Just me?????

[berettabone]

You're the owner of a firearms store. A kid who just turned 18 comes in and buys a Daniels Defense AR and some ammo. Then he comes in a couple days later and buys another AR plus lots more ammo. These aren't cheap AR's. Considering the area and age of the kid, and even though everything was legal, wouldn't this raise some red flags with you, the owner? This kid didn't buy this stuff with a paper route. Where was the gun store owner with this? No common sense? No red flags? If it were me, I'd be asking some questions and my spidey senses would be at full tilt. WTF? I could have been a broke store owner and I still wouldn't have sold him any of that firepower, legal or not. Sometimes common sense has to come in to play.

[JohnR]

Maybe the store owner could take notes, but you can’t refuse a legal sale.

But, do we know he bought them at a store?

[Bawanna]

That's where I stray from the pack. I feel if it's my store gun shop or otherwise I can refuse service or sale to anyone.
Like the baker that didn't want to make a cake for a gay wedding. I got no problem with that, go someplace else.
The Barber that refused to cut hair on an HIV person, ok with me. Maybe he didn't understand if there was a risk or not but no matter, it's his shop.
Any reason at all, I don't like you, get out of my shop.
Unfortunately now days you refuse its because they are black, white, Korean, Gay, Lisbian, Tranny, etc. And since it goes in both directions I'm ok with that too. If the owner is really racists he won't last long in business and I'm ok with that too.
In this case there are a billion time more 18 year olds who loved guns from birth, just waiting to hit 18 so they could buy one. Personally I'm rather proud of my profiling skills which of course I wasn't allowed to use during my employment. I probably would be the broke gun shop owner too as I'd probably refuse a lot of sales, plus wanting to keep them all for myself. Just wouldn't work.

[Bawanna]

Maybe the store owner could take notes, but you can’t refuse a legal sale.

But, do we know he bought them at a store?

Plus the store owner has to call or mail in for a back ground check. If the guy gets by the profiling and the check comes back ok, then he's really got no reason to refuse the sale. It's really hard to pinpoint these nut cakes, I've heard we're all nut cakes, just right on the line to slip over at any moment. Good versus evil is determined by those able to stay on the right side of the line.
They'll probably crucify the cop that shot him since he wasn't breast fed as a child and the head cheerleader wouldn't go out with him. The world we live in.

[JohnR]

I don’t disagree with refusing service to obvious nutjobs. It’s the closet nutjobs we gotta worry about. Plus, I can imagine going into Biden Gun ‘n Pawn and wanting to buy an AR15, and the owner says, “What in God’s name do you need an assault weapon for except to kill someone? Get out!”

[jeepster09]

If more people carried this most likely would not of happened. The people in the position to protect the kids dropped the ball here.
Employee of school propping open a security door! The police not doing their job of "protect and serve" waiting for SWAT when an active shooter is in school shooting!
Hopefully people will lose their jobs and pensions over this, lives could of been saved. As a former leo, I feel their actions were not acceptable! We can not blame the gun.
I do wonder how the kid could afford what he had???? Was he a pawn?

[DavidR]

How could he afford it? Maybe he used a credit card. Lots of people buy things they can’t afford using credit. Most of the young people driving BMWs can’t afford them. I bet there are people spending a lot of money on guns while complaining they can’t afford health insurance.

Buying stuff you can’t afford is the American way.

[JohnR]

I still can’t comprehend waiting to go in. There are news stories of parents trying to go in and being handcuffed or tazed. I hope those are fake stories, otherwise Houston, we have a problem.

[DavidR]

The background check is supposed to eliminate the need for a subjective determination made by the gun store owner. Obviously that’s not working. We have no idea how many times a tragedy was averted because a gun store refused to make a sale. We only know it didn’t happen here.

Relying on a gun store owner to make a subjective determination or blaming a gun store owner who made a sale may open up gun store owners to lawsuits. Doing that is for all intents and purposes a weapons ban. We need to be very careful about blaming store owners who make legal sales.

[DavidR]

I still can’t comprehend waiting to go in. There are news stories of parents trying to go in and being handcuffed or tazed. I hope those are fake stories, otherwise Houston, we have a problem.

I feel the same way. I thought I read somewhere that they didn’t have the necessary tools to breach a steel outward opening door.

[King Rat]

One of the things I have noticed over the years can be seen at one of my indoor ranges. Some of these "Brats" will come into the Pistol range with a AR and shoot hundreds of rounds. I mean like money is nothing to them. And what is a common trait among them? Actually two. One is they cannot shoot worth a damn. (I do better with a handgun) and 2) These sorry MF's just walk out and leave the Brass on the floor. I have sweep up their mess more than once. Spoiled Rotten PUNKS!

I have a picture somewhere, I will try and find.

[Armybrat]

My son’s FarmCredit Bank of Texas has a branch in Uvalde. Two of their employees lost their children in the massacre.
Son is in charge of coordinating their other 55 branch bank contributions to a fund for all the families involved. A Uvalde organization will distribute the funds to make sure that they stay local.

I read one source that said the killer worked at the local Wendy’s long enough to save $4,000.

My son in years past has hunted on a nearby 30,000 acre ranch owned by his friend’s family. There are some very wealthy ranching familes in the area, incluuding that of the late Governor Dolph Briscoe which owns 400,000 acres. Financial help will not be a problem, but those affected families will never be the same again.
Just a gut-wrenching tragedy.

[JohnR]

I feel the same way. I thought I read somewhere that they didn’t have the necessary tools to breach a steel outward opening door.
Shoot the effing lock. It works in the movies, anyway. Break a window. Call the faculty member who propped it open earlier.

[jeepster09]

They could of drove a squad threw it.

[Bawanna]

They could of drove a squad threw it.

That's what I would have done. The guys used to say if they ever really got in the crap to call me as I didn't play by the rules.
I advocated my whole time there that every officer should get SWAT training and have the best equipment, not just SWAT. SWAT always got the best stuff and patrol the hand me downs.

[berettabone]

I don't know if it's true, but I read that a mother drove there. She was handcuffed. She got out of the handcuffs. She climbed over a fence, went in the school and led her two kids to safety, while LE was waiting in the hallway.

[yqtszhj]

Any reason at all, I don't like you, get out of my shop.

.

that’s how my local gun shop operates. He said he never had to run anyone out until the Covid riots started then every nut job started coming in like a flood.

[getsome]

This one didn’t seem right in several ways, the news said the punk didn’t have a drivers license and I’m not aware of Texas Law but in Georgia you must have a valid drivers license or Government issued ID to buy a gun and once I had to redo a 4473 because I left off the N.E. after my street address so the 4473 would match my license exactly so they tore it up and made me fill out a new one…..The second thing is where did the money come from to buy two very expensive rifles and 100 magazines filled with ammo……..The grandfather said he had no idea the kid had all this stuff or where it came from and I don’t know what Wendy’s is paying these days but that would take a chunk of change, he may have stolen the grandfathers credit card to buy the stuff, I don’t know but hopefully all that will come out……The part that makes me really angry is there were over a dozen Police Officers inside the school in the hallway for almost an hour waiting on SWAT to get there while kids were calling 911 begging for police to come…….The officers story is the door to the class room was locked and they didn’t have a key and figured the shooter was now in a barricade situation so the school Police Chief told them to stand down until Border Patrol SWAT got there to kill the bastard……

[Bawanna]

He had a 100 magazines? I did not know that. I saw a deal awhile ago where his mom said she didn't know anything but please don't judge her son! Well guess what, somebody had to know he was off and I judged.

[getsome]

Fox News reported that he had 30 loaded magazines in a shoulder bag inside the school and they found a backpack on the ground next to his grandfathers wrecked truck full of loaded magazines…….Some things that are strange about this is why did he happen wreck the truck right next to the school?….The first story that came out was the police were chasing him when he wrecked and then exchanged gunfire with him before jumping the fence and going into the school but that story has been debunked and never really happened……The next odd thing to me is how did an unnamed teacher just happen to unlock and leave propped open a back entrance to the school just as the shooter showed up…….I just don’t believe in coincidences and that timeline is a little hard to believe and I have to wonder if the teacher that left the door propped open to go outside and use a cell phone really exists or will ever be identified…………

[Armybrat]

Don’t go jumping to conclusions.
Supposedly some kids were out at recess on the grounds and they obviously had to have access to return to class. That could be one explanation for the alleged open door.
Look at an aerial photo of the school layout. It is a series of buildings with open air covered hallways, apparently.

[JohnR]

Whaddya know, the Uvalde police had an active shooter drill at the high school in March. Fat lotta good it did.

https://nypost.com/2022/05/25/texas-shooting-salvador-ramos-hs-held-active-shooter-drill-weeks-before-massacre/# (https://nypost.com/2022/05/25/texas-shooting-salvador-ramos-hs-held-active-shooter-drill-weeks-before-massacre/#)

[berettabone]

I have always had respect for LE, but in this case. there are a whole lot of cops that just shouldn't be cops. Maybe a stint at the 711. Stay close to the donuts. Big sodas. Occasional shoplifter. Oh, all of that paperwork.

[dao]

I hope that the media stays with this long enough that ALL of the facts are learned and allowed to come out. There's more to this story I'm sure than what's been discussed here. But one thing that cannot be denied is that here there is yet another sad instance of someone out of his mind going into a gun free zone and taking it over with a gun. The times have changed and until authority and municipalities change with it this will keep happening. There is no short answer to what needs to be done that will prevent these things from occurring but it is clear that security at our schools needs to be always present, more evident, vigilant, and well-trained.

[Bawanna]

One has to remember that cops are like soldiers. A higher ranking officer says stand down and wait, then that's what supposed to happen. Can't paint all cops with the same brush.
In this age of liability higher ups don't want to risk losing an officer or anything that might come back and bite them.
We were seldom allowed to pursue bad guys back when anyone was allowed to pursue. We'd hear officer in pursuit and a Sgt or Commander comes on and says discontinue follow at legal with no lights. County had no restraints, they would take over or State Patrol.

[dao]

Good point Colonel.

[JohnR]

Liability… I expect that department is going to get sued out of existence for their obsession with avoiding liability.

[yqtszhj]

Saddest part of it all is that everyone wants to blame the gun and not accept that we have “progressed” to become a sick society that has no value for human life unless it’s the values of the cross dressing athlete and the people that want to burn down our cities.

ok, I’ve said enough already.

[berettabone]

I understand that officers must obey their superiors. I understand that it's military style. Well, the military goes in and takes out targets. Sometimes, extraordinary circumstances dictate extraordinary measures. I understand that LE has families and they want to go home at night. The question is, do cops want to become cops to save lives, use common sense, and help people, and make sure laws are obeyed, or do they want to arrest shoplifters and give out tickets? Does this mindset affect their performance, decision making, and the lives of others they swore to protect? I am sure that if an officer would have disobeyed an order to stand down and was dismissed, he would become a very rich man indeed. Would you want to live with what happened as an officer? Mostly everyone here agrees that they should have gone in. I believe that most here would have ignored any type of order from anyone and tried to do something and would have worried about the ramifications later.

[JohnR]

“Anonymous” officer speaks out. They were in the hallway outside the classroom, waiting for orders, he says.

https://www.ksat.com/news/texas/2022/05/30/were-just-going-to-stand-here-with-our-thumbs-up-our-aes-officer-who-responded-to-uvalde-massacre-said-police-felt-like-cowards/

[dao]

Question is now, were any additional kids killed after they were told to stand down? The answer to that may be something that could make the lives involved a living hell for their remaining time on earth. Even if they were obediently following orders as they are trained and required to do. Not the same as losing a child yet still terrible.

[jeepster09]

Liability… I expect that department is going to get sued out of existence for their obsession with avoiding liability.


Only problem there is suing department is SUING THEMSELVES. Government has very deep pockets when it isn't their money.
All the cops that were there and did not attempt to save kids needs to be FIRED and lose pensions and all benefits.

[Bawanna]

Chances are if everything worked out and they disobeyed orders they would be hero's and no problem. If one little thing went wrong and a kid was hit by a cop or any other bad thing, they would be fired and lose their pension anyhow. It seems insane that they would be fired now for following orders. The commander and the chief perhaps deserve to be fired but again we don't know all the many little details.
I'm sure it's just like the interview above, they wanted to go in, they were pissed that they couldn't go in.
Somebody not even there and not fully aware of the circumstances made the decision. You see that a lot in police work and others as well. Kind of like our current administration.

[JohnR]

True, it seems to be the new normal in organizational management. I hear about it in other industries too. Outcome be damned, follow the procedures.

Reminds me of The Caine Mutiny.

[Bawanna]

We had an incident a few years back at the front desk of the dept. I'm very poor in the hearing dept but all of a sudden several officers ran past my desk in a hurry. Turns out a guy reached across the desk and smacked an officer, knocking off his radio mike and the fight was on. So of course I followed the crowd to see if I could play too. The waiting area was a shambles, chairs knocked over and around and a guy on the floor with about 5 cops on top of him. I went to the door and told a lady with a couple little kids to hang out for a bit, not a good time. The initial officer somehow injured his shoulder so I took his place up near the head. Guy just wouldn't quit, so I went to the feet end and tried to twist one of his legs off, not sure if it was me or one of the other but he finally gave up.
A while later a Sgt came to my desk and said the commander said that if something like that happened again I was not to go out in the lobby but stay inside with the girls. Didn't even have the balls to tell me direct even though his office was 15 ft from my desk.
Of course the Sgt knew me and said he didn't expect me to do as requested.
The commander stood watching and didn't lift a finger.

[JohnR]

The commander should stay with the girls, then.

[Armybrat]

What John said.

I had a middle school principal like that 50 years ago. He hid in his office when a race riot would break out in the hallways.

[JohnR]

The more I read about this incident, the more I lose hope in the future, and I’d already lost most hope. Decent law-abiding people can’t even protect their own or other people’s kids without being thwarted by the government. You know the saying, when government fears the people, there’s liberty, when people fear the government there’s tyranny.

[340pd]

Maybe the store owner could take notes, but you can’t refuse a legal sale.

But, do we know he bought them at a store?

Yes, you can refuse a legal sale.

[JohnR]

Yes, you can refuse a legal sale.
For some reasons, but not for skin color, disability, sex, and stuff like that.

I was disgusted to see "non binary" on the 4473 last time I filled one out.