P380 Extractor Chain, Old vs New

[topgun1953]

I received my new $299 Black Diamond P380 the other day. It had some issues with some cheap Maxx Tech ammo but Armscor ran like butter. 150 rounds total. Fail to extract was the main issue with the cheap stuff. I usually had to stick my finger in the chamber to get the casing out of the chamber. I’m guessing oversized? No concerns about this from me.

i noticed the extractor tension was noticeable less in my new P380, even with the rear extractor pinned shortened slightly. I decided to break both guns down and compare. Here is a picture. The rear pin is now noticeably shorter. So it looks like Kahr has been listening and I’m willing to bet now that the Issues with their 380s have decreased significantly. Now...I wonder how long the striker will last.😀

I've included a picture of the two for your enjoyment. 1656316564

[DavidR]

Great picture.

Lakeline will eliminate your striker worries.

[topgun1953]

Great picture.

Lakeline will eliminate your striker worries.

Yes, I have one in the first one after 4-5 breaks!

[Arizona Gunner]

So apparently the $299 pistols are recent production. I have been wondering if they were old stock that had been sitting on someone’s shelf for years.

[DrSheed]

So apparently the $299 pistols are recent production. I have been wondering if they were old stock that had been sitting on someone’s shelf for years.

I just picked up a p380 with 4 mags for $450. I know that dealers are gouging on prices due to the current state of our nation, but was this a good deal?

I immediately took my new kahr out and shot 200+ rounds as recommended. I experience no malfunctions except for the slide locking back a couple times when there was still ammo in the mag (shooting remington range ammo). I chalked this malf up to my high and tight grip - I have had the same issue with many other pistols. Fired 100 rds of various carry ammo with 0 malfs. Has been my new go-to carry since then.

Is there a way I can tell if I have an older or newer model? Please explain what you are talking about when you say recent production $299 pistols.

[topgun1953]

This is the $299 deal: https://shoot-straight.com/product/kahr-arms-p380-61rd-380-acp-2-53/ still shows 37 in stock. I think you'll have to contact Kahr to find out the production date of your P380. My SN RE08XX . I may contact them myself. I was just comparing my new purchase to one I bought in 2014. A lot of members believe the extractor on these has always been to tight causing feeding problems. We have resorted to various methods to reduce the tension. One was reducing the length of the back pin. The pin on my new P380 (which I assume is "recent" production) is much shorter than the pin on my older P380. congrats on your new purchase, BTW!!

[King Rat]

So apparently the $299 pistols are recent production. I have been wondering if they were old stock that had been sitting on someone’s shelf for years.

I have no doubt these are NOT old models that have been sitting on shelves. Cannot be too old, look at the serial #location on the grip and not under the barrel. What this is IMO is discontinued product. Look at the stock #Kp3834. Notice the newer models have a "N" after the KP3834. Which stands for night sights. These have combat sights. Which is actually my Preference anyway. When I put a night sight on, I only want a front sight. I have been point shooting for years and found that rear sights just cause too much distraction and just not need for these fast little guns. I will either blacken out the rear sight or buy one from already blackened. Most like just do it my self like I did for my Nano's. MY comes in tomorrow. The first thing I will do is a good cleaning, The rack the slide and let the recoil spring take a Set. Same with the mags.

[Ed M]

KR - not saying anything about new/old stock.

The night sight models have coexisted with the combat sight models for a lot of years.

The serial number has also always been on the grip, unlike other caliber models. Nothing new here either.

That was a great deal - enjoy your new P380!

[topgun1953]

I emailed Kahr yesterday and received a reply this morning. The production date of my new P380, RE08xx is 1/28/2020 .

[Ed M]

Make sure you sniff the box - I love that new Kahr smell.:cool:

[DJK11]

A p380 is a p380. Mine’s an RAxxxx, first production run, with nite sites and the sn tag on the grip. What difference does it make if it’s made last month or last year or the year before that.
All this excitement!!

[wally1]

Just shot my new P380 yesterday. Took it apart, cleaned and lubed it first. Racked the slide a bunch till it started to smooth out some. Shot Winchester 380 round nose that I've had for a long time. Multiple failures to extract, failures to feed, a couple of slide failures to lock back on last round, and one light striker impact. Only fired 36 rounds total - in my backyard.
I cycled some flat nose 380 through it and that seemed to cycle smoothly.

The gun obviously needs more break in, but I hit what I aimed at when it did fire.

[topgun1953]

A p380 is a p380. Mine’s an RAxxxx, first production run, with nite sites and the sn tag on the grip. What difference does it make if it’s made last month or last year or the year before that.
All this excitement!!

Yes excitement. The difference is that at some point Kahr decreased the tension on the extractor which should eliminate many of the feed problems a lot of us had in older production. Now there’s less headaches and more fun being had with these great 380s.😀😀

[DavidR]

Just shot my new P380 yesterday. Took it apart, cleaned and lubed it first. Racked the slide a bunch till it started to smooth out some. Shot Winchester 380 round nose that I've had for a long time. Multiple failures to extract, failures to feed, a couple of slide failures to lock back on last round, and one light striker impact. Only fired 36 rounds total - in my backyard.
I cycled some flat nose 380 through it and that seemed to cycle smoothly.

The gun obviously needs more break in, but I hit what I aimed at when it did fire.

Certainly not a great start.

[King Rat]

Certainly not a great start.

Have a little patience. 36 rounds is not squat. You will reap the rewards soon. Mine will go through the standard 48 hr Recoil Spring "Set" before I even shoot it. Will use other other magazines while the new ones take a "SET". You knew the gun had tight tolerences before you bought it. At least I did and I expect it not to run smooth right out of the gate. Relax and go with the flow. It will bloom in quick time.

[DavidR]

Have a little patience. 36 rounds is not squat. You will reap the rewards soon. Mine will go through the standard 48 hr Recoil Spring "Set" before I even shoot it. Will use other other magazines while the new ones take a "SET". You knew the gun had tight tolerences before you bought it. At least I did and I expect it not to run smooth right out of the gate. Relax and go with the flow. It will bloom in quick time.

Totally agree, but - some Kahr 380s simply don’t work without some post factory gunsmithing. Some problems will not resolve themselves with more rounds.

[King Rat]

Totally agree, but - some Kahr 380s simply don’t work without some post factory gunsmithing. Some problems will not resolve themselves with more rounds.
Some Glock, Beretta's, Sig's and on and on the same. Just the nature of the beast.

[Bawanna]

Which is exactly why most all guns with few exceptions require a break in period even though Kahr is one of the few that emphasize it.

[topgun1953]

Just shot my new P380 yesterday. Took it apart, cleaned and lubed it first. Racked the slide a bunch till it started to smooth out some. Shot Winchester 380 round nose that I've had for a long time. Multiple failures to extract, failures to feed, a couple of slide failures to lock back on last round, and one light striker impact. Only fired 36 rounds total - in my backyard.
I cycled some flat nose 380 through it and that seemed to cycle smoothly.

The gun obviously needs more break in, but I hit what I aimed at when it did fire.

Be sure to try different ammo. Here is a link to some 380 that goes through mine very easily. The price is great and they still have plenty in stock.
https://www.ammosupplywarehouse.com/east/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_61&products_id=30494 I have 1400 rnds of the stuff.

I've been running some Maxx Tech through mine and I get several fail to extract. I can't just tap the casing out of the chamber. I usually have to grip the case rim with my finger nail to help get it out. Maybe the chamber is on the small side? They feed fine on my old P380. Since you had some fail to feeds, I'd wager that the light strike was due to being out of battery. You should be good to go in a bit. I've put 300 rnds through my new P380 now. I like what I see so far.

[DJK11]

First, thanks for the link. That’s a great price, I’m passing that on to fellow shooters. I haven’t purchased factory ammo in many years so haven’t ran Armscor but heard favorable reviews.

My P380 has more than 5k through it. With less than 1k it had more than it’s share of problems. On the third barrel, third striker ( now a Lakeline ), second cocking cam and trigger bar. Fourth extractor. Can’t say how many recoil spring combinations I have in a Ziplock. The broken extractors is the most concerning. And yes I’ve reduced the tension. Kahr claims steel case is the cause, but I’m not using steel.

[King Rat]

First, thanks for the link. That’s a great price, I’m passing that on to fellow shooters. I haven’t purchased factory ammo in many years so haven’t ran Armscor but heard favorable reviews.

My P380 has more than 5k through it. With less than 1k it had more than it’s share of problems. On the third barrel, third striker ( now a Lakeline ), second cocking cam and trigger bar. Fourth extractor. Can’t say how many recoil spring combinations I have in a Ziplock. The broken extractors is the most concerning. And yes I’ve reduced the tension. Kahr claims steel case is the cause, but I’m not using steel.

Just curious, how often to you change out recoil springs? Three barrels? What is going on with that? Does the Kahr CW barrel have the same issues? How was the lifetime warranty service with Kahr. So Kahr tried to blame the broken extractors on steel case ammo. I went through a lot of LCP's for a long time and during the ammo shortage ran steel case ammo through them like crazy. I would get a lot of cracked frames, split rails, broken take down pins etc with or without steel case ammo, but never once in thousands of rounds had a broken extractor. Did Kahr replace the barrels? For all my firearms, I keep a supply of spare parts. Already have the spares you mentioned for the CW, but if a barrel wears out that fast, then this could be my last Kahr at least the P series. If so, I will stick with the Beretta Pico, which truly is built tough. I enjoy shooting the Kahr, nice smooth shooting pistol in all respects, but obviously will not use the New P380 for much other than carry, and shoot the CW as a range gun and try and keep a good maintenance schedule. I am a big believer in changing out recoil springs on small Pocket guns early, so that is not a issue for me.

I will say one thing for Ruger, they would replace my LCP;s, which they did a number of times. I will be very interested to see how long my CW380 will last and as Kahr only has a three year warranty will not buy another one if it falls apart and cannot even make it to 3,000 rds without some kind of failure. (other than recoil springs). Hope my CM9's hold up, as I love that gun as well.
Thanks for the info. Will keep all this in mind.

[DJK11]

The p380 was my first Kahr, a month or two later a pm9, then the first pm45.
Plating and rust issues with the barrels. Rusty hood then pitted/rusty feed ramp. The current barrel has a very dull finish. Not a concern. It’s just a pistol.
Trigger bar reset lug wore out as did one lug of the cocking cam. Strikers broke in the usual spot. Who knows why the extractors brake. I assume from out of spec brass and shape of the extractor claw. The reduced tension extractor doesn’t throw shells nearly as far a distance.
Last few years I don’t shoot it very much. Kahr has always replaced parts at no charge and has looked at it a couple of time at no charge. The customer service is fantastic, never had a problem.
While it had problems, it handles great for its size and I do carry it on occasion. Would I purchase another? No and that’s not because of the pistol but the caliber. With a micro 9 I don’t need a 380.

[wally1]

I'm well aware of the recommended break in and not complaining.

I have an uneducated question about leaving the slide locked back for a period of time. It seems to me that this is to give the spring a chance to "settle" or "relax" to it's normal tension.

I have read that springs don't really change much when in a static position and it is the back and forth action that "breaks them in".

On another note, I would think that a close tolerance mechanism would benefit from a stiffer spring during break in and the parts would break in together.

[King Rat]

I'm well aware of the recommended break in and not complaining.

I have an uneducated question about leaving the slide locked back for a period of time. It seems to me that this is to give the spring a chance to "settle" or "relax" to it's normal tension.

I have read that springs don't really change much when in a static position and it is the back and forth action that "breaks them in".

On another note, I would think that a close tolerance mechanism would benefit from a stiffer spring during break in and the parts would break in together.


Have spent many years shooting High End and Custom Spring Powered Rifles. Learned quit a bit about them. There are some top quality Air rilfes (English/German etc) that will come with high quality springs, but yet many shooters will automatically get a after market custom spring. Many discussion on Springs on Air Rifle forums and many test etc. A Spring has to take a "SET". Many test done where a rifle was cocked and then tested for over a year and the power measured etc. One Notorious Spring maker that sells high quality springs, will tell the customer to take a particual spring and do a "SET". Or he will tell them they have been Preset before hand.

By the way, last week I brought out a old LCP that I had put away as sort of a Truck gun so to speak. My gosh, that OEM spring had lost all of it's life. I mean this spring barely had enough power to push up the last round. I just received a Wolf spring to replace it, and other mags.
Regardless, if a person does not believe this, that is fine with me. But I will say this, I have done this for years with all my guns, and magazines and they are run fine.

[King Rat]

Just now saw this on the Wilson Combat sight. (breaking in a new gun)

Your new pistol is tightly fitted to very close tolerances to achieve maximum accuracy.

Even though a Wilson Combat pistol has been thoroughly tested by a professional test shooter with almost 100 rounds of our custom loaded ammunition, it will still require a thorough break-in to achieve reliable function across a broad spectrum of shooters and ammunition.
Load and unload your new magazines several times and keep them loaded for several days in advance of your first range day to allow the stiff springs to take an initial set. This will make them easier to load and reduce pressure on the bottom of the slide that could cause a malfunction.


Maintaining Magazines (https://www.wilsoncombat.com/faqs/#maintaining-magazines-201469)

Make sure your magazines are clean and the springs have taken a set. Our ETM 9mm magazines are the most reliable 1911 9mm magazines on the market, but when new, the springs are very strong to ensure proper round position and last round lock back. It’s a good idea to load your new magazines prior to heading to the range and let the springs take their initial set.




When to Clean (https://www.wilsoncombat.com/faqs/#when-to-clean-137557)