Used P380 or New CT380?

[frrg2021]

LGS has two older P380s in stock with the pink grip. Best I can tell from the numbers one is RB/2010 and one is RC/2011. The 2010 looks just about new while the 2011 has some minor signs of wear but was probably carried more than shot. Both are in the upper $200s. Any reliability probs with the pink ones?

New CT380s are just under $400.

This would be to replace an LCP. I’ve tried and tried to love it but after several hundred rounds my initial impression (tinker toy) has not dissipated.

I like the pocket size of the LCP and only reservation about the CT380 is size but a lot of folks say you can pocket it and it’s much smaller in person vs pics. I have grip extension and hogue on the LCP so it might be a wash on size.

I’d have to get the frame on the pink one cerakoted as I’m not into pink, so end of day price between them would likely be about even end of day. Maybe a little less on the p380 and I’d have a cool color on the frame.

[DavidR]

Normally I’d be very reluctant to buy a used Kahr 380. Good chance you’re buying someone else’s problem. Given they’re pink it could be that they were bought for a female and either she couldn’t rack it or it had too much recoil. All that said, if you’re going to spend money change the grip color, I would buy the new CT380.

[getsome]

Hello frrg2021 welcome to Kahrtalk.....DavidR gives good advise, I would stay away from a used .380 Kahr pistol because so many of the early ones had problems that made them unreliable.....The newer ones seem to be better but are still ammo sensitive and need hot carry ammo to function which gets expensive with this caliber if you can even find any......I have owned two Ruger LCP pistols because I like Ruger firearms and did my very best to like both of them but just couldn’t get along with either for various reasons......I finally ended up trading for a Beretta Pico .380 which is a great little pistol which shoots any ammo without malfunction and is much easier to shoot with it’s decent sights......The Pico is very thin and light to carry, it doesn’t have the Kahr trigger but it’s not bad but the little thing shoots any ammo 100% which is what I need in a small pocket pistol and the Pico is in the same price range as a LCP.....Don’t get me wrong, I love Kahr pistols, my PM9 to me is perfect and has never had any malfunction of any kind and I trust it but I wouldn’t feel the same about a used Kahr .380

[KahrP380owner]

I don't know about the reliability of used CW380's but assuming they are selling you a gun that runs free of jams, I'd say buy it over a new one. The break-in for a new Kahr is long and very expensive with ammo. I, unfortunately am paying $40 for range ammo and $50 for defensive ammo. So you are looking at $250-$300 just to break it in and then you hope that it starts to run without FTF, stove pipes, failure to go into battery, etc. If I had to do it again, I'd buy a good used Kahr 380

[DavidR]

Friends don’t let friends buy used CW380s. [emoji16]

[Armybrat]

I am biased because my CT380 is a sweet little 7+1 that fits my hand much better than my LCP or a P380.
Even though it is a bit larger than the P380, it is still kinda tough to rack.

[frrg2021]

I think the CT380 is calling me. I actually wanted a CT380 when I bought the LCP but LGS was sold out. I’ve waxed and waned on the LCP but I just think this thing will be disposable. Lot of folks say ~1000 rounds and it’s in the trash can w cracked frame.

Army brat is it so much larger than the p380 as to be a dealbreaker, or is it still very compact/pocketable?

[MahrLalk]

If I were you, I would grab some 380 snap caps and test feeding and extracting of the P380s at the LGS. It depends on the store policy though. Size-wise a CT380 is very close to a Sig P365: much bigger than the LCP. You can find a visual comparison of LCP vs CT380 here: https://www.handgunhero.com/compare/ruger-lcp-vs-kahr-ct380

[King Rat]

Hello frrg2021 welcome to Kahrtalk.....DavidR gives good advise, I would stay away from a used .380 Kahr pistol because so many of the early ones had problems that made them unreliable.....The newer ones seem to be better but are still ammo sensitive and need hot carry ammo to function which gets expensive with this caliber if you can even find any......I have owned two Ruger LCP pistols because I like Ruger firearms and did my very best to like both of them but just couldn’t get along with either for various reasons......I finally ended up trading for a Beretta Pico .380 which is a great little pistol which shoots any ammo without malfunction and is much easier to shoot with it’s decent sights......The Pico is very thin and light to carry, it doesn’t have the Kahr trigger but it’s not bad but the little thing shoots any ammo 100% which is what I need in a small pocket pistol and the Pico is in the same price range as a LCP.....Don’t get me wrong, I love Kahr pistols, my PM9 to me is perfect and has never had any malfunction of any kind and I trust it but I wouldn’t feel the same about a used Kahr .380

Well said, Forget the LCP is you shoot the 380's often. (and it is my hobby). They will not last anywhere near the amount of ammo down range as a Kahr. I have a size large hand and wear a xtra large size glove and I have no problem with Kahr CM9. A perfect fit and the smallest 9mm on the market. As Much as I love the Kahr 380 I love the magnificent Beretta Pico even more. What a top quality firearm and can handle thousands of rounds down range. I own three of them and use one consistently as a range gun. If I told you how many rounds that gun has had ammo through it, you would not believe me. And this gun is as reliable as any larger gun I have shot. Great sights, all stainless steel through out the gun other than the Modular grip that can be swapped. Easy as hell to break down and clean, easy to change spare parts if needed, beautiful Stainless steel magazines that look like custom 1911 quality and even ships with a stainless steel guide rod. A smooth DAO trigger and designed for sleekness in every design of the gun.
That said, the Pico has a learning curve to operate, but once you get it down it is fast and has double strike capability. 380 ammo is way too expensive now. Not a good time to buy any of them. And then here comes the sweet Kahr CM 9 which is actually IMO built as close to a small 380 as anything on the market. The CT is a little bigger grip but preferred by some. I bought a used CM 9 and was able to shoot 50 rds at the place of purchase and it ran flawlessly. I did have replace the magazine spring which was easy to do.

[SlowBurn]

I'd get the used P380. Somebody else broke it in for you, and you'll carry it everywhere because of the size and weight advantage. BTW in my experience Kahr will repair or replace anything wrong with it if necessary and won't even ask if you bought it new. Might make you pay shipping, at most.

[berettabone]

LGS has two older P380s in stock with the pink grip. Best I can tell from the numbers one is RB/2010 and one is RC/2011. The 2010 looks just about new while the 2011 has some minor signs of wear but was probably carried more than shot. Both are in the upper $200s. Any reliability probs with the pink ones?

New CT380s are just under $400.

This would be to replace an LCP. I’ve tried and tried to love it but after several hundred rounds my initial impression (tinker toy) has not dissipated.

I like the pocket size of the LCP and only reservation about the CT380 is size but a lot of folks say you can pocket it and it’s much smaller in person vs pics. I have grip extension and hogue on the LCP so it might be a wash on size.

I’d have to get the frame on the pink one cerakoted as I’m not into pink, so end of day price between them would likely be about even end of day. Maybe a little less on the p380 and I’d have a cool color on the frame.
If you want nothing but trouble, get one....................................If not, get a real gun, not a pea shooter. 9mm is for sale everywhere. Spend less, get more. The wifey's LCP II .380 has been great, no issues and very accurate.

[King Rat]

If you want nothing but trouble, get one....................................If not, get a real gun, not a pea shooter. 9mm is for sale everywhere. Spend less, get more. The wifey's LCP II .380 has been great, no issues and very accurate.


Lol, go to the Ruger forum and see if there are really no problems with the Ruger LCP's. It is funny, when a Kahr 380 has a issue it is parroted all over the internet. When a LCP has a issue, it is not reported at all on other forums as if they do not exist. Being a member of both forums and three Ruger forums for years including the Original ElsiePea I can assure you there have been thousands of failures and right out of the box. Not be mentioned cracked grips, split rails, and bad magazines. They are Cheaply made. In all honesty I would get the Keltec before the LCP. Parts are cheap and easy to replace, much better trigger (Dao) And do not buy into the nonsense that the LCP is a more accurate shooter, it is not in any way unless you are just a "Target Shooter". Personally
I would have NO problem buying a used P380https://i.imgur.com/ryBMTxg.jpg?1 https://i.imgur.com/61GHNiG.jpg?3 https://i.imgur.com/J1qqju6.jpg?8

[berettabone]

Yes, they all have their issues. LCP's are throw away guns. They are not meant to be target/range guns. Hence, the price. But, they are just as accurate at the distances for which they were designed for as a Kahr, if not more so. For me, it breaks down to, do you want to have a more expensive firearm, that's problem prone and needs good ammo, or do you want a cheaper firearm that feeds everything, and you get rid of it when it's days are numbered. Even a cheap firearm will last a lifetime if it's used for it's purpose only. You don't have to sell me on Kahr's. I'm well aware of their niche in the gun world. Too much sugar makes for too sweet a cake.

[frrg2021]

I’ve detail stripped my LCP and it’s junk. Not saying the Kahr is any huge improvement, I really don’t know, but I can’t imagine something built cheaper. The top end is ok but the sub frame and frame are very much disposable.

I’ve had a few unintended mag drops and jams, so the lcp certainly isn’t trouble free. Agree it is quite accurate for what it is, surprisingly so.

I’ve got 9mm including G43. Something like the LCP/P380/CT380 fills a niche in the collection.

... fyi anyone saying a 380 isn’t a real gun, especially at these distances, immediately gets the weekend warrior/mall ninja badge. I’ve done gel tests and 380 is very capable and effective. Not interested in any testimony to the contrary.

[berettabone]

I'll take the ninja badge. Been a weekday and a weekend warrior for 65+ yrs. A .380 is a real gun at 25 ft. After that, not so much. Let me know when you join the real world and you walk around with gel in your shirt and in your pants. Then tell me about your useless gel tests, you know, the ones that don't have bone, or cartilage, and don't stop bullets in their tracks......................................JFYI, I had to dispatch of a large(20#) cat a few weeks back. It was very sick and hobbling around. Used the wifey's LCP II. I knew that my .357 or .40 was overkill or so I thought. I dispatched it using Hornady Critical Defense 95 gr. JHP from about 35 ft. away. Right between the eyes, proving once again that it's just as accurate as any other pea shooter. Problem was that after walking over to the animal, it was still alive so I had to use another $2.00 bullet so there was no suffering. I don't go by other's gel tests and crapolla you see on the net. I go by real life experience, and my experience tells me that I am not in the least comfortable or confident in the caliber. If everyone/anyone else is, great. I'm in the process of once again, trying to get my wife to increase her caliber preference. After the cat episode, she's thinking twice. I told her that If I would have been shooting at someone to protect myself, and they were wearing a coat, it never would have stopped them without a head shot for sure. It would have taken multiple, multiple shots. Please save all of the "I wouldn't want to get shot by one" comments. I wouldn't want to get shot with anything. Period. But you sure would have a very good chance at surviving a .380 gun shot unless it was a head shot. As far as for defensive purposes, you could explain to the district attorney why it was necessary to shoot up a whole magazine and reload just to fend off an threat.

[DavidR]

I was shot today. They said I have to come back to be shot again in three weeks. I asked why. They said it’s because they’re out of 45 and had to use 380.

[Bawanna]

I just got notified that I'm eligible to be shot, told them I ain't no guinea pig. I want to live for a few more years where I see the commercials on the Trump network. If you received a Covid shot in 2021 you may be eligible for substantial compensation but too bad. Your guinea pigs and lawyers are on probation.

[frrg2021]

I'll take the ninja badge....Right between the eyes, proving once again that it's just as accurate as any other pea shooter. Problem was that after walking over to the animal, it was still alive so I had to use another $2.00 bullet so there was no suffering.......I told her that If I would have been shooting at someone to protect myself, and they were wearing a coat, it never would have stopped them without a head shot for sure. It would have taken multiple, multiple shots.

Pure gold. Here’s your mall ninja badge. You’ve earned it.

[King Rat]

God, I love caliber Wars! So many experts come out of the cracks like cockroaches at night.

[Bawanna]

Often times wondered how one tells the experts from the cockroaches. To me it all about whatever anyone is comfy carrying.
My wife got me some slightly more powerful glasses so I can see these little bitty 9mm cartridges, seems to help a little bit.

As mentioned several million times over the years, most of us will never be involved or have need for the gun we refuse to leave home without. I actually don't leave without even when I don't leave home, wear one all day every day. But better to have and not need than need and not have, isn't that the old saying?

[DavidR]

Often times wondered how one tells the experts from the cockroaches. To me it all about whatever anyone is comfy carrying.


It’s easy. I’m the expert. Anyone who disagrees with me is a cockroach. Isn’t that how we do things in the new America?

[King Rat]

I was shot today. They said I have to come back to be shot again in three weeks. I asked why. They said it’s because they’re out of 45 and had to use 380.

Don't quit your day job.

[DavidR]

Don't quit your day job.

I’m too busy shooting to have a day job.

[King Rat]

Yes, they all have their issues. LCP's are throw away guns. They are not meant to be target/range guns. Hence, the price. But, they are just as accurate at the distances for which they were designed for as a Kahr, if not more so. For me, it breaks down to, do you want to have a more expensive firearm, that's problem prone and needs good ammo, or do you want a cheaper firearm that feeds everything, and you get rid of it when it's days are numbered. Even a cheap firearm will last a lifetime if it's used for it's purpose only. You don't have to sell me on Kahr's. I'm well aware of their niche in the gun world. Too much sugar makes for too sweet a cake.


You say a LCP is just as accurate as a LCP. Owning both including shooting LCP's for 10 years I could not disagree more. But if it more accurate for you than that is what is all it is about. I did not even know you owned a Kahr 380. How are you comparing? Are you rapid firing both guns against each other or just target shooting them? The Kahr's have always been extremly accurate and mild shooting, much more so than the LCP's. I have ran them side by side many times over the years. Not once I ever seen a LCP out shoot a Kahr. Do I want a gun that is more expensive, or do I want more accident prone? Mine are NOT accident prone so I will dismiss that as a criteria. Yes, the Kahr will not feed some ammo but so what. I know my guns and in normal times have no problem feeding or finding good quality ammo both range and defensive. Plenty in my stash as I speak. Thousands of rounds. Your quote "Even a cheap firearm will last a life time, if it is used for it's purpose?" What the heck does that mean? Any Gun you carry should get plenty of range time regardless of how you feel about the caliber or the size. And I do NOT want a firearm that folds like a cheap lawn chair at a measly 1500-2000 rd. I want one built for the long haul. one that that has the ability to shoot HOT ammo.
If a gun is cheaply built and a throw away gun, then your really never know when that failure might occur, maybe much sooner than you think. And again be careful of any hot ammo.
I also saw your post about 380's only as good at 7 yds. Sorry, I will have to disagree with you again. That will depend on the owner and shooter. There are many that can do so very nice shooting at 15 yds rapid fire. But they are the people that actually shoot them often and enjoy shooting them.
And you always bring up the LCP all the time when you want to bash Kahr. That is fine, If you want to compare it the same as others compare other guns in the same class. I will not have a mental break down from that or the fact that you are always bringing up the LCP. I have no issue with it. Comparisons are great. But how about a honest comparison? You also mention Crappy sights on the LCP. Not my words, but yours. Why would anyone buy crappy sights when a better quality firearm is out there with nice sights? And especially THE ABILITY TO HAVE NIGHT SIGHTS? At least a nice front sight for rapid fire beyond the standard internet 7 yds. And especially if you use a front sight with other firearms for rapid fire and multiple targets.
Now I know your are the resident caliber War leader, so I will not go there. But if you want to move up to a 9mm then the Kahr CM9 is about as close as you can get for a quality 9mm compared to the size and light weight of a 380. NO PROBLEM.
As far as your wife is concerned, can she handle a CM9? Which is a mild shooting, very small gun? And so easy to carry and easy to make the transition to 9mm. I do not think you can get a smaller gun other than the Keltec which weighs about 12oz but yes, larger and more recoil not as pleasant to shoot. One other question, can your wife shoot a DAO well? Can you? Just asking.

[berettabone]

First off, everyone knows that the Kahr .380 is a problem child. It's been no secret for years. Longer than you've been shooting the LCP. Just as many have been sold as purchased. Second, I don't bash the Kahr brand. I carried an MK9 for 9+ years. Would I do that if I thought Kahr was junk??????? Third, I bash the .380 caliber. It's weak tit at best. Better off carrying a .22 cal. Many of the people on this forum were dealing with Kahr firearms while you were convincing your husband that the .380 cal. is the best thing since white bread. We are all so happy that an expert in pea shooters can come on to this forum and educate us losers that have only been shooting, in my case for over 50+ years. I guess the larger calibers are too much for you. It's ok, a man has to know his limitations, and in your case, it's anything over .380 apparently. All you really want to do, is force your opinion on to everyone else. Along with telling us all how great the Pico and Apx are. Blah, blah, blah............maybe if you step away from the mirror, you would realize that many people are not in a financial position to purchase Kahr's and have to settle for something less pricey, like an LCP or other plastic squirt gun. I would venture a guess that 95% of people who own an LCP or something similar, don't practice much at all, and if they do, it's with a different firearm. Should you practice with what you carry? Of course, but once again, if you can't afford an LCP for practice and an LCP for carry, you are not going to burn out your firearm practicing with something that has a short shelf life. You probably have never seen an LCP outshoot a Kahr because you're always alone at practice time. What a surprise. As far as failures, you never know when ANY firearm will fail. If you can tell, take us all to Vegas and we'll put $10 on the black. As far as night sights, odds are you'll never get a chance to use them in a defensive situation. You won't have time. Crappy guns have crappy sights. What do you suggest????? $150 sights on a $250 firearm???? If it's all someone can afford, that's it. " Yes, the Kahr will not feed some ammo but so what." I understand your criteria now. There is some real confidence. What you want isn't necessarily what others want. When you realize that there are more firearms besides Kahr's and more calibers besides .380, come back and tell us about it. As far as my wifey is concerned, I would NEVER have her own a Kahr especially a CM9. Too difficult to rack. Too difficult to clear a misfeed. Too easy to limp wrist. My wife used to carry a .357 if your asking if she can shoot. She may have been shooting longer than you've been talking up the Pico. I carry a .357 revolver or an H&K .40. You can tell me all about .the mighty .380 caliber till the cows come home. It became a popular caliber for people that like pocket rockets, for people that are recoil sensitive, and for people that can't hit the side of a barn with anything larger. It's the convenience caliber. It's the drop in your pocket caliber when rushing out to the gas station. If you like it, and like to shoot it, fine. Please don't talk to us like we're your stupid step child. I don't know what's so difficult in understanding my comment that an LCP will last a lifetime when used for it's purpose. It's purpose is a convenient drop in the pocket firearm that has minimal recoil, causes minimal damage, and isn't to be used for lots of practice on the range. It's the reason why many women like the caliber.

[King Rat]

Had to laugh at the very beginning "Alone when shooting?" Wrong again. I have belonged to a group of Pocket gun and small barrel shooters for 10 ys. Bought my first LCP in2009 when they first came out. We typically meet every week or at least every two weeks. We organize many informal competitions throughout the year and many of these folks have been shooting for many decades. Yes, I will agree most people do not practice with a LCP. And what a shame. Most typically go to the range a few times a year, take their time to get the proper stance, hold the gun at the target for what seems like ages and then try a work the trigger and hope to hit center mass.
Yes indeed I compare 380 to the Pico . So what? I could careless if you do not like it. I am comparing guns just like YOU do with the LCP and others like the Sig 365 which gets a lot of attention here so bug off on that. You just want to make that personal
As far as failures, I will go by my own real life experiences which show a flawless guns and the guns others shoot in the club as well. And do not TELL me about your ballistic knowledge of the 380. I think we are all sick and tired of the caliber wars. And by the way the convenient Cat (20LBs) means nothing. On another forum a guy talks about taking down 5 large feral dogs around 80Lbs with a 380. Dogs that killed his Lab. But again, just more fodder for the caliber war.
Yes, I love the Kahr 380 and CM9. And the last time I checked this is a Kahr forum and I am a dedicated fan that does have quite a bit of experience shooting them and other 380's and small 9's. At this point, it is better that you and I just go forward and agree to disagree. Carry what you want. If you want a 357 which we quite often hear about. I have no problem at all and will never bash your choice. Live and let live. Have a great Day!!

[Bawanna]

Ok, we've fairly had a rebuttals and points presented. I took the horse down for water and graze but it didn't seem to help. I'd put it down but I'm not sure what I should use to do it with and I like horses so into the pasture he goes.

As this is becoming quite personal by party of the first part and the party of the second part with little sign of a peace treaty I think we'll just close this one down.