Anecdote on Kahr availability

[DavidR]

I went to my local big box retailer/range today, Shoot Straight in West Palm Beach. They’ve always carried Kahr. I bought a CW9 from them more than five years ago and a CT380 maybe two years ago.

Kahr never got prime display space at Shoot Straight, they were always displayed at the counter where you check in for the range and there are usually people standing in front of that counter checking in.

Today they were nowhere to be found. I looked at every counter and couldn’t find them. The place was mobbed so I didn’t ask anyone but I’m guessing they weren’t selling many so they dropped them. Kinda sad [emoji20].

[King Rat]

I see that they seem to be sold out in many places on line. But who knows in the crazy internet world we live in. The internet Propaganda of small carry guns and light triggers and short resets seems to be the thing more and more. I talked to one owner of the LGS and he was telling me that so many newbies are coming up and asking him and his staff to show them the lightest trigger and of course you must have the shortest reset. Seems they believe that is how a gun is judged these day's. Many will describe any DAO as "A terrible Trigger". Does not seem to matter to them if it is one of the finest ever made. And of course the new fad now is HIGH Capacity. Seems if you do not have at least 10 rounds you are a walking Dead Man. And most would not dream of a gun that might require a break in of a couple of hundred rounds. Heck that is more than they will shoot in a year. But who knows where the new internet fads will go. I am sure for the present the triggers will get to around 4 lbs of pull and no wall. LOL, in fact I had a Ruger LC9S that was shot so often the Trigger was down to 4lbs and it honestly did not feel like there was a wall. Got to the point that I did not trust it. Even sent it up to Ruger but they did nothing. Traded it in for a Kahr Cm9 used and got a heck of a deal.
Yet, when I posted this on another forum. people thought I was crazy as they would love to have the light trigger. In fact one guy even boasted how he sent his in and got his to 3lbs of pull. And of Course, I am called a FUDD, but again, they do not even have a clue what a FUDD is.

[DavidR]

In full disclosure: I own a P365, love it and carry it more than anything else.

[berettabone]

You don't see many Kahr's in my area...…………………...never have. I am kind of astonished about the fact that up here, there are still people who have never heard of Kahr. You don't have to be a firearms expert, just being around firearms, they should have heard of Kahr. Many people are focused on the well known "big" manufacturers like S&W, Ruger, Kimber, H&K, Sig, etc. I'm actually surprised that there aren't more leg shootings with these light triggers, practicing faster draws for defense purposes. As has been mentioned, many of these owners do not shoot/practice much, making a light trigger even more risky, not to forget holstering. I've seen things at a range that made my hair stand up as far as holstering and shooting. IMHO, these super light triggers are nothing but a disaster waiting to happen. They should only be on serious target guns. Many shooters these days just don't have the experience with different types of firearm triggers to even have an opinion of what a "good" trigger is. I'm hoping that the general shooting public will come back to their senses as far as triggers go.

[oldtimer]

I like Kahr guns however the name itself seems to turn off many shooters, kahr does not get the press many firearms do so it may be just not getting word out. I would agree with the post above far too many shooters carrying triggers that are simply wrong for concealed carry, beware of home gunsmith triggers.

[skiflydive]

It's an axiom in retail/distribution that companies inventory what customers ask them for. People clamor for Glocks, Sigs, Rugers, etc because those are the brands they know. It's Kahr's fault IMHO. How much advertising do you see them do? An occasional 1/4 page with the latest prettification of an old standard. I haven't seen any advertising that would drive anyone to the store and say "I want one of those Kahr's." I haven't seen advertising for anything substantially new. I'm not sure why any business owner would stock expensive stuff nobody asks for by name. I did a lot of research before I decided on a CM9 (including a lot of time spent here) but I had to go to 3 LGSs before I found one to buy. I was in the largest LGS around yesterday and saw 3 Kahrs. All trade ins, all 40's, all pretty well buried under other brands, all pretty expensive. It's a shame. Great guns!

[I_Like_Turtles]

It's an axiom in retail/distribution that companies inventory what customers ask them for. People clamor for Glocks, Sigs, Rugers, etc because those are the brands they know. It's Kahr's fault IMHO. How much advertising do you see them do? An occasional 1/4 page with the latest prettification of an old standard. I haven't seen any advertising that would drive anyone to the store and say "I want one of those Kahr's." I haven't seen advertising for anything substantially new. I'm not sure why any business owner would stock expensive stuff nobody asks for by name. I did a lot of research before I decided on a CM9 (including a lot of time spent here) but I had to go to 3 LGSs before I found one to buy. I was in the largest LGS around yesterday and saw 3 Kahrs. All trade ins, all 40's, all pretty well buried under other brands, all pretty expensive. It's a shame. Great guns!

Kahrs are not common where I am.....I have only seen one Kahr in a gun store and that was like 1999 and I bought it. It was in the gun store a long time before I took the plunge. I have only had three friends ever own one and one of those friends had bought it from me.

Gunbroker seems to have a healthy dose of most models and I (hopefully) just now ironed out the shipping and insurance costs on the K9 I won the bidding on last week.

I think Glock, S&W, Sig, and Springfield dominate CCW where I live. For me though, the Kahr fills the "compact semi auto" niche very well. If I need larger it's a 1911 or Browning Hi Power.

[King Rat]

It's an axiom in retail/distribution that companies inventory what customers ask them for. People clamor for Glocks, Sigs, Rugers, etc because those are the brands they know. It's Kahr's fault IMHO. How much advertising do you see them do? An occasional 1/4 page with the latest prettification of an old standard. I haven't seen any advertising that would drive anyone to the store and say "I want one of those Kahr's." I haven't seen advertising for anything substantially new. I'm not sure why any business owner would stock expensive stuff nobody asks for by name. I did a lot of research before I decided on a CM9 (including a lot of time spent here) but I had to go to 3 LGSs before I found one to buy. I was in the largest LGS around yesterday and saw 3 Kahrs. All trade ins, all 40's, all pretty well buried under other brands, all pretty expensive. It's a shame. Great guns!

Kahr's fault? Maybe Kahr has a different Marketing or business strategy than other companies who have one goal, to just sell millions. Yes the world is full of new gun toting owners. Most do not know squat. Just walk into a LGS and listen to them. Many are driven by price. Does Ruger sell millions? You bet they do and they spend a fortune in Advertising. Who do you think actually Pays for those ads? The consumer pays out of his butt for them. Not in cost but in quality. Take a Ruger LCP, and they sell them like cell phones in a plastic bubble rap. How much doe the millions of ads for that gun go into each gun? Yes, Ruger customer service is top notch, even something not wrong with a gun and some clown will send it back. How much money and waste goes into a flagrant customer service? In all can be divided into the gun. I have a feeling Kahr and other manufactuers walk their own path. Happy with making a great quality firearm, keeping a good staff, and keeping things simple. And it seems to be a business that survives.
America is the land of MORE is better. All you can eat is better than a good healty fine dinner at a great restaurant. The Big Gulp is better than a standard size regular. A bucket of Popcorn is better than just a small bag. And More rounds in a gun with more mags is better for every day carry.
The crazy internet, full of tactical nonsense, sensationalism of every shooting, (just as bad as CNN but in a opposite way). FADS, gimmicks, HYPE. Meet Marketing, nothing but propaganda over and over. And the guy that walks into a LGS these days would not know a Kahr quality, from his ass. How many times have you seen a guy behind the counter actually break down a gun and show the difference?

Yep, not many people know about a Kahr and that seems fine with Kahr. Heck it is fine with me. I have news for you. Most popular does not mean BEST. And more rounds in a Magazine does not mean best.

Mega million ads, hype, fads, and the more is better never seems to stop. THE ART OF SELLING THE SIZZLE AND NOT THE STEAK seems to be the norm these days. More is better. NOT

https://i.imgur.com/OA0jvbL.jpg?1

[DavidR]

I wouldn’t say Kahr’s quality is any better, or any worse for that matter, than other manufacturers. We don’t have the data to know. All of them seem to have issues, especially with new designs. Of course we haven’t seen any new designs from Kahr ... [emoji4]

[King Rat]

I wouldn’t say Kahr’s quality is any better, or any worse for that matter, than other manufacturers. We don’t have the data to know. All of them seem to have issues, especially with new designs. Of course we haven’t seen any new designs from Kahr ... [emoji4]

Not sure there needs to be a new design. Something to be said in the KISS method. Kahr seems to have developed the near perfect design from the beginning. Maybe find a way to get the Pm series and the CM series closer together and a just have one price. All the benifits at a lower price. JMO.

[guido4198]

Posted by King Rat:
"Yep, not many people know about a Kahr and that seems fine with Kahr. Heck it is fine with me. I have news for you. Most popular does not mean BEST. And more rounds in a Magazine does not mean best."
Soooo...Those clever folks at Kahr Armshave figured out that their best interests lie in NOT selling too many of their products..????Maybe they realized that they can't keep up with increased demand..??Fascinating.

[DavidR]

Kahr risks getting into a vicious cycle. No new products to keep up with market trends means lower sales of existing products. Lower sales of existing products means less cash flow. Less cash flow means you have to cut costs and R&D/innovation is high on the list. Less R&D/innovation means no new products. (Rinse and repeat).

Let's hope this isn't the case.

[dustnchips]

Not sure there needs to be a new design. Something to be said in the KISS method. Kahr seems to have developed the near perfect design from the beginning. Maybe find a way to get the Pm series and the CM series closer together and a just have one price. All the benifits at a lower price. JMO.

Other than the dovetail front sight I don't see anything about the Ps that are better than the Cs. Just window dressing. I own both.

[berettabone]

Not sure there needs to be a new design. Something to be said in the KISS method. Kahr seems to have developed the near perfect design from the beginning. Maybe find a way to get the Pm series and the CM series closer together and a just have one price. All the benifits at a lower price. JMO. I'll bet that ALL manufacturer's have developed the near perfect design/handgun.:) If it just wasn't for those lousy sights, or that crappy trigger, or that magazine that sticks out of the bottom, or that .380 that never works consistently with any type of ammo. I owned an early MK9 for years and carried it for years. Perfect? Hardly. Better quality than other firearms? In many cases, but better quality overall? Not really....…………….there's another reason why Ruger sells a boatload of small firearms in bubble wrap. If I want to purchase say a .380, why would I, expecting maybe some issues, go out and spend $400-500 on a "quality" .380 when I can purchase an LCP or LCR 9 for small change. I purchased the wife's LCP II for $240. I'm sure that it's just as reliable if not more so than say a Kahr .380. Does it work?????? Very well actually, I was surprised. Shoots any ammo my wife chooses. Accurate. Actually, more accurate than my MK. Have to keep them clean and lubed up... ..………...Kahr's business plan and their product must be good enough for the owner. I believe that they have run out of ideas when I see what they release.

[King Rat]

I'll bet that ALL manufacturer's have developed the near perfect design/handgun.:) If it just wasn't for those lousy sights, or that crappy trigger, or that magazine that sticks out of the bottom, or that .380 that never works consistently with any type of ammo. I owned an early MK9 for years and carried it for years. Perfect? Hardly. Better quality than other firearms? In many cases, but better quality overall? Not really....…………….there's another reason why Ruger sells a boatload of small firearms in bubble wrap. If I want to purchase say a .380, why would I, expecting maybe some issues, go out and spend $400-500 on a "quality" .380 when I can purchase an LCP or LCR 9 for small change. I purchased the wife's LCP II for $240. I'm sure that it's just as reliable if not more so than say a Kahr .380. Does it work?????? Very well actually, I was surprised. Shoots any ammo my wife chooses. Accurate. Actually, more accurate than my MK. Have to keep them clean and lubed up... ..………...Kahr's business plan and their product must be good enough for the owner. I believe that they have run out of ideas when I see what they release.

Owned many LCP's. Yes they are reliable until they are not. And that is not a lot of rounds. Kahr will keep on trucking when the LCP has his the dirt. Just NOT the same quality of materials. And nothing personal, I would not own the LCPll with that trigger. I love shooting the pocket guns, have been shooting them religiously for 10 years. The LCP is not a Kahr in any way. (actually still own one LCP. (Gen 2, just never shoot it any more)
I do own the LCR9mm and love that gun even though it got sent back three times for the same thing. Not disparaging Ruger, just like any gun they have their problems.

[rx7sig]

Other than the dovetail front sight I don't see anything about the Ps that are better than the Cs. Just window dressing. I own both.


Polygonal barrel is more costly than standard rifling. Tool steel parts are more costly than MIM. You already mentioned dovetail sight vs. pinned sight. People who don't care about this type of thing will purchase the less costly C's (rather than the P's).

ETA: I'm not sure why K's and P's aren't sufficient "variety" for the Kahr "compact" models. Except that different people have different wants.

rx7sig

[I_Like_Turtles]

rx7sig...is that a thumb break I spy in your avatar? If so, what maker?

I hope Kahr keeps in the game......IMO Kahr "fills the niche" in the "Compact Semi Auto" slot of my "Carry Battery." Further, I like the double-action feel of Kahrs as I most often carry a J-frame.

[rx7sig]

rx7sig...is that a thumb break I spy in your avatar? If so, what maker?

Yes. Details here: http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?32346-Wood-Grips-for-K9&p=411667#post411667.

ETA: I have a couple of relevant posts in this thread: http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?33110-Don-Hume&p=411286#post411286.

rx7sig

[MMyers1970]

Kahr has low name recognition. They aren't carried by cops(except for some NYPD back in the day). They're not carried by soldiers. Their appearances in movies and TV are few and far between. I never see another Kahr shooter at the range. I am happy to let anyone try my pistol, and they all like it once they figure out the trigger.

What can Kahr do to achieve more market penetration? Not much, really. They are never going to have the name recognition of Glock or SIG or Springfield. What should they do? Keep on trend. A double stack CM9 the price of a Hellcat would be competitive. The Kahr trigger is beloved by those of us who love it, and is easily adapted to by revolver shooters, but people raised on short travel triggers tend to not like it.

Changing the trigger to something akin to a P320 would be a really good idea, but that would destroy the innate Kahr-ness of the pistol.

The Kahr line is not the focus of Kahr Arms anymore. It's Auto-Ordinance and Desert Eagles and the BFR. They sell a lot of 1911s and Deagles.

[Bawanna]

Quite a few officers at my department carried Kahrs, a lot of PM9's in ankle and vest holsters and probably will be more since many are transitioning back to 9mm's from 45's. Kind of glad I left when I did, took me 15 years to go from 9's to 40's to finally 45's and now they are starting all over again. Didn't want to be around to see it myself.

MRI does make some mighty fine 1911's, I have 3 now and they are my best shooters. Might get a 9 when the chance comes along.

[King Rat]

Posted by King Rat:
"Yep, not many people know about a Kahr and that seems fine with Kahr. Heck it is fine with me. I have news for you. Most popular does not mean BEST. And more rounds in a Magazine does not mean best."
Soooo...Those clever folks at Kahr Armshave figured out that their best interests lie in NOT selling too many of their products..????Maybe they realized that they can't keep up with increased demand..??Fascinating.

What is fascinating is the fact that it seems you have so much knowledge of Kahr's Financials. Since you know so much, would you mind sharing with the rest of us. Sorry I am not a fad boy like yourself. But each to his own. Hey, what do I know, do not even want a Macarbo Trigger. Do just fine with the Kahr stock. Lol, Fascinating!

[DavidR]

Small correction to my post - Shoot Straight had 2 new Kahrs in the case today:

CT40 $289
CW40 $299