New TP9 Off Center Firing Pin Strikes

[thinman]

Purchased a new Kahr TP9. Already have a PM9 that is over 10 years old. The PM9 has off center firing pin strikes but not so far off center as to make me question the pistol's reliability. The new TP9, however, has severely off center firing pin strikes. To the point that I'm concerned it might not be reliable with harder primers.
Sent a letter with a photo of the primers from 6 fired cartridges. Off center strike is about 1:30 and very far from center when viewing the cartridge in the barrel. Sent the letter with photo to Kahr on Tuesday, April 6th. Have not yet heard back on what they recommend and/or will do.
Anyone else had the same concern. I'd love to hear about it.
Knew I was taking a chance buying a new pistol with the current demand situation. It's easy to for quality to slip a little when everyone is working overtime trying to fill orders. This new TP9 is generally not as well machined and finished as my old PM9 -- notable tool marks -- but I can live with that. However, the barrel not being properly fitted is a big concern to me.
Friend of mine has owned a local gun store for many years and is very knowledgeable firearms guy. He suggested loading some ammo with small rifle primers. Small rifle primers have harder cups than small pistol primers. If the pistol is reliable with the small rifle primers, it's probably alright but clearly the barrel is locking in before going up high enough to get a centered firing pin strike.
Any insights, I'd love to hear about them.
Thanks

[Bawanna]

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?26171-Primer-Strike-Curiosity&highlight=primer+smear

Does the primer look similar to the ones in the above thread? Pictures aren't the greatest but show what I call primer smear or some call it primer drag. Apparently the case is on the way out faster than the striker retracting and hence a drag mark. Never a concern that I've heard of. I suspect this is what your seeing.

[thinman]

Thank you Bawanna for responding. My concern is with off center primer strike. I'm familiar with primer smear. Both my PM9 and TP9 exhibit primer smear, though the PM9 more so than the TP9. I understand primer smear is normal for these pistols. I would post a photo but I'm (new member?) not permitted to do attachments. Best word description I can think of is that the outer edge of the primer strike crater is closer to the center of the primer than is the center of the primer strike crater. When looking at the cartridge head it's clear that the barrel is locking up in the ejection port too low relative to the firing pin channel. Thus, the primer strike is too close to the top edge of the primer.

[Bawanna]

Or I would think more likely the striker is not properly machined or aligned in the slide correctly.

I'm thinking an email to Kahr might be in order.

[thinman]

Appreciate your thoughts Bawanna. You're right. Could be the striker channel is not properly located relative to the breech face. I do have an email that includes attached high res photos of fired brass sent in to Kahr. Sent that email almost a week ago. Have not yet heard back from Kahr. Sent a second email yesterday with one low res photo attached. I always worry that a high res photo gets caught/stopped somewhere because of the photo size. I'm trying to be patient as I know all the firearm manufacturers are very busy right now.

[gb6491]

thinman,
How does your TP9 shoot in regards to it's sights? Point of aim = Point of impact or high/low of that?

[thinman]

Super Moderator -- Fired about 25 rounds through it so far. All fired at 15 yards. Relatively speaking, shoots to the sights; maybe needs a very slight windage adjustment. Compared all brass from first shot to the last shot of the range session. No change in firing pin strike position relative to center of primer. Pistol cycled fine. No concerns other than off center firing pin strike.
As background, because Kahr recommends a break in period I lubed and then hand cycled the slide at least a couple hundred times and dry fired the trigger with a dummy round in the chamber at least 100 times. Everything was smooth right out of the box though it does feel slightly smoother after the hand cycling and dry fire.

[Bawanna]

Hence the reason for the recommended break in which "ALL" guns should get. Kahr is just forward about it.

Wish we had a different striker to just swap in and see what it does. That would be a quick easy fix.

Other than that it seems to be a winner. And you don't mention any failures to fire, so maybe it's not that big of an issue although I get your concern, one of those things that swims around in your head and drives you nuts till you get it sorted out.

[thinman]

Wish we had a different striker to just swap in and see what it does. That would be a quick easy fix.

Other than that it seems to be a winner. And you don't mention any failures to fire, so maybe it's not that big of an issue although I get your concern, one of those things that swims around in your head and drives you nuts till you get it sorted out.

Again, thank you for sharing your thoughts Mr. Bawanna. I have a PM9 that works well. From Kahr's website parts section it appears the PM9 and TP9 both use the same striker. Since I've yet to hear back from Kahr in response to my communications, I'll try swapping the strikers. Range trip may be several days away but I will report out what I find.

And, yes, you are right about this being one of those things that is hard for me to let go. I'm caught up in what I perceive to be a great cosmic question, "How far off center can the firing pin strike be on small pistol primer ammunition before it begins to cause reliability problems?" As I seek to answer that great question, I try to remind myself to remember the question my wife once long ago asked me, "Did you ever think about going around a mountain rather than through it?"

[Bawanna]

I'll have to remember your wife's sound logic for future reference, I have several unfinished tunnels I've started in my days.

[dustnchips]

I can't believe it is the striker. It can only go through the hole in the slide. Bad machining on the slide would be my guess.

[thinman]

Kahr has gotten back to me on the off center firing pin strike concern. Here is their response:
"At this point we can test fire the pistol but seeing that you have not seen any misfire at this time I doubt my gunsmith are going to to go further if the don't have any misfires themselves. If you still wish to have the gun sent in then I will need the two links below to get started."
Not sure how I should feel about Kahr's response. By being willing to have the pistol sent in for test firing, Kahr is kind of acknowledging that it appears there's a problem. However, clearly suggesting that if Kahr can't demonstrate a misfire problem then they probably won't do anything is something less than a fully satisfactory answer.
Kahr's reply tells me that they're not working to a numerical standard in the repair shop. Kahr is building a machine. There's a tolerance in their blueprints for manufacturing their product. Otherwise, how would they know how to set their machines up and when to change tools from wear. Kahr is either ignoring their own standards to meet pandemic production goals or is willing to loosen their standards to meet pandemic production goals.
After thinking about it, I think I'll go back to self testing. Load ammo with small rifle primers and see if there are misfires. If the pistol reliably fires small rifle primers, then I'll consider it "good enough."
Must confess that good enough is not quite what I had in mind when I purchased my first Kahr or when I purchased this my second one. Still, I like the pistol design and don't know of a competing product that I like better for the purpose for which I bought the pistol. C'est La Vie

[skiflydive]

My $.02 Shoot it. Shoot it with well powered factory ammo. Why diddle around with small rifle primer reloads unless that's what you intend to carry. Kahrs are known for primer smear anyway. Shoot it and get back when you have a misfire. Until then, you don't have a problem.

[thinman]

For today, I have put away my concern about the off center firing pin strike of my TP9. Completed testing this past weekend. Loaded my standard IDPA load with Winchester small rifle primers. Fired about 25 rounds without incident. Fired cartridge rifle primer indentation was noticeably less than fired cartridge pistol primer indentation but the pistol with both cases was shooting to the sights and there were no misfires. Good enough.

[thinman]

Final note to the off center firing pin strike story. Sent a thank you email to Julia and Joshua at Kahr Customer Service. I shared with them the favorable results of the small rifle primer test and thanked them for having gotten back to me and being willing to have the pistol come back in for testing.

Joshua got back to me with the following response: "Generally, a good rule of thumb is less than half the diameter of the dent. So as long as some part of the dent is over the center it should be fine." I'm pleased to know what standard Kahr is using. My TP9 passes that test -- maybe a little closer to the limit than I would like but it does pass the Kahr observation test and it runs on hard primers.

I do very much appreciate Kahr Customer Service communications and follow through.

[Canine Dave]

Final note to the off center firing pin strike story. Sent a thank you email to Julia and Joshua at Kahr Customer Service. I shared with them the favorable results of the small rifle primer test and thanked them for having gotten back to me and being willing to have the pistol come back in for testing.

Joshua got back to me with the following response: "Generally, a good rule of thumb is less than half the diameter of the dent. So as long as some part of the dent is over the center it should be fine." I'm pleased to know what standard Kahr is using. My TP9 passes that test -- maybe a little closer to the limit than I would like but it does pass the Kahr observation test and it runs on hard primers.

I do very much appreciate Kahr Customer Service communications and follow through.

Kahr Customer Service is GREAT!