.tinypic.com/160c037.jpg
Here's a comparison shot:
http://i53.tinypic.com/140cbx0.jpg
My apologies for the corny videos:behindsofa:

NOTE to P45 owners: the magazine may fit closer to the bottom of the frame in your guns than it does in the CW45. I don't have a p45 to confirm this, but it certainly appears so in LSP972's post: http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=58903&postcount=94

Regards,
Greg

So, if I want to convert some Officers mags to work in my CW45 but want to use Kahr followers and springs, where do I get them? Does Kahr sell followers and springs?

[gb6491]

So, if I want to convert some Officers mags to work in my CW45 but want to use Kahr followers and springs, where do I get them? Does Kahr sell followers and springs?
Yes, they do: http://www.kahr.com/Parts/Kahr-CW45.asp
Regards,
Greg

[rkammer]

Yes, they do: http://www.kahr.com/Parts/Kahr-CW45.asp
Regards,
Greg

Thanks. Went to their site and found that a follower and spring will cost $23 + shipping. Kind of strong. So, with the cost of an Officers 1911 magazine running $10 to $15, the final cost to make a 6 round flush fit magazine will run almost as much as buying a new one from Kahr.

What I'm thinking is to just buy an entire new Kahr magazine and just swap out the follower and spring from the officer's mag. That way, at least I'll have two usable magazines for $50 instead of only one for about $35. One would lock back and the other wouldn't. :D

[gb6491]

Thanks. Went to their site and found that a follower and spring will cost $23 + shipping. Kind of strong. So, with the cost of an Officers 1911 magazine running $10 to $15, the final cost to make a 6 round flush fit magazine will run almost as much as buying a new one from Kahr.

What I'm thinking is to just buy an entire new Kahr magazine and just swap out the follower and spring from the officer's mag. That way, at least I'll have two usable magazines for $50 instead of only one for about $35. One would lock back and the other wouldn't. :D
That's pretty much what I did. In my case the Officer's mag I bought was a seven round by Metalform; so after swapping parts, I ended up with a flush six round mag and a seven round spare.
Regards,
Greg

[lugnut]

The flush fit mag is the best tip I have found on the internet in a long time.

[rkammer]

I've been following this and other threads dealing with flush fit mags for the CW45 and have just modified two of the current production MetalForm mags and added the Wilson Spring and follower kit to try to achieve lock-up. The mags work fine but, will still not lock open after the last round.

I realize that if I install the Kahr spring and follower to these mags that the slide will lock back but, the mags will only hold 6 rounds.

What I'm wondering is, has anyone tried removing material from the feet of the Kahr magazine to see if 7 round capacity can be achieved? And, if the Kahr spring is actually the reason for the the loss of the 7th round, has anyone tried to mix the Wilson Spring with the Kahr follower?

I would try it but, have just mailed my Kahr magazine back to the factory for a replacement under warranty because it split at the back (another problem that has been discussed here).

[sinac84]

I just don't see all the extra work for 1 extra round. I'd rather carry 2 extra magazines and practice magazine changes. Worrying about reliability of a magazine just isn't worth it to me.

[rkammer]

I just don't see all the extra work for 1 extra round. I'd rather carry 2 extra magazines and practice magazine changes. Worrying about reliability of a magazine just isn't worth it to me.

Perhaps you overlooked the primary reason for this effort and all the talk over the past few months. Although the 7th round is a bonus, the primary reason for this mod is to achieve a flush fitting magazine for slightly better concealment. The bulky Kahr magazine base is disliked by many. :)

Much of the banter has been in trying to achieve slide lock back AND the 7th round together.

[Armybrat]

I don't like the thick plastic floorplate on my CW45 mag either. Wonder why Kahr is being so obtuse about it?

My PM9 would look ugly with one...

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w349/ScoPro/Armybrat%20Album1/Guns050.jpg

[rkammer]

I finally got a chance to take the two officer 1911 mags I modded for my CW45 to the range today. I had installed the Wilson kit with replacement springs and plastic followers in both.

The bottom line is that they both functioned 100% using my reloads with 200gr LSWC bullets and even better, they both locked back after the 8th (7 +1) round. So, at least in my case, the project is a success. I hope it works out for others as well. :)

[gb6491]

I finally got a chance to take the two officer 1911 mags I modded for my CW45 to the range today. I had installed the Wilson kit with replacement springs and plastic followers in both.

The bottom line is that they both functioned 100% using my reloads with 200gr LSWC bullets and even better, they both locked back after the 8th (7 +1) round. So, at least in my case, the project is a success. I hope it works out for others as well. :)Excellent report Ray, thanks for sharing your results with the Wilson kit.
Regards,
Greg

[JFootin]

I don't like the thick plastic floorplate on my CW45 mag either. Wonder why Kahr is being so obtuse about it?

My PM9 would look ugly with one...

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w349/ScoPro/Armybrat%20Album1/Guns050.jpg

Maybe it is there for you to have something to grab onto to pull the stuck mag out! :001_tt2::banplease:

[Armybrat]

Maybe it is there for you to have something to grab onto to pull the stuck mag out! :001_tt2::banplease:

That CW mag drops free every time I push the release button! :cool:

[JFootin]

That CW mag drops free every time I push the release button! :cool:

Oh, you are one the lucky ones with an out of spec gun, according to some one that we know. ;)

[rkammer]

Oh, you are one the lucky ones with an out of spec gun, according to some one that we know. ;)

Gee, I must also have two out of spec CW45s (bought last month). Their mags also fall free when the release is pressed. I've also modded two MetalForm 1911 Officer mags and they fall free too. :D

[JFootin]

Gee, I must also have two out of spec CW45s (bought last month). Their mags also fall free when the release is pressed. I've also modded two MetalForm 1911 Officer mags and they fall free too. :D

Dang! All these faulty guns! What is Kahr going to do? :p

[gb6491]

I've updated some of my first posts to include info about the Mec-Gar 6 round Officer's mag (MGCO4506) that will function correctly (to include locking the slide back) with it's own spring and follower after doing the feed lip mod. Mine needed no mod to the latch window, YMMV.
http://i44.tinypic.com/24ca836.jpg
FWIW, all my modified mags continue to function without issue:)
Regards,
Greg

[FirstKahr]

I did one for my P45 using a Kimber Compact 7 round mag, Kahr spring and follower. Works perfectly. Only loads 6 rounds but feeds flawlessly and locks back every time. Thank you guys for the roadmap.

[gb6491]

I did one for my P45 using a Kimber Compact 7 round mag, Kahr spring and follower. Works perfectly. Only loads 6 rounds but feeds flawlessly and locks back every time. Thank you guys for the roadmap.
Welcome to the forums FirstKahr!
Thanks for your feedback/contribution to this thread.:)
Regards,
Greg

[se3388]

I used the same procedure that the OP used and now have several 7 round flush fit mags that have been functioning perfect so far. I had some stainless mags for my Stainless ATI Titan, I got them at http://joes1911magmania.net/


Steve E..........

[Maverick64]

Any CW45/P45 owners interested in a flush fit magazine option?
The base mag is less expensive than Kahr OEM magazines, but it's very good quality. The magazine will require some modifications, but they can be done with a file or Dremel tool.
It works flawlessly for me as as a 6 round magazine (using a Kahr follower and spring) with proper "lock back" function: YouTube - Kahr CW45: flush fit, six round magazine. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_If5PMhpE28)
It will work as a 7 round magazine (using the follower and spring that comes in it), but will not lock the slide back. Regardless of this, I think it very usable: especially if you carry without a spare mag: YouTube - Kahr CW45: flush fit 7 round magazine. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BgadpW2rn0)

UPDATE: this mod can be done to a Mec-Gar 6rd. Officer's magazine (MGCO4506) and mine functions perfectly to include locking back with the Mec-Gar components (follower and spring) installed. I believe this to be the least expensive, viable way to go. Again, this is how I did it, not a "how to": proceed with any modifications at your own risk.
http://i56.tinypic.com/a3gzdl.jpg
http://i55.tinypic.com/160c037.jpg
Here's a comparison shot:
http://i53.tinypic.com/140cbx0.jpg
Mec-Gar magazine on the left (note style of follower);
http://i44.tinypic.com/24ca836.jpg
My apologies for the corny videos:behindsofa:

NOTE to P45 owners: magazines may fit closer to the bottom of the frame in your guns than it does in the CW45. I don't have a p45 to confirm this, but it certainly appears so in LSP972's post: http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=58903&postcount=94

Regards,
Greg

I am giving this a shot,NO PUN INTENDED!!.....Great info.......will update..............

[Maverick64]

NOTE to P45 owners: The modified magazine may fit closer to the bottom of the frame in your guns than it does in the CW45. I don't have a p45 to confirm this, but it certainly appears so in LSP972's post: http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=58903&postcount=94
This may (or may not) require a little work on the bottom of the frame to accommodate the magazine.

on my P45 I dont want to cut the frame..............anyone else with a P45??????????????

[Maverick64]

I did one for my P45 using a Kimber Compact 7 round mag, Kahr spring and follower. Works perfectly. Only loads 6 rounds but feeds flawlessly and locks back every time. Thank you guys for the roadmap.

did you have to alter the frame of the P45?...................some posts report cutting the bottom mag well of the frame to accommodate the mag..........That's where I draw the line

[rkammer]

did you have to alter the frame of the P45?...................some posts report cutting the bottom mag well of the frame to accommodate the mag..........That's where I draw the line

I also found that mags that would fit my CW45 would not go into my P45. Instead of cutting the P45 frame, which I didn't want to do, I just filed the upper part of the mag release slot on the mags that wouldn't fit and they now fit and function fine in both pistols. It didn't take more than .002 or .003 to make it.

I still have to slam mags home in my P45 but, it's been that way even with its own mags. :)

[Maverick64]

I also found that mags that would fit my CW45 would not go into my P45. Instead of cutting the P45 frame, which I didn't want to do, I just filed the upper part of the mag release slot on the mags that wouldn't fit and they now fit and function fine in both pistols. It didn't take more than .002 or .003 to make it.

I still have to slam mags home in my P45 but, it's been that way even with its own mags. :)

sorry which mag did u use? Kimber , Mec gar and please indicate round count

[rkammer]

sorry which mag did u use? Kimber , Mec gar and please indicate round count

I used 2 MEC GAR 7 round mags and installed the Wilson spring and follower kits. I modified the feed lips per info in this thread. So, I have 7 round capacity in both mags. One mag will lock back every time after last round and the other will lock back most but not all of the time.

[Maverick64]

ok thanks.......if anyone used a kimber 7 round compact would be interested to hear the procedure....................thanks in advance

[gb6491]

ok thanks.......if anyone used a kimber 7 round compact would be interested to hear the procedure....................thanks in advance
Here's the procedure as it was orginally presented:
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=7813
Regards,
Greg

[Maverick64]

Here's the procedure as it was orginally presented:
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=7813
Regards,
Greg

great link......so you now have 7 rounder and lockback??:eek:

[FirstKahr]

did you have to alter the frame of the P45?...................some posts report cutting the bottom mag well of the frame to accommodate the mag..........That's where I draw the line

I did not have to alter the frame on my P45. I used the Kimber Compact 7 round mag PN#1000172. I removed the Kimber guts, modified the feed lips as advised and installed a Kahr mag spring and follower. No mods to the mag release slot were necessary. The base plate of the new mag is just about as close to the bottom of the frame as in Greg's pictures.
I would post a picture but I can't get a clear one. They're all just a blur.

[gb6491]

great link......so you now have 7 rounder and lockback??:eek:Unfortunately, the Kimber follower didn't work as well for me as it did for others in that thread (it failed to lock the slide back consistently in my pistol, YMMV). That said, if I'm not going to carry a spare magazine I use the Kimber or another flush fit 7 rd. magazine.
Regards,
Greg

[thatguytoo]

I am new to this forum, and I must not have the privilege to provide pictures yet, so I will explain below.

I've been working on this project for a while now, and here is what I found to work 100%.

I bought a Kimber KimPro Tac 7rd magazine (compact), and removed the spring and follower. I then filed-opened the magazine lock window both on the forward and on the bottom of the window slightly. This will allow the magazine lock to fully engage to avoid the magazine from dropping out while shooting. The best way to ensure an exact fit is to pull the lock button out of the gun, and mate or check it against the magazine after removing the material. Once it nestles against the magazine, and you can no longer see gaps between the lock button contour and magazine, you have removed enough material. Just work it slowly with a Moto tool, and/or small file. Window opening should be .150” x .350” . [<-->]

Now, you will need to slightly modify and file the top feed lips to provide clearance from the slide, and extractor. Using the stock CW45 magazine as a template, mark the KimPro with a felt pen, you can eyeball this close enough. Remove only material forward of the feed lips, and a very slight bit on the top until the slide can travel without contacting the top of the magazine. You are about 50% done now. Next, on the top rear of the magazine you will see |___| where the rear of the bullet nests. Using a round file, put a .050” radius in it to match the stock CW45 magazine. Now, debur and polish all the areas you have ground on, and give it a good cleaning.

Carefully reassemble the KimPro magazine using the CW45 magazine follower and spring. You have to work the follower in from the top, so be patient.

Now, you have a 6 rd, flush fit magazine that is ideal for a conceal carry weapon, and 100% slide lock back on the last round fired! I have several rounds through mine, and not one problem.

DO NOT be tempted or try modifying the KimPro follower with 7 rounds. It does not work. The gun will lock up, and slide lock does not always work. Trust me on this… Don’t get hung up on trying to squeeze a 7th round in.

You can order a stock replacement follower and spring from Kahr IF you’d like to keep your stock magazine for the range. I hope this helps everyone looking for a solution that works.

Larry

[Maverick64]

Ok using follower and spring from Kimber mag, I have 100% lockback.....and seven rounds. performed all the steps including rounding out rear top portion of mag....... problem is that when i Manually rack slide to extract rounds, it is jamming but they are coming out although relunctly.....not smooth.....should I make any adjustment?....



I am usually a very strong guy to begin with.............have to range test it to see if it jams

[thatguytoo]

I had too many problems using the stock KimPro follower and spring as well. Way too much pressure on the slide, and made it very difficult (tight) to rack. That is why I installed the CW45 follower, and went to 6 rounds, not 7. This made it very easy to rack the slide, and 100% reliable including lock back.

Larry

[Maverick64]

i switched to the Kahr follower and spring and it will cycle manually but it still has some rounds that are jamming....I guess I have to test fire........to see if slide cycles.

[thatguytoo]

At what point of the cycle are the rounds jamming? I do know that if you manually cycle rounds slowly they can tend to hang up. Things need to move pretty quickly, and with some force in semi-autos for them to function properly. Please keep me posted if you have any issues at the range, but I believe you shouldn't have any problems.

[Maverick64]

I can rack slide to load, locks back everytime.. when I am manually cycling the slide it hangs up........I will test fire.......Great forum by the way...........

[thatguytoo]

Just be sure that the slide and/or extractor are NOT coming in contact in any way with the new magazine throughout the slides travel. Do this with empty mag looking carefully several times to be sure.

[Maverick64]

yes I made sure..............will have a range report when I can get down to range...............

[n2brk]

I just ordered three MGCO4506B's... I'm very glad that everyone shared their experiences in this thread, it's a big help to a nqqbie like me :)

Wally

[n2brk]

UPDATE: this mod can be done to a Mec-Gar 6rd. Officer's magazine (MGCO4506) and mine functions perfectly to include locking back with the Mec-Gar components (follower and spring) installed. I believe this to be the least expensive, viable way to go. Again, this is how I did it, not a "how to": proceed with any modifications at your own risk.


OOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH BABY!!!!!!! I went the Mec Gar route and bought three of them. I just did the first one in very short time. Great suggestion on using this magazine! The angle of the round on the follower/lips is just like the stock Kahr mag. I inserted the mag into the well with the slide locked open, and saw the point of contact as described. I took off a little and tested (repeated a few times) and it was a perfect fit. I took a Sharpie and painted over the now fresh areas from filing, and retested and examined to see if the paint was scraped off indicating a high spot of drag; none found. I polished the follower to a mirror and the feed lips as well. Reassembly and testing indicate things are perfect. I'll do the other two and then give it the litmus test at the range.

Thanks for helping newbies like me to do what Kahr should be offering!

Wally

[n2brk]

this is great! I just did the third one. I whipped it out in mere minutes freehand with a bench grinder, followed by a stone to smooth the shape. If you are on the fence, just do it!

[n2brk]

Range report - I put a couple hundred through the new trio, without a single hiccup. THANK YOU to those sharing this great info.

[gb6491]

Range report - I put a couple hundred through the new trio, without a single hiccup. THANK YOU to those sharing this great info.
Thank you for the range report! :)
Regards,
Greg

[thatguytoo]

Hi all,

I apparently still do not have the privileges to embed pictures yet. I keep emailing the Kahrtalk administrator, but am getting no responses… Very frustrating.

Anyway, I made a few 7 round flush fit magazines for my CW45. I bought 2ea. Metalform MET45S290 magazines and 3ea. Wilson Combat Item Number: 266,45C follower and spring kits. I simply modified the feed lips of the mags, and opened up the mag lock window (see prior post), and installed the Wilson follower and spring. I also modified the slide lock tab on the follower. Using a scrap piece of metal I had laying around (door striker plate), I cut a small strip of metal and bent at 90-95 degrees [ _| ]. I then used two part epoxy and glued into the spot where the slide lock contacts the follower. This adds durability, and a slight bit of lift to ensure 100% slide lock. Just a little filing to smooth and contour, easy as pie. I made a third for my KimPro Tac mag, and all three function fine. Wish I could add pictures…

Take care,
Larry

[AlbinLee]

Hi all,

I apparently still do not have the privileges to embed pictures yet. I keep emailing the Kahrtalk administrator, but am getting no responses… Very frustrating.

Anyway, I made a few 7 round flush fit magazines for my CW45. I bought 2ea. Metalform MET45S290 magazines and 3ea. Wilson Combat Item Number: 266,45C follower and spring kits. I simply modified the feed lips of the mags, and opened up the mag lock window (see prior post), and installed the Wilson follower and spring. I also modified the slide lock tab on the follower. Using a scrap piece of metal I had laying around (door striker plate), I cut a small strip of metal and bent at 90-95 degrees [ _| ]. I then used two part epoxy and glued into the spot where the slide lock contacts the follower. This adds durability, and a slight bit of lift to ensure 100% slide lock. Just a little filing to smooth and contour, easy as pie. I made a third for my KimPro Tac mag, and all three function fine. Wish I could add pictures…

Take care,
Larry

That is certainly strange? I made my account within this past month and was able to embed pictures from day 1. I just use a free photobucket account, copy the image link code, and paste directly over here and get great pictures. Hope it works out for you.

[JFootin]

As I understand it, if you add an avatar, and a signature, maybe some other customizations to your account, that gets you cleared quicker. It distinguishes you from a computer generated false account.

Maybe the mods can chime in here? A FAQ sticky would be a good idea, too.

[gb6491]

There was an announcement recently about a 30 post minimum for new members before they received certain privileges on the board; posting photos was one of those.
Regards,
Greg

[n2brk]

I guess that's so we get 25 extra "me too, Bro" posts from all newbs, lol

[thatguytoo]

Thanks all,

Here is the message I have run into.

Larry



thatguytoo, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

[Bald Baron]

Modified two metalform officer mags today. Just had to file the tops. The notch was in the right place and the followers lock the slide back when empty. Only put 50 rounds through them today, with one nose dive. Will shoot some more tomorrow and see what happens.:yo:

[n2brk]

check the spring inside to be sure it's in place and oriented properly.

[thatguytoo]

Modified two metalform officer mags today. Just had to file the tops. The notch was in the right place and the followers lock the slide back when empty. Only put 50 rounds through them today, with one nose dive. Will shoot some more tomorrow and see what happens.:yo:
If the mags drop out, simply open the mag lock window allowing better lock engagement.

I've had good luck with my Metalform mags.

Larry