PM9 - Failure to feeds developed at 1,500 rounds or so

[tnedator]

Ok, my PM9 has been pretty much flawless. The last two times out to the range, I have had one failure to feed each time out (Speer Lawman 115gr FMJ). The first time I thought it was the slide locked back, thinking I had hit it with my thumb, now I am wondering if that was the case.

Today, it was definately the bullet kind of nosed down into the feedramp, just like you get if you try and slingshot and it doesn't work. I believe it was after firing one shot, so there was six in the magazine (6 round magazine).

The gun had been cleaned and lubed after shooting the previous week. After that failure to feed, I went on to shoot 250 rounds after the failure to feed without another problem.

I haven't kept an exact round count, but I'm guessing I am somewhere between 1,500 and 2,000 rounds, have haven't changed the recoil spring yet. I've been meaning to order some for a while, and hadn't gotten around to it.

Anyway, I have ordered a new recoil spring, but am wondering if you guys think this sounds like something a worn out/fatigued recoil spring would cause or if there is likely a different problem.

[Bawanna]

To me it's hard to say but the recoil spring would be the first thing I replaced at this point. Strange just one failure and then many rounds without a problem.
Feed ramp is still looking good?

[unclenunzie]

most likely the outer recoil spring. Mine benefited from one after about 1100-1200 rounds.

[bayoutrigger]

After 1000 rounds I would replace the recoil spring and mag release spring (actually a metal pin). The mag release spring effects how high the mag is held thus effecting feeding of bullets. Also, make sure you have a mag you only use for carry. You don't want magazine spring fatigue to show up as you align your front sight on the center upper body mass of a bad guy and attempt to squeeze off your second shot. In fact, I usually change out all springs in my Kahr's after break-in and periodically. Over-kill? Well, if I ever have to pull my gun on somebody, my life at that point will depend on the reliability of my firearm. A FTF doesn't know if you are at the range or in a parking lot with a gun pointed at you. Why take a chance over some relatively cheap gun parts?

[jlottmc]

I need one for the 45, just a recoil spring. Wolf's doesn't have them, I may have to order one from Kahr, just wish they had a stiffer one though.

[tnedator]

To me it's hard to say but the recoil spring would be the first thing I replaced at this point. Strange just one failure and then many rounds without a problem.
Feed ramp is still looking good?

I ordered some springs and hopefully that fixes it.

The feed ramp looks fine to me. What's the method for polishing it up if the problem persists?

[Seahawk60]

After 1000 rounds I would replace the recoil spring and mag release spring (actually a metal pin). The mag release spring effects how high the mag is held thus effecting feeding of bullets.


Tell me EXACTLY how that spring affects the position of how high the magazine locks into the mag well.

And, how the fit of the magazine release as it actually fits through the holes on either side of the grip/frame has NO bearing on this, instead.

If the mag release spring controls the "ride height" of the magazine, then why isn't this an issue with Glocks, which use the exact same mag release/spring design, as opposed to a coil spring design as with the 1911? :2rolleyes:

[Bawanna]

I concur Seahawk60. The mag release spring can't possibly have any effect on the follower height. No way, no how that I can possibly see. I'm sure ready to learn and be corrected but I don't buy it.
A magazine spring that was beyond weak could have a negative impact on the feed but in this scenario that would be a second or third thing to check.
Easy to check too, just try another mag.
tnedator, I just use real fine sandpaper, like 800 up to like 1200 on a dowel and just polish by hand. I finish up with a dremel and cotton wheel with rouge or flitz whatever I can find.
Remember sparks equal grinding, not good. Don't want to change anything or remove any metal just polish.
Your probably fine since this recently developed after alot of rounds.

[jocko]

mag release spring, only effect the mag release, nothing more, but if one feels good about changing it, do it. That spring will never wear out. Not that you can't get one weaker than the other but it just won't wear

[OldLincoln]

As for the recoil spring..... my 1911 did the exact same thing with HSTs and a new recoil spring made it run smooth.

If the feed ramp is shiny and slick it's OK. I polished mine because my PM9 didn't like HSTs. Used Dremmel like tool with normal polishing compound and followed up lightly with Mothers Wheel Polish. I also put a tiny bit of TW25 grease on it and rub it in when cleaning. Also did same to chamber entrance all the way around. Cartridges seem to bounce off the ramp and hit the top inside of the chamber before settling down inside. Smooth is good.

Can't tell you exactly what did it, but the gun like HST now.

[Seahawk60]

Don't know if it's been mentioned already, but don't forget Kahr has a new recoil spring/guide rod for the PM9. The rear button that goes up against the front of the barrel lug is noticeably larger and the spring(s) are MUCH stiffer. So much so that I couldn't lock my PM9 back by hand until they took a set after about 100 rounds and leaving it locked back after firing the last round for a few days. It did lock back on an empty mag when actually firing every time. I'll bet Kahr came up with a stronger spring(s) to help with the slingshotting issue. Kahr sent me two new updated spring/recoil assemblies for free after asking via email.

[deadhead1971]

I replaced my outter recoil spring at 1,400 after a jam.

[jocko]

not sure about the recoil springs strength being changed . I do know they went from a 3/8" flat end on the guide rod to 1/2" for some reason. that has been a few years back, but I have never seen a poundage spring change by kahr. Wolffs has shown the 18# factory spring for the pM9 way before kahr ever changed to the 1/2" flange on the end of the guide rod....

[kpm9]

Kahr recommends a recoil spring change after about 500 rounds. I changed mine right about 1500 rounds and haven't had a single issue through 2300+ rounds.

[jocko]

Kahr recommends a recoil spring change after about 500 rounds. I changed mine right about 1500 rounds and haven't had a single issue through 2300+ rounds.

where did that statment come from. Never heard of any statement coming out of kahr less than 1500 rounds. recoil springs are cheap to replace so it is really ones decision. I personally feel 500 rounds is way way to early, but again they are cheap in cost to.

[kpm9]

where did that statment come from. Never heard of any statement coming out of kahr less than 1500 rounds. recoil springs are cheap to replace so it is really ones decision. I personally feel 500 rounds is way way to early, but again they are cheap in cost to.

My bad, I meant 1500 rounds. It was a recommendation from Kahr when I bought the new spring. This might have changed too, but I though I saw a recommendation from a Kahr manual.

I might be thinking about Sig though.
:o

[jocko]

sounds right to me. Rohrbaugh recommends changing their R9 springs every 200 rounds and they mean it to..

[Seahawk60]

not sure about the recoil springs strength being changed . I do know they went from a 3/8" flat end on the guide rod to 1/2" for some reason. that has been a few years back, but I have never seen a poundage spring change by kahr. Wolffs has shown the 18# factory spring for the pM9 way before kahr ever changed to the 1/2" flange on the end of the guide rod....

They're definitely different. Either stronger or longer...maybe both. My made-in-2004 PM9 came with the guide rode with the smaller button and both springs were silver. I was able to lock the slide back by hand from day one. Not so with the two new guide rod/spring assemblies. They definitely need a break in via firing and/or leaving the slide locked back for a few days before it is in anyway easy to lock the slide.

Another difference is the outer spring will not just fall off the guide rod, as my old one did. It takes some force (twisting) to get it off. This was a good move by Kahr because it makes it much harder for someone to accidentally get that spring on backwards because, as we all know, it is supposed to only go on ONE way. Failure to do so could cause the entire pistol to lock up hard if the "open end" of the spring is placed up against the flange of the outer guide rod piston instead of inside the area in the front underside of the slide. It was important enough for Kahr to actually include that in my 2004 owner's manual. I've also read reports of people jamming up their pistols because they put the spring on backward and the "open end" coils jumped over the back of the outer part of the guide rod. Other than replacement, there's no reason to take the outer spring off the guide rod anyway.

Anyway, Kahr told me they were using stronger springs when I asked about the "redesign" and before I got the first one they sent.

[JD Cowles]

hmm, i'm in the same boat perhaps. i went to the range last night to put another 100 rounds through my PM9 (had about 850 already with no problems) and had a half dozen fail to feeds. there was a new mag so i thought maybe there was something to it but it did it with my other two (all 6rd) as well. is it possible i burned through a recoil spring at 850-900 rounds? i felt 'off' all night so it could have been my technique but it's freaking me out to have such a reliable pistol get weird on me.

thanks all-
JD

[jocko]

shouldn't be the recoil springs either but I would callkahr and talk to Jay or Eion and tell them what is going on and maybe they will send you a new recoil assembly to try out. Try it again to see if it does it when your feeling better about shooting to and maybe have a shooter friend there also to see if he can duplicate your issues.Probably not u either but you need to eliminate the possables before getting to excited.


Give that a try first

[JD Cowles]

thanks jocko, i am a bit OCD and already spoke w Ian? at Kahr and a new recoil spring assembly is on it's way. meantime, i cleaned the snot out of 'er and will polish the feed ramp some tonight before banging a few rounds through tomorrow. fingers crossed i was tired and out of whack. either way i'll be back on here celebrating or crying into my empty magazines...

JD

[Lobo_79]

...I haven't kept an exact round count, but I'm guessing I am somewhere between 1,500 and 2,000 rounds, have haven't changed the recoil spring yet...

Like others have already commented the most likely culprit is the recoil spring. I replaced just the outer spring and it cured my problem. Others might replace the entire guide rod and both springs but I think it's just the outer spring that takes the brunt of work.

Kahr doesn't seem to publish a service interval for spring replacement but if you root around in the KahrTech section you'll find enough useful information to make you feel guilty...LOL. The consensus seems to be somewhere around 1250 - 1500 rounds for a recoil spring. That's the easy part; the bigger challenge is keep track.

[jocko]

Ihave my ammo in stack of 1000 rounds, andI am able to keep alot better track of rounds down range that way.l Not to important as we think for recoil changes. Normally the gun will give you some indication that it might be time for a change. Certainly IMO when in doubt change um. Most issues in a gun rre recoil spring related and magazine related. Get those two purrng right together and your gun should go bang every time.

[JD Cowles]

Put about 75 rounds through the old girl on Sat am and am proud to report the only fail to feed was after shooting my Glock for an hour (the first round out of the PM9 kinda surprised me and was 124gr carry ammo). That one was my fault. After that, 6+1 twice through each of 3 mags and no problems. I am happy that Ian @ Kahr has a new recoil spring assembly on its way as i will wear this one at sooner than later :53: