Is this right? From new owner

[Mk2dave]

I think I might know why my new to me pm40 was so inexpensive...

The front plastic guides(?) on the frame seem really worn, possibly broken.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51802537248_bde030f80b_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mVBxxW)
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51802777854_4e17e724aa_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mVCM5j)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/194749380@N08/51802537248/in/dateposted-public
https://flic.kr/p/2mVBxxW
https://flic.kr/p/2mVBxxW
https://flic.kr/p/2mVCM5j

Looking at the frame from the top, theirs a distinct hour glass shape to it.

https://flic.kr/p/2mVw4pA

Finally, the hole for the barrel in the slide is oval, and the barrel sits at the bottom.

https://flic.kr/p/2mVAVou

The photos make things look worse than they are. I'm just trying to see if anything else is broken besides two magazine followers. Thanks in advance. The trigger feels great, and I look forward to shooting it when it's ready.

I'm trying to attach pics with Flickr, not showing up on the preview. I'll address tonight.

[Bawanna]

The hour glass configuration of the frame is completely normal. Can't address the front plastic guides really without seeing it but they are just a guide to the metal guides up front, so I suspect they aren't an issue either.
The broken magazine guides are also somewhat normal or were for quite awhile. I think Kahr has since addressed that issue. You might have to remove a bit from the barrel feed ramp.
Many have also gotten Lakeline mag followers which help feeding and help with the breakage as well.

Welcome to our oasis, glad you found us.

[Mk2dave]

Hour glass shape:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51801467012_67f21858e4_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mVw4pA)

Barrel pic:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51802415596_b4044c8850_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mVAVou)

[yqtszhj]

I think I might know why my new to me pm40 was so inexpensive...

The front plastic guides(?) on the frame seem really worn, possibly broken.
https://flic.kr/p/2mVBxxW
https://flic.kr/p/2mVBxxW
https://flic.kr/p/2mVCM5j

Looking at the frame from the top, theirs a distinct hour glass shape to it.
https://flic.kr/p/2mVw4pA

Finally, the hole for the barrel in the slide is oval, and the barrel sits at the bottom.
https://flic.kr/p/2mVAVou

Everything is more apparent in person. I'm just trying to see if anything else is broken besides two magazine followers. Thanks in advance. The trigger feels great, and I look forward to shooting it when it's ready.

I'm trying to attach pics with Flickr, not showing up on the preview. I'll address tonight.

welcome Dave. The front plastic rails are just mostly for installation of the slide. The slide rides the 2 front dust cover rails and the 2 small metal guides at the rear of the frame. The appearance of an hour glass shape and hole for the barrel are about normal. The one thing you do have is the mag follower issues which does happen at times. You’ll probably be good to go with some new followers. Hope that helps.

[BirdsThaWord]

It does look like she’s had a few rounds through her. But, if you got a good deal I’d go ahead lube her up and shoot it like you stole it! Yes, taking pics up close with the flash on can really make things stand out that the naked eye would not pick up on. Welcome to the forum!

[Mk2dave]

Gosh, you guys are quick! Thanks for the feedback and information.

This thing is going to be a revelation compared to my HK USPC.

Anything else I should be conscience of? I cleaner her and lubed up generously. Mag springs were installed correctly - checking that is how I found the busted followers.

Looking at the wear, I hope that indicates she is a runner. Feed ramp needs a polish.

I have some more lurking to do around the site. I've seen the lube guide. More importantly, I FOLLOWED the lube guide!

Thanks for the warm welcome, gents!

[BirdsThaWord]

Gosh, you guys are quick! Thanks for the feedback and information.
This is not a “busy” forum, but I’ve found it to be looked at regularly by a few folks that are what I’d consider to be good natured and caring. That’s why I stuck around. There are a few here that are technical gurus who love to help when they can. I’ve certainly been helped here and have learned a lot. I’ve gone through A LOT of pistols (including various Kahr’s) in my quest to find what fits best for me and (thanks to the aforementioned help and knowledge gained) don’t think I’ll go to the grave without a Kahr in my carry rotation. Glad you found us and I hope your Kahr ends up being one you love, or at least a springboard to the Kahr that is just right for you!

[dao]

If memory serves it was the CM9's that were breaking followers. Also, the newer Kahr mags have a metal insert in the follower that prevents this. If you call Kahr they just might send you out some gratis.

Welcome to the Board!

[Mk2dave]

This is not a “busy” forum, but I’ve found it to be looked at regularly by a few folks that are what I’d consider to be good natured and caring. That’s why I stuck around. There are a few here that are technical gurus who love to help when they can. I’ve certainly been helped here and have learned a lot. I’ve gone through A LOT of pistols (including various Kahr’s) in my quest to find what fits best for me and (thanks to the aforementioned help and knowledge gained) don’t think I’ll go to the grave without a Kahr in my carry rotation. Glad you found us and I hope your Kahr ends up being one you love, or at least a springboard to the Kahr that is just right for you!

I feel like I'm well on my way. I'm curious to see how I like the .40 in such a small package, but time will tell.

Holsters. What do people do for holsters for the .40? I'm leaning towards a Hiddenholster, but there aren't a lot of options. I know Crossbreed makes one, but that doesn't tickle my fancy. Vedder makes one for the 9, but they seem skeptical that retention will be solid in the .40. I prefer Kydex or hybrid IWB at 4 oclock

[BirdsThaWord]

A PM40 or CM40 was my first Kahr (forget if it was a P or a C model)I carried it for a while before shooting it. Once I did shoot it, I could not get rid of it quick enough. It was too much for me. But, I am not you, so that may mean nothing. As far as holsters go, I’m kind of the wierdo on this site. I run a slide clip on my CW9. Have never had anything near a negligent discharge and doubt I will as I’m careful how I handle it and have practiced a ton (laser trainer) on drawing and reholstering. Thats just me though. I also don’t wear masks when I go out in public either, but to each his own. I’m sure somebody will chime in with some holster recommendations for you. The little 40 I had had a little leather pocket holster that made it look like a cell phone in the pocket. It had a leather flap on the inner side so that as you stuck your hand down into your pocket it guided your hand behind the grip. Had an embossed eagle logo on it. Thats about all I can remember, which is probably not very useful. Good luck finding the perfect holster though!

[getsome]

Welcome Mk2dave, glad you found us, like Bird said, there are many nice folks here and this is a good source of info on anything Kahr related…….Your pistol looks to have a few miles on her but that’s a good thing, it’s broken in and is a shooter……..From picture 3 top view of the frame the metal rails look a little dirty so get you some NON-Chlorinated brake cleaner (Green Can) at an auto parts store and clean those up until they shine, use a scotch bright pad if needed and when you reassemble it use some good gun grease on the front and rear rails…..It is always a good idea with an unknown pistol to replace the recoil spring assembly and mag springs which are inexpensive and gives you a baseline starting point going forward…….My first Kahr was a CW40 which was a problem child and was how I found this forum, mine was busting mag followers like crazy……..Kahr later fixed the problem but if I were you I would go to Lakeline.com and get some of their very nice aluminum followers which will solve that problem…..Alfonse is a member here and his products are first rate and I have them in all my Kahr magazines because they work well and improve feeding…….As said before the picture of the muzzle with the barrel sitting low with space at the top of the slide is perfectly normal for a Kahr and a brand new one will look exactly the same………So again welcome to Kahrtalk, good luck and let us know how she shoots…….

[Wlfman13]

Welcome, Mk2Dave!

all looks perfectly normal on your new(to you) PM40. I think of it this way… any scratches that are on it now, you woulda put them on yourself. And, the “worn” plastic rails are normal. You should see my P380 rails. Runs perfectly.

Broken mag followers can be normal, like others said. And like others said, I would order two aluminum mag followers from Lakeline and call it a day. They will last as long as you have the gun.

As for a recoil spring assembly, you could replace that but I would shoot it first. If it runs, it runs. But, I would order a new recoil spring as a backup. Kinda like having a backup bottle of ketchup, mustard, and mayo (or Miracle Whip if you have good taste) in the pantry. I’m sure I’ll get at least one nasty comment about the Miracle Whip, but not about the Lakeline followers. Everyone seems to be happy with those.

Welcome to the forum!

-Wlf

[DJK11]

Can you post a side view pict of the slide? More so a side view of the muzzle. Is it a blunt nose slide?

[dustnchips]

The reason the muzzle hole in the slide is oval is because the back of the barrel drops down during extraction. Without the clearance the barrel would bind in the hole in the slide. The back of the top hole holds the barrel in place when the gun is in battery. If you look closely at the hole you will see that the bottom is larger in the back for the same reason. Short story, the barrel locks up in the back of the top of the hole and the front of the bottom of the hole. Just check it for up and down movement when in battery and it should ease your mind.

[Mk2dave]

Can you post a side view pict of the slide? More so a side view of the muzzle. Is it a blunt nose slide?

I can't post pics from my phone. I'll jump on this tomorrow. What are you looking for? I took a pic perpendicular to the muzzle and then at maybe 15 degrees.

[DJK11]

Picture one and two of the front the plastic frame rails. The damage to the rails is from the slide bashing during recoil. I had an early, first iteration pm45. BEFORE the tapered nose on the slide. Let’s call it blunt nose or gen 1. The frame was tore up just like yours. You could feal the slide bashing the frame on recoil. As suggested by Kahr, I played with the recoil assembly. It went back to Kahr and they machined the frame to clean up the area in question. On the third trip back for the same issue, Kahr replaced the frame and all was good.

If one goes back ten or twelve years, that is when the tapered slide nose appears. The slides and barrels are about .125 longer than the blunt nose. I was told this change fixed the frame bashing. My replacement pm45 frame is machined to compensate. So in conclusion, I would contact Kahr with pictures and discuss swapping the frame.

[Mk2dave]

DJK, what your saying makes a lot of sense. Take a look at the pics and let me know what you see.
I know someone makes a recoil spring everyone likes... is it Wolf or Wolf-something? I'm wondering if a tired spring might also be in the mix.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51805277689_daba6fd36a_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mVRAbV)


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51805647015_525a72fbcc_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mVTtYB)

[dao]

There's nothing wrong in these last pictures. All Kahrs have that droop in the front. And it's Wolff springs you're thinking of. They can be found on eBay, and also gunsprings.com, but be prepared for frustration in going to the latter because their website can be challenging at times.

edit: Oh, and btw since your PM40 is a blunt nose it just might have a plastic/polymer mag release on it. If so you can call Kahr and either have them send you one for free, or they might possible charge you if the gun was registered to someone else originally. The plastic ones can wear out and cause premature ejection :D

[DJK11]

That’s the original version. Just look at the current ones and the nose of the slide is longer and tapered. The internal machining of the slide is also a bit different given the added length. New springs ain’t going to matter with the frame battering. Been there with the pm45. The older recoil assembly is shorter than the current offerings and coil count is two or three less on the outer spring. You can order new springs from Kahr and swap them out or an entire assembly. That’s IF they still offer the old version. I’d send them an email with pictures or call and see what they say.

And yes check that mag catch. We all hate premature ejection of the mag.

Almost forgot, the DLC is a great finish. Looks like yours was just oiled. Rub a drop of oil on the DLC and make the finish pop.

[Mk2dave]

That’s the original version. Just look at the current ones and the nose of the slide is longer and tapered. The internal machining of the slide is also a bit different given the added length. New springs ain’t going to matter with the frame battering. Been there with the pm45. The older recoil assembly is shorter than the current offerings and coil count is two or three less on the outer spring. You can order new springs from Kahr and swap them out or an entire assembly. That’s IF they still offer the old version. I’d send them an email with pictures or call and see what they say.

And yes check that mag catch. We all hate premature ejection of the mag.

Almost forgot, the DLC is a great finish. Looks like yours was just oiled. Rub a drop of oil on the DLC and make the finish pop.

Thank you everyone for the guidance. The slide WAS covered in oil, it was just so dry it all got sucked up. More oil to come.

I contacted Kahr re: the frame and mag release. I'll probably shoot this weekend and report. I do have 2 functional mags, but getting those followers are on my shopping list for the 2 suspect mags. I have 4 total mags.

If the poly rails don't affect function, its not high on my priority list. The premature ejection though, that's an issue.

[getsome]

The magazine issue is how I found this forum…..My CW40 would drop the magazine almost every time it was fired…..I found out from the nice folks here this was a common issue and Kahr had an improved mag catch spring assembly which they sent me for free and folks here talked me through changing it out which really wasn’t that hard and it fixed the mag drop problem…..

[DJK11]

Have a blast shooting it. If it was mine, but it’s not, I wouldn’t be concerned with the plastic rails but the frame in front of and below the front edge of the rails would concern me for sure.
My two cents.

[Mk2dave]

Have a blast shooting it. If it was mine, but it’s not, I wouldn’t be concerned with the plastic rails but the frame in front of and below the front edge of the rails would concern me for sure.
My two cents.

I'm not sure where you are referring to exactly, but when trying to figure it out I found this:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51806735803_73f0c24152_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mVZ4CP)

At some angles it looks machined, but at others it doesnt look machined. Anyone else have this?

Obviously, I'm not real familiar with these. As a school trained armorer (USMC), I know enough to know that someone else should take a look.

[dao]

There is a rather deep scoring right below the left frame rail in that dust cover, as well as right in front of it. I think that's what DJK is referring to. It does not look normal.

[Mk2dave]

There is a rather deep scoring right below the left frame rail in that dust cover, as well as right in front of it. I think that's what DJK is referring to. It does not look normal.

I'm tracking now. It looks worse in the pics, but another reason to be checked out.

[getsome]

The rails look a little rough but if you take a piece of 3M black 1500 grit paper wrapped around a pop-cycle stick you can smooth out any imperfections and make them shine like new…..Don’t worry about the little half moon cut on the left rail, that is supposed to be there…..Slick it up, lube it up and go shoot it…….

[Bawanna]

The little half moon is a witness mark for applying the polymer to the metal framework. All good.

[DJK11]

Okay one last try. It doesn’t look worse than it is . We zoom in to actually see how it is. Anyway attached are two pictures with the area I’m referring circled. One of them is your pistol the other is my pm45 with more than 7k down the pipe. This is the current version with the tapered muzzle not the frame that Kahr machined. The frame damage with yours is obvious. At lease to me.

[Mk2dave]

Okay one last try. It doesn’t look worse than it is . We zoom in to actually see how it is. Anyway attached are two pictures with the area I’m referring circled. One of them is your pistol the other is my pm45 with more than 7k down the pipe. This is the current version with the tapered muzzle not the frame that Kahr machined. The frame damage with yours is obvious. At lease to me.

I agree with you. That's why I'm sending it to Kahr so they can take check it out. I already have an RMA. That whole area is a mess. My concern about it is why I started this thread.

I am going to put a few mags through it to see what she feels like to start, but then it's a cleaning and off to factory.

[Mk2dave]

Good news! I put maybe 50 rounds through it, and everything worked really well. 1 failure to feed, seemingly due to a bad follower. The recoil isn't near what I expected. As a service pistol, I'd be less pleased. But as a carry pistol, no issues. I will say, though, the action of the slide doesn't feel smooth. I feels like it still needs to be broken in, which doesn't appear to be the case. So while it feels good now, I'm sending it off to Kahr and have her checked out.

Looks like turn around is 4-5 weeks. I'll update as appropriate.

[berettabone]

I don't know about you, but if my carry firearm didn't function just as well as a service firearm, I wouldn't carry it.........just me.

[DJK11]

One FTF out of fifty is one to many for a carry piece. Any carry is a service pistol. I get a laugh when some say just shoot it till it breaks. Well when will it break? Maybe when you need it most. I again could tell the story of the broken trigger bar on my pm9, but it’s been told a couple times. Old news.

Time to move on.

[Mk2dave]

I don't know about you, but if my carry firearm didn't function just as well as a service firearm, I wouldn't carry it.........just me.

My comment regarding the service pistol was in relation to recoil, not function. The FTF due to the follower is an easy fix that I'm not going to address until it comes back from kahr. Getting this thing up to standard is a process. I just said I was sending it away, so obviously I'm not considering it ready to carry.

On another note, I consider service and carry pistols very different. Both should be dead reliable, but generally a service style pistol found in the military and law enforcement are full size, heavier, hi cap mags, and generally aren't concerned with concealment. None of these attributes relate to the PM series. Therefore, they shoot different. And while the Kahr's recoil is sharp, it is commensurate with a small carry pistol.

[Mk2dave]

Received a call from Kahr yesterday. The wear that was evidenced on the poly rails was cleaned up, mag release switched to the metal one, and a side panel on the frame was replaced with a new design. They determined that the wear on the poly rails was not a case for concern. The gentleman on the phone actually said I could take a knife to those rails and cut them off, and it would not affect the operation. I wont take him up on that that, but that's what he said.

I'm curious to see what everything looks like when I receive back next week. The cost was reasonable, service was quick, and communication was strong.