View Full Version : PM9 Guide rod
winter5470
09-10-2010, 08:48 AM
I have about 1500 rounds thru my PM9 and need to change the springs. I ordered a set from Wolff then realized I can not take apart the guide rod to get to the inner (captured spring). Another post on this board said you do not need to change the inner spring as often. But if I did want to change it - how can I seperate the 2 guide rod halfs? I have an extra new style guide rod that was given to me (mine uses the old style) so I put it in the oven for 10 min at 375 degrees. That did not help. I hate to put a pliars to it for fear of damaging the metal. Any thoughts?
kurt
jocko
09-10-2010, 09:20 AM
I have about 1500 rounds thru my PM9 and need to change the springs. I ordered a set from Wolff then realized I can not take apart the guide rod to get to the inner (captured spring). Another post on this board said you do not need to change the inner spring as often. But if I did want to change it - how can I seperate the 2 guide rod halfs? I have an extra new style guide rod that was given to me (mine uses the old style) so I put it in the oven for 10 min at 375 degrees. That did not help. I hate to put a pliars to it for fear of damaging the metal. Any thoughts?
kurt
will unscrew. it is locktited on. It is a very hard cap to so a pair of pliers on the end cap and on the rod it is connected to will get the cap off. be sure and locktite it back on. Personally unless your going to the 20.5# set of springs from wolffs, I would just install the outter spring and be done with it. The outter spring does the most work and is meant to be replaced more often to... I doubt if you are going to harm the metal, those peaces are very hard steel. If in doubt just replace the outter and then shoot it like u stole it...
winter5470
09-10-2010, 10:02 AM
Here is what Kahr says:
Dear Mr. Winter,
Good morning. I m sorry but there is no way to separate the inner spring from the guide rod. We do sell both the guide rod and recoil spring as a whole assembly therefor you do not need to buy two separate springs. The part number for the recoil assembly is 005PM9. If you have any other questions please do not hesitate to email me back.
sincerely,
XXX
Kahr Arms
Bawanna
09-10-2010, 10:09 AM
Thats a new one on me. A few here have had that front screw come undone while shooting and had to replace them. Maybe they have addressed that issue by making them permanent.
I'm with Jocko on this one, I'd just replace the outer spring and keep going. Order a complete replacement sometime when your in the mood for a spare and maybe swap the whole thing every 3 or 4th outer spring replacement.
It does most of the work anyhow.
winter5470
09-10-2010, 10:17 AM
Thanks all - I think I will follow Bawanna's advice. I ordered 3 replacement spring sets from Wolff. I will just do the outer and firing pin springs for the next 3 changes. then I will order a new guide rod from Kahr for the 4 th change.
Kurt
wyntrout
09-10-2010, 10:59 AM
I guess that flange and the guide rod are considered a permanent union/bond. Loctite says as much for some of its products... especially the Red version... requiring 500°F heat to break the bond. Wolff doesn't support the PM45 or the P380, yet... I haven't looked today... nope.
http://www.gunsprings.com/index.cfm?page=items&cID=1&mID=29#189
"RECOIL GUIDE ROD SETS Only
Wolff recoil guide rod sets for the Kahr MK9/MK40 are high quality CNC machined components. A corrosion resistant finish protects material. Use with Wolff recoil springs above. Please Note: Not for use in PM (Polymer) series pistols
RECOIL GUIDE ROD SET & RECOIL SPRING COMBINATION
Guide rod set and recoil spring combinations offer a recoil spring and Wolff guide rod system together at a savings over individual prices. Wolff guide rods are non-captive for easy spring changes.
Please Note: Not for use in PM (Polymer) series pistols."
Wynn:)
jocko
09-10-2010, 11:43 AM
Thanks all - I think I will follow Bawanna's advice. I ordered 3 replacement spring sets from Wolff. I will just do the outer and firing pin springs for the next 3 changes. then I will order a new guide rod from Kahr for the 4 th change.
Kurt
a bunch of b. s. from kahr on taking the inner spring apart. It is not easy but it can be done. I personally would not change the striker springs either. Unless the striker spring breaks, you have no fear of it not working. Just a good way to loose some parts. Remember: If it ain't broke don't fix it.
Not a bad idea to replace the entire captive guide rod assembly every 10,000 rounds, You can also just order a new guide rod assembly from kahr and then when you get the spring set from wolffs, you can play with taking the outter end cap off. It is not rocket science.
By the way if it was my Kahr PM9 I would ourder the 20.5# springs from wolffs to and just replace the outter spring as u intend to do...
easy way to take the inner spring end cap off: Clamp the big flat end between two peaces of wood, (tighten down tightly. Now with a pair of vise grips (after some heat appliedto the end cap like a match or heat gun or small torch, then simply unscrew the end cap. reinstall the new spring, clean the threads and with red locktite screw end cap back on.(let cure overnight) U sure in hell ain't gonna break anything by doing this either..
deadhead1971
09-10-2010, 11:53 AM
Winter--
That's what I plan to do. I have replaced just the outter only. I order 3 sets from Wolfy as backups, and they send you the outter and inner springs. I read somewhere that you have to heat up (hair dryer or something) the end of the rod before the redloktite will loosen up.
Do you need to replace the spring because you are having problems or just want to since you are at 1500 rds. I replaced mine around 1400 after having a failure to feed.
And by the way, I was one who had the end cap go flying off. The escapade is discussed here-- http://kahrtalk.com/kahr-tech/863-confounded-flange.html
wyntrout
09-10-2010, 12:02 PM
Winter--
That's what I plan to do. I have replaced just the outter only. I order 3 sets from Wolfy as backups, and they send you the outter and inner springs. I read somewhere that you have to heat up (hair dryer or something) the end of the rod before the redloktite will loosen up.
Do you need to replace the spring because you are having problems or just want to since you are at 1500 rds. I replaced mine around 1400 after having a failure to feed.
And by the way, I was one who had the end cap go flying off. The escapade is discussed here-- http://kahrtalk.com/kahr-tech/863-confounded-flange.html
I amended my earlier post above. Loctite says 500°F to break the Red Loctite bond... it's considered permanent. You need direct flame or a soldering iron.:eek:
Wynn:)
deadhead1971
09-10-2010, 12:23 PM
I don't think my propane gas grill gets that hot. :)
wyntrout
09-10-2010, 12:34 PM
If the threads are properly cleaned before the bond, it's "permanent". After I read the Loctite information, I decided on the green version, but couldn't find Loctite products locally. I wound up with Permatex green, which is a stronger bond than the Loctite version.
The green ones (by design) can be applied to assembled parts and is drawn in by capillary action. It's very light and you'll not be able to use too little... it runs quickly.:eek: Have a paper towel or rag handy.
The instructions say to clean the components, assemble, then apply the green stuff.
Kahr advises the Red for the flange/guide rod... if you really want to mess with that. I can see replacing the outer spring, but when I figure the inner one needs replacement, I'll just buy the whole assembly.
My post on Loctite:
http://kahrtalk.com/kahr-tech/2844-no-loctite-plastic-use.html
Wynn:D
Swat_dude
09-11-2010, 04:43 PM
Robar got mine apart to coat it with NP3Plus so I know it can be done.
winter5470
09-13-2010, 09:49 AM
I got mine apart - very easy. Put in the oven at 375 for 10 min. When cooled down I put the non cap end in the vise between 2 blocks of wood. I then used a pliars to remove the nut/cap. That must be some really hard metal the pliars did not make a mark on the cap/nut.
Kurt
winter5470
09-13-2010, 10:08 AM
Deadhead -
This is my carry gun. I used it at a concealed carry match 2 weeks ago and had a single failure to go into full battery (by 1/4 inch). Believe it or not that was the first time the gun ever did not fire. A very light tap on the slide put it back into battery and I finished the match with no other issues (other than being 1 place away from winning money). When I started to add up the rounds down range I got about 1500 - so I need to change springs.
Kurt
bayoutrigger
09-13-2010, 09:40 PM
First time out a couple of weeks ago with new PM40 the small spring nut went missing. Called Kahr and they sent entire recoil assembly replacement. Over this past weekend my son's PM9, purchased at same time as the PM40 last month, lost spring nut after 500 rounds.
I wrote Kahr tonight and asked them to send me just replacement nut so I can Red Lucite myself to assure this doesn't happen again.
Bawanna
09-13-2010, 10:06 PM
I'd request a whole new unit and a spring nut so you got a spare. Or put the whole new one in and toss the old one.
Seems like that nut should be pinned or something. So far (knock on wood) mine has stayed tight and many apparently do but coming loose and going walk about ain't good.
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