A Hypothetical Question

[Dietrich]

I know that all the members of this forum are basically upright,law abiding citizens and the real backbone of this great nation but a thought popped into what`s left of my mind.
If your state required paperwork and you had the opportunity to obtain a firearm [handgun or long gun] without any paperwork,would you go for it? Let`s go further and say that you know for a fact that it`s not stolen because you were with the seller when he bought it at the gun store four years ago.Tempting,huh?
Now some of you have noticed that I`m from the South.Born and bred.I`m so Southern I sometimes think I even type with an accent. Anyway,this used to be a common practice down here in Dogpatch and we didn`t think it was any of the government`s business what we did with our guns.We`re still opposed to governmental intervention into our lives to this day but I fear we are a dying breed. But back to the question. This forum reaches out across a wide section of Americans and I just wanted to know,hypotheticaly of course,would you do it?

[packinaglock]

In Florida there is no paper work required for private sellers. Also in 47 years I have never spent a night in jail. So yes I'm law abiding, I did get a underage drinking ticket once when I was 17.

[500KV]

Over the years I've bought (and sold) / traded a lot of guns, some from people I knew, some from people I didn't know.
Heck, that was a common thing. No paperwork, just a handshake. I doubt this was only a *southern* thing though.
Remember when you could just order one through the mail ?
Finally got rid of most of my "junk" so I haven't sold any lately.
I have bought some recently and have had them run through NCIC to check for stolen, etc.
So far, so good.

[Dietrich]

Over the years I've bought (and sold) / traded a lot of guns, some from people I knew, some from people I didn't know.
Heck, that was a common thing. No paperwork, just a handshake. I doubt this was only a *southern* thing though.
Remember when you could just order one through the mail ?
Finally got rid of most of my "junk" so I haven't sold any lately.
I have bought some recently and have had them run through NCIC to check for stolen, etc.
So far, so good.
I guess I shouldn`t have been so vague. When I wrote that it used to be a common practice down here I should have said like the day before yesterday.Oops.

[Bigcube]

In NY you would lose your permit for that. Every handgun you own is on your permit. On the back or separate piece of paper it lists make, model, cal and serial number. It's been that way over the 15+ years I've had a NY permit.

[ltxi]

Private sales aren't regulated in Colorado, either. No paperwork required and as recently as two - three months ago I sold an old Mossberg shotgun and an early, original Charter Arms Undercover to a friend. The Charter Arms was one I had picked up in a private sale about 12 years ago...I have another one and he wanted it. Used to do a fair amount of paperless, private trading at gun shows in the past, before the state required FFL transfers there. So to answer your question, Dietrich, sure, of course I would and it's still perfectly legal here.

500KV -- "Remember when you could just order one through the mail ?" Oh, yeah...and I did.

[500KV]

In NY you would lose your permit for that. Every handgun you own is on your permit. On the back or separate piece of paper it lists make, model, cal and serial number. It's been that way over the 15+ years I've had a NY permit.

That, to me, is downright scary.
I really didn't know such requirements existed, at least in this country.
We'll probably see more of it in the future though.

[Dogman]

No paperwork required in Indiana for private sales.

[ltxi]

Just reread your original post. I didn't answer your question. If my state required paperwork would I do it anyway? Depends on the state and/or jurisdiction (and to some degree the gun)....some can be draconian....others wouldn't really notice or don't care quite as much. There's also sometimes a way around it. I have two handguns on semi-permanent loan to two family members who live in a state that requires transfer paper, even for gifts within the family.....but permits simply loaning someone a gun, any gun, if they have a carry permit.

[Cornhusker]

No paperwork requirement on private sale in Nebraska.

[bayoutrigger]

Herein lies a fundamental question about our American freedoms and government intrusion.

Lets take your hypothetical a step further. What happens if you are dealing with a friend. A person you know and trust. For this reason you do not hesitate to purchase a firearm from them without the required paperwork. However, it turns out that they are working for the government and turn you in.

That's how it worked in the Soviet Union and N***i Germany. Are we heading that way as a country? Sure looks like it to me.

At least here in Louisiana the "good ole boy's" seem to out number those who would sympathize with the government control bunch.

[Dozer]

No paperwork necessary in New Mexico. I have bought several through private sellers, but I always got some kind of identification from them, and visa versa. It seems to relax the seller and buyer in most cases. Would I buy without paperwork if it was required? I don't think so. I don't think I would want the added attention something like that would generate if discovered.

[zena]

Here in MA, we are required to do paperwork for private sales AND are only allowed to sell 4 in one year. Hypothetically, I've been attracted to the idea of a paperless gun, one I can keep buried in the back yard for the ultimate emergency. You know, after they've come to take all the guns they know about. Or for a rainy day.:rain:

[500KV]

Out of curiosity, what about guns that you owned prior to the current *paper trail* requirements.
Did they have to be declared when these laws went into effect ?
If not, how would they know (if you bought an unregistered gun from an individual) when you took ownership ?

[Dietrich]

Out of curiosity, what about guns that you owned prior to the current *paper trail* requirements.
Did they have to be declared when these laws went into effect ?
If not, how would they know (if you bought an unregistered gun from an individual) when you took ownership ?
That`s the odd part. In N.C. the only way to legally buy a pistol is for the buyer to have either a pistol permit issued by the sheriff of his or her home county or a CHL.If you buy from an individual there is a bill of sale exchanged beteen both parties containing the pertinent information.The seller retains the permit if the buyer doesn`t have a CHL and then that`s the end of it.No forwarding of information to the authorities.No registration of the firearm.I received a letter once from the former sheriff of my county asking me to register my firearms and it quickly found its` way into the shredder.Like I said, it`s a hypothetical question. I would never do something that wasn`t approved by my beloved government officials.

[Pender1]

This is why I enjoy being from South Carolina. We have absolutely no requirements on private sales. I bought my Kahr second hand and all I did was give the guy my name and phone number, and that's all I got from him.

[500KV]

The reason I asked; In our state there's no paperwork required for a private sale.
So if the law did change and a private sale then took place, how would they know when a person actually bought the gun (before or after) Unless one of the parties informed them ?
Questions..Questions..

ETA- That's the way our laws are here Pender1. In fact I don't even do the tel.# thing.

[Pender1]

ETA- That's the way our laws are here Pender1. In fact I don't even do the tel.# thing.

Normally I don't, but I bought the gun from a LEO and he wanted some way to find me if SHTF.

[Cappy]

Would I? Could I? Should I? I know we are all friends here, but I feel some things never get put in print (BG). :59: You know what I am not sure what I would do under those circumstances. Shoot think they will notice the M1 Abrams under that tarp in the back yard? :80:

[MisterAnderson]

Would I knowingly violate laws requiring documentation/paperwork for a firearms transfer? No.

Thankfully, the great state of Missouri and it hired legislators has seen fit to eliminate the PTA, and require no paperwork for intrastate, private transfers. I have purchased all firearms legally and, in accordance with state law, very few of my firearms are 'on the books'.:angel:

[Kahrdog]

Something to think about:

http://http://www.mouseguns.com/no.htm

[bayoutrigger]

Bad link. Try again.

[johnh]

The end of paperwork in Missouri was a welcome thing. We had that requirement only for handguns, but it made such transactions needlessly complicated between individuals. I cannot say I do much local trading, but it did make a couple such deals much simpler.

Did I follow the requirement before? Absolutely! I would not put at risk what rights I have left.

John

[Kahrdog]

Sorry about that link. I would never advocate breaking any laws, but...
Hope this works: Just Say No! Chuck Hawks (http://www.mouseguns.com/no.htm)

[Dietrich]

Sorry about that link. I would never advocate breaking any laws, but...
Hope this works: Just Say No! Chuck Hawks (http://www.mouseguns.com/no.htm)

Thank you Kahrdog.This thread was written sort of tongue in cheek but Mr.Hawks nails it. I don`t advocate breaking the law either but I hope that people open their eyes to what`s happening around them.It seems that elected officials no longer seek to serve the people,they seek to control them.

[bumpfire]

Us that are in unregulated free states should be afraid of S. 843 by Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ). He is trying to close the so called gunshow loophole.
I like Chuck Hawks position.

[500KV]

Totally agree with Dietrich and bumpfire's assessment of the wisdom of Chuck Hawks statements.
I found this on the NRA website regarding S.843.
Hopefully It'll wind up like the rest of his bills.

This is their take on one of the provisions.

Gun collector registration: If you are at home with a collection of 50 or more firearms, it would be a five-year felony to “offer” or “exchange” a single gun -- even between family or friends -- unless you first registered with the BATFE and paid a fee, the cost of which would be at BATFE’s discretion.

[tv_racin_fan]

While I am generally a law abiding citizen and it isn't YET against the law to aquire a firearm without paperwork. IF it became against the law to do so I would somehow aquire one sans paperwork.