Quarantine Repairs on CW9

[Dylan1317]

So first off Hello, unfortunately my first post here is not such a great one. I’ve been having an issue with my CW9. After spending some time self diagnosing the problem I found that when the trigger is pulled all the way the cocking cam does not catch the firing pin. I don’t see any damage to either. If I pulled the trigger and hold it and rack the slide while pressing down it will catch and function normally. Anyone ever had this issue? Obviously this is while dry firing it, while at the range I usually can only shoot 2-3 shots before it has a FTF. I hope I described this well enough for y’all to understand.

Thanks in advance for any help!
-Dylan

[yqtszhj]

Is this a new gun problem or one that worked well before? I wonder if it worked good until recently if it’s getting dirty behind the trigger bar panel?

[gb6491]

So first off Hello, unfortunately my first post here is not such a great one. I’ve been having an issue with my CW9. After spending some time self diagnosing the problem I found that when the trigger is pulled all the way the cocking cam does not catch the firing pin. I don’t see any damage to either. If I pulled the trigger and hold it and rack the slide while pressing down it will catch and function normally. Anyone ever had this issue? Obviously this is while dry firing it, while at the range I usually can only shoot 2-3 shots before it has a FTF. I hope I described this well enough for y’all to understand.

Thanks in advance for any help!
-Dylan
So, I'm reading this as you are having intermittent failures to fire where the trigger is going all the way to rear and you are not feeling the striker release.
Is that correct?

[Dylan1317]

Just tried your recommendation and unfortunately it is still malfunctioning.
Thanks though.

[Dylan1317]

So, I'm reading this as you are having intermittent failures to fire where the trigger is going all the way to rear and you are not feeling the striker release.
Is that correct?

Yes Sir that is correct. I also have noticed that the lobe on the cocking cam is hitting the slide while trigger is pulled not sure if that’s normal or not but figured I’d throw it out there.

[gb6491]

Yes Sir that is correct. I also have noticed that the lobe on the cocking cam is hitting the slide while trigger is pulled not sure if that’s normal or not but figured I’d throw it out there.
One lobe of the cam depresses the striker block. Is that where you are seeing contact with the slide?
Did you happen to notice if the gun was fully into battery when the failures to fire happened?
With the slide off, does the cam move when you pull the trigger?
If you fully depress the disconnector (top of it even with the side plate), then release it, does it return to full height and will the trigger manipulate the cam?
Here's a photo of my CW9's disconnector at full height:
https://i.postimg.cc/bN33xW13/disconnector-copy.jpg

Regards,
Greg

[Dylan1317]

Yes the contact I’m seeing is right in front of the striker block. I’m going to try and attach some pictures and hopefully that will help a lot.
I do not recall 100% if it returned to battery completely but I do believe it returned to full battery when it would fail.
The cam and the disconnector both seem to be moving smoothly from what I can tell. The disconnector returns and looks like your picture above. However now that you pointed me in the direction of the disconnector I am seeing some what I think is unusual wear. Hopefully the link to the pictures work cause I’m sure I’m not doing the best at describing everything. And also just an FYI this pistol does have around 1500 rounds through it before this started happening.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/BLWXLBT (https://postimg.cc/gallery/BLWXLBT)

[gb6491]

Yes the contact I’m seeing is right in front of the striker block. I’m going to try and attach some pictures and hopefully that will help a lot.
I do not recall 100% if it returned to battery completely but I do believe it returned to full battery when it would fail.
The cam and the disconnector both seem to be moving smoothly from what I can tell. The disconnector returns and looks like your picture above. However now that you pointed me in the direction of the disconnector I am seeing some what I think is unusual wear. Hopefully the link to the pictures work cause I’m sure I’m not doing the best at describing everything. And also just an FYI this pistol does have around 1500 rounds through it before this started happening.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/BLWXLBT (https://postimg.cc/gallery/BLWXLBT)
As you have 1500 rounds through it before the issue occurred, I think the rub mark on the slide is not critical. The condition of the disconnector is more a concern for me. I think that it could occasionally hang up on the slide and not raise enough for the trigger bar to connect with the cam. If it were mine, I would file down the burrs. It also looks like wear has caused a bevel on the disconnector. Is there bevel above the area that I've put red on in the photo below?
https://i.postimg.cc/1XspSF6t/bz-1-copy.jpg (https://postimg.cc/9Rg4trL5)
If so, I'd consider filing the starting point of the bevel down a small amount, but first clean up the burrs and give it a run.
It would probably be a good idea to inspect the cut out portion of the slide's rail for any damage. If it has a sharp edge where the the disconnector sits, you might consider breaking it a bit.
Regards,
Greg

[Dylan1317]

Yeah there is definitely a bevel about the red highlighted area on the disconnector. Much easier to see in person so I got the best picture I could to reflect the bevel. But I will file down the burrs and make it smooth and hopefully get to the range tomorrow and give it a shot. If that doesn’t seem to help I’ll go a little further into smoothing the area out.

Thank you very much for all the help and quick replies Greg!!

[Dylan1317]

So just an update, unfortunately cleaning up those burrs and what not just made it worse. Now it doesn’t catch the firing pin at all unless manually racking the slide and pressing pretty hard in on the slide. So ultimately seems like I’ll have to ship it back to Kahr after this pandemic is over.

[gb6491]

Dang, that's not good. How did you go about removing the burrs?
I worry that I wasn't specific enough about that. Here's hoping you only took material from the side of the disconnector.
Regards,
Greg

[gb6491]

Well, I thought about that more and figure if you removed material from the top that would be more likely to make the trigger not disconnect.

Still, I did look at your photos again and noticed that your disconnector doesn't seem to come up as far as it does on my poly Kahrs.
https://i.postimg.cc/8kBgpMFJ/cam-copy.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Putting damage/excessive wear to the trigger bar aside for the moment, possible causes for this could be debris/dirt/etc under the side plate, bowed side plate, dislodged trigger bar spring, broken/weak trigger bar spring. Let me hunt down my T5 driver and I'll pull a side plate to illustrate.

While I'm at that, as you mention pressing down the slide helps, here's a shot of the striker lobe on my CM9 that you might compare to your gun:
https://i.postimg.cc/dtyPJvw1/lobe.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Regards,
Greg

[Dylan1317]

I used a small Dremel (very lightly.) Tried to not take much material off more or less just tried to get rid of the bur that was there. I removed the side panel and thoroughly cleaned out around the trigger bar and around the cam. So I’m thinking there’s probably an under lying problem with the trigger assembly.

One question for you though, the steel rail on the left side of the striker lobe is that fixed to the polymer? I noticed while cleaning after the range that the front of that doesn’t seem to be connected to the polymer if that makes sense. Takes little to no pressure to move that rail not sure if it’s normal or not. This is my first Kahr.

https://i.postimg.cc/crt2nZ2s/B11-CDE50-8-B32-490-B-82-D4-694153552-F08.jpg (https://postimg.cc/crt2nZ2s)

[Bawanna]

Looks to me like your pointing to the ejector, that's not a rail. And a little movement is ok.

[gb6491]

I used a small Dremel (very lightly.) Tried to not take much material off more or less just tried to get rid of the bur that was there. I removed the side panel and thoroughly cleaned out around the trigger bar and around the cam. So I’m thinking there’s probably an under lying problem with the trigger assembly.

One question for you though, the steel rail on the left side of the striker lobe is that fixed to the polymer? I noticed while cleaning after the range that the front of that doesn’t seem to be connected to the polymer if that makes sense. Takes little to no pressure to move that rail not sure if it’s normal or not. This is my first Kahr.

https://i.postimg.cc/crt2nZ2s/B11-CDE50-8-B32-490-B-82-D4-694153552-F08.jpg (https://postimg.cc/crt2nZ2s)
Thanks for the detailed reply. As you had the side plate off, did the trigger bar look like it was engaging the cam properly? Did the trigger bar spring have adequate tension? Check the spring's clearance in regards to the magazine. Try the action to see if the spring is hanging up anywhere on the trigger bar.

The part in your photo that your tool is touching is the ejector. It's a separate piece that sits in the frame. It is held in place cocking cam and the cocking cam pivot pin. It will have some movement.
Regards,
Greg

Oops, I see Bawanna has given you good info as I was typing and eating, eating and typing.

[gb6491]

To leave no stone unturned, here are a few photos of the striker lobe of the cocking cam on my pistol.
Cam is down in this one:
https://i.postimg.cc/C192Qc55/1-865.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
It is up (as it would be to lift the striker block) in the next three photos:
https://i.postimg.cc/wBrH9c38/4-865.jpg (https://postimg.cc/VSX2RtjD)
https://i.postimg.cc/SKB5ZZJs/3-865.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
https://i.postimg.cc/4dtyKNK3/2-865.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Regards,
Greg

[Dylan1317]

I’m not an expert by any means but to me it all seems to be moving properly and smoothly. Which I know makes no sense. So here’s some pictures just to compare to yours Greg. Seems to all match up but maybe I’ve missed something.

I just can not get the cocking cam to pickup the firing pin unless pressing down on the slide. If I release the trigger and rack it, it’s fine. But under a normal firing order with the trigger pulled it just doesn’t grab the firing pin.
https://i.postimg.cc/2qFjQ1wv/939-FBA1-E-DBFF-4-F77-8-EB5-9471-EBA60-B69.jpg (https://postimg.cc/2qFjQ1wv)


https://i.postimg.cc/jnjjdRyf/94-E788-A0-7-BB4-42-D5-900-A-168-C142-E9-EB1.jpg (https://postimg.cc/jnjjdRyf)


https://i.postimg.cc/mP9grX1m/9-E353-F84-609-F-43-D0-8766-C584-A8-F9040-E.jpg (https://postimg.cc/mP9grX1m)


https://i.postimg.cc/K47zFMbT/D7-B90-D5-D-2-F0-C-40-A5-AA7-C-70-D21045-EC60.jpg (https://postimg.cc/K47zFMbT)


https://i.postimg.cc/r0VVQqnH/E667-DD6-B-86-D6-4-D30-A73-C-88-D746-F840-A2.jpg (https://postimg.cc/r0VVQqnH)

[Dylan1317]

Thanks Bawanna. Had a total brain fart. I should’ve known what that was. LOL

[gb6491]

https://i.postimg.cc/hG4jWsGb/ktb1.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
https://i.postimg.cc/26pKLcBn/ktb2.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
https://i.postimg.cc/sfb4jQ7Z/ktb3.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
https://i.postimg.cc/wB9kCCJf/ktb4.jpg (https://postimg.cc/CR6DD6ck)
https://i.postimg.cc/HsVZk1rV/ktb5.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
https://i.postimg.cc/cH7RJXS9/ktb7.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[gb6491]

I think we both were posting at the same time.
It appears to me that your trigger bar is slightly lower than mine. How does it's interface with the cam compare to that in my photos?

[gb6491]

Dylan,
With the slide off, if you hold the trigger back and depress the trigger bar, does the cam reset quickly and fully?
Regards,
Greg

[yqtszhj]

Good pictures there. Let me see if I can think about this straight and you all tell me if this sounds right

When we shoot our Kahrs it goes kinda like this:
1. We pull the trigger which moves the trigger bar forward rotating the cocking cam and releasing the striker
2. The round goes off, slide moves to the rear pushing down on the disconnector
3. When the disconnector is pushed down it thus moves the trigger bar down, releasing the cocking cam to normal position.
4. The slide moves forward to load the next round with the striker catching on the cocking cam now in normal position, thus cocking the pistol (the trigger bar is still in the pushed down position because the trigger is still pulled.)
5. We release the trigger and the trigger bar goes rearward and into the normal “up” position, behind the cocking cam ready for the next shot.

im thinking like you all that there may be some trigger bar issue. If pushing down when racking the slide results in cocking the pistol then I wonder if that downward pressure presses the disconnector enough to finally release the cocking cam and allow the striker to catch. Like Greg said it looks like the disconnector is sitting a little low. It may have been slightly out spec since the beginning but close enough to function until just recently when it started getting some wear on the top of the disconnector lobe on the trigger bar.

So if it were me what would I do, order another trigger bar and put it in? Or try to modify the existing trigger bar? Hmmm... jury is still out on that one.

[Dylan1317]

This thing is starting to hurt my brain. Lol

https://i.postimg.cc/0rDw9sJ6/2-D2-DD282-3752-4056-B79-A-320-B81468-E50.jpg (https://postimg.cc/0rDw9sJ6)


https://i.postimg.cc/w10NnQR0/6243-B5-D4-BB83-4-B85-BA7-A-26-D64-D529116.jpg (https://postimg.cc/w10NnQR0)


https://i.postimg.cc/4YJt8SyY/7120-D819-D4-A6-4-A0-C-8-EA9-EEBAE465-FFAC.jpg (https://postimg.cc/4YJt8SyY)


https://i.postimg.cc/bs0k9hyX/A3-DEE829-3-A52-4-FE8-BA44-02-A91064-DAF8.jpg (https://postimg.cc/bs0k9hyX)


https://i.postimg.cc/hhd9hmNt/ADCBEDE1-989-C-49-EF-822-D-EB9559-EF7-FCB.jpg (https://postimg.cc/hhd9hmNt)

[Dylan1317]

Sorry pictures got a little out of order.

[Dylan1317]

Dylan,
With the slide off, if you hold the trigger back and depress the trigger bar, does the cam reset quickly and fully?
Regards,
Greg


Yes it resets good. Has an audible click when trigger bar is depressed.

[Dylan1317]

Good pictures there. Let me see if I can think about this straight and you all tell me if this sounds right

When we shoot our Kahrs it goes kinda like this:
1. We pull the trigger which moves the trigger bar forward rotating the cocking cam and releasing the striker
2. The round goes off, slide moves to the rear pushing down on the disconnector
3. When the disconnector is pushed down it thus moves the trigger bar down, releasing the cocking cam to normal position.
4. The slide moves forward to load the next round with the striker catching on the cocking cam now in normal position, thus cocking the pistol (the trigger bar is still in the pushed down position because the trigger is still pulled.)
5. We release the trigger and the trigger bar goes rearward and into the normal “up” position, behind the cocking cam ready for the next shot.

im thinking like you all that there may be some trigger bar issue. If pushing down when racking the slide results in cocking the pistol then I wonder if that downward pressure presses the disconnector enough to finally release the cocking cam and allow the striker to catch. Like Greg said it looks like the disconnector is sitting a little low. It may have been slightly out spec since the beginning but close enough to function until just recently when it started getting some wear on the top of the disconnector lobe on the trigger bar.

So if it were me what would I do, order another trigger bar and put it in? Or try to modify the existing trigger bar? Hmmm... jury is still out on that one.


Just to add a little more info, the disconnector seems to be working fine even when the firing pin isn’t caught. Been racking it with the side panel removed and I can see where the slide hits the disconnector and drops it below the cocking cam then as the trigger is released it resets back up into place. If this helps at all.

[yqtszhj]

Just saw where you answered my post...

[yqtszhj]

Just to add a little more info, the disconnector seems to be working fine even when the firing pin isn’t caught. Been racking it with the side panel removed and I can see where the slide hits the disconnector and drops it below the cocking cam then as the trigger is released it resets back up into place. If this helps at all.

Just saw your answer as I was posting. Sounds like you’re on top of it. Hang in there.

[Dylan1317]

Just saw your answer as I was posting. Sounds like you’re on top of it. Hang in there.


Much appreciated!! Trying to post as many pics as possible, I know I wouldn’t be able to explain it as good without them. Lol (and to get some more eyes on, just in case I miss something)

[gb6491]

Good pictures there. Let me see if I can think about this straight and you all tell me if this sounds right

When we shoot our Kahrs it goes kinda like this:
1. We pull the trigger which moves the trigger bar forward rotating the cocking cam and releasing the striker
2. The round goes off, slide moves to the rear pushing down on the disconnector
3. When the disconnector is pushed down it thus moves the trigger bar down, releasing the cocking cam to normal position.
4. The slide moves forward to load the next round with the striker catching on the cocking cam now in normal position, thus cocking the pistol (the trigger bar is still in the pushed down position because the trigger is still pulled.)
5. We release the trigger and the trigger bar goes rearward and into the normal “up” position, behind the cocking cam ready for the next shot.

im thinking like you all that there may be some trigger bar issue. If pushing down when racking the slide results in cocking the pistol then I wonder if that downward pressure presses the disconnector enough to finally release the cocking cam and allow the striker to catch. Like Greg said it looks like the disconnector is sitting a little low. It may have been slightly out spec since the beginning but close enough to function until just recently when it started getting some wear on the top of the disconnector lobe on the trigger bar.

So if it were me what would I do, order another trigger bar and put it in? Or try to modify the existing trigger bar? Hmmm... jury is still out on that one.
That's how I see it (not the best video):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N_VyZBHGBQ&feature=youtu.be

[gb6491]

Dylan,
How does the striker block lobe of the cam sit when the trigger is held back" The photos I posted earlier show that in my gun the top of the lobe is a very slight amount below the top of the polymer with the trigger held back.

Does your slide have much up/down play?

[Dylan1317]

Dylan,
How does the striker block lobe of the cam sit when the trigger is held back" The photos I posted earlier show that in my gun the top of the lobe is a very slight amount below the top of the polymer with the trigger held back.

Does your slide have much up/down play?

So the striker block lobe on mine sits almost flush with the polymer if not even just a hair above the polymer.

https://i.postimg.cc/9R0VwR31/F8517798-30-D9-4525-8-D35-B27579-DE951-E.jpg (https://postimg.cc/9R0VwR31)

https://i.postimg.cc/34pxL0R1/DC7-EE9-CA-9-A20-4190-9-F5-E-853-F03-C0-BD39.jpg (https://postimg.cc/34pxL0R1)

[Dylan1317]

Almost seems as if the trigger pull is a little to long. If I rack the slide while holding the trigger back at about 90% of its travel it catches the firing pin every time. But once I pull the trigger 100% it doesn’t catch the firing pin anymore.

[gb6491]

If you push the striker lobe of the cam (no trigger, just push on the lobe) towards the rear of the gun does it bind or stick at all? Return okay? Will the ejector interfere with it?

[Dylan1317]

If you push the striker lobe of the cam (no trigger, just push on the lobe) towards the rear of the gun does it bind or stick at all? Return okay? Will the ejector interfere with it?

Yup. Seems to be moving freely and smoothly. And when I release, it snaps back into place. Don’t see any interference with the ejector.

[gb6491]

I'm beginning to wonder if your trigger bar is not being pushed down low enough to prevent it engaging the cam as it is pressed down by the striker passing over it on the backwards part of the recoil stroke.

I see it as the trigger bar is pushed down as the slide moves back, this releases the cam which positions the striker lobe upright, then the striker travels over the lobe pushing it down again, but a correctly positioned trigger bar would be low enough to not catch the lobe, so the lobe would return to the upright, then it would catch the striker as the slide returns forward.

If the bar isn't low enough and catches the cam when the striker lobe is pushed down by striker as the slide travels rearward, holding the trigger back would hold that lobe down and it would not ctach the striker as the slide returns home.

[yqtszhj]

I'm beginning to wonder if your trigger bar is not being pushed down low enough to prevent it engaging the cam as it is pressed down by the striker passing over it on the backwards part of the recoil stroke.

I see it as the trigger bar is pushed down as the slide moves back, this releases the cam which positions the striker lobe upright, then the striker travels over the lobe pushing it down again, but a correctly positioned trigger bar would be low enough to not catch the lobe, so the lobe would return to the upright, then it would catch the striker as the slide returns forward.

If the bar isn't low enough and catches the cam when the striker lobe is pushed down by striker as the slide travels rearward, holding the trigger back would hold that lobe down and it would not ctach the striker as the slide returns home.

Greg is Mr. Photo and Video Extraordinaire. Good stuff. I think Greg is on it about the trigger bar being some issue and it needs to move up enough. The trigger bar as simple as it is controls so many things. Not sure what tweak you could do to get it to rise up just a hair further.

That wear on the top part of the disconnector looks a little out of place too which might be an indicator of the problem but maybe it’s just the lighting.

Now I remember my problem pistol was the CW45 that had a trigger reset issue when hot. My trigger bar was what I’ll just call a hair too Wide where it met the cocking cam. I had to stone about .001 inch off the thing and it never had the problem again.

Dont give up.....

[Dylan1317]

I'm beginning to wonder if your trigger bar is not being pushed down low enough to prevent it engaging the cam as it is pressed down by the striker passing over it on the backwards part of the recoil stroke.

I see it as the trigger bar is pushed down as the slide moves back, this releases the cam which positions the striker lobe upright, then the striker travels over the lobe pushing it down again, but a correctly positioned trigger bar would be low enough to not catch the lobe, so the lobe would return to the upright, then it would catch the striker as the slide returns forward.

If the bar isn't low enough and catches the cam when the striker lobe is pushed down by striker as the slide travels rearward, holding the trigger back would hold that lobe down and it would not ctach the striker as the slide returns home.


So I was doing some thinking while at work today, and who knows if that’s good or bad but here’s my thought. So if you remember some of the earlier pictures I posted we noticed a bur on the front of the disconnector, so I started inspecting the slide and found some wear where the disconnector would meet the slide when the trigger is pulled. So ultimately I was thinking if the slide has worn down enough to where it’s letting the disconnector move to far when pulled could that be a possibility?? Because when I let off the trigger a little and rack it, it all works as it should. Just bouncin an idea off y’all.
Hard to get a good picture but here is a couple pics of the wear in the slide.

https://i.postimg.cc/5HXSkbTV/8221665-F-18-F6-407-C-A52-A-1614607359-B0.jpg (https://postimg.cc/5HXSkbTV)


https://i.postimg.cc/PpmZBxMB/B9119345-5194-4302-9478-E817-E0047511.jpg (https://postimg.cc/PpmZBxMB)

[yqtszhj]

So I was doing some thinking while at work today, and who knows if that’s good or bad but here’s my thought. So if you remember some of the earlier pictures I posted we noticed a bur on the front of the disconnector, so I started inspecting the slide and found some wear where the disconnector would meet the slide when the trigger is pulled. So ultimately I was thinking if the slide has worn down enough to where it’s letting the disconnector move to far when pulled could that be a possibility?? Because when I let off the trigger a little and rack it, it all works as it should. Just bouncin an idea off y’all.
Hard to get a good picture but here is a couple pics of the wear in the slide.

https://i.postimg.cc/5HXSkbTV/8221665-F-18-F6-407-C-A52-A-1614607359-B0.jpg (https://postimg.cc/5HXSkbTV)


https://i.postimg.cc/PpmZBxMB/B9119345-5194-4302-9478-E817-E0047511.jpg (https://postimg.cc/PpmZBxMB)

I think if it came too far forward when the trigger was pulled then didn’t travel rearward far enough after releasing the trigger what you may get is a failure of the trigger bar to engage the cocking cam like it should (no trigger reset) and you’d have a dead trigger. I had that on my CW45 but you could reset the trigger by pushing it forward just a hair. And if I remember it worked OK with the side panel off but failed with the panel on.

You might try pushing the trigger forward when you think it didn’t catch just as a test. If that resets it then there is another avenue to pursue.

[gb6491]

So I was doing some thinking while at work today, and who knows if that’s good or bad but here’s my thought. So if you remember some of the earlier pictures I posted we noticed a bur on the front of the disconnector, so I started inspecting the slide and found some wear where the disconnector would meet the slide when the trigger is pulled. So ultimately I was thinking if the slide has worn down enough to where it’s letting the disconnector move to far when pulled could that be a possibility?? Because when I let off the trigger a little and rack it, it all works as it should. Just bouncin an idea off y’all.
Hard to get a good picture but here is a couple pics of the wear in the slide.

https://i.postimg.cc/5HXSkbTV/8221665-F-18-F6-407-C-A52-A-1614607359-B0.jpg (https://postimg.cc/5HXSkbTV)


https://i.postimg.cc/PpmZBxMB/B9119345-5194-4302-9478-E817-E0047511.jpg (https://postimg.cc/PpmZBxMB)
Were those gouges/divots there when you bought it?
https://i.postimg.cc/8PFFhZFm/divots750-copy.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
On my pistol it appears that the frame has more to do with limiting trigger travel than the slide does


I'm beginning to wonder if your trigger bar is not being pushed down low enough to prevent it engaging the cam as it is pressed down by the striker passing over it on the backwards part of the recoil stroke.

I see it as the trigger bar is pushed down as the slide moves back, this releases the cam which positions the striker lobe upright, then the striker travels over the lobe pushing it down again, but a correctly positioned trigger bar would be low enough to not catch the lobe, so the lobe would return to the upright, then it would catch the striker as the slide returns forward.

If the bar isn't low enough and catches the cam when the striker lobe is pushed down by striker as the slide travels rearward, holding the trigger back would hold that lobe down and it would not ctach the striker as the slide returns home.
I think that post is a bit hard to follow (sorry about that), hopefully this video will more properly explain my thoughts :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFq7vcSsxQ8
I think this falls into line with where you wrote "If I pulled the trigger and hold it and rack the slide while pressing down it will catch and function normally."
If my hypothesis has any merit, perhaps pressing the slide down is depressing the trigger bar far enough for the cam to operate properly.

Regards,
Greg

[Dylan1317]

Were those gouges/divots there when you bought it?
https://i.postimg.cc/8PFFhZFm/divots750-copy.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
On my pistol it appears that the frame has more to do with limiting trigger travel than the slide does


I think that post is a bit hard to follow (sorry about that), hopefully this video will more properly explain my thoughts :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFq7vcSsxQ8
I think this falls into line with where you wrote "If I pulled the trigger and hold it and rack the slide while pressing down it will catch and function normally."
If my hypothesis has any merit, perhaps pressing the slide down is depressing the trigger bar far enough for the cam to operate properly.

Regards,
Greg

So hopefully I’m understanding all this. And hopefully explaining everything well enough. But from what I can tell the cam seems to be working correctly even when it malfunctions (Except for not catching the firing pin when the slide goes forward) . The trigger always resets like normal. While racking it with the side panel off I can see the cam reset when the slide is pulled all the way back. Also if I rack the slide without holding the trigger back it all functions correctly but that doesn’t really simulate a real firing situation because the slide is back to battery well before I could release the trigger.
Also I did just like in the video, pulled the trigger pushed the trigger bar down a little and the cam popped back up.

As for the marks on the slide I honestly do not recall if those have always been there or not. I did buy the gun brand new but it’s been a couple years. She’s been sitting in the safe for quite a while because I just haven’t had the time to try and diagnose the issue until now.

[Dylan1317]

Video quality for some reason seem to drop after uploading but maybe this will help.

https://youtu.be/hlUGdDydZX0

[Dylan1317]

Here’s a video just replicating yours. My screwdriver slipped the first time I tried pressing the trigger bar down. Lol

https://youtu.be/MZUINgZnVSY

[gb6491]

Video quality for some reason seem to drop after uploading but maybe this will help.

https://youtu.be/hlUGdDydZX0
Okay, I'm convinced your trigger bar is not being pushed down enough and is acting pretty much as I tried to show in an earlier video.
I think there are two solid indicators of this:
1. I didn't hear the cocking cam reset where the striker should have passed over it.
2. You trigger bar doesn't appear to move up when the slide goes into battery. This suggests to me that it has the cam captured.
Beyond that my trigger bar seems to move down a bit more in the video below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifXUjjhwEBo
Regards,
Greg

[Dylan1317]

Okay, I'm convinced your trigger bar is not being pushed down enough and is acting pretty much as I tried to show in an earlier video.
I think there are two solid indicators of this:
1. I didn't hear the cocking cam reset where the striker should have passed over it.
2. You trigger bar doesn't appear to move up when the slide goes into battery. This suggests to me that it has the cam captured.
Beyond that my trigger bar seems to move down a bit more in the video below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifXUjjhwEBo
Regards,
Greg

Copy. Thank you for that video. That helped a lot to put everything into perspective and help me understand.
So any thoughts on a solution? New trigger bar? And yes I’m definitely not having that first reset when you first start pulling the slide back.

[yqtszhj]

Good video there Greg.

[gb6491]

Copy. Thank you for that video. That helped a lot to put everything into perspective and help me understand.
So any thoughts on a solution? New trigger bar? And yes I’m definitely not having that first reset when you first start pulling the slide back.
Yes, a new trigger bar is the probable solution.
Still you might give this trigger bar a closer look. Is the disconnector being pushed down by the bottom of the slide rail or is it slipping in between the side of the rail and the frame? Check the tab on the trigger bar that moves the cam for any damage and straightness. I imagine the disconnector could be built up by welding and filed to shape.

Galloway has a video up about replacing the trigger in a poly frame Kahr. Much of that is germane to replacing the trigger bar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvmBBQCd8b0


Good video there Greg.
Thanks:o

[yqtszhj]

.... Still you might give this trigger bar a closer look. Is the disconnector being pushed down by the bottom of the slide rail or is it slipping in between the side of the rail and the frame?

Galloway has a video up about replacing the trigger in a poly frame Kahr. Much of that is germane to replacing the trigger bar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvmBBQCd8b0


Thanks:o


I was thinking the same thing as a Greg about the disconnector slipping in between the side of the rail and the frame based on the wear pattern shown on one of your early pictures. That may be a good thing to check.

I’ve hesitated to say this so far but since the determination has been pretty much made it’s the trigger bar and it looks like you might order one anyway, I’ll say if I saw something where it looked like a slight bend or filing of a part of the trigger bar would make it fit correctly or fix it, I’d have the hammer, a pair of pliers, and a vise and go after it little by little. One word of caution a very minute modification goes a LONG WAY on modifications (don’t ask me how I know.) Also that video Greg mentioned could be very helpful. I haven’t watched it but when I broke mine down it was an exercise in patience and it was very helpful to have a second Kahr as a reference when reassembling the ones I tore apart. It’s not hard but just takes patience.

By the way I like that Bronze colored slide. That looks nice.

[JinRC]

Awesome guys,
Greg and yqtszhj, I think you’ve gone above and beyond with this gentleman. Many would have given up and dismissed him, and sent him towards the manufacturer for service. I give you full credit for hanging in there and trying to help.
To the gentleman having the issues (Dylan1317), that’s how you ask for assistance. You respectfully listened and followed the advice from the people willing to give you a hand. Outstanding communication on all parties. Way to go gentlemen!
I say this in the event that we have any new shooters reading this post. This is how you should be communicating on the forums. Great job guys!
PS. Looking forward to see how this plays out.

[Dylan1317]

Yes, a new trigger bar is the probable solution.
Still you might give this trigger bar a closer look. Is the disconnector being pushed down by the bottom of the slide rail or is it slipping in between the side of the rail and the frame? Check the tab on the trigger bar that moves the cam for any damage and straightness. I imagine the disconnector could be built up by welding and filed to shape.

Galloway has a video up about replacing the trigger in a poly frame Kahr. Much of that is germane to replacing the trigger bar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvmBBQCd8b0


Thanks:o


So I checked up on the pricing for basically all of the trigger assembly, and cocking cam and all the little springs to go with it and I think I’ll get them on order they are fairly inexpensive. I’m not sure I have the patience to weld and shape everything or even the know how of doing it. Which is funny since I weld for a living. Lol
So unless for some reason you don’t think it’s a good idea I think I’ll start there. Just start with some fresh parts, and that will give me the chance to really clean all those hard to reach areas. (Trying to see the bright side) Thanks for that video from Galloway I’m sure that will be very helpful!

[Dylan1317]

I was thinking the same thing as a Greg about the disconnector slipping in between the side of the rail and the frame based on the wear pattern shown on one of your early pictures. That may be a good thing to check.

I’ve hesitated to say this so far but since the determination has been pretty much made it’s the trigger bar and it looks like you might order one anyway, I’ll say if I saw something where it looked like a slight bend or filing of a part of the trigger bar would make it fit correctly or fix it, I’d have the hammer, a pair of pliers, and a vise and go after it little by little. One word of caution a very minute modification goes a LONG WAY on modifications (don’t ask me how I know.) Also that video Greg mentioned could be very helpful. I haven’t watched it but when I broke mine down it was an exercise in patience and it was very helpful to have a second Kahr as a reference when reassembling the ones I tore apart. It’s not hard but just takes patience.

By the way I like that Bronze colored slide. That looks nice.

Yeah I’m going to order some new parts and put my patience to the test and get it done. I think I’ll make things worse if I keep going on trying to make these parts work.

And thanks! I like the stainless Kahrs but figured I’d try something a little different.

[Dylan1317]

Awesome guys,
Greg and yqtszhj, I think you’ve gone above and beyond with this gentleman. Many would have given up and dismissed him, and sent him towards the manufacturer for service. I give you full credit for hanging in there and trying to help.
To the gentleman having the issues (Dylan1317), that’s how you ask for assistance. You respectfully listened and followed the advice from the people willing to give you a hand. Outstanding communication on all parties. Way to go gentlemen!
I say this in the event that we have any new shooters reading this post. This is how you should be communicating on the forums. Great job guys!
PS. Looking forward to see how this plays out.


I hope Greg & yqtszhj Make it to this reply, I couldn’t figure out how to reply with multiple quotes!
Sincerely though I appreciate all the responses I have received from you guys. I am very impressed with the response I received and all the pictures/videos. So thank you Greg especially for how much time and advice you have given me when you did not have too. I was rather hesitate to even post asking for help because I have seen so many people that just don’t receive great replies.
And thank you JinRC for recognizing how great everyone has been.

Im ordering parts now, so when I receive them and install everything I will give everyone an update!!

Cheers & Thank you!!
— Dylan

[yqtszhj]

I hope Greg & yqtszhj Make it to this reply, I couldn’t figure out how to reply with multiple quotes!
Sincerely though I appreciate all the responses I have received from you guys. I am very impressed with the response I received and all the pictures/videos. So thank you Greg especially for how much time and advice you have given me when you did not have too. I was rather hesitate to even post asking for help because I have seen so many people that just don’t receive great replies.
And thank you JinRC for recognizing how great everyone has been.

Im ordering parts now, so when I receive them and install everything I will give everyone an update!!

Cheers & Thank you!!
— Dylan

You're welcome. Anything I shared was just learned from my own trial and error from my inquisitive mind. First thing I tore up was all the light switch plates in our house when I was 5. I cracked them all but it wasn’t my fault. They shouldn’t have left the screwdriver out. Then I “tuned” a transistor radio when I was 6. It Never worked again.

Greg has been fixing stuff since that age.

[gb6491]

Dylan,
You are welcome, but it wasn't all that much. I look forward to reading about how your pistol progresses from here.

I would like to share a thought about removing the trigger axis pin. Push it out from left to right (as viewed from behind the gun) and install it right to left.
My reasoning for this is that there is a small cross pin (that helps retain the axis pin) on the left side of the gun. The axis pin has groove on it that the cross pin intersects with. There is not that much frame material there, so I think it best to limit the amount of stress put on it by the axis pin pushing past the cross pin. Removing/installing the pin as I mention moves the least amount of the axis pin over the cross pin. I also think that is best done on a warm frame vice a cold one.

JinRC,
Thank you.

Regards,
Greg

[Dylan1317]

Dylan,
You are welcome, but it wasn't all that much. I look forward to reading about how your pistol progresses from here.

I would like to share a thought about removing the trigger axis pin. Push it out from left to right (as viewed from behind the gun) and install it right to left.
My reasoning for this is that there is a small cross pin (that helps retain the axis pin) on the left side of the gun. The axis pin has groove on it that the cross pin intersects with. There is not that much frame material there, so I think it best to limit the amount of stress put on it by the axis pin pushing past the cross pin. Removing/installing the pin as I mention moves the least amount of the axis pin over the cross pin. I also think that is best done on a warm frame vice a cold one.

JinRC,
Thank you.

Regards,
Greg

So unfortunately not the news I was hoping to be returning with. After installing all the new trigger parts and what not still no luck. Pretty sure everything is installed properly, cycles just fine when not holding the trigger just like before. And only works when pressing firmly in the rear of the slide. 👎🏼

[gb6491]

So unfortunately not the news I was hoping to be returning with. After installing all the new trigger parts and what not still no luck. Pretty sure everything is installed properly, cycles just fine when not holding the trigger just like before. And only works when pressing firmly in the rear of the slide. 
Darn it, that's not good news. Do you want to go on? Go on with my, it seems somewhat dubious, help?

[Dylan1317]

Darn it, that's not good news. Do you want to go on? Go on with my, it seems somewhat dubious, help?

Im more then open for more suggestions, but I’m starting to wonder if it should be sent back to Kahr? I mean it seems at this point to me there’s something out of spec with either the frame or slide which I’m not fully willing to modify on my own. I’m good with replacing parts but don’t think I’ll do much more then that. I prefer to fix things on my own but just don’t want to make things worse ya know? So if there’s anything that you’ve maybe thought of I’ll definitely investigate more.

[gb6491]

Does your new trigger bar seem to move more than your old one when working the slide like in your "Kahr Cw9" video?

I just looked at that video again: almost frame by frame. It certainly appears to me that the old trigger bar is not dropping enough for the cam to reset.
Starting position:
https://i.postimg.cc/fyyRWHF7/a.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Slide has moved back enough that the cam should have reset, but it's lobe still visible:
https://i.postimg.cc/nzzJqXkp/b.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Slide is much further to the rear, but the cam lobe is still visible:
https://i.postimg.cc/yYWy2sfx/c.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
("lobe" may not be the appropriate term, but that part of the cam being visible gives reference to the cam's position)

I mentioned this earlier, but would like to repeat it: in the still frames it almost looks like the top of the disconnector is, at least partially, between the slide rail and frame. The stills aren't really clear enough to say definitely, but please check out the following post to see if there is any similarity to your gun:http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?1612-CW45-(and-other-poly-Kahr-pistols)-issues-and-fixes&p=354740#post354740 (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?1612-CW45-(and-other-poly-Kahr-pistols)-issues-and-fixes&p=354740#post354740)

Regards,
Greg

[Dylan1317]

Does your new trigger bar seem to move more than your old one when working the slide like in your "Kahr Cw9" video?

I just looked at that video again: almost frame by frame. It certainly appears to me that the old trigger bar is not dropping enough for the cam to reset.
Starting position:
https://i.postimg.cc/fyyRWHF7/a.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Slide has moved back enough that the cam should have reset, but it's lobe still visible:
https://i.postimg.cc/nzzJqXkp/b.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Slide is much further to the rear, but the cam lobe is still visible:
https://i.postimg.cc/yYWy2sfx/c.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
("lobe" may not be the appropriate term, but that part of the cam being visible gives reference to the cam's position)

I mentioned this earlier, but would like to repeat it: in the still frames it almost looks like the top of the disconnector is, at least partially, between the slide rail and frame. The stills aren't really clear enough to say definitely, but please check out the following post to see if there is any similarity to your gun:http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?1612-CW45-(and-other-poly-Kahr-pistols)-issues-and-fixes&p=354740#post354740 (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?1612-CW45-(and-other-poly-Kahr-pistols)-issues-and-fixes&p=354740#post354740)

Regards,
Greg

I read through that post not 100% sure if it’s quite the same or not. The trigger bar is definitely not disengaging the cocking cam though. I will attach a picture of the disconnector with the slide back and I think it’s riding where it is supposed to. The slide seems to be moving smoothly and not catching anywhere. As far as movement of the trigger it seems like the travel is the same. It does feel smoother but I think that’s just because everything is so clean and new. This picture is with all the new parts.

https://i.postimg.cc/yk51TBGN/0-D08-FAE0-8-F6-B-4-C3-B-8-F84-BAF93-CE94-E3-F.jpg (https://postimg.cc/yk51TBGN)

[gb6491]

I read through that post not 100% sure if it’s quite the same or not. The trigger bar is definitely not disengaging the cocking cam though. I will attach a picture of the disconnector with the slide back and I think it’s riding where it is supposed to. The slide seems to be moving smoothly and not catching anywhere. As far as movement of the trigger it seems like the travel is the same. It does feel smoother but I think that’s just because everything is so clean and new. This picture is with all the new parts.

https://i.postimg.cc/yk51TBGN/0-D08-FAE0-8-F6-B-4-C3-B-8-F84-BAF93-CE94-E3-F.jpg (https://postimg.cc/yk51TBGN)
That's it!
Your disconnector is not riding correctly. It should be on the bottom of the slide rail:
https://i.postimg.cc/PJyk4ZVx/disco-copy.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
https://i.postimg.cc/T1gQGBHS/disco-go.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Regards,
Greg

[Dylan1317]

That's it!
Your disconnector is not riding correctly. It should be on the bottom of the slide rail:
https://i.postimg.cc/PJyk4ZVx/disco-copy.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
https://i.postimg.cc/T1gQGBHS/disco-go.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Regards,
Greg

Ohh wow. That makes sense then. Well I will try bending the old one a little and see if that works and if that’s the case I’ll adjust the new one to match and go from there. Looking at my slide and knowing it’s supposed to ride the slide and not in between I see the wear marks from where it used to ride.

https://i.postimg.cc/TLdTT1D0/CFAF02-C7-CFDF-41-ED-832-B-753-DFAC4-DC26.jpg (https://postimg.cc/TLdTT1D0)

So this may be a silly question but is it possible to replace the trigger bar without taking out the trigger spring and bushing? That little thing is a pain the *** to put back in. Lol

[gb6491]

...
So this may be a silly question but is it possible to replace the trigger bar without taking out the trigger spring and bushing? That little thing is a pain the *** to put back in. Lol
Probably not, I don't think there is enough room to disconnect the bar from the trigger without removing those parts. In particular, the spacer is there to prevent the bar from disconnecting from the trigger during use.
Still, give it a look after moving the axis pin a bit.
Regards,
Greg

[Dylan1317]

Probably not, I don't think there is enough room to disconnect the bar from the trigger without removing those parts. In particular, the spacer is there to prevent the bar from disconnecting from the trigger during use.
Still, give it a look after moving the axis pin a bit.
Regards,
Greg

Well great news!! That seem to be the fix!!!
And just in case anyone reads this in the future there is definitely not enough room to remove the trigger bar without removing the bushing. Unfortunately.

Also to note, don’t over tighten the side access panel as that seem to be pressing the disconnect in as well. But ultimately I think you were absolutely correct that the disconnect was not in the correct position. So I removed it, and just used two pairs of pliers to bend the top of the disconnector away from the frame a little and it is now riding on the bottom of the slide and not between the slide and polymer.

Unfortunately I’m not able to go to the range this weekend but I’ll be going next Saturday to test it out and I’ll let you know how it performs.

Thanks again Greg.

—Dylan

[yqtszhj]

That little thing is a pain the *** to put back in. Lol

You got that right.

[Bawanna]

Never gone there myself. Only a couple things I'm skeered of, snakes and that pin. Actually not fond of bee's either if we're looking for weakness's.

[Dylan1317]

Yeah I was a bit nervous to remove it all but I knew I had all the new parts coming so I did it like 5 or 6 times over the last week just as practice and to see what worked best. So now I can do it in just a few minutes but it’s still a pain in the rear.

And hey I’m not a fan of bees either. Lol

[dustnchips]

Should Dylan1317 try to just bend the tab part out a bit to ride on the slide, or do you think he needs to send it in to get the frame and slide checked? I'm a bit like him and would tend to try to fix it myself with a bit of bend. Might be the wrong thing to do.

[yqtszhj]

. So I removed it, and just used two pairs of pliers to bend the top of the disconnector away from the frame a little and it is now riding on the bottom of the slide and not between the slide and polymer.


—Dylan

You know I’ve been thinking about this and I think I had to do it on one of my Kahrs. I can’t remember for sure why but it sticks in the back of my mind that sometime I did.

Dylan, you did well sticking in there until you got it working. Congratulations.

[Dylan1317]

Alright so hopefully this will be the final update! Sorry it has taken so long to get a range day update, unfortunately the night before my originally planned range day I totaled my mustang. So finally made it to the range and shot a couple hundred rounds with no issues. So it seems that bending the top of the disconnector out a little was the solution to my problem!

Thanks again to everyone that helped out. Hopefully one day this will help someone in the future!

—Dylan

[Wlfman13]

Issues such as these drive many people to gun forums.

Solutions like these, with the input/assistance of multiple caring (and knowledgeable) people, while a whole boat-load of well-wishing interested people sit on the sidelines watching and cheering from wherever they are, is why many people stick around at KahrTalk.

Congratulations on sticking with it till the end, Dylan! And, many kudos to Greg and others that provided help.

-Wlf