Best results from 80ft thus far!

[Ralph III]

Hello All,
I just wanted to post some accuracy results with my Walther P22 and my ccw Kahr S9 from yesterday. All shots are from 80ft and free hand, 5 rds. I did however lean my hip against my golf cart for one target to see if I could improve my balance. This is all of the shooting I did from 80ft so there was no cherry picking.

Image 1. P22 80ft 7.0in grouping (5 rds). Target oriented 45 degree's.

Image 2. P22 80ft 5 1/4 in grouping (5 rds). Target oriented 45 degree's.

Image 3. P22 80ft 4 1/8 in grouping (5 rds). Target oriented 45 degree's. This is the best freehand and fully unassisted grouping that I got with the stock P22.

Image 4. P22 80ft 3 3/8 in grouping (5 rds). Target oriented normal. This is the best overall grouping that I got with the P22. Note: I was leaning my hip against my golf cart for added stability with this grouping. So my golf cart did assist me some.

Image 5. Kahr S9 (9mm) 80ft 3 3/4 in grouping (5 rds). Freehand, no assistance.

I am very pleased with the results with both guns. I was actually more accurate with my Kahr 9mm as I prefer the long DA and smooth trigger system. I love that trigger and it helps with my aiming process. Anyhow, this is as accurate as I have been from 80ft with my pistols.

I still have some room for improvement though so some suggestions would be appreciated. My upper body (arms & grip) are strong and very stable. I also have a phenomenal trigger pull and excellent timing. However, my lower body and balance is not as strong. I am losing my balance slightly at times and at that point I am using my timing to pull off the shot. All of us suffer from wobble but my wobble isn't from my upper body. It is from my lower body. Any tips on making my stance slightly stronger? I use a Weaver or Fighters stance and I have tried adjusting my footwork some but any other advice would be appreciated. Maybe I am standing upright to much and the pistol recoil is causing the slight balance issue? Anyhow, your input on the results and improving my balance would be appreciated.

Merry Christmas,
Ralph

[berettabone]

You had better shots without leaning against the cart IMHO. No offense, but I think that some more trigger work could be in order. You'll find a way to compensate for your lower body. Wear glasses?????? I know that when I switched to Big Dot sights, it helped my accuracy immensely. If your older, like me, the balance thing eventually becomes somewhat of an issue. I try to lean in a bit more forward towards the target. It may not make me any more accurate, but I feel more stable.

[gb6491]

Near 4 inch (sub 4" with the 9) groups at 26.6 yards ..offhand...I'd say you did well with both of those guns...especially the P22:yo:
Regards,
Greg

[Ralph III]

Thanks for the reply berettabone.

I have to disagree that trigger control is part of the issue though and no offense was taken. I perfected trigger control many decades ago as a teenager and it remains as such. That's not to say we shouldn't practice trigger control because we should but it's not an issue with me. Trigger control is just a matter of pulling the trigger straight back in a smooth and consistent fashion while being sure the trigger finger is isolated and that the grip is consistent and firm. A stronger grip is required for rapid fire but a softer grip should be used for precision fire, as that reduces unnecessary hand tension. Trigger control issues would result in consistency issues as well and that is something I do not suffer from at all, no matter the weapon. This comes with nearly 50 years of shooting. Not many people can immediately go from a short SA pistol trigger in .22 cal to a long DA pistol trigger in 9mm and still maintain complete consistency and accuracy, so consider that.

My challenge in creating even stronger groupings is essentially due to timing and fatigue. It's difficult to run an entire magazine of 10 rds without introducing some movement due to the challenges of breathing and balance over that extended period of time. Consequently, timing the release becomes even more vitally important. We all have some wobble. If I release the shot as I am wobbling back toward the bullseye then the grouping will be tight. However, if I release the shot as I am wobbling away from the bullseye then the grouping will suffer. When that occurs I should just wait a split second longer as I am adjusting back onto target or I should just completely reset.

When you shoot from longer distances with a pistol, such as 80 ft, then those issues are compounded. That is why I shot 5 rd groupings this time instead of my normal 10 rd groupings. I am averaging between 7in and 8in with my 10 rd groupings but I significantly improved my groupings by limiting them to 5 rds.

You are also incorrect on the one grouping in which I braced myself against my golf cart. That was by far the best 5 rd grouping I managed at 3 3/8 of an inch. I consider that excellent because the Walther P22 with 3.42in barrel can only create at best about 2in groupings from a vice. This comes from several prominent Walther owners. One who has performed significant modifications for Walther pistols with extensive knowledge on the P22 and one prominent shooter who shoots his P22 in competition. He creates 2in groupings with his modified P22 with a 5in barrel at 80ft. They consider a 3 3/8 grouping from a stock P22 with a 3.42in barrel quite good. The ammo will have some accuracy limitations as well. Anyhow, I was able to be more precise leaning against the golf cart because I eliminated the loss of balance as I was speaking of. If I can strengthen and better stabilize my lower body then I feel I can improve upon those groupings. That is really my biggest challenge at the moment. If I can do that then my wobble would be reduced significantly. So any suggestions on better stabilizing my stance (lower body) would be helpful. I appreciate the input.

Merry Christmas,
Ralph

[Ralph III]

Near 4 inch (sub 4" with the 9) groups at 26.6 yards ..offhand...I'd say you did well with both of those guns...especially the P22:yo:
Regards,
Greg

Thanks Greg!

[kwh]

Excellent shooting. Wish that at 74 years I could do nearly as well.
I can only offer advise that has helped me for strength and coordination of lower body.
Strength training if not already doing so. Squats & planks (with forearms resting on ground) help me the most with "core" strength. Abdominal crunches and leg lifts are next. At my age form must be perfect or I will do more harm than good.
What has helped me tremendously is Yoga. I always thought it was for sissies. I can assure you it is not. I started out with classes using Silver Sneakers Medicare at my YMCA. Instructors were great. Since Pandemic I am doing mostly at home on youtube, but it is not the same.
Benefits :: How to breathe, how to calm mind, Balance!!!, core strength and muscle stabilization.
Core strength and balance are essential for us Seniors, as falls with hip fractures are an indirect leading cause of death.
True Meditation is not what I thought it was either. Good classes on Yoga Mediation has been a great help to me on my bad home sequestering days. Yes I go to virtual Presbyterian Church also.
Namaste ; Merry Christmas
Ken

[topgun1953]

Excellent shooting. Wish that at 74 years I could do nearly as well.
I can only offer advise that has helped me for strength and coordination of lower body.
Strength training if not already doing so. Squats & planks (with forearms resting on ground) help me the most with "core" strength. Abdominal crunches and leg lifts are next. At my age form must be perfect or I will do more harm than good.
What has helped me tremendously is Yoga. I always thought it was for sissies. I can assure you it is not. I started out with classes using Silver Sneakers Medicare at my YMCA. Instructors were great. Since Pandemic I am doing mostly at home on youtube, but it is not the same.
Benefits :: How to breathe, how to calm mind, Balance!!!, core strength and muscle stabilization.
Core strength and balance are essential for us Seniors, as falls with hip fractures are an indirect leading cause of death.
True Meditation is not what I thought it was either. Good classes on Yoga Mediation has been a great help to me on my bad home sequestering days. Yes I go to virtual Presbyterian Church also.
Namaste ; Merry Christmas
Ken

Ken, you are so correct. At 67, and a lifetime runner (now jogger), I aim to maintain strength and balance in the lower body as I age. Mobility is everything.