PM4543N Packed

[dao]

Anyone know what the word Packed means in Kahr-ese? It's something I've been seeing of late, though it may very have been around for quite awhile, not sure.

Anyway, I was able to pick up my new PM45 today from the LGS. Gun came with TruGlo Tritium/Fiber Optic sights, and three mags. Background check took 3 days this time around. Got it home and took the slide completely apart as there looked to be a bunch of crud on the striker plunger and spring. Turned out that it was only on those parts, the channel itself and the striker assembly were fine. I pulled the extractor out and blew some air through that channel also. All in all it was pretty clean though the frame looks pretty rough along the edges of the rails, quite a bit of flash to remove.

I put it back together after polishing the barrel. Installed an Arachnigrip to help me rack it. Cycled it 300 times and it's now sitting with the slide locked back. I'll likely get it to the range next week.

Only have one anomaly. With a brass-based snap cap in it the slide is very hard to pull back in order to eject the cap. It seems to be getting slightly easier, but the first few times I had to put the front of the slide against a plastic cutting board to get it to pull the snap cap out of the chamber. I've used this cap on other guns with no issues. Any ideas on this? I believe I have the plunger, spring, retaining pin, and ejector in correctly, with the long side of the retaining pin on the outboard side of the ejector. The ejector sits nearly flush with the slide when the gun is empty and sticks out a bit with the snap cap in the chamber.

Trigger is buttery smooth as it should be and a five pull average was 5lbs, 13oz. No creaking so they must have polished the trigger bar nicely. The gun is just a perfect size. Hopefully I'll like how it handles, and can be accurate with it.

[Bawanna]

Wonder if the snap cap is just a tad long and is hanging on the rifling?

I've always figured "Packed" meant the 3rd magazine, no other extra's that I can think of off hand.

[dao]

Well, this is the only 3" barrel that I've had the snapcap in so it's possible, though I don't see any abrasions on that end of it. At first I wasn't able to move the slide more than a quarter inch rearward by hand. After using the cutting board a few times I was able to muscle it back by hand only, so hopefully it's just needing to be cycled under power. I did notice a burr that is more of an overlap in the slide where the ejector rides when I had it all apart. It is at the spot where the ejector body makes the inward 90º turn. It's not big, probably no more than 1/64th or so. I didn't want to try and remove it then. But its position is such that it would keep the extractor from getting as close to the casing as it would if it wasn't there, so I'm not sure that it's affecting anything. Time will tell. If it hangs up at the range, I may take it apart again when I return home and see if I can dislodge it. I wish I had some spent brass to work with. I've been donating mine to the range of late.

Makes sense about the term packed maybe meaning 3 mags. I'm pretty tickled with the purchase. New PM45 with factory night sights and 3 mags for $535 before tax and FFL fee. That's less than I paid for my PM9 back in 2003, and it came without night sights. Some Kahrs are going for a lot less these days.

[Bobshouse]

Try the plink test by dropping the round directly into the chamber. If it binds try a real round, if it binds, you might have a problem.

[Bawanna]

True, barrel length matter not. It's the chamber or free bore that might be messing with you. I'd lock the slide open, put the dummy round in the chamber as Bobshouse suggested. I give it a little push to make sure it's home, then tip the gun breech end down, the round should pretty much just fall out. A live round should definitely fall right out.

My PM45 trigger improved a bit with a few rounds through it. I measured it later on when I ordered a 5# striker spring and it was already pretty close to 5# so didn't make much difference.

[dao]

Good call, thank you! A live round drops nearly all the way in, needing just a light touch to seat, and comes out easily. That particular cap had to be pushed in forcefully with my finger, and comes out hard. I tried a new cap from the same package it goes in and comes out nearly as easily as a live round.

Something kind of strange is that the ejector seems to stick out farther with a round, live or a cap, in the chamber than I'm used to seeing. I'm not a gunsmith by any stretch, but there doesn't seem like there's a way for those four parts to be in wrong or misaligned, other than making sure the beveled portion of the retaining pin slides over the extractor itself. Am I missing something there?

I'll take it outside tomorrow with a full mag and cycle them through the gun to see what happens.

[DJK11]

First off Merry Christmas. Second the extractor protrusion with a chambered round is Kahr’s version of the “loaded chamber indicator”. Not sure if they still mention that in the literature. The PM45 is the finest subcompact 45 made, period. Also every Kahr I’ve purchased says “packed” even back when they shipped with two mags.

We need to get to the bottom of this.

[dao]

Merry Christmas to you!

Well, of all the Kahrs I've owned this is my first Kahr .45 and also the first where I have noticed the extractor sticking out as far as it is. This is my tenth so I've got a fairly large sample set to compare it to. Now it could be that I haven't noticed it before, but I don't think so. I'll check a couple of things later today, those being what it looks like with live rounds in it, and also what this brand of caps does to other Kahrs I have, in different calibers. I've yet to put the gun into battery with a live round because at this point I don't want to do that in the house. If I can't find a logical reason why this extractor is protruding as far as it is I'll probably post some pictures because you're right I need to get to the bottom of it. Thanks!

As far as the Packed goes I'll have to check the boxes of those that I still have. I'm getting old, so like meeting the same "new" people every day it could just be my mind playing tricks on me :)

[gb6491]

If you don't want to chamber a live round inside, maybe pull the slide off and slide a live round and snap cap up under the extractor to see how much each causes the extractor to protrude.

[DJK11]

Okay here it is page 23. I’ve only seen it mentioned for the 45 pistols outside of the manual. It’s Christmas so enough of this gun stuff, back to the cookies and cheesecake.

[DJK11]

After all the food I feel packed.

[dao]

I cycled five live rounds through the gun manually. It has gotten much easier to rack, no longer need to push the muzzle against something. All five rounds chambered and ejected normally. The ejector doesn't stick out quite as much as it does with the cap, I'm thinking the rim, or the base, forward of the rim might be a hair bigger around than a real round, causing the ejector to stick out further from the slide. Given that the slide is now movable by hand with both a live round and the new snap cap I'm sure it just needs to be brought to the range and allowed to feed, fire, and eject some rounds to get it to the point where it is completely normal.

Of the Kahrs that I still have, the S9, MK40 Elite, and the PM45 are labeled as packed. The MK9 Elite 2000, the P380, and the PM9 do not. Of the three that do, they are all fairly new purchases, bought new though I have not checked for born on dates for them. I can't remember if the two P380's, PM40, and P40 that I have traded away said packed or not. The S9 only came with two 7rd mags, so perhaps packed means the maximum number of packaged mags that would be available for a specific model, at the particular time that model is sold?

[Bawanna]

Might just mean it's all in the box ready to ship too. Lock, mags etc.

[dao]

True, it might!

[DJK11]

I’m going with Bawanna’s assumption. Why would it be in reference to magazines. What about the extractor being a LCI?

[dao]

Arent' they all essentially LCI? Even if not visual I've always been able to feel the extractor on my Kahrs to know if a round was chambered or not. Are the kommi state guns' extractors somehow different? That's an honest question, because I don't know.

I did give some thought to the Colonel's suggestion. Why would a manufacturer put a sticker on a gun with the word packed, to indicate it was ready to be shipped, when just leaving a sticker off would indicate the opposite and so in that situation any sticker on the box would let them know it was ready to go out?

[dao]

Took the gun to the range today. Put 50rds of 230gr ball and 14rds of 200gr Hornady XTP HPs through it. No issues at all with the ball ammo and just a few instances of the gun not going all the way into battery with the SD rounds. It does like to send the spent casings into my head but that doesn't bother me. I wear glasses all the time anyway to no worries about taking one to the eye in an SD situation. I shot at 8yds today and my groups were not great but given that I fired all but 6rds with my left hand I was happy with the 6" groups I managed. I've developed tennis elbow in my right arm. It's getting a little better after a month of exercise but I've started buying LH holsters just in case, and today was my first time shooting left handed, ever. At least with pistols. I bat, and shoot rifles left handed and am probably a natural lefty for most things, though I eat and write right handed and am pretty much ambidextrous with most things. But I'm left eye dominant.
My right handed pistol shooting came about because my first handgun was a Beretta 70s with the left side grip that had a shelf for the thumb. Not comfortable at all to shoot left handed. And being somewhat ambi myself it was not hard to start shooting it with my right hand and sticking with that even after I started buying other pistols. I can't shoot a rifle right handed though because I can't close my left eye with my right eye open. So, all that to say I did pretty well shooting today with my off hand and have no qualms about carrying on that side if my right arm doesn't improve. And some of the failures to go into battery could have been the result of limp wristing unintentionally with my new strong hand.
As for the gun, I like it a lot. I mean I really like it a lot. The recoil is stout but not painful at all and honestly I don't think it's as snappy as my MK40, or at least no more so. I'd have to shoot them side by side to be sure but I was very pleased with this little heater today. I'll be keeping it for a long time to come.

[Bawanna]

Mine will eject into my head/face if I get sloppy with my grip. Otherwise it doesn't happen. Might just need to tighten up that grip a bit.

[dao]

Wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that's exactly what I'm doing wrong Colonel. Even though I shot it tolerably well it still feels very foreign in that hand.

[Bawanna]

Your a better man than I. My left hand is just cosmetic or for balance. I shoot with it now and then but I don't shoot good with it.

[dao]

We do what we have to do. Part of getting old I guess. When parts start failing we make up for them as best we can with spare parts :)

[berettabone]

I know what you mean. I now shoot a single action with my left foot, and I fan the hammer with my right big toe........................................:D

[dao]

Youth truly is wasted on the young. Who aren't able to appreciate it for what it is. Little perspective to go on.

[tokuno]

Youth truly is wasted on the young. Who aren't able to appreciate it for what it is. Little perspective to go on.

I certainly didn't appreciate my metabolic rate, resilience, recovery rate, and energy . . . I fondly remember being able read a book lying prone for hours without a thought to my lower back, and how "normal" it was to recovery-sleep for 14 hours straight without a sore hip or lower back, no need to run to the toilet, and certainly no lying awake at night, exhausted, but unable to fall asleep. I wistfully remember dividing up into "us vs. the old guys" on the basketball court, and the old guys were all those 30 or older . . .
Ignorance can be bliss, but mostly in retrospect for me :)
Now I'm typing from a stand-up desk, because if I sit down, there's a whole process around standing back up, and
My Dad was in an Alzheimer's facility, and I considered printing out a picture of him as a twenty-something to hang around his neck to remind the attendants of the vibrant, intelligent, productive soul trapped inside that shell. Now I'm thinking I should do the same for myself :p

[dao]

Well put. And a great idea, to do for your Dad!

[Bawanna]

I might do it for myself, I know my gigolo business has really tapered off lately. Must be losing my chick magnetism.

[dao]

I can't go back to anything because I never really had anything to begin with. Still unsure what my wife sees in me.

[getsome]

Well dao keep your chin up, like they say, it’s never too late to be what you might have once been....I don’t know what my my wife of 44 years sees in me either other than that I’m still working at a very good paying job I’ve had for the past 38 years and at 63 years of age I’m still paying the bills and keeping the refrigerator well stocked with groceries but on the other hand I don’t know what I see in her either because every time she walks into the room she blocks out all the light and the room goes dark and she will always blame me for that time when the chocolate waterfall down at the Golden Corral gave out before we got there like it was my fault......

[dao]

Thanks Man, I'm fine, really. I've got a great wife and a good life. No complaints. And she's very supportive of my interests. I try to return that in kind.

[berettabone]

ouch.............................................. ...........................................

[getsome]

Note to self, when posting late night not so nice things about wife on internet forum, best not to leave laptop open so large wife can see post because large wife know who getsome is.....

ER doc said that after the stitches come out in 6 weeks I should be walking somewhat normal by late spring/early summer....

[Bawanna]

Prayers for a speedy recovery and return to as close to normbal as possible.

[dao]

'preciate you taking one for the team getsome :Amflag2:

[DJK11]

What about that bulging extractor and “packed”? Or has the mystery been solved.
Shipped with one magazine it’s “not packed”.
Shipped with two magazines it’s “sort of packed”.
Shipped with four magazines it’s “packed +”.

[dao]

My extractor is now sticking out no more than any of my others. Must be the difference between live rounds and the snap caps I'm using. And possibly everything seating properly after my range visit.

Still don't know what Packed means for sure, since my S9 came with either one or two mags (can't recall), and the PM45 with three.

[dustnchips]

Some of my boxes say Packed and some do not. No rime or reason that I can figure out.