New PM9 owner and slide lock spring question

[cyclesteel]

Hi, I am a new PM9 owner and just finished the 200 round break-in and have a question or two for the experts. I did experience my slide locking back a few times on a still full magazine and I had 1 failure to enter battery during the break in but I was not paying that much attention and it might have been the slide locking back prematurely. The slide locking problem only occurred on the 7 round magazine and from searching the forums and observing my grip here at home I am pretty sure it was my thumb hitting the slide lock. I was holding the PM9 slightly different with the larger magazine which was positioning my thumb higher at least I hope that was it and I did not buy a lemon.

My question has to do with the slide lock spring. My spring does not sit in the notch on the slide lock ( See pics). Could this cause me any issues and should it be replaced.

Thanks and the PM9 is awesome !!!!!

[wyntrout]

Looking at the first photo, it seems that the screw holding the washer and spring in place is not snug enough. I can see space between the washer/spring/frame. If you have small Torx screwdrivers (#6, I believe), or better, the bits, you can snug that screw down and get a better fit and the groove should be engaged enough by the spring. I like using the bit alone because it's harder to strip the PLASTIC screw hole. I had to replace the one on my PM45 and I was told by Kahr CS to just tighten until I felt resistance. Here's my link with links to two posts with pictures on this:

http://kahrtalk.com/p-cw-series-pistols/3275-new-p380-any-special-fluff-buff-considerations.html#post34206

A loose screw will cause those problems, but I can't emphasize enough that you're screwing metal into PLASTIC and the fix for that is a NEW FRAME if you strip the hole.

Oh, if you need a set of these little bits, check out Harbor Freight Tools or some other inexpensive place. I found sets there from $5 to no more than $10. You don't need Craftsman.:D

Wynn:)

[Bawanna]

Sure looks like the spring is darn near in the groove. Do you feel resistance when pushing the slide lock lever out? Does it just push out with no effort.
That spring moves a little bit and it could be when you put the slide back on it will push that spring into the right place. Might also cure what I mention below also far as that goes.

The tip of the spring towards the back is also not in the little slot as it should be but it's probably still doing it's job. A pair of needle nose and just a slight tweak outboard on that should put it in the right place.

[Bawanna]

Wynn, take another look. It looks like the spring is too far in, not too far out. The stop lever looks like it would have to be pushed in further to engage the spring in the groove.
Cyclesteel, see if that spring feels loose and moves alot. It should move a bit but not a whole lot. A bit as Wynn suggested just to see if theres resistance on the screw should be enough to tell also. I'd avoid tightening it anymore unless it just feels real loose.
Wynns played with these things more than I but I'm seeing it just the opposite. Maybe I better go clean the goggles.

[wyntrout]

:eek: Don't go bending anything until you see if the problem is gone after snugging the screw and washer down. If you still have a problem, or even now, you can take the screw/washer/spring our and lay the spring on the flat side. Everything but the little bent piece that goes into the hole in the frame, should lie flat... or pretty close. The washer should be flat, too. :) See my pictures on those links and see the difference between my warped one and the new replacement. I hadn't "tweaked" the old one, but it was really warped several different ways.

After checking it out, you might try an adjustment. I'm looking at the groove/spring fit. If the spring were flat and snugged up, the spring would keep the slide close to the frame and maybe the free end would be in that little notch. Your photos look like the spring is loose and the slide can work its way out.
Kahr will send you replacements... they aren't expensive... the spring and washer, but you may not need to do anything beyond tightening the screw a bit.

Wynn:)

[cyclesteel]

Thanks for the info Guys.

The spring hits the groove in the slide stop "pin" ( that part that locks the barrel in ) fine and locks it tight in the frame. I was asking about tip as Bawabba45cal said



The tip of the spring towards the back is also not in the little slot as it should be but it's probably still doing it's job. A pair of needle nose and just a slight tweak outboard on that should put it in the right place.

I had the right torx driver and the washer was nice and sung but I could still uses a small flathead screwdriver to move the spring slightly. Just to double check I backed it out a little until the washer was loose and then tightened it up just enough so the washer was snug ( spring still has the same amount of up and down play) I do not want to mess with it too much or my OCD might kick in and I will end up stripping it :( . There is tension in the slide stop with the slide off but if the slide is on ( not racked) I can push the slide stop up until it rests in the slide and it will not return on it’s own. If I rack the slide it does not lock back but I feel as though it could have a little more tension. Does that make sense to you guys. I might not be explainin git correctly.

[wyntrout]

Hey, Bawanna", I'm lookin' at the elephant... you're just looking at the tail. :D

After checking as you have, then a tiny tweak with fine needle-nosed pliers can move that free end over to lie in the groove on the little ledge, like Bawanna' said. I didn't think that the slide lock was getting snugged to the frame enough.

Wynn:hippie:

[texjames]

If that did not fix it, there is a known problem with some ammo
with fat bullets pushing up on the slide stop and locking the slide.
Mine did it on Remington Golden Sabers.There is a thread on it here someplace and fix for me was to clearance the stop slightly.

[hedgehog]

I had a few failures to lock open on empty mags the other day. on a new PM9. is the slide lock supposed to spin freely ? mine does not. I thought only the CW9's had the MIM one peice slide stop. Also on a closed slide my slide stop has a tiny bit of up and down "play" is this normal??

[cyclesteel]

If that did not fix it, there is a known problem with some ammo
with fat bullets pushing up on the slide stop and locking the slide.
Mine did it on Remington Golden Sabers.There is a thread on it here someplace and fix for me was to clearance the stop slightly.

It is not the ammo. I checked that out with the slide off and a loaded magazine. The ammo cleared the slide stop. I am 90% sure it was my grip on the extended mag placing my thumb on or right under the slide stop. But reading through the forum and looking closely at the slide stop spring is when I noticed the tip not sitting in the notch. I will be heading back to the range this week and I will be paying much closer attention to my grip

How much tension should be on the slide stop? With a closed slide if you guys push the slide stop up does the spring push it back down on its own ? Mine does not. But if I rack and lock the slide back then slingshot it ( I know that is not the correct way to load the gun) The spring does it’s job.

I am sure my PM9 Is fine but I get obsessed with new guns and reliability especially a ccw. I will end up giving Kahr a call tomorrow and try to get a new spring. It will make me feel better :)

[Bawanna]

The thumb hitting is quite common. I'd go ahead and see if Kahr will send a new spring and in the mean time, bend that spring justa tad so it's in that groove like it should be. If it works which it apparently does, I'd just save the new spring for posterity rather than take the chance of removing that spring screw. Steel into tupperware should no be done any more that absolutely necessary. If you rack the slide and the lever drops down and lets the slide go back, it's doing it's job.

Hedgehog, the pin doesn't have to spin or rotate, makes no difference at all. If one orders a new one it may be the rotating variety or it may be the 2 piece rotating type. Don't matter at all. My K40 is solid, my PM45 rotates.
Nothing to worry about at all...........

[deadhead1971]

I don't think there is a problem. Mine has a little play with the slide off--just a little.


But if I rack and lock the slide back then slingshot it ( I know that is not the correct way to load the gun)

That is the correct way to load the first round. Or that's what Kahr recommends in their owner's manual. I always do this.

[cyclesteel]

Ok I just called Kahr and spoke to a tech. The tech informed me that the spring tip does not need to be in the notch as long as it is providing downward pressure on the slide stop. I did slightly adjust mine so it fits in the notch last night. I also asked him how tight the stop spring screw should be. He said he usually tightens it down pretty tight then backs it out slightly. The tech also said he has never heard of anybody striping the threads out. I told him I tightened It to where the washer stops moving and he said that is fine as long as it locks back in a empty mag.

I will be going to the range this afternoon to fire off about 100 more rounds. I will be paying munch better attention to my grip this time

[bigmacque]

I don't think there is a problem. Mine has a little play with the slide off--just a little.



That is the correct way to load the first round. Or that's what Kahr recommends in their owner's manual. I always do this.


I'm not sure this is quite exactly accurate, but I do agree that it sounds/reads like that is what Kahr is suggesting in the manual. The manual says use the slide to load the first round, but that could mean simply to release the slide and then pull it forward, thus loading the first round, rather than the 'slingshot' method noted above. Candidly, I'm going to ask Kahr for some clarification on that (haven't shot my brand new PM9 yet). I know it's splitting hairs and I really don't mean to start an argument, I just wonder about the wisdom of releasing the slide and letting it slam forward to load a round.

I think it's possible that Kahr simply wants the shooter to use the slide, rather than load a round in the chamber and then close the slide and pop a mag in. But just my opinion, or perhaps my lack of reading comprehension.

[bigmacque]

Response from Kahr:
Dear Mr. McCarthy,
Good morning. Kahr recommends using the slide lock lever to load the first round. Manually pulling back the slide and "sling shotting it" can cause failures to feed. I hope this answers your question and if you have any others please feel free to email or call us at any time.
sincerely,
Jay
Kahr Arms

[cyclesteel]

Response from Kahr:
Dear Mr. McCarthy,
Good morning. Kahr recommends using the slide lock lever to load the first round. Manually pulling back the slide and "sling shotting it" can cause failures to feed. I hope this answers your question and if you have any others please feel free to email or call us at any time.
sincerely,
Jay
Kahr Arms



Jay is the guy I spoke with this morning also. He was very nice and knew his stuff.

[Bawanna]

Using the slide lock release to chamber a first round has helped numerous new guns around here feed the first round. After break in and a few rounds fired they seem to get better with the slingshot method which seems more natural to me. I think you just can't ease the slide down at all. Rip it back and let it fly and it will chamber. The slide lock method insures this happens.

[wyntrout]

That little slide lock spring is easily bent several ways on insertion and removal. The free end, especially, since it seems kind of random if the little ledge winds up under it. I'm sure that it gets bent inward ever so often, and sometimes winds up under the darn ledge, which is really bad. Knowing how it works really helps keep it healthy, though, so the photos and explanations can really help.
Wynn:)

[deadhead1971]

This is what works for me.

Pull slide back and lock open, insert loaded mag, press slide release lever to sling shot it foward, shoot :)

[wyntrout]

Dang! I had a nice explanation and lost it when I went to look for a link to the "bevel" discussion.
A "slingshot" is where you pull the slide to the rear and release it fully, like a bowstring, so that you're not "riding the slide"... hanging on to it a bit as it goes back to strip a round and chamber it. This can cause loss of forward speed and result in the slide not going fully into battery and and possibly jamming the gun.
The locked slide back and release by the slide lock takes this possibility out of the equation, but when we were having a rash of instances of the "bevel" missing from the lower leading edge of the slide... below the striker pin hole. The bevel allowed the stripper to wind up behind the top cartridge in the magazine, rather than landing on top of it and riding forward on an empty chamber, or a jammed gun. In this case, a proper sling shot could get the stripper behind the top cartridge and chamber a round successfully, after which, the recoil would do that and load the other rounds.
Gotta run... Dr. Appt. Search for the "Bevel" for info and pix.
Wynn:)