Frustrated P380 Owner

[fortheone589]

Hi all,

I have been a long time reader of these forums, but this is my first time posting. I am at the end of my rope with my P380 CA edition. I have almost 1400 rounds through the gun total. After the first 300 rounds with various issues that did not stop after break in period, it went back to Kahr and they replaced the mag disconnect spring and fitted the extractor. I then fired 200 more rounds with continued issues. It went back to Kahr and they replaced the follower on one of my magazines, replaced the barrel, adjusted the slide stop spring, and polished the slides top. I then put 400 rounds through the gun with only a single stovepipe. I considered it more or less fixed at his point. I did not fire the gun for about 6 months then put another 150 rounds through on 2 separate range outings. I had a lot of feeding issues at this point that somehow appeared in that 6 month period. I would constantly have rounds not properly going into battery and would have to fiddle with the slide to get it to close all the way. I called Kahr and they recommended trying new recoil springs (I was at about 1300 rounds). I put in the new springs and put another 100 rounds through the gun with more feeding issues as well as a bunch of stovepipes.

At this point, I have sunk the cost of the firearm, 1400 rounds, and numerous range fees into trying to have a reliable firearm for self-defense ccw. I have cleaned the gun between each outing, tried to oil it more and less at times to see if that had an effect, used multiple magazines, used different brands of ammo, and I have had other experienced shooters try it in case I was limp wristing. At this point, I am quite frustrated and unsure what to do. I hate to send it to Kahr again and waste more time/money testing it in the hopes that it actually becomes reliable. I am not particularly comfortable/experienced with the types of DIY repairs that are mentioned on this forum, so I am not really sure what my options are. I guess I am hoping that some on here might have advice and/or hope that this situation can and will be rectified. Perhaps Kahr might offer a full replacement firearm? This whole situation has soured me on Kahr and on the P380, though I had really hoped to love it. Thank you for your time.

[BirdsThaWord]

Sorry to hear that. At this point, I would personally give up on it. Sometimes you get a gun that is just a lemon. A careless worker in the production line, the last one made before a tool was changed out as it was realized to be worn out of spec, etc, etc. I’ve read about certain revolvers where the process of boring out the barrel ended up with the bore being out of line with cylinder or frame, essentially “clocked” out of line once installed on the frame... lot’s of things have to be just right or malfunctions will be a norm.
I think you said it...you are not inclined to take on more repairs or to pay for more repairs, so keeping it sounds out of the question. I like a challenge (usually, forget the Star I bought and quickly sold), but sometimes they just are not worth it. You may find that very same model, made at a different time, that will run like a scalded dog with no effort at all. I have read others on here loving that model and having great success with them, so again think you just may have bought a lemon.

[dustnchips]

First thing. Did you follow the "New Kahr Prep" sticky in this column. Most people use grease, not oil and run the guns very wet. Variety of ammo counts less than quality. I have 2 P380s, Gave one to a girlfriend. I also have a CW380. I followed the New Kahr Prep and they all ran great. The CW had problems in the first 100 rounds so I did the New Kahr Prep and have not had a problem since. The Ps got the treatment before being fired and There has never been a problem with either one. I'd try doing it to your gun and if that doesn't cure it I would keep sending it back on their dime until it runs or they give you a new one that does. They are great little guns and I carry mine most of the time. Good luck. There is also a sticky about extractor claw tension that I later applied so my 380s will run any ammo.

[BirdsThaWord]

I had assumed when he posted that he was a long time reader that he would have already done the prep, but you know what assume spells... The extractor shaping could help, but doesn’t sound like something he wants to take on. Both good points though!

[berettabone]

You could try what has been suggested but I think you already know what to do. I would have called it a day after the repair. If Kahr can't fix it, who can????????? Trade it off. 1300 rds. at today's prices are about $600. You could have purchased 2 new small pocket rockets for that price. The wifey has been shooting an LCP II for about a year with no issues for $251. I am one who hates to throw in the towel but it sounds like you should take your marbles and go home. How can you ever trust it to save your life? To me they've always been too ammo and limp wrist sensitive. I would definitely tell Kahr once again what is happening but wouldn't spend another penny shooting or sending it in. Good Luck.

[Bawanna]

Personally I'd send an email to Kahr almost word for word same as your post. See what they have to say at this point.

I'm a devout don't waste my time on a 380 but many love them.

[fortheone589]

Hey all, thanks for the help! I have done many of the proper prep sticky steps, though I do not have a dremel for part 3 and I have not sanded per part 5. It does not seem to me that I should have to purchase a dremel or sand paper to get the gun working when it has repeatedly gone back to Kahr. I realize that others may be more "hands on" but that's just not where I am at this point. Otherwise, I have followed the recommendations. I took Bawanna's suggestion and sent an email to Kahr with the above. Otherwise, I think BirdsThaWord and berettabone pretty well verbalized where I'm at. Thanks for the confirmation everyone! Much appreciated.

[Bawanna]

They speak the truth, there reaches a point where one looses confidence in a gun and at that point just set it aside as a project. With some effort it may earn that trust back but with firearms trust and confidence are everything.

Do keep us posted on what Kahr has to say about it, you've been through enough, hopefully they will take care of it and start at getting that trust back.

[getsome]

Hello fortheone589 sorry to hear of your problems and frustrations but you aren’t the first to have issues with a Kahr .380 it seems you either get a good one or unfortunately get one that just drives you crazy…..I would say that you have done everything possible to correct the problems and it’s time to move on……The Ruger LCP’s seem to work and I have a Beretta Pico .380 that has been 100% and never had a hiccup with any ammo…..I don’t carry it often except for funerals or weddings when I have to wear a suit and the little thin Pico just disappears in a pocket or suit coat and I trust it to work as it should……I wish you luck but I wouldn’t spend another dime on a lemon………Let us know what you decide to do but sometimes it’s just best to cut your loses…..We have all been there…….

[dustnchips]

I am stubborn and would send it back again. I'd tell them in no uncertain terms that it had better be perfect this time or else they had better be ready to send me a new gun and 200 rounds to break it in. The situation is total BS and they should have fixed or replaced the gun long ago. I tend to get in manufacturer and service people faces and drive them crazy with communications until I get my way or my money back. If you send the gun back again include a bill for the ammo in excess of the first 200 rounds.

[fortheone589]

Hi all,

Appreciate the continued suggestions. Unfortunately, I don't have many options on roster in California for a pocketable 380. Otherwise I would love a LCP. Only other option here is a Sig p238 but I'm not as keen on a 1911 style firearm and I'm a leftie which creates problems with the default right-handed safety. Kahr gave me a label to send it in and said it will be up to their service manager to issue a replacement. At this point, I am hopeful to get a replacement. If I do, it will be a decision as far as whether I roll the dice on testing out the new one or just sell it as new without firing it and move on/give up on a pocketable 380 at least in this state.

[berettabone]

I didn't know you lived in a Communist country. :p As far as I know, the Ruger LC380, Bersa models like the Firestorm, and the Sig 232 are ok for Cal. I understand your feelings on the small 1911 types. Not my thing either. The Sig is a really nice firearm, but probably too large/heavy for pocket carry. IMHO, if it were me, and I received a replacement, I would trade it new and move up in caliber. If you're stuck on .380, you could sell/trade it and pick up a LC380 for the same or less than the Kahr cost, maybe even recoup a bit of cash. You could also look at it as you already have a lot of time and money invested, so what's to hurt if you shoot a few boxes through the new replacement. It may run like a champ. Personally, I couldn't have the trust needed with the design to keep it as a defensive pistol. You could also drop down to .32 caliber. Depending on ammo, probably just as potent as .380. You have so many more options going up or down in caliber from .380. I'm not sure what Libbyfornia has against .380 cal. They have craploads of .45's on their list. In my mind, a smaller caliber than .380 with lots of boolets in the magazine is just as potent as a .380 with 6 or 7.

[fortheone589]

Tell me about it. The Ruger ends up being the same size as a 9mm M&P Shield as far as I can tell, which would obviously be preferable at that point. I believe the Bersa is that size as well. The sig 232 looks to be discontinued too. I have a glock 26 but it's a bit too fat for me to conceal easily. I loved the size of the kahr but maybe I'll have to settle for a middle ground with the shield. An alternative is the PM9 but I'm kind of wary of Kahr now. My thinking on selling it new without firing it (if I do get a replacement) is that I can honestly say it is a brand new never been fired gun. If I test it out, especially if it has issues, I would want to say that and would lose value. Maybe the state of the P380 is such that a new one is likely to work fine for me though. You folks would know that better than me.

[dustnchips]

A year or so ago when the all black P380s were on sale for $305 I bought two of them and they ran perfect right away. One went to the girl friend. I did do the new Kahr prep when I got them. My CW I ran 100 rounds through with about 13 failures then I did the Kahr prep and it has not missed a beat either. If you want to move up in size, the PM9 is a bit bigger and heavier than the 380, but still relatively small. They seem to run great for everyone right away. I like my PM9, but carry the 380 most of the time due to size. Good luck.

[berettabone]

I pocket carried an MK9 for almost 9 years. I wouldn't hesitate to get a PM9....................................... This is why most own more than one firearm. Makes things so much easier in the versatility dept.

[SlowBurn]

My P380 was bought used, but ran great for a long time. Then it started having the kind of issues you mention. Sent in to Kahr MULTIPLE times, they tried everything, and it finally turned out to be the frame which had "fatigued" for some reason. Your problem is probably not that, but problems with these can be hard to isolate and need many attempts to solve. Here's the point:

I got frustrated and bought another while waiting (a CW380.) Since then I'm a believer in redundancy. I carry one, keep the other in the range bag, and rotate them. (I actually now have 3 because of the irresistible sale on black P380s a few years ago.) No problems for a long time, but if and when one has any issue, it will go straight back to Kahr, and back again as many times as it takes. Having another to carry while waiting drastically reduces the inconvenience and frustration.

[BirdsThaWord]

SlowBurn... Just curious, but did it go back for free? I’ve never had them give me the time of day, much less offer to repair anything. Just wondering how that goes?

[BirdsThaWord]

A year or so ago when the all black P380s were on sale for $305 .
Man oh man! Those were the good ol days. Wish that sale would come around again!!!

[SlowBurn]

Every time. Even though it was a used gun when I bought it, and well out of warranty they never asked. My only cost was when the frame was replaced, that's the serial numbered part, so it had to go through FFL transfer, and the dealer charged me for that.
I have no complaints about kahr service. They just sent a return authorization label and off it went. I found it easier to use email instead of phone to request the repair.

[BirdsThaWord]

Every time. Even though it was a used gun when I bought it, and well out of warranty they never asked. My only cost was when the frame was replaced, that's the serial numbered part, so it had to go through FFL transfer, and the dealer charged me for that.
I have no complaints about kahr service. They just sent a return authorization label and off it went. I found it easier to use email instead of phone to request the repair.
Thanks for letting me know. If I ever need it I may give them one more shot.

[medezyner]

I cant add anything that the good members of this forum haven't already said...but, as another member eluded to; sometimes you just get that 1 in 1,000. You've done your due diligence, now its time for them to (continue to) step up and get'r done. They monitor forums and any manufacturer worthy of repeat business knows that good customer service pays off in spades down the road. I've had nothing but 5 star happiness with my P380 as well as my PM9. I've had problems with other very good quality firearms and as long as they stand behind their product, they have a customer for many years, period. They burn me, adios perras. I wont drink manufacturers Cool-Aide when it comes to something as important as my side arm. Hope they resolve this for you. I personally think there are very few pocket 380's that compare, never mind the ones that are CA approved. Good luck.

[Bawanna]

Good to hear from you Medezyner, you've been neglecting us here on the oasis. I still have a sticky note from you hanging on my safe, been there a few years I'm thinkin.

[fortheone589]

For those who are still interested, the gun finally came back yesterday after several months. I do not have it yet, it is with my FFL. Kahr ended up replacing the frame of the gun (though not the slide). They put 10 mags of ammo through it with apparently no issues after that. There is a part of me that wants to hope that it will be right this time, permanently, but I'm not sure that I'll ever be able to trust my life with it after all this. We will see once I get it back I guess.

[dao]

I am. Hopefully when you get it to the range you'll be well satisfied. They are great little shooters when they're running right.

[King Rat]

For those who are still interested, the gun finally came back yesterday after several months. I do not have it yet, it is with my FFL. Kahr ended up replacing the frame of the gun (though not the slide). They put 10 mags of ammo through it with apparently no issues after that. There is a part of me that wants to hope that it will be right this time, permanently, but I'm not sure that I'll ever be able to trust my life with it after all this. We will see once I get it back I guess.


This is interesting post. The fact that they had to replace the frame/Grip. This was one of the main issues with the LCP's. They all crack eventually. The Kahr is a better build with the Steel inserts at the stress points and this is the first time I heard of one needing to be replaced. It is one of the things I first liked about the Beretta Pico. The modular design that made it easy to replace the grip if it were to fail.
I am OCD about my carry guns and also like to buy two. Typically one for range and one for carry. I was fortunate to buy the P380 on sale as mentioned in a previous Post for $305.00. (benefit lifetime warranty).
I also have two CM9's. If a sale come's down my way on a P series, I might step up to the plate and get one. However with the ammo shortage now, I do not see that happening and I believe my Two CM's to have a lot of life in them.
The good thing with the Ruger's is the fact that they have such excellent customer service. They repaired a number of mine, and replaced with a new gun on two occasions. Finally they gave a slight insinuation that they thought I was using Plus P ammo or "Hot" ammo. I told them, no, just shooting them often. They basically said in subtle tone that they would not continue to replace them. At that Point was when I stopped shooting them and still own the one I have today.
Glad to see Kahr take care of you. The Kahr 380 is such a lovely shooter.

Kahr Steel rail and inserts

https://i.imgur.com/Tr2uPAl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/0MNAT5W.jpg?4

Typical frame/Grip crack on LCP

https://i.imgur.com/J1qqju6.jpg?8

[berettabone]

For those who are still interested, the gun finally came back yesterday after several months. I do not have it yet, it is with my FFL. Kahr ended up replacing the frame of the gun (though not the slide). They put 10 mags of ammo through it with apparently no issues after that. There is a part of me that wants to hope that it will be right this time, permanently, but I'm not sure that I'll ever be able to trust my life with it after all this. We will see once I get it back I guess. I don't know about you but I never put my trust in hope. It's why I don't own one..........................

[King Rat]

If they shot 10 mags through the gun, it will shoot just fine. I have both the CW380 and P380 with more than few thousand rounds through the CW and about 400 rds through the P380 and they run great. And they are very Popular with the 380 club I belong to and the dedicated owners love them. You will be shooting fine once it is back and it will be a gun you will not want to part with. Personally I think the biggest cause of failures in these small gun is limp wresting. Seen it so many times. The Kahr is a very well made, quality firearm. One of the best out there. I certainly trust them with my life.

This P380 ran perfect on the first day out with just doing the break in at home. 200 rds.
https://i.imgur.com/e9cFYXc.jpg?1

[SlowBurn]

They did that for me once. I bought that P380 used, no idea how old it was but I owned about 5 years before it started to fail and turned out to be the frame. I guess it was just fatigue. Anyway even though it was way out of any type of warranty they charged me nothing. I also had to go through, and pay an FFL since thats the part with the serial number. Ran great after that til it was stolen. I have a newer one now due to the crazy sale a few years ago.

[kilogulf59]

For those who are still interested, the gun finally came back yesterday after several months. I do not have it yet, it is with my FFL. Kahr ended up replacing the frame of the gun (though not the slide). They put 10 mags of ammo through it with apparently no issues after that. There is a part of me that wants to hope that it will be right this time, permanently, but I'm not sure that I'll ever be able to trust my life with it after all this. We will see once I get it back I guess.
Greetings, new member here and I have to know how this ends...

Is it me or does it seem that firearms manufacturers will do anything NOT to simple give you a different gun when you have a lemon and they can't fix it?

[dao]

Dollars. And also the paperwork that needs to be filled out to show where their new Serial Numbered gun went. More cost efficient in the vast majority of cases to repair the old one where possible.

[DavidR]

fortheone - have you test fired it yet?

[fortheone589]

Apologize for the delay, I know some were interested in what happened here. I have not fired the gun as I don't think I can trust it after all this. I am waiting for the right buyer to sell it. Sometimes I reconsider but I have a Glock 42 that's almost as small that has give me no problems. Frustrating but after years of issues not sure what else to do. Thanks all.

[King Rat]

I just a few days ago hand my CM9 and P380 out to the range. 100 rounds through the P380 without a single issue like always, CM9 the same. I would compare the G42 to the CM9 not the CW380, the CM9 is actually smaller than the G42.

Sorry to hear about your issues, but I would be there is a simple solution. If I did not already have two, I would offer to buy it from you. I doubt you will have a any problem selling it if that is what you want to do. But I think if you have just a little patience it will pay off big returns. These are fine, well built Pocket guns that are very mild shooters.

[DavidR]

I’ve said this a bunch of times: Kahr 380s are hit or miss although recent production seems to be more hit than miss.

When they run right they are a gem. When they don’t they’re an expensive paperweight and Kahr doesn’t always make it right.

I currently own a CT380 that’s a gem. I once owned CW380 that was an expensive paperweight and Kahr didn’t make it right.

[Bawanna]

I don't know about you but I never put my trust in hope. It's why I don't own one..........................

There's a lot of hope involved trusting your life with any 380. Where's that couch I hide behind now?

[DavidR]

I’ve always been good at math.

380 is more than 8 times bigger than 45. That means you have to shoot something more than 8 times with a 45 to have the same effect as 1 time with a 380.

[dao]

Thanks for the chuckle :D

[King Rat]

There's a lot of hope involved trusting your life with any 380. Where's that couch I hide behind now?

No need to hide, Lol, i think we all are getting immune to Caliber wars. They have become boring. Just like the 1911 wars which just happened on another forum and of course the Glock warriors had to join in on that one. Or the capacity wars etc. Lol, just part of the gun culture.
Almost forgot, the revolver vs semi auto wars.

[berettabone]

There's a lot of hope involved trusting your life with any 380. Where's that couch I hide behind now? I'll hide back there with ya.............we should be able to hold them off for a while.

[King Rat]

Apologize for the delay, I know some were interested in what happened here. I have not fired the gun as I don't think I can trust it after all this. I am waiting for the right buyer to sell it. Sometimes I reconsider but I have a Glock 42 that's almost as small that has give me no problems. Frustrating but after years of issues not sure what else to do. Thanks all.

How much are you going to ask for it Please post it here, I know some folks that would be interested at my club. Like I said, I would buy it in a heart beat if I did not already have two.How many mags do you have? Do you know the year it was made? Thanks

Can you post a pic?

[SlowBurn]

I had to open my big mouth. Now out of the blue my newer P380 has stopped locking back when empty. Kahr responded quickly with the RMA and a FedEx label, so back she goes. I also have a CW380 so I don't have to change carry habits while I'm waiting. Redundancy reduces frustration.


They did that for me once. I bought that P380 used, no idea how old it was but I owned about 5 years before it started to fail and turned out to be the frame. I guess it was just fatigue. Anyway even though it was way out of any type of warranty they charged me nothing. I also had to go through, and pay an FFL since thats the part with the serial number. Ran great after that til it was stolen. I have a newer one now due to the crazy sale a few years ago.

[fortheone589]

Thanks to all who contributed. Not as easy to do private transfers in California as compared to some places, but I met with a buyer today and had a smooth transaction. Really appreciate everyone's help, the P380 was unfortunately not for me this time around. Glock 42 will do for now until (hopefully) the California handgun roster is overturned and I can get perhaps an LCP or other alternative. Thanks again!

[King Rat]

I had to open my big mouth. Now out of the blue my newer P380 has stopped locking back when empty. Kahr responded quickly with the RMA and a FedEx label, so back she goes. I also have a CW380 so I don't have to change carry habits while I'm waiting. Redundancy reduces frustration.

How many rounds have you shot through the gun? Have you ever changed out the recoil spring? Positive you did not ride the slide on the last round, or limp wrist? Just asking.

[SlowBurn]

How many rounds have you shot through the gun? Have you ever changed out the recoil spring? Positive you did not ride the slide on the last round, or limp wrist? Just asking.

I don’t keep good track of rounds but probably right around a thousand. That’s a good point about the recoil springs now that I think about it. Might be a little early to change them, but worth trying.

As for the grip issues, I admit they can happen, especially since Covid and the 380 shortage have slowed regular range trips until recently. But I’m not having a problem with my CW380 so I’m reasonably sure that’s not it.

[King Rat]

I don’t keep good track of rounds but probably right around a thousand. That’s a good point about the recoil springs now that I think about it. Might be a little early to change them, but worth trying.

As for the grip issues, I admit they can happen, especially since Covid and the 380 shortage have slowed regular range trips until recently. But I’m not having a problem with my CW380 so I’m reasonably sure that’s not it.

Thanks for the reply. I have been shooting the pocket for years. LCP's, Kahr, Pico's etc. The one thing I have learned is to change out the Recoil spring much more often than regular size guns. And very seldom go past 6-700 rds. The gun not cycling is a big sign that they need to be replaced expecially on the last round. I know this sounds like too early to change, but I swear by it. The gun last longer as well. As soon as I purchase a 380 or small 9, I buy extra recoil springs. When I use to own LCP's (I owed Many) I would change them out at 500 rds. Even then I had many that had to be replaced because of he cheap build quality. Cracks etc.

[SlowBurn]

Thanks for the reply. I have been shooting the pocket for years. LCP's, Kahr, Pico's etc. The one thing I have learned is to change out the Recoil spring much more often than regular size guns. And very seldom go past 6-700 rds. The gun not cycling is a big sign that they need to be replaced expecially on the last round. I know this sounds like too early to change, but I swear by it. The gun last longer as well. As soon as I purchase a 380 or small 9, I buy extra recoil springs. When I use to own LCP's (I owed Many) I would change them out at 500 rds. Even then I had many that had to be replaced because of he cheap build quality. Cracks etc.

I'm sure you're right. Subconsciously maybe I was overlooking that possibility because it's such a pain to install those springs when brand new. I just tried to order a set but at both Kahr and Midway the inner springs are available but the outer springs are out of stock. Strange. I'll try again in a week or so.

[Bawanna]

Might try Wolff as they probably made the springs and perhaps order the whole assembly, don't have to fight installation.

[berettabone]

You could try Galloway or MGW. I don't think you can get them from Wolff direct.

[dao]

How about trying the CW springs in the P?

[SlowBurn]

Thanks all. I left a request on the website, and Kahr notified me the outer spring is now back in stock, so the springs are on order.

[King Rat]

Be sure and order more than one. If you can afford it buy about half dozen if you shoot often. JMO.

[Allan D]

Recoil springs do not live very long in my CW380. Maybe 300-500 rounds until the spring fails my test.

While dry firing I watch the slide as I pull the trigger. A weak recoil spring will allow the slide to move a small amount as the striker spring is being compressed when the trigger is pulled. The slide moving indicates weak in battery recoil spring force. Time to change the springs.

[BirdsThaWord]

Recoil springs do not live very long in my CW380. Maybe 300-500 rounds until the spring fails my test.

While dry firing I watch the slide as I pull the trigger. A weak recoil spring will allow the slide to move a small amount as the striker spring is being compressed when the trigger is pulled. The slide moving indicates weak in battery recoil spring force. Time to change the springs.
Good info!

[King Rat]

The good part about Kahr springs is that they are strong from the beginning. One reason why they are mild shooters as well. Even when I owned the many LCP's, I bought Wolf 13# over the Stock $11lb. Even with that the LCP's never lasted long, before a Crack in the frame or grip. Kahr's will just keep on trucking long after the LCP's have folded.That and the fact that they put Steel inserts into the frame.

[BirdsThaWord]

The good part about Kahr springs is that they are strong from the beginning. One reason why they are mild shooters as well. Even when I owned the many LCP's, I bought Wolf 13# over the Stock $11lb. Even with that the LCP's never lasted long, before a Crack in the frame or grip. Kahr's will just keep on trucking long after the LCP's have folded.That and the fact that they put Steel inserts into the frame.
At $11 per lb for the stock one’s, I understand why you would want the Wolf’s!

19162

[King Rat]

Lol, Could not figure out what was so funny. Checked again Ya got me.

[BirdsThaWord]

Lol, Could not figure out what was so funny. Checked again Ya got me.
Cheers brother!