Range report/ New Kahr P9 (black diamond slide)

[oldjarhead]

Well, I finally bought a black diamond Kahr P9, and went to the range with 200 rounds or so, of Sellier and Bellot 124g FMJ for break in. I had three 8 round mags, and two 7 rounds. Two of the 8 round mags were older already broken in well, when I owned a PM9. Those two mags worked well. The others were very stiff, so I guess they needed breaking in too.i had about half a dozen FTFs as the nose of the bullet stuck on the feed ramp. Had some issues with the slide not going forward all the way forward by quarter inch. I will keep at it. I am sure it will smooth out with more use. A range master at the range, said that Kahrs actually run 300- 500 rounds for break in, and then he said they are great. Anyone have a similar experience with a P9 or another Kahr pistol? Did you have to shoot a lot more than 200 rounds to work the bugs out, till it smoothed out?:confused:

[Bawanna]

Shouldn't need more than the 200 and usually don't even need that. Might smooth out the follower a bit on the new magazines. Good solid grip, and run it a bit wet. It will get more forgiving as time goes by.

[King Rat]

I am totally convinced beyond any doubt that Magazine Springs and recoil springs, especially the strong Magazines springs of Kahr need to take a "SET" for about 2 or three days. Load the new mags up to full capacity and put them away. I then take a dowel or UPULA and exercise the springs. Another hobby of mine besides shooting powder burners is shooting "Spring" powered Air Rifles. Always discussions on springs and testing etc. Not unusual for a owner to buy a $700 rifle, get it home and order a "Custom" spring for it. One of the best custom spring makers use to always put in the order form the question of "do you prefer for him to set the spring or you set it"? I also believe that magazine springs and recoil springs should be replaced earlier than most do. Especially Small guns like 380's.
When a new Kahr is brought home and the springs set, just rack the slide while watching TV etc. When shooting at the range, I never load up to full capacity.
Many people will pull out a recoil spring and see it shorter than a new spring and declare it worn. Nope, it has just where the normal set is. Unless it is worn and shells are not ejecting at the normal distance. And keep your mags CLEAN! I also never keep a mag loaded for extended times. For me, it is not something open for discussion. I just do not do it. When I purchase a new gun, (which I just did) the first thing I do is order additional magazine and recoil springs. I also keep two Mags, set aside for Carry only.
If you are a avid shooter, you will end up with a whole lot of mags. Invest in a sonic cleaner. Throw them in with one filled with "Ballistol "MILK". Then dry with a can of compressed air. The milk leaves a very fine, layer of Protection and makes the mags slicker than snot.

And as Bawanna just mentioned, get a "SOLID" grip and do not ride the slide. IMO limp wresting is one of the biggest reasons guns are sent back to the shop. People will swear they do not do it, but they do. They love to blame the gun. Kahr makes a fine gun, total quality built with tight tolerances (or should I say clearances). A little bit of time and patience pays off with huge rewards.



Lol, dang, I love revolvers.

PS here is something I copied from another forum a few years back. Makes for a interesting read.
I have a minute this morning, and ZERO "inside information" on Kahr's tolerances, scrap rate, or anything else directly related to facts that would answer the OP's question.
With that disclaimer out of the way, I'm going to posit, based upon personal experience that Kahr's small 9mm handguns are built to tighter tolerances than most others on the market. I'm only basing that upon my personal experience and observations made while going through the FACTORY RECOMMENDED break-in period that I, like most here experienced when we brought our brand new 9mm CM/PM handguns home.
Many have decried that break-in requirement. Some have made statements to the effect of "I'm not gonna trust my life to a weapon that doesn't run perfectly from the very first round". Interestingly enough..I get that. Building a handgun, or assault rifle ( for example) that runs perfectly from round one, that runs under any possible adverse conditions is not hard to do...you simply loosen the manufacturing tolerances and allow "slop" to be built in. The AK47 is a good example of a very dependable, excellent weapon with a lot of tolerance built in. The compromise is loss of precision. Custom built .45 acp 1911 Clark longslide NRA bullseye pistols are at the other end of that spectrum. 100% reliability wasn't MANDATORY because we got to put our hand up for an "alibi" in an NRA match. There aren't any "alibi"s" in defensive shooting.
I've often described my CM9 as being analogous to a Lamboughini of defensive handguns. When the CM/PM9 series was introduced...it was the hottest setup on the market. Mr. Moon created a genuine hi-performance sidearm and I'm convinced tight tolerances were part of his formula.
Your opinion may vary.

I'd like to see us stop confusing "tolerance" with "clearance." Tolerance is the allowed variance of a machined dimension to it's designed dimension. In other words, .500" +/- .002 is a tolerance reference where +/- .002" is the tolerance. The part can be anywhere from .498" to .502" and be within tolerance. Clearance is the space between 2 mating surfaces. so while Kahr may make parts that are .500" that mate with a part that's .498" that's .002" clearance not .002 tolerance. Other manufacturers than Kahr make their firearms with looser clearances, Kahr makes theirs with tighter clearances. If you say something is built to tight tolerances (a VERY, VERY good thing in machining) it means nothing in terms of how loose or tight the fitment of the parts is. Some will design and manufacture to loose clearances because they can't/don't/won't machine to tight tolerances (the tighter the tolerance the more expensive the machining is) and so must design in more clearance to make up for it. Ever held a gun that seems to rattle? That gun has wider clearances than the one that doesn't rattle. It may be made from parts with tolerances in the +/- .0002's but the clearances are much more open. My $.02 as a manufacturer, although I think people who don't understand the difference will always refer to tight "clearances" as tight "tolerances". My semantics rant over...carry on.
I don’t care about the naysayers’ criticism of Kahr’s break-in recommendation. It’s only common sense to make sure that a self protection firearm, or any mechanical device for that matter, should be broken in by the end user to assess its functionality.
Kudos to Kahr for being pragmatic.
Judging from what I have read in multiple gun forums over the past 20 years, it might behoove all firearms manufacturers to be honest and do the same.

[DavidR]

The P9 I owned needed a break in of about 200 rounds. The barrel to slide fit was very tight and maybe a half dozen times the barrel locked up in the slide.

[Bawanna]

I've said it a thousand times. All guns need break in if for no other reason than to build a relationship with the owner.
Kahr is one of the few that actually is up front about that.
Most of mine ran fine pretty much right out of the box. My PM45 back when ammo was reasonable and available ran 350 rounds, first session without a hiccup. Me and my son both shooting it.
My K40 balked a bit but turned out the barrel slide relationship was not correct and the barrel hood was peening. Don't hear much about that any more.
Even the high end Wilson's and Ed Browns indicate a break in of I don't recall how many rounds. Like King Rat said, the tighter they are built the more help they might need to be right.

[FreeMe]

Excellent post, King Rat,

None of my Kahrs or their mags have needed more than 200 rounds for break in. But - the chambers tend to run tighter than most other pistols and won't tolerate (sorry, KR) ammo that hasn't been sized or crimped properly. I have had failures to fully chamber in the K9 with some ammo of questionable quality that ran just fine in my BHP for instance. I've tried Sellier and Bellot 9mm ammo one time long ago, and never will again.

[King Rat]

I've said it a thousand times. All guns need break in if for no other reason than to build a relationship with the owner.
Kahr is one of the few that actually is up front about that.
Most of mine ran fine pretty much right out of the box. My PM45 back when ammo was reasonable and available ran 350 rounds, first session without a hiccup. Me and my son both shooting it.
My K40 balked a bit but turned out the barrel slide relationship was not correct and the barrel hood was peening. Don't hear much about that any more.
Even the high end Wilson's and Ed Browns indicate a break in of I don't recall how many rounds. Like King Rat said, the tighter they are built the more help they might need to be right.

As they say. "Become one with the gun".

Kind of reminds me of a a Young Pup. Yea, he needs a little break in. But done right and he is your friend for life.
What gets me is that People go into the purchase of the gun knowing that it is made to perfection with tight tolerances/Clearances. Lol, one of the reason I bought the Kahr's in the first place. I "EXPECTED" a number of rounds, even if it was 200 rds to break in. And 200 rds? Lol that is not even much ammo to begin with. Heck, I shoot that at one range session. No bid deal.

[Bawanna]

I had several officers at my old dept who always brought me their new personal guns for show and tell, often times I helped find them and facilitate the purchase. I couldn't believe how many bought them as back up or off duty guns. I'd ask them weeks after they got them how they shoot. Only to find out they were carrying it daily and had never shot the thing!!!!!!

Back in the normal days I had a minimum 500 rounds fired before I felt it was ready for carry. I lowered that to 350 as time went on. Now I rarely get to shoot but still don't carry unfired guns ever.

[King Rat]

As they say. "Become one with the gun".

Kind of reminds me of a a Young Pup. Yea, he needs a little break in. But done right and he is your friend for life.
What gets me is that People go into the purchase of the gun knowing that it is made to perfection with tight tolerances/Clearances. Lol, one of the reason I bought the Kahr's in the first place. I "EXPECTED" a number of rounds, even if it was 200 rds to break in. And 200 rds? Lol that is not even much ammo to begin with. Heck, I shoot that at one range session. No bid deal.

I believe this is especially common with the vast majority of owners. People are buying gun's in record numbers but not shooting them. It would not surprise me to see about one box fired when new and then put away. Just like you hear about shotguns that just go into a closet. I remember a lady friend that said she carried daily and when asked what firearm? She could not remember and then went looking in her purse to find it. Which took what seemed like 2 minutes.
I sold a Ruger LCP to a friend with the caveat that he spend some quality time with the gun, otherwise it is useless. I even gave him a box of ammo. About three years later, I asked him how he liked the LCP and he said he had never shot it.
One guy was telling me about his wife's Charter Arms snubbie and how she was a excellent shot with it. I then asked what range does she go to and how often. He said, "Well we have not been to a range in years". I said that I love shooting Snubbies but find that I have to go often to keep up with my skills. Short barrel Snubbies require diligent practice and training. He just said "Well she grew up in a shooting family and does not need go to the range. Of course he did not either with his Sig SP2022 in 40.caliber.

I see this all the time. I am a member of a indoor range close to home. I go there about once a week, have been for 20 years. I cannot remember when I have seen a regular ever come in other than a guy that was dedicated to a Desert Eagle. In fact, I do not ever see a recognizable face. I do see more at my club that are dedicated to shooting and competition etc. But most people that join the club go about twice a year.

So in essence, when I hear someone make a comment and disparages the Kahr because of the Break in time, I just laugh and say OK, yep, 200 rds is a lot of ammo. In my mind I am saying, yep, ya shoot 50 rds per year.
And most likely will shoot 50 rounds, limp wrist the gun or ride the slide and then Bash the snot out of the Kahr.
I remember this guy at the range years ago. He was bashing the hell out of Ruger and the SR9C. Said he sent it in twice and still they have not got it right. Said the gun was a piece of crap. I watched him shoot and then said, Sir, I own one of those guns and would he mind if I shot it. he said sure. I then shot 10 rds with terrific group at 15 yds with no problems. He was riding the slide. Same thing with a Beretta Nano, this clown was limp wresting the gun and bashing it like a red headed step child.
I am a RO at my club, I see these complaints all the time. Gun shoots low, fails to eject, (Most do not know ejection from extraction) and on and on.

[berettabone]

I have experienced a lot of this over the years myself. Not only do people not shoot their firearm, but they walk around with a dry, unfired firearm, never been cleaned and full of lint and pocket fuzz. Loaded up with Tula FMJ ammo. Many of the firearms have minimal sights and not much grip. Personally, I don't believe people should carry until they've had some sort of training and practice. Too many cowboys, not enough horses. When my wife got her first firearm, I used to make her just sit with it, fondle it, get used to the feel. Break it down and clean it. Learn it like it was a third appendage. The conceal carry classes these days are a joke. Mine was 9 hrs. with a qualifying shoot. Muzzle someone and your gone. An hour or two about legal ramifications is a good thing but make them shoot the damn thing.

[oldjarhead]

Excellent post, King Rat,

None of my Kahrs or their mags have needed more than 200 rounds for break in. But - the chambers tend to run tighter than most other pistols and won't tolerate (sorry, KR) ammo that hasn't been sized or crimped properly. I have had failures to fully chamber in the K9 with some ammo of questionable quality that ran just fine in my BHP for instance. I've tried Sellier and Bellot 9mm ammo one time long ago, and never will again.

What was it about Sellier and Bellot ammo you did not like? What your favorite range ammo, and self defense ammo?

[ripley16]

My P9 was one of the few trouble free models I owned. I liked it a lot and shot it a lot. Traded it for a similar sized Walther PPS. Nice gun but I should have kept the P9. Later bought a S9.
I've never really accepted a "break in" rational towards function failures. A gun should work reliably from round one. Almost all of the many guns I've owned have worked out of the box. Gun springs should be ready to function, no question.
Congrats on the new Kahr. I hope it becomes reliable soon.

[King Rat]

I have experienced a lot of this over the years myself. Not only do people not shoot their firearm, but they walk around with a dry, unfired firearm, never been cleaned and full of lint and pocket fuzz. Loaded up with Tula FMJ ammo. Many of the firearms have minimal sights and not much grip. Personally, I don't believe people should carry until they've had some sort of training and practice. Too many cowboys, not enough horses. When my wife got her first firearm, I used to make her just sit with it, fondle it, get used to the feel. Break it down and clean it. Learn it like it was a third appendage. The conceal carry classes these days are a joke. Mine was 9 hrs. with a qualifying shoot. Muzzle someone and your gone. An hour or two about legal ramifications is a good thing but make them shoot the damn thing.

I could not agree more. Amazing how people will not clean their frigging gun. Not even bother to just open it up and wipe the crud out or clean the extractor. And just go to any indoor range and watch how dangerous some people are. Many have zero knowledge of how their own gun works, much less how to shoot. And even complain if a Range Officer stops their behavior.

https://i.imgur.com/Z5nGWZS.jpg?1



Son, you failed to maintain your weapon (great movie)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9Z0yr49xXw&ab_channel=officialsgf