Problems with P380

[taseal]

Got a P380 about 2 weeks ago... great feeling pistol, however I can't shoot this thing for ****. Perhaps I got a lemon, I have no idea...

1st time I shot it, it was pretty bad, then I went home and cleaned it very thorough, and oiled it per instructions here with CLP. took it back to the range... same thing, except not as bad this time. it has total 200 rounds trough it (PMC, bellot, Blazer) and it doesnt like any of them. I'm also getting alot of light strikes. the channel has been de-gunked as well...

please help me :(

I have also dry cycled this thign with and without bullets couple hundred times as well...

here is a video I made to better explain the situation and the possible cause of it. I have tried both magazines...

YouTube - Kahr P380 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV_9sRTmKn8)

[Bawanna]

Kahr recommends loading from slide lock. Lock the slide back, insert the magazine, hit the slide stop lever to release the slide. This usually fixes the first round not feeding. Later when things are running smoother you may be able to sling shot by pulling the slide back and letting it go. Your not gonna have much luck easing the slide down as you do in your video.
In a couple shots like right at first it looks like it's not picking up the first round, that might be the stripper on the slide hitting on top of the case instead of behind it, I've not heard of that on the 380 but some of the others have that. Easy to bevel the front just a bit to get behind the case.
I don't do audio so I"m just looking at your pictures.
Whats it doing after the first round, not going into battery alot or jamming, stove pipes.
You need a good solid grip, they don't like limp wristing at all.

[gb6491]

Hi,
I don't have a P380 myself, but have read quite a few posts about them; so please take the following with that in mind:
Two threads to start with:
http://kahrtalk.com/kahr-tech/1521-proper-prep-new-kahr.html
http://kahrtalk.com/kahr-tech/308-kahr-lube-diagram.html
If those don't produce any improvement, take a look at post #4 in this thread:http://kahrtalk.com/p-cw-series-pistols/1843-p380-ftrtb.html
If there is still no joy, I'd contact Customer Service.
Regards,
Greg
One other thing, give the mags a quick dis-assembly and verify that the springs are installed correctly (wouldn't be the first time I've springs cause nose dive problems).

[taseal]

Kahr recommends loading from slide lock. Lock the slide back, insert the magazine, hit the slide stop lever to release the slide. This usually fixes the first round not feeding. Later when things are running smoother you may be able to sling shot by pulling the slide back and letting it go. Your not gonna have much luck easing the slide down as you do in your video.
In a couple shots like right at first it looks like it's not picking up the first round, that might be the stripper on the slide hitting on top of the case instead of behind it, I've not heard of that on the 380 but some of the others have that. Easy to bevel the front just a bit to get behind the case.
I don't do audio so I"m just looking at your pictures.
Whats it doing after the first round, not going into battery alot or jamming, stove pipes.
You need a good solid grip, they don't like limp wristing at all.

I know what you mean about the limp wristing... when I shoot with 1 hand, I don't get this problem. or if I stiffen up my wrist, i dont get it either.... a natural grip like how I shoot my duty MP9 causes constant jams.

tell me about how to prevent limp wristing. do I grip the pistol grip harder? do I stiffen up my wrist? my whole arm? What's going on? I just feel not so 'natural' when I shoot this thing

I never thought it'd be so hard to shoot a pistol.

I'm not new to weapons. I'm a DM in the army, and have extensive experience with anything from a M2 to a 9mm so...

[Bawanna]

First I'd follow Gregs advice to make sure things are right. I'd add to read the manual a couple times. This sounds kind of dumb and I know I rarely read a manual, it's unmanly and I know guns. Well guess what, I learned several things reading the manual that were kind of user specific for Kahrs. Like the loading from slide lock. I've never done that with any other gun, never been part of a training scenario, it's always sling shot. After awhile you will be able to sling shot without trouble but when new and tight, using the slide lock usually fixes that problem straight away.

If your shooting fine with one hand and having problems with a two hand hold that tells me the guns ok and theres something off with your technique.

These guns are small and everything has to happen in a small area for lack of a better way to describe it. I guess your correct in saying to keep your wrist and arm stiff so the recoil cycle of the gun has something solid to hit up against.
I'm certainly not questioning your experience or technique. What your experiencing is not uncommon.
I'd follow the steps Greg mentioned, try it some more, maybe even have someone else give it a try to as Jocko always says eliminate the possibles.

[WMD]

Ditto Bawanna's comments. Read the manual. :D

The Kahr pistols are not your ordinary steel or large frame gun. When you shrink the guns (especially in larger calibers), the rules change. I am a 1911 shooter. Took me a little while to get used to my PM9. You do not need a death grip on the gun (unless it is a PM40;) ) but you do need to hold in to the recoil. Even a P380. The MP9 is a much larger and heavier gun so is not as sensitive to recoil.

Do not give up on it yet. it is a great little gun which you will come to love.

Hope this helps.

[Bawanna]

WMD, I got one question for you! Where have you been? I've missed you terribly.

[jocko]

at least bawanna TASEAL has admitted to one fault that 99% of most shooters would never admit to. LIMPWRISTING; a small gun is very easy to do. He knows that from his comments, so for me, he will solve his grip position with ease.

[OldLincoln]

He has more than that going for him. He has worked this thing hard eliminating one thing after another. I believe he will beat the malfunctions and work this puppy into a fine shooting machine.

Jocko, good to see your post!

[taseal]

I got an email back from Lahr about the video, and theynpretty ,ouch said Lahr is nit designed to be slide racked. Well that sucks because I'm a lefty so I don't use the slide release too often...

That however did not answer my light striker or ftrb problem... I I'll get a video of me shooting too of the slide not going all the way back...

[wyntrout]

I think the big difference is the lightness of the Kahrs. Larger and heavier guns have more mass and the slide moves back with enough force as the frame stays still a bit more. But the Kahr's being lighter, recoil more easily and absorb too much of the slide's rearward motion needed to fully cycle it. You have to work harder to hold the frame against the recoil so the slide can fully cycle.
Wynn

[taseal]

Lcp is a lighter pistol, why doesn't this problem exist on that pistol then?

[jocko]

Lcp is a lighter pistol, why doesn't this problem exist on that pistol then?


ergonomics

[zebraD]

Also Kahr has an offset feed ramp. Not sure if the LCP has an offset ramp or not, but I'm guessing it dosen't. A short centered feed ramp ( like a 1911 ) allows you to hand rack, but when it is sitting off to the left ( like the Kahr ) the same rules don't apply.

[WMD]

WMD, I got one question for you! Where have you been? I've missed you terribly.


Man..... work is killing me... It is truly interfering with my social life! :D

However..... I am still around and kicking!

BTW, love the big dot on my PM9. It took me a bit to get used to the sights. And.... quite honestly, I was not sure I was going to like them but...., after a bunch of rounds, I am putting the holes where they belong. part of the issue is I shoot for accuracy (one hole). The big dot is not a sight to use for accuracy. I went to a tactical shooting class and was quite impressed with my shooting performance with the big dot sight. The kill zone was hit by "every" round even while shooting while moving in all directions. In a self defense scenario, you are not looking to put all bullets in one hole, you are looking for shot placement in a "zone" that will stop the fight.

The Big dot fulfills that role quite nicely with the benefit of quick target acquisition. Didn't mean to change the thread but just wanted to give you a quick status on my Big Dot experience.

[WMD]

Lcp is a lighter pistol, why doesn't this problem exist on that pistol then?

Comparing the Kahr and LCP is like comparing apples and oranges. The designs are quite different between the guns. The weight difference is .5 oz. Not enough to worry about. If you have shot an LCP, you will have noticed one big difference. The LCP has significant more recoil then the Kahr. My guess is you will grip the LCP firmer as a result.

I watched your video and agree that hand racking and riding the slide is a big part of the feed issue. As a suggestion, you may want to invest in some dummy rounds if you are going to continue demonstrations in your kitchen. I would hate to see a bullet hole in that nice toaster! :D

Another suggestion.... when you have a gun not in battery, do not slap the back of the slide. If you have your finger on the trigger, you could lose a finger or chunk of your hand should the gun go off. An alternative is to slap the bottom of the grip with the palm of your free hand. Most cases, that "jarring" of the pistol will cause the slide to return to battery.

Use the slide lock to load the chamber then shoot the gun. If it continues to not return to battery, let Kahr CS know. They will take care of you.

[taseal]

Got it!

I talked to kahr and they reccoomended winch wwb or umc ammo. I'm gonna get some and see how they feel and feed in the pistol. Hopefully thall fix the light striker problem too. Ill get a video of that too...

I understand why the hand racking doesn't work now as well

[Bawanna]

I really liked the toaster too. Nice unit.

[taseal]

Does 4 toasts at a time :D

[Captain_Cupcake]

Snap!

[taseal]

Ok guys,

came back from the range. Got some Remington UMC JHP ammo as that's what Kahr said they use in the P380 for testing. Well... Went to the range and the pistol performed flawlessly!!!! I shot 66 more rounds today, and I got 1 light strike, 2 FTEs and that was it! I'm very happy now. I'm still not as accurate as I would like to be with this pistol, but at 25 yards I can hit a normal letter size paper in the center pretty good. I'd say 2-3 inch grouping at 15 yards for now.... I think it's the sights, I'm not a fan of these sights, and I'm used to the 3 dot style... so I might get the trijicon night sights, or maybe get that XS Big dot since that would serve it's purpose pretty well for this pistol...

overall, I'm very happy with this pistol now that I figured the problem out, I know it wasn't my limp wristing this thing, it was some ****** ammo....

I took a picture of the previous ammo I was using, and I want you guys to look at the cartridge's rim. If you look closely, it actually has a diff style rim, and the catridge itself is actually a tiny bit shorter. I'm assuming since this pistol is picky to begin with, that's why this thing wasn't feeding properly and since it's a bit shorter, that explains the primer not going off either...

One on the left is the Lelliot 92gr. Right side is Remington UMC JHP 88gr

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/5261/received01.jpg

[jocko]

good for you, there certainly is a difference in the rim casings. can't see why that should be an issue but just stay away from that brand.. Personally trying to shoot at 25 yards is IMO about 15 yards out of that 380's design. It is a close up personal defense gun, practice 10 yards and under, get good at this distance and closer. At this range sights are kinda irrelevant to. this is a dandy POA gun, you should see the front sight clearly and the rest will fallin place.

Put some more rounds down range and hopefully the light strikes will dissppear as will the fte's. Nice report..

[taseal]

Yeah with a pistol this size that is a distance but I still wanna know I can take that shot if I want to. Most my training will be around 7-10 yards with this pistol. And some close up ones..

Great lil pistol now that it feeds right

[OldLincoln]

Music to my ears!!

[TominCA]

I have the same problem - I believe that the cartridge is not moving up the breech face smoothly enough - perhaps there is interference from the extractor. It's not limp wristing because the pistol (at least mine) will do it on the first load, in a clean pistol, with the slide release loading the round, with 5 brands of ammo 3 USA and 2 Foreign. I talked to Kahr and they pretty much just said "shoot it some more" and "Don't use foreign ammo" but didn't seem to have any insight into the problem - at least on the telephone.