Filing down rear sight suggestions?

[Ralph III]

Can anyone give suggestions on filing down the rear sight notch? I have a Kahr S9 with bar dot sights, btw. Anyhow, I just installed a Trijicon front night sight and it causes the gun to shoot high now. Consequently, I need to file down the rear sight slightly in order to get it sighted correctly.

1) Is there a certain file I should use?
2) Is there a certain method I should use?
3) Otherwise, is there an adjustable rear sight for elevation available for Kahr pistols?

Thanks,
Ralph

[Bawanna]

Any file that fits the notch will work. One that is square on the corners and preferably one not too course. I suspect the sight is relatively soft so material should come off pretty easy. An ignition file (some are rounded so won't work) or a small file with cutters on the edge. Usually one side cuts, the other is a safe or smooth edge.

Bearing in mind that you don't want to over do. You can take more off but you can't put it back. Been there a time or two.

[Ralph III]

Thanks Bawanna! Yes, I will probably take a little off and then try it out until it's where I want it.

God Bless,
Ralph

[dao]

I would take the sight off the gun, and then use a mill or bastard file. As the Colonel suggests, a little at a time. If you have a caliper or micrometer measure it first. If possible get the dimension you need beforehand, and then file to it. That way it will be a one and done affair and you can mount it on the gun immediately afterward.

edit: Just thought of something. Are you sure it's the rear sight at fault? If the front sight is wrong and you file the rear sight, only to have the lamps on the front go out later, you'd be stuck having to find another "wrong" front sight.

[Ralph III]

I would take the sight off the gun, and then use a mill or bastard file. As the Colonel suggests, a little at a time. If you have a caliper or micrometer measure it first. If possible get the dimension you need beforehand, and then file to it. That way it will be a one and done affair and you can mount it on the gun immediately afterward.

edit: Just thought of something. Are you sure it's the rear sight at fault? If the front sight is wrong and you file the rear sight, only to have the lamps on the front go out later, you'd be stuck having to find another "wrong" front sight.

Hey DAO. I was thinking about put a mark on the sight to know exactly how much I am taking off. A micrometer would be better though because that will give me an exact measurement in case of a mess up.

The stock Kahr sights are not the issue as they are dead on for me. The issue is with the Trijicon night sights made for the Kahr and sold on Kahr.com.

When I first got the S9 over a year ago it was dead accurate with the stock Kahr sights. After a few months I decided to add a Trijicon front night sight but kept the rear stock sight as I like the bar/dot setup. The gun shot high afterward obviously because the front sight is slightly shorter than the original Kahr stock front sight. I then decided to purchase the rear matching Trijicon night sight assuming maybe they would align correctly. However, the matching set was even worse. At that point, I shipped the Trijicon night sights back to Kahr.com and I re-installed the stock Kahr sights. The gun again was dead on.

Kahr gave me a credit, so I decided to purchase another Trijicon front night sight in hopes it would be properly aligned. Otherwise, if it again shot high I would elect to file down the rear sight slightly. Well, it's been about 9 months and I decided to finally install the new Trijicon front night sight. Precisely as before, the gun is now shooting high although it is not as bad as the first time. It's maybe 1/2 in rise for every 10 ft or so. So at 20ft I am 1 in high and at 40 ft I am 2 in high.

My S9 does not have the dove tail cut for the front sight so I have no options for night sights other than the Trijicon sold on Kahr.com. I absolutely love the gun but I would have probably gone with a P9 had I known the sight limitations.

God Bless,
Ralph

[Bawanna]

2" high at 40 ft I'm not sure I'd even mess with it. It won't take much filing to get it back on.

[Ralph III]

2" high at 40 ft I'm not sure I'd even mess with it. It won't take much filing to get it back on.

Maybe so. I'd rather it be spot on as it always has been though and being comfortable with your gun setup is vital, IMHO. I practice a few rounds each outing from even greater distances finishing out at 80ft and 90ft. At that point it is four and five inches high. As you stated, it won't take much filing so that is my plan.

Ralph

[dao]

Is this the old style dovetail Ralph (pre Nov. 2004)? Or the newer cut? I ask because I was able to find a set of the older style TruDot sights, but brand new sights from Meprolight in December of last year. I needed them for my Elite 2000 MK9. Of course I haven't shot it since so I can't swear to the alignment being where it should be, though it looks right on my laser bore sighter.

[Ralph III]

Is this the old style dovetail Ralph (pre Nov. 2004)? Or the newer cut? I ask because I was able to find a set of the older style TruDot sights, but brand new sights from Meprolight in December of last year. I needed them for my Elite 2000 MK9. Of course I haven't shot it since so I can't swear to the alignment being where it should be, though it looks right on my laser bore sighter.

The S9 has the newer dovetail cut for the rear sight. The front sight just has the two pin holes of course.

Ralph

[dao]

Oh, right. I was thinking CW9 for some reason. But then again I'm not sure those were out there pre-2005

[guido4198]

2" high at 40 ft I'm not sure I'd even mess with it. It won't take much filing to get it back on.
THIS.
On a Colt Gold Cup match pistol...that kind of p.o.i. shift would require attention. On a carry gun, using practical practice protocols...I doubt I'd even notice it, or care if I did.

[Ralph III]

THIS.
On a Colt Gold Cup match pistol...that kind of p.o.i. shift would require attention. On a carry gun, using practical practice protocols...I doubt I'd even notice it, or care if I did.

Maybe so but I'm used to being precise and being able to make precise shots if necessary. Secondly, I help with Church security and there are areas 40ft and 60ft away from where I sit. Consequently, I need to be able to cover those areas in case something terrible ever went down, God forbid. I also have a family to protect. So this isn't just about personal protection or a simple desire to be able to put holes in the center of a paper target. I need to have confidence my pistol is at least capable of great accuracy. I highly doubt Jack Wilson's firearm was shooting 3in high at 50ft when he acted to protect parishioners in his Church with a single head shot at that distance. Irrespective of that, I am used to hitting where I aim and so a little tweak is at hand with my Kahr S9.

God Bless,
Ralph

[finpro]

I suggest that you find a very flat surface, like a glass table top, and tape a sheet of 600 grit sandpaper to it. Place the slide of your S9 on the surface with only the rear sight on the sandpaper. Work the slide gently back and forth, keeping the slide as perpendicular to the surface as possible and not sanding the front sight at all. To drop the POI 2" at 40', you should remove about 2/100" from the rear sight. I suggest you remove just half of that and check the result at the range. Then proceed as the result indicates.
Since you want as much accuracy as possible, I suggest you lighten the trigger also. I have had good results with MCARBO spring sets with my Kahrs and recommend them.

There is an adjustable sight for Kahrs. You can see it at: https://www.opticsplanet.com/meprolight-kahr-k-p-mk-pm-pistol-ad-com-night-sight.html . I have one on a K9, but I am not sure I like it.

I would keep an open mind on whether a Kahr is the best choice for super accuracy at 60 feet. My opinion is that it is not. For roughly the same size for discrete church carry, I think you would do better with a Sig Sauer P365 XL, which has a better trigger, many more rounds and can have a red dot sight. I know I shoot my P365 XL better than my Kahrs. Of course, there are many more choices with slightly larger guns.

I hope this helps. Good luck.

[Canine Dave]

Maybe so but I'm used to being precise and being able to make precise shots if necessary. Secondly, I help with Church security and there are areas 40ft and 60ft away from where I sit. Consequently, I need to be able to cover those areas in case something terrible ever went down, God forbid. I also have a family to protect. So this isn't just about personal protection or a simple desire to be able to put holes in the center of a paper target. I need to have confidence my pistol is at least capable of great accuracy. I highly doubt Jack Wilson's firearm was shooting 3in high at 50ft when he acted to protect parishioners in his Church with a single head shot at that distance. Irrespective of that, I am used to hitting where I aim and so a little tweak is at hand with my Kahr S9.

God Bless,
Ralph


Without doing anything, you can still be precise, bit not accurate.

[getsome]

I agree with finpro that a Sig P365 XL might be a better choice for a security weapon where a longer shot and more rounds might be necessary, I believe that Jack Wilson carried a Sig 229 in .357 Sig caliber....Before doing anything to your Kahr have you tried using lighter weight bullets to see if the poi comes down? My PM9 seems to like 124 grain ammo and I have tried 115 grain loads and they hit slightly lower, 147 grain ammo sometimes won't feed as well due to longer bullets so I stick to 124 grain Sig V Crown loads.....Give lighter weight bullets a try to see if it helps and there are even lighter weight non expanding loads like the Black Hills Honey Badger rounds with 100 grain bullets you could try if you can find them....Good luck and if the lighter bullets don't work you can always go to the file.....

[Bawanna]

I suggest that you find a very flat surface, like a glass table top, and tape a sheet of 600 grit sandpaper to it. Place the slide of your S9 on the surface with only the rear sight on the sandpaper. Work the slide gently back and forth, keeping the slide as perpendicular to the surface as possible and not sanding the front sight at all. To drop the POI 2" at 40', you should remove about 2/100" from the rear sight. I suggest you remove just half of that and check the result at the range. Then proceed as the result indicates.
Since you want as much accuracy as possible, I suggest you lighten the trigger also. I have had good results with MCARBO spring sets with my Kahrs and recommend them.

There is an adjustable sight for Kahrs. You can see it at: https://www.opticsplanet.com/meprolight-kahr-k-p-mk-pm-pistol-ad-com-night-sight.html . I have one on a K9, but I am not sure I like it.

I would keep an open mind on whether a Kahr is the best choice for super accuracy at 60 feet. My opinion is that it is not. For roughly the same size for discrete church carry, I think you would do better with a Sig Sauer P365 XL, which has a better trigger, many more rounds and can have a red dot sight. I know I shoot my P365 XL better than my Kahrs. Of course, there are many more choices with slightly larger guns.

I hope this helps. Good luck.

This sanding method wouldn't effect the notch in the rear sight which would seem important.

[finpro]

Thinking about this further, you also might consider adding a green laser to your S9's rail mount. You can adjust these independently of your iron sights and shoot without raising the pistol to your line of sight, if necessary. Green lasers, though more expensive and having shorter battery lives than red ones, can be seen better in daylight, making them more useful for your church duties. I have not used one beyond practice, but these give a lot of confidence, especially with a small pistols at longer distances. It might also have a deterrent value to convince prospective attacker(s) that you are armed, trained, and competent, and that a defensive gun use would likely end badly. Obviously, the best defensive shot is the one that you do not have to take, but which serves to end the encounter safely. Anything you can use to bring that about is worth considering. If you have never tried a laser sight, this would be a good time to do so.

[Canine Dave]

Without doing anything, you can still be precise, bit not accurate.

17114

My old B-52 SAC Wing.

[Ralph III]

Hello Everyone!

I have already filed the rear sight down and it turned out really well. I figured I needed about 1/64th of an inch taken off but I took off slightly less than that. I plan on testing the accuracy tomorrow, so we shall see.

In regards to firearms. I've been shooting for about 50 years and I spent about 6 months thoroughly researching ccw pistols a few years ago. I handled quite a few and have shot quite a few. To make a long story short. None of them compared to the Kahr trigger system which allows me to be very precise. I did consider the P365 but I didn't care for the trigger nor the grip. The P365 XL would most likely feel better but it doesn't meet my criteria for a ccw weapon due to size/weight.

I then discovered Kahr and the trigger was night and day superior to all the rest of the striker fired guns, IMHO. I went with the Kahr S9 and I have found it to be a phenomenal pistol and very accurate. My trigger has a 5.5# pull and is extremely smooth. There is no reason to consider a trigger kit considering that.

I consider pistol lasers to be gimmicky and in fact a dangerous hindrance. You're never going to find that tiny dot in a high pressure situation. Otherwise, you'd be much more apt in quickly getting your front sight naturally on target. The laser will also give your position away when in dim lighting. Lastly, I noted that no LE agencies utilizes them for many of the reasons I just pointed out.

In regards to ammo. I have ran 115gr FMJ and 125gr FMJ as well as hollow points. The Kahr sights are spot on but the front Trijicon sights shoot high. That was my initial experience with them and that is again confirmed this time around.

I will let y'all know how the accuracy works out tomorrow.

God Bless,
Ralph

[Canine Dave]

Maybe a rifle from the balcony?

[Ralph III]

Maybe a rifle from the balcony?

Canine, if you have something productive to add that would be most appreciated. I'm obviously not going to be carrying a rifle for church security nor would I carry a rifle as a ccw weapon while out with my family. So please keep it realistic.

Thanks,
Ralph

[Canine Dave]

Canine, if you have something productive to add that would be most appreciated. I'm obviously not going to be carrying a rifle for church security nor would I carry a rifle as a ccw weapon while out with my family. So please keep it realistic.

Thanks,
Ralph

I apologize.

[Ralph III]

I apologize.

No, problem.

Ralph

[Ralph III]

So I was able to test the sights out yesterday and they are very close to being spot on now. I think I filed down right around 1/50th of an inch on the rear sight so finpro was spot on with his calculations! I was shooting DTX 115gr FMJ. I meant to bring my pistol rest but I forgot it so I used a table and a towel for the supported shots.

*I managed a 2 3/4in grouping at 40 ft while supporting my pistol (7 rds). This grouping was slightly high but I always seem to shoot higher when using a pistol rest or support? So I consider this acceptable.

*I managed a 3 3/4in grouping at 40ft shooting freehand (13 rds). This grouping was generally bullseye centered. I had 6 rds slightly low with 4 rds in the bullseye. I had 7 rds slightly high with 1 rd in the bullseye.


I would like an honest opinion on the groupings. Do y'all consider the groupings from 40ft to be excellent, good, or sufficient results with a subcompact Kahr? I think the i-dot sights allow for a combination of speed and accuracy. They don't seem as conducive for highly consistent and precise shots though? I'm just trying to gauge my progress and expectations with this pistol. If you can get tighter groupings please tell me. If you cannot get tighter groupings then don't worry about saying so. I realize these guns are set up for speed and accuracy. I've always considered myself a very accurate shooter but I am poor with speed. The later is something that I've only just started working on this past year.

God Bless,
Ralph

[finpro]

Roughly half of your shots are really good. All of your rested shots are above the target midpoint and very well centered. Your freehand target is shot lower and mostly left of center. If you are right-handed, this is a common tendency with Kahr pistols. Shooters tend to pull their POIs lower and to their weak side. (If you are not right-handed, ignore all of this.) You might practice trigger press absolutely straight back, avoiding any tendency to push the POA to the left. It helped me to have the rear of the weak hand below the rear of the trigger guard and more forward, not holding the grip hand, and turned in a way that it is holding very firmly to prevent any downward or sideways push of the pistol.
You can buy very inexpensive sighting lasers in the form of a cartridge that can show how stable you are holding your POA. This is good, cheap practice. Regular laser sights do the same thing, of course, even if you don't want to carry with it.
I think you should practice trigger press and weak hand grip to see if it helps. You may find that you are still shooting higher than you like and you may want to lower the POI some more.

[berettabone]

I would say that it's sufficient for defensive purposes..................once you get more time with the trigger, it will get better. I always had the same issue with Kahr triggers. Low and left. IMHO, with Kahr triggers, you really need to be able to separate your trigger finger from anything/everything else. Like it's a separate entity. Concentrating on that seemed to help me with accuracy. I've always liked the dot sights..................................

[Ralph III]

Hello Everyone!

I was just curious to know what type of groupings you get? I wasn't looking for critique because I didn't provide details for that.

I don't have an issue with pulling shots down and to the left or any such issues. I developed exceptional trigger control at a very young age even with revolvers. So the longish Kahr trigger pull doesn't phase me. In fact, I think it helps with accuracy because my goal is to have the shot release as I am drifting back onto the bullseye in coping with natural wobble.

In regards to perceived issues......

1) At times I was aiming from the valley of the i-dot sights and at times I was aiming from the tops of the sights. I needed to see if they were close or whether one needed to be filed more than the other. The tops of the rear sight are slightly off.

2) I was changing my grip at times to see if I could create tighter groupings. At times I would put my index finger on the front of the trigger guard whereas the rest of the time I shot with my normal grip. This was simply out of curiosity with this pistol.

3) I am having an issue discerning exactly where the "dot" falls on top of the "i". So I am pressed to see whether I am slightly left/right or high/low on my sight alignment. It is somewhat blurry to me so I will be painting the rear sight a different color.

So I was trying a few things and that was causing some slight consistency issues, no biggie. Below is an image of my 14 shot grouping from 30ft. I managed a 2 1/8in grouping with Federal HST 124 grain hollow points (7rds). I managed a 2 3/4in grouping with the DTX 115 grain FMJ (7rds). Both are perfectly centered with the Federal 124gr consistently but only slightly higher than the 115gr.

Anyhow, I am just curious to know what kind of groupings you get in order to judge my progression? As it stands, I am very satisfied with the accuracy of the S9 but I know there is room for improvement. That is why I was curious to know what type of groupings you are getting?

Thanks,
Ralph

[Bawanna]

Is not nearly that good a viable answer. I'd be tickled with consistent groups such as those.

[getsome]

Bingo.....I'd be more than happy with that group, well within minute of thug.....

[IDisposable]

8+1 from my S9 at 20ft using Federal Eagle 124gr FMJhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201029/364b271f8ff7e8a249adcf032b11f33e.jpg

[finpro]

For your best accuracy, I suggest you find whatever sight arrangement works best for your eyes. Some feel that the POI should be centered beneath the front dot when the front sight is level and centered with the top of the rear sight. There was formerly, and may still be, an explanation of this on the Sig Sauer website. Heckler & Koch pistols seem to use this, as well. I am not sure what Kahr says about this currently. This arrangement limits the vision of the POI as it is under the front sight. FWIW, I prefer the sights of a defensive pistol cover the least of the target, by having the POI at the top center of the front sight when centered and level with the top of the rear sight. This means ignoring the white dots during daylight. I prefer the sight picture cover less of the target with a narrower front sight and a wider rear opening and both sights tapering somewhat at their tops. I would be curious about what others think about this.
I concur with those who said this was fine for defense. For your needs, I think you should figure out what sight picture works best for you and adjust the rear sight accordingly. Since this is a defensive pistol and you are concerned about speed, you may want to make adjustments in favor of additional speed, rather than more accuracy, which already seems more than adequate.

[Ralph III]

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

Finpro, in regards to the sights and sight picture. I have always had 3 dot sights with a small front sight which is conducive for precision shooting but slower with target acquisition. The ccw weapons of today have larger and pronounced front sights which is conducive for fast target acquisition but less conducive for precision shooting, especially at greater distances.

Even though I have never had i-dot sights I am really liking them on my ccw weapon. I've been practicing some rapid fire drills this past year and they work exceptionally well for that. I just need to paint the rear sight a different color so I can discern between it and the front sight. Once I get my sights set up exactly as desired then I feel the precision and consistency will only continue to improve.

God Bless,
Ralph

[berettabone]

I could drive myself crazy, trying to hold tight groupings at 30' with a small defensive firearm. I was fairly accurate with a Kahr and liked the sights. Personally, I am most accurate using Big Dot sights and using a"combat" sight pic, covering the target completely. I believe that this might be the hold that has been previously mentioned. That's a part of what makes shooting interesting and challenging. Technically speaking, with shooters, no two sight pics are alike due to so many variables.