Grip Technique on Micro Compact Pistols

[dubious_79]

Hi, I really enjoy the revolver like double action Kahr triggers. It's smoother than any smith and wesson I've ever shot. When I shoot a double action revolver I don't use the pad of the tip of my finger, I use the next part down past the crease for maximum strength and smoothness (see the pic below). Howeever, when I am shooting with a two hands forward grip. my trigger finger rubs against my support hand. It's an odd feeling, but it seems to work for me at the range. I'm considering keeping my support thumb off the pistol entirely to make more space for my index finger. What works for you guys? Do you use a two thumbs forward grip to maximize recoil control on these tiny double action pistols?

DOUBLE ACTION REVOLVER TRIGGER CONTROL

https://i.servimg.com/u/f26/19/14/74/76/tm/987a7110.jpg

TWO THUMBS FORWARD:
https://www.handgunsmag.com/files/2010/09/hgcombatg_100206a.jpg

[dao]

You're going to get multiple different answers, some similar and some contradictory, because this is something that is subjective to a high degree. There are so many factors that come into play such as hand size, hand strength, finger length and strength, age (arthritus?), purpose of use of your firearm, individual preference, weapon choice, etc. The best answer for me might not work as well for you.
The most important thing is to find what is most comfortable for you and leads to a natural point of aim, and then practice it until your grip becomes muscle memory and your accuracy is consistent. In a self defense situation there may not be enough time to think about your grip or even to adjust it once you've drawn your gun. That's why it is important to handle your weapon regularly and practice drawing and pulling the trigger while dry firing (and preferably using some sort of laser cartridge and target) and/or live fire at a range. All of this boils down to the fact that even if your grip and/or your trigger finger placement is so unorthodox that others would never consider using it themselves, if it works for you to the point where you can consistently hit your target multiple times in a very short span of time then you're doing it right.
Still, if you're new to shooting or just new to micro guns there's nothing wrong with asking for others' take on it. It gives you the opportunity to hear, read, and possibly see things that you haven't yet considered. And then to put together a grip technique that works best for you. Good luck!

[berettabone]

I could possibly use this technique with a full-size firearm, but not so much with a micro. I think one of the most important things is trying to use a 70-30 grip. 70% pressure with the hold hand and 30% with the trigger hand. Then trying to separate your trigger finger from everything else, as if it was a separate entity. Otherwise as dao mentioned, if you're hitting the target, you must be doing something right. :)

[King Rat]

I have been shooting the small guns, 380, micro 9mm for many years, It is my niche in the gun world. At the range you will very seldom see me shooting anything larger. Just my two cents, and the way I taught my son etc. On this small gun, it is essential to have a very tight grip grip with BOTH hands. The grip on the OFFHAND is of extreme importance. The off hand is where I see so many mistakes. You have got to control that muzzle flip. I also like the strong hand to fit well into the meaty tissue between the fore finger and the thumb. The same goes for the small 380's. Use the off hand for a big advantage. Also always use a pinky extension. That will always control the muzzle flip.
This is why gun selection is so very important. So many do not consider the off hand when buying a gun. In so many cases the gun just does not fit the individual.
I also see so many failures from small guns from Improper grip. That come mostly from one, limp wresting the gun or two from riding the slide.

Take for example this small gun. The Beretta Pico. I have leaned to shoot this gun very well. One of the reasons IMO is the amount of space Beretta Provided for the off hand. I can put pistol in the meaty tissue of my strong and and the little gun provides plenty of room for the offhand giving it a very solid grip. And again, the pinky extension are a must. They provide recoil control, and they provide a guick hook for drawing fast.
https://i.imgur.com/RZEDN0Y.png?1

Choose your Micro 9mm wisely, make sure it is the right grip for your hand. Again, just my two cents. It works for m.

[Bawanna]

Only thought going through my mine (not a lot of room) is revolvers and autos are two different animals. Crossed thumbs on a revolver are fine and acceptable to most. Big no no on an auto.
I also personally don't see the need for that much finger on the trigger on a Kahr. Do what works for you.

[RustyIron]

I also personally don't see the need for that much finger on the trigger on a Kahr. Do what works for you.


I'll just throw this out there...

My P380 is incredibly small, and there should be no expectation that it would properly fit anyone's hand unless they are unusually small in stature. But the appeal of the P380 is its diminutive size, and that's why I like it.

Long ago I noticed that my accuracy when shooting with the pad of the finger is not as good as when I'm shooting with the first joint of the finger. When dry firing, I can totally see why. When dry firing with the first joint, my sights remain perfectly on target--like a rock. When dry firing with the pad, there is a slight side-to-side jiggle of the sights. It's 100% repeatable, and it's been this way for years.

On a full-size gun, optimally, the trigger finger should extend along the side of the gun. But on the P380, the distance between the back of the grip and the trigger is so short, that to get the pad of my finger on the trigger, my finger needs to bend outward, away from the gun. The gap between my finger and the frame is about 1/2". This gap diminishes the stability of my grip on the gun, and results in reduced accuracy.

So I guess the takeaway should be that if you have a gun that its grossly mis-sized for your hands... or your hands are grossly mis-sized... it might be a good idea to completely reevaluate your grip on the gun.

[dao]

See?

Read all this, put your gun in your hand, and try the different things mentioned. Then do what enables you to shoot the gun well, on target, and quickly. It may or may not match any or all of this advice. And that's ok so long as you can use your weapon effectively should you need to.

[dubious_79]

I also personally don't see the need for that much finger on the trigger on a Kahr. Do what works for you.

Bawanna, I know you are an old timer here... what part of your finger do you use on Kahrs? What grip works for you?

For whatever it's worth I have been shooting pistols for 20 years and I'm a regular on other forums like The High Road. I'm pretty new to the Kahr forum, but I've been shooting Kahrs for about 8 years. When I'm shooting I generally use a 1 inch dot sticker target and get a 2-3 inch group at 7 yards. I'm a intermediate / advanced shooter.

[Bawanna]

"old timer" I completely resemble that. I pretty much use that first joint kind of like the fella shooting the auto in your photos. If the size of the gun and the trigger is agreeable I tend to lean perhaps a bit more towards the touchy pad part of the finger but usually more towards the joint. Bearing in mind that I'm a devout 1911 guy so the PM45 which plays second fiddle doesn't get carried quite as much. But surprisingly the transition from 1911 to the PM45 is easy and natural for me which it totally weird.
Some good points have been brought up in that some guns are so small that the pad really can be a challenge. And the reach of course is very short. I don't do 380's so don't go that small except I have a Colt and Browning Vest pocket which might be even a tad smaller yet. I don't carry them so a moot point.

Old timer he says........what was the question again, where's Kamala?

[getsome]

Lots of good stuff on this thread, I grew up shooting S&W j and k frame revolvers and always used the first joint of my trigger finger because the double action required it and it just seems normal to me and when I’ve tried to shoot any pistol with only the pad it just didn’t work……I have a Beretta Pico .380 and King Rat showed in his post how I shoot it and my PM9 with a very firm grip on both firing hand and support hand with a good bit of support hand thumb pressure on the frame side to prevent the dreaded low left pull from a right handed shooter…….Some of the best advice I’ve heard and works well for me came from pro shooter Rob Leatham when he said you should grip the gun like you would hold a rattlesnake by the neck to keep it from biting you in the face……..I was guilty of using too loose of of grip until I tried using a really tight grip and it really improved my accuracy with the Pico and PM9 and I actually shoot both micro guns better than my full size M&P 9 for some reason……Everybody is different and like DAO said, you just have to practice and figure out what works for you personally…….

[Bawanna]

I prefer Josey Wales on grip when he said you gotta get a little mad dog mean. It's sort of like some guys, you get the most work out of them when you piss them off. Take a new shooter especially a female and tell her your gonna harm her or her offspring, get her pissed off mad and she'll choke that grip and ruin your day.

[King Rat]

As "GETSOME" said, I am also big fan of Rob Leatham. Always so much practical sense (IMO). From trigger control, to proper grip to shooting fast to target without sights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4yOIL40dcQ&ab_channel=GunsAmerica

[BirdsThaWord]

When shooting a revolver, don’t be a hot dog:
https://youtu.be/t6vMkk8VYzc
And make sure you have an assistant like this one (Kahr involved too)
https://youtu.be/uyUP4Ac_bb8

[Bawanna]

Farm Girl is funner to watch the Leatham. Just sayin.

[King Rat]

Farm Girl is funner to watch the Leatham. Just sayin.


Yea, but she would get you killed. A MAJOR distraction. Watch from a computer only. HOTTER THAN HOT!

[Bawanna]

I can't grip real tight from the computer?

[Ralph III]

QUOTE by dubious_79..."When I shoot a double action revolver I don't use the pad of the tip of my finger, I use the next part down past the crease for maximum strength and smoothness (see the pic below). However, when I am shooting with a two hands forward grip. my trigger finger rubs against my support hand....I'm considering keeping my support thumb off the pistol entirely to make more space for my index finger. What works for you guys? Do you use a two thumbs forward grip to maximize recoil control on these tiny double action pistols?"

Hello Dubious,
As DAO stated, you'll get a lot of different opinions on this subject, as with anything firearms related as it seems. I've been shooting for nearly 50 years, so I'll offer my two cents. The bottom line however is that people need to use whatever technique works best for them.

*My grip starts with a one handed grip similar to the picture you referenced. This is a very strong grip because you are maximizing hand contact on the pistol and fully utilizing the thumb. I then wrap my support hand around my pistol hand with it's thumb falling on top of the pistol hands thumb. So both thumbs are aiding with support of the firearm. I disagree with the notion you get maximum recoil control with the thumbs forward method. I can shoot either but crossed thumbs offer the greater stability for me.

There are times however when my trigger finger does slightly rub against the support hand thumb as I am pulling the trigger. It depends on the pistol that I am shooting and it really has no affect on my accuracy (to many years shooting). I simply make a minor adjustment because the goal should always be to isolate the trigger finger.

Anyhow, this grip works very well for me and I've always been a highly proficient shooter. The thumb over thumb grip also utilizes both thumbs in a strong fashion whereas the thumbs forward grip does not. It's really a matter of preference though.

*In regards to using the pad of the finger or the finger joint. The more finger you have on the trigger the less conducive for accuracy. Because you are introducing side pressure to the trigger in addition to rear pressure, as you pull it. This is easily demonstrated by putting the trigger in the joint of you finger and pulling the trigger. Your finger will apply backward force as well as some side force to the trigger as you pull the trigger and as your finger wraps around it.

In contrast, it's nearly impossible to introduce such side pressures to the trigger while using the tip of the finger. So it's better to learn to shoot using the pad of your finger -vs- the joint.

Having said that, yes you'll need to use more of your finger, even to the joint, with pistols that have a heavy trigger pull such as revolvers. Accomplished shooters simply adjust to this type trigger pull to insure they are pulling it straight back. It's just difficult to use the pad of your finger on many revolvers. Whereas, if I were shooting a gun with a very light trigger I'd use the very tip of my finger to minimize any possible disruption.

So your gun will play a factor in both the precise grip and trigger pull you utilize. That's why it's important to pick a gun that you are comfortable with and then to practice regularly with it. Especially if you carry.

Happy Easter,
Ralph









1)

[yqtszhj]

Hi, I really enjoy the revolver like double action Kahr triggers. It's smoother than any smith and wesson I've ever shot. When I shoot a double action revolver I don't use the pad of the tip of my finger, I use the next part down past the crease for maximum strength and smoothness (see the pic below). Howeever, when I am shooting with a two hands forward grip. my trigger finger rubs against my support hand. It's an odd feeling, but it seems to work for me at the range. I'm considering keeping my support thumb off the pistol entirely to make more space for my index finger. What works for you guys? Do you use a two thumbs forward grip to maximize recoil control on these tiny double action pistols?

DOUBLE ACTION REVOLVER TRIGGER CONTROL

https://i.servimg.com/u/f26/19/14/74/76/tm/987a7110.jpg

TWO THUMBS FORWARD:
https://www.handgunsmag.com/files/2010/09/hgcombatg_100206a.jpg

my experience has been try different techniques for the pistol you are shooting and go with what works for your hand size, finger length, and dexterity. Do what allows you to pull straight back and you won’t tend to pull left or right is what I look for.

[BirdsThaWord]

I can't grip real tight from the computer?
You can, just don’t let the wifey catch you “gripping” to Farm Girl! :rain:

[lesptr]

You can, just don’t let the wifey catch you “gripping” to Farm Girl! :rain:

https://media4.giphy.com/media/l378bu6ZYmzS6nBrW/giphy.gif

[bugs]

I use both thumbs forward on my CM9 , but use the pad on the trigger because I pull shots if my trigger finger touches my thumb ; dry firing confirmed a twich . I also have a patch of Talon tape on the frame ( from the slide stop pin hole to the end of the frame ) as a "memory patch" .


NRA LIFER

IDPA BELIEVER