CW9 vs Glock 19

[kydave19]

Hello,

Anybody here own and shoot both?

Curious about perceived differences.

Is the size difference worth the round loss?

Does one shoot better for you than the other?

Thanks,

Dave

[yqtszhj]

Hello,

Anybody here own and shoot both?

Curious about perceived differences.

Is the size difference worth the round loss?

Does one shoot better for you than the other?

Thanks,

Dave

I have both. For real concealment and ease of carry of the cw9 the round loss is definitely worth it in my opinion. One could always carry an extra mag in a pocket. The G19 shoots a little easier due to its size but the cw9 is an easy shooter too. For carry all day I’d go with the cw9. If I was forced to go into town at night I’d have the g19 in the car and the cw9 in my waist band.

[XFlyboy]

I have a Glock 19 and a P9. The Glock wins in terms of reliability and low maintenance. The Glock is also heavier, has a longer barrel and sight radius so you will get better groupings with it. In terms of concealed carry the P9 wins hands down primarily due to its being a single stack. It's also smaller in every dimension and lighter. It is also easier to carry a spare mag with the P9 if you choose to do so. So I use my P9 for inside the waistband concealed carry and also have a P380 for true pocket carry. I don't think much about the round difference. In California you can only carry a 10 round magazine anyway so it's not that big a deal. With the Magguts springs you can get 8+1 in the CW9 with the flush mag. Another thing to consider is the trigger. The Glock has one of the best stock striker-fired triggers on the market IMHO. But it is still a stiker-fired trigger. I prefer the Kahr trigger.

Otherwise, the Glock 19 is in a class of its own. Whereas Kahr recommends you lubricate your Kahr on a monthly basis, you can toss the Glock into a drawer for 5 years, then pull it out and shoot a thousand rounds without a hickup. They like to run dry.

Finally, Kahrs are more prone to mechanical failures than Glocks. Actually, all other semi-autos are more prone to mechanical failure than Glocks, so I'm not knocking Kahrs in paticular. But along those lines, you might consider spending a couple of hundred extra bucks for a P9 vs. the CW9. The CW9 comes with a one year warranty while the P9 comes with a lifetime warranty. (Recently, I had to send my five year old P9 back to the shop due to the trigger intermittently failing to reset, and my P380 which is much more failure prone has been back to Kahr for repair four times.) The P9 is also prettier, comes with two extra mags, and has an improved slide stop and barrel. I think it is the better value in the long run.

[gedallum]

I have both. The Glock is a way better built gun than the CW9. The frame is outstanding on the G19. It is (IMHO) poorly built on the CW9. Someone used a rotary tool or equivalent on mine to get the slide and frame to mesh. Not very impressive! I will say that I have had no problems with any ammo that I have put through either gun. To me, the G19 is a way more accurate gun. I prefer the short Glock trigger. The Kahr has a very long, but very smooth trigger. Because of the long pull and the shorter grip to trigger distance, it is harder to keep the sights steady on the target. I need a lot more range time with the CW9. I do agree that the Kahr is significantly smaller and therefore easier to conceal and carry. The Kahr single stack magazine has adequate capacity if you live in California which is a 10 round limited state. It is just a size versus capacity tradeoff that you have to make. Remember these are just my opinions, others may see it totally different. Good luck!

[DavidR]

If you get along with the Kahr trigger I’d take the CW9 or P9 over the G19.

I don’t believe that the G19 is more reliable. I’ve owned a CW9 and a P9 that were reliable. Kahr is smaller and lighter so it conceals easier and is more comfortable to carry. 9 rounds with Magguts is sufficient for me.

[Scott321]

Not exactly the answer to your question... I've shot many different Glocks over the last 25 years. They are good guns... I don't own one. However, I have tried different sized pistols/revolvers for EDC. For the 'G19-20' size firearms I have, I almost always default to my Kahrs for CCW. I've tried different holsters and different carry positions, and although I have setups for the larger firearms that work OK for CCW, none have been quite as comfortable or concealable for my specific dress or daily activies as my Kahrs.

If I wasn't as concerned with CCW with my specific activities/dress, I wouldn't hesitate to carry the larger firearm(s) (in your case the G19). You can become proficient with just about any quality firearm. It just takes practice. Round count might be another consideration.

Only two things I'll mention: 1. The Kahr has a long reset and more of a surprise break. Many striker fired pistol owners hate it, but many DA revolver shooters like myself like it. Even most of the subcompact and micro alternatives to Kahr share a similar short reset/wall trigger feel to the G19 that most forums prefer. 2. The Glock has a grip angle that is slightly different than most alternatives.

[kydave19]

Thanks All!

[bugs]

I'm a glockophile at heart, but a CM9 has been my EDC for years because of its' carry flexibility; lately though with the onset of colder weather (heavier jackets) I've been considering my G19 in either a shoulder holster or a chest rig like the new de santis (expensive) over a liner, under a gore-tex type shell; zip the liner all the way up and the shell open enough to allow access from the top. I've made a shoulder rig from a couple 511 fuzzy holsters w/retentson strap and velcro pads for the CM9 recently, it seems to work, and thinking of using another fuzzy holster for the 19.a high bred belly band with a shoulder strap for support and to keep the grip tight to the chest( another working idea) might work too. maybe idle hands really are the devils workshop!

NRA LIFER

IDPA BELIEVER

[fsilber]

1. The Kahr has a long reset and more of a surprise break. Many striker fired pistol owners hate it, but many DA revolver shooters like myself like it. Even most of the subcompact and micro alternatives to Kahr share a similar short reset/wall trigger feel to the G19 that most forums prefer.

I have noticed this. I think the people who prefer the short-reset / wall trigger are foolish and ignorant, but maybe it's just me who's an old fogey. I started on revolvers in the '90s. I learned by reading people who relied heavily on revolvers in their early police careers (e.g. Massad Ayoob). So is it just old-fashioned to believe that a self-defense pistol trigger should be like that of a tuned revolver?

Massad Ayoob discouraged the use of single-action triggers for most people on service / self-defense guns. He believed it was wise when revolvers were converted to double-action only. But it seems unwise that people want their striker-fired triggers to be more like single-action triggers than like double-action triggers. Like a single-action trigger and no manual safety!

Ayoob warns about the danger of an unintentional discharge if one is surprised by a sudden noise or bumped from behind while one's finger is on the trigger. So he teachers "finger OFF the trigger" not just until one is "ready" to shoot but until one has actually DECIDED to shoot. So when the finger goes on the trigger it means you want to shoot RIGHT NOW. That means pulling the trigger the whole way through the motion as fast as can be controlled. NOT to leisurely take up the slack, reconfirm one's sight picture -- and THEN make the gun fire. I think people are preferring short-reset/wall triggers because they're easier for target shooting. But if target shooting skill is your priority -- why not buy a target pistol? (Typically a .22 rimfire ...)

Also, I've seen so many people who can't shoot decently, and it's because they're flinching right as they make the gun go off. So people need the surprise break, even if they don't realize it. You can get the surprise break two ways -- one is with a true single-action trigger that doesn't move as you increase the pressure until suddenly it gives way, and one is with a smooth double-action trigger that one just moves from front to rear and the gun goes of when it goes off. As I understand it, it was because the double-action triggers of Colt revolvers stacked but double-action triggers of Smith & Wesson pistols didn't -- that police switched from Colt to Smith & Wesson revolvers as double-action shooting replaced single-action shooting.

So to look for a striker-fired pistol whose trigger stacks (makes you break through a wall at the end of the trigger pull) is just wrong.

Or maybe I'm an old fogey, and the word now is that with good holsters and passive drop-safeties we should want our guns to be single-action only with light triggers and no manual safety -- or close to it.

[DavidR]

I prefer a shorter pull and a wall.

[BirdsThaWord]

For carry, the Kahr trigger is my fave. I also shoot them (most of them) pretty well at the range. But, I am not against a wall. I do like when I shoot my M&P, resetting the trigger, pulling quickly to that wall, finalizing my aim… allows me better accuracy than without using that wall. That’s all talk about when I am shooting for accuracy though. When it comes to drills for defensive shooting though, I do love that Kahr trigger. No wall, stack, etc feeling and just pulling off double taps “instinctive” shooting without sights. That is how I practice at home too (obviously not double taps), with the laser. That being said, I think triggers really matter for accuracy work, hence my loving the 1911, but for defensive shooting, with training, again shooting instinctively, I do not see a huge difference in groupings going from one gun to the next. Only time a see a big difference is when one has a ridiculously heavy trigger, like on a SCCY. I do however have a new respect for the DA/SA guns. You get the safety of the longer trigger pull, followed up by a lighter, shorter pull. I do see how that could help prevent negligent/accidental discharges as mentioned above. Just my opinion. I know we all feel how we feel and do what works and feels best for us individually.

[FreeMe]

Point of nit-picking...
For the record and since it was referenced in error above, Kahrs are striker fired - essentially just like Glock.

I started decades ago on DA revolvers. Because of that, my transition to Kahrs was seamless. I can hardly tell the difference between the trigger on my original K9 and my tuned S&W model 60as. I have had no experience of unreliability with Kahrs, and the three I have owned have all been accurate. Until the advent of the G43, the Kahrs have always been more concealable. I've spent time at the range with Glocks, and find nothing inherently wrong with them. I don't get along with their trigger (for personal reasons), but don't find it to be detrimental to accuracy as long as it hasn't been too long since the last time I shot one. I have no doubt that anyone who shoots Glocks most of the time should have no problem with the trigger, even though it feels strange to those of us who still spend most of our time with DA revolvers and similar feeling triggers. I've used SA hammer fired pistols and several other striker fired pistols, and frankly, I see no practical disadvantage to any of these systems related to their triggers - outside of gaming.

The question of CW9 vs G19 is a little difficult. A more logical comparison would be the P9 to the G43. Between those two, barring a previous relationship with Kahrs, I would admit the deciding factor for me would probably be price. Changing that to CW9 instead of P9 might sway the price advantage to Kahr, but I am loath to give up the quality that the C line does. Between the CW9 and the G19, my decision would require considering some priorities. The G19 has an obvious capacity advantage and a longer barrel. It could be argued that the Glock is more robust and might better survive rough treatment. The Kahr is slimmer in grip and slide, therefore more easily concealed and fits smaller hands better. Glock mags can be cheaper and more common.

Honestly, if I was deciding between the CW9 and a G19 as my only or primary pistol, I'd take the G19 simply for the magazine and accessory availability. That is - if I could live with that grip size and trigger (which I cannot). But if the choice was between the G19 and the P9 or K9, the fact that I can shoot those Kahrs more accurately weighted with the concealment advantage rules out the Glock for me, even if the trigger was not an issue. I haven't handled a G43, so can't say how that would go - but I suspect that choosing between the P9 and the G43 would be much harder for me. For someone already into the Glock family, the choice would be obvious.

TLDR, you're going to have to try both to really know which way is best for you. Or....just choose one and learn to live with it.

[FreeMe]

Regarding "the wall"....
If you're priority is training for defensive shooting, IMO you should not be concerned about that. Your trigger stroke should pull straight through without hesitation, regardless of trigger system. A good shooter will do well with any good example of SA, DA, or striker fired trigger.

[BirdsThaWord]

Regarding "the wall"....
If you're priority is training for defensive shooting, IMO you should not be concerned about that. Your trigger stroke should pull straight through without hesitation, regardless of trigger system. A good shooter will do well with any good example of SA, DA, or striker fired trigger.

Agreed! I've always admired how Hickock45 can whip out pretty much any gun and hit soda bottles or smoke some pots.

[kenemoore]

The only handgun I had ever shot before joining the Navy was my Dad's Model-10 S&W revolver. We used to shot a few rounds at cans on hot summer Sundays. Once you master the DA revolver trigger, you can shoot just about anything. Now, give me 4-5 shots to see where the POI vs POA is for me, and I can shoot pretty decent with any handgun. A lot of Glock Fan Boys hate the Kahr trigger. Most revolver guys love it. Guess that's why there are so many different makes and models. After 1911's, my 2nd favorite trigger is the CZ pistols. Kahr is 3rd.

[Scott321]

I have noticed this. I think the people who prefer the short-reset / wall trigger are foolish and ignorant, but maybe it's just me who's an old fogey. I started on revolvers in the '90s. I learned by reading people who relied heavily on revolvers in their early police careers (e.g. Massad Ayoob). So is it just old-fashioned to believe that a self-defense pistol trigger should be like that of a tuned revolver?

Just my opinion...

I think trigger pull for for heavier DA revolvers takes a lot of practice and maintenance. I can see where trainers might more efficiently teach trainees with one particular style of weapon, with one particular style of manual of arms, and one particular style of trigger. Like many things in life, skills for determining certain outcomes or goals often comes down to more than what type of trigger, or what type of sight is on a tool.

That being said, for myself, I find it easier to transition from heavy DA surprise break trigger technique to spongy take-up and a wall than the other way around. In the end, I am not a trainer, I do not take responsibility for those that agree or disagree with my opinion for victories or defeats, and figure that people have to decide for themselves and chose what works for them on an individual basis - I will do my best to adapt to what tools and situations I have at the time. A good example would be if a job had standard firearms, protocols, training, and legal backing that were considered reliable and dependable, including when trying to cite an institution that has that framework for one's own self-defense choices or strategies.

[berettabone]

I've done work to my revolver. I don't have a heavy DA pull. It feels like a Kahr trigger. I have no issues going from this to my HK with take up and a wall. I have a slight wall at the end of my revolver trigger which works well for the transition.

[Laneman]

I own both. If it's used to save your life get the Glock. If it's for plinking either one is fun.

[kydave19]

So much for the CW9... I put in the paperwork starting the CA 10 day waiting period on a new P9. Having shot DA revolvers all my life, and having had my P45 for 16 years now, I look forward to the P9 and getting to know it. Were I going out where concealment was not the biggest priority & sketchy area was, I'll probably still wear my 31 year old G19 with an extra 15 rounder on the side. But for going to the store or out in the evening, I'm thinking the slight size difference and slight round increase might make the P9 worth leaving behind my trusty .45ACP rounds. We'll see.

BTW, I was pissed and disappointed that my P9 has that stupid grip serial number plate. I special ordered it from Sportsman's Warehouse & neither their site photos, nor Kahr's P9 photos informed me of the change in position from the Glock style serial number location that my old P45 has.

Argghhhh.... tacky, tacky, tacky!!!

[kydave19]

Picked up the P9 today. Sharpie'd the tacky serial number plate. Hitting the range tomorrow. Report upcoming. Photos as soon as I'm allowed.

[kydave19]

It goes bang when I want it to. Makes holes in the direction I aim it. Shoots multiple shots on multiple steel plates without a hiccup. Even shoots a few lead reloads during the breakin period (although mostly shooting FMJ for now. What's not to like? A few more getting used to it range trips and I'll set up an appointment for qualification shooting & adding it to my CCW with it's big brother P45.

Photos to come... one of these days.

[kydave19]

I added this Hogue sleeve. It gives just a little bit of welcome girth to the grip and has the side benefit of covering the ugly serial # plate! The more I shoot it, the more I'm liking this little gun!! It's going on the CCW permit as soon as I jump through the hoops.

19545

[yqtszhj]

I added this Hogue sleeve. It gives just a little bit of welcome girth to the grip and has the side benefit of covering the ugly serial # plate! The more I shoot it, the more I'm liking this little gun!! It's going on the CCW permit as soon as I jump through the hoops.

19545

those grip sleeves are nice. I have one on my cm9.