Is civility dead?

[Dietrich]

Today I was having lunch in a fast food restaurant.I was alone and I decided to try an experiment.I don`t usually eavesdrop on other people`s conversations but I made an exception for the experiment`s sake.I was appalled to hear the curse words that folks were using in public.I mean all kinds of folks and all races and sexes were casually flinging the "F" word and more about with not so much as a "Pardon my French" to be heard.
Now,I`ve worked in construction most of my life so cuss words are nothing new to me and even as wonderful as I am,I have been known to let them fly under certain stressful times.For instance,let`s say that I accidently drop a cinderblock on my foot.The Lord`s Prayer is not what comes out of my mouth.However,I do not use profanity in my normal everyday conversation and especially not in a public place.But the people in this eatery didn`t act like it gave them any pause at all.I was raised to be respectful of others and to conduct myself in a way that would reflect the way my parents raised me.Aren`t people being taught any manners nowadays? I balk at using bad language in front of a lady but some of the "ladies" were spewing it out right along with the menfolk.Is my way of thinking a thing of the past? Is civility dead?

[ripley16]

Young people in particular have increasingly normalized foul language. I blame the increase on the constant barrage of it they hear in music, movies and media.

[OldLincoln]

Unfortunately, I think civility has a modernized definition like most else that was good 30 years ago. People today don't weigh their words in any meaningful way. The profanity we came across decades ago caused a stir because they were rare and used for the shock value. Now the vilest of the words don't have any shock value or meaning. You can look at many, many words that carried weight then and today they are used perhaps without even knowing what they mean.

And English as a language is going the way of Latin. I was taught to diagram sentences, never end with a preposition, whom was a real word with specific meaning. Now anything goes as long as the reader can figure it out. I understand the texting shorthand was originally to cram more into the allotted space, but now it is used everywhere.

I about freaked out when my DIL who has a masters and teaches school, didn't understand what I meant when discussing ending a sentence with a preposition. I had to give her a couple examples until she understood but just shrugged her shoulders looking at me like I should go trim the wicks.

Sigh.... gotta quit now or I may get carried away.

[dusty10]

Yes, civility is dead. At least by the definition we over fifty guys use.

[MikeyKahr]

What's this civility you speak of? :p

[OldLincoln]

What's this civility you speak of? :p

Could you possibly mean "What is this civility of which you speak"?

Or is it "wht civility u spk of."

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[dusty10]

So, now we have grammer police? :D

[OldLincoln]

There is that better??:) No not a cop of any kind, just funnin from the follow to my earlier post.:)

[dusty10]

That's Ok Lincoln. Every forum has one. On this here forum, it may as well be you. :) Now, back to Kahr talk. Where were we? Oh yah, folks not mindin' their manners.

[rholmes69]

With the slow and ever growing absence of churches and God in people's life, so goes their morality and values. You use to never mention sex or drinking or drugs in front of kids, now we have to tell them as early as possible so they can know what to look out for. While I am a religious man, I don't ever cram it down anyone's throat. As I have always understood it, it is the church and God's job to propose, but never impose. If people would just take time to learn about our forefathers and study the example of the culture of those who lived during the 30's-early 60's, they could really find a great way to model their lives. No we have such skewed views of right and wrong, it seems everyone's goal is to make sure they get theirs and that they make no exceptions or detours in order to live their life as they see fit.

It's getting old and really making me sick...

[MikeyKahr]

Could you possibly mean "What is this civility of which you speak"?

Or is it "wht civility u spk of."

No, thy phrase be not what I meanteth to speaketh as if it wast what I meanteth, then that wouldst be what I wouldst hath spokeneth! :target: It's getting Elizabethan in here! In case you missed it I did throw in a :p for good measure to make sure you knew my "of ending" was purposeful.

As for your comments on civility, I totally agree. But I'm not so sure that we should expect any better than what we have with the youth (generally speaking). These things are not taught in the home, nor in the school nor through most media these days, so where would they pick it up from!?

P.S. It should be "What is this civility of which you speak?" instead of "What is this civility of which you speak"? if we want to get real technical!! You know how many funny looks you would get is you spoke like that to middle-school or high-school children?

[reverend1]

Unfortunately, I think civility has a modernized definition like most else that was good 30 years ago. People today don't weigh their words in any meaningful way. The profanity we came across decades ago caused a stir because they were rare and used for the shock value. Now the vilest of the words don't have any shock value or meaning. You can look at many, many words that carried weight then and today they are used perhaps without even knowing what they mean.

And English as a language is going the way of Latin. I was taught to diagram sentences, never end with a preposition, whom was a real word with specific meaning. Now anything goes as long as the reader can figure it out. I understand the texting shorthand was originally to cram more into the allotted space, but now it is used everywhere.

I about freaked out when my DIL who has a masters and teaches school, didn't understand what I meant when discussing ending a sentence with a preposition. I had to give her a couple examples until she understood but just shrugged her shoulders looking at me like I should go trim the wicks.

Sigh.... gotta quit now or I may get carried away.

It's not incorrect to end a sentence with a preposition, is it.
:)

[Mudinyeri]

That would be a question, not a sentence, reverend. :D

Civility begins in the home and spreads to the community at large. Funny how that works, huh?

One of my other hobbies is off roading. Generally, it's a pretty rough crew. However, most of the guys I wheel with who know me fairly well curtail their foul language when around me. I'd like to think my civility is rubbing off on them ... at least for a few hours on a weekend.

[O'Dell]

Today I was having lunch in a fast food restaurant.I was alone and I decided to try an experiment.I don`t usually eavesdrop on other people`s conversations but I made an exception for the experiment`s sake.I was appalled to hear the curse words that folks were using in public.I mean all kinds of folks and all races and sexes were casually flinging the "F" word and more about with not so much as a "Pardon my French" to be heard.
Now,I`ve worked in construction most of my life so cuss words are nothing new to me and even as wonderful as I am,I have been known to let them fly under certain stressful times.For instance,let`s say that I accidently drop a cinderblock on my foot.The Lord`s Prayer is not what comes out of my mouth.However,I do not use profanity in my normal everyday conversation and especially not in a public place.But the people in this eatery didn`t act like it gave them any pause at all.I was raised to be respectful of others and to conduct myself in a way that would reflect the way my parents raised me.Aren`t people being taught any manners nowadays? I balk at using bad language in front of a lady but some of the "ladies" were spewing it out right along with the menfolk.Is my way of thinking a thing of the past? Is civility dead?

I'm with you 100%, and yes, it's dead. I haven't gone to a movie theater or rented a movie in 15 or 20 years for this very reason. Television is getting just about as bad, so I seldom turn on the big screen. I spent twelve years in the Navy, so I have heard just about everything, but I've never used profanity, and I never heard it in my house when I was a kid. It's hard to avoid it today, because it's EVERYWHERE, but I still try.

[Bawanna]

I don't think it dead but it's certainly on the way out. I lump civility into a group heading along with common sense, respect for others, chivalry and just being courteous.
I attribute its demise to family breakdown. Single parent households, "DAYCARE". Woman in the workplace. (Sorry RD2K) Deadbeat parents raising deadbeat children.
I'm sure its no longer politically correct and everyone knows how I strive to stay completely PC but my family sits at the dinner table every evening, even on weekends all at the same time. We talk. Review the day. Discuss the good and bad things we've experienced over the day. One of the usual subjects is what my people have to say. That would be all you guys. Your all wicked famous in my house. I know where my kids are:eek: both living at home and not.
I don't know of any other household in our neighborhood that still does this, so I must be wierd again.
I suspect as long as several of us here are drawing air into our lungs civility will not be completely dead but its still a struggle.
Dietrich, if you want to experience lack of civility, take a cruise. Wear a helmet, you'll be banging your head against the wall alot. And boat walls are metal.

[Kbovine]

With the slow and ever growing absence of churches and God in people's life, so goes their morality and values. You use to never mention sex or drinking or drugs in front of kids, now we have to tell them as early as possible so they can know what to look out for. While I am a religious man, I don't ever cram it down anyone's throat. As I have always understood it, it is the church and God's job to propose, but never impose. If people would just take time to learn about our forefathers and study the example of the culture of those who lived during the 30's-early 60's, they could really find a great way to model their lives. No we have such skewed views of right and wrong, it seems everyone's goal is to make sure they get theirs and that they make no exceptions or detours in order to live their life as they see fit.

I couldn't agree more. Thanks for the insight, rholmes.

[Indigo]

Civility's death can be scientifically linked to cell phones just like brain cancer (sarcasm). Personally I don't have a home phone so I have to lump myself into this category but I am smart enough to know how to flick a vibrate switch. Every kid over 8 today is given a cell phone like it's a toy and all it has led to is meaningless conversations in inappropriate places like in movies, at the doctor, restaurants, etc. Or when you're trying to talk to a comatose teenager ignoring you cause they are engrossed in a text speed match. I swear it's all true.

[OldLincoln]

P.S. It should be "What is this civility of which you speak?" instead of "What is this civility of which you speak"? if we want to get real technical!! You know how many funny looks you would get is you spoke like that to middle-school or high-school children?I tend to fuss about my own spelling and grammar, but I really don't care much how others post. My reply to you was in jest to make my point, however you are most likely correct about the sentence ending punctuation prior to the end quote.

Believe it or not I actually fuss over that. If the entire senternce is quoted I almost always put the end quote outside the punctuation, but I've been confused forever when the quoted words are embodied within. Of course it's simple when words follow the end quote, but I need clarification otherwise.

After fussin 50 years or so one might think I would have looked it up, but today's grammar is modernized keeping "down" with the youth. I wanted to prove the rule not ending with a preposition but today's grammar rules say it is now okay. Maybe I should just crawl back into my cave and hibernate some more.

[MikeyKahr]

Maybe I should just crawl back into my cave and hibernate some more.

No, please. Last thing we need is hiding in caves and hibernating. Civility would be more on the wane were we to do so. And we may not have been in the political predicament that we're in had there not been so much hibernation and crawling into caves in recent years.

[Jeremiah/Az]

I was in a McDonalds that is near a high school at noon a while back. It was full of young girls with all their makeup on, their boobs & butts showing & much of the foulest language I have ever heard. It seemed as though they were making a point of who could use the "f" word the most & loudest. This was in a high middle class area. I sat there thinking how different it was when I was in school, but that was a long time ago.

[jfrey]

Kids and younger adults today have ben desensitized to the use of 4 letter words. They do it at school and work and no one else says a word to them. The polite society ended when most of us turned 50. I thought I had heard it all from 15 years in the oilfield but get around a bunch of young, half drunk females and see what comes out of their mouths. Kids don't take their hats off in the house any more and put their feet all over the furniture. NOT IN MY GENERATION! They don't do it in my house. It's just too easy to ignore it than for most parents to put out the effort to do something about it.
My parents worried about the effects of Elvis and the Beatles. They don't compare to what goes on today.

[jocko]

I was in a McDonalds that is near a high school at noon a while back. It was full of young girls with all their makeup on, their boobs & butts showing & much of the foulest language I have ever heard. It seemed as though they were making a point of who could use the "f" word the most & loudest. This was in a high middle class area. I sat there thinking how different it was when I was in school, but that was a long time ago.

alot of girls today and no better than the boys. In my school days back in the late 50"s. a girl would never use ANY fould language or she was labeled a "
slut" by her own friends. Boys were boys but the words today used just was not there in my days. Nodoubt we trash talked but I just can't remember any boy trash talking in front of a girl.It just didn't happen. Hell some of the teachers are no better though, get them outside the class room and they seem to let their hair down. so sad but so true. values in our youth today is gaughed by the price of a burger, not morality.. These kids today feed off of these damn phones and texting, Ihave never seen anything like it. they are everywhere. YOu can see someone who you think is poorer than dirt but they will have a damn phone. PRIORITIES??

[johnh]

Some areas of the country are worse than others. I really think teens in our area of Missouri still care about character. I have been very impressed to see them come together and help those in need. Perhaps we are a bit old fashioned, but I am sure glad it is so.

John

[Bawanna]

I agree completely with JohnH. When I've visited my kin in Missouri it's notable the kindness and compassion that exist in that area and probably most of the south. Here if your car breaks down you lock it and walk away and hope it's there when you get back. There I noticed several time 1 broken down vehicle and 10 pick up trucks behind it all trying to help.
I'm sure this is much less prevalent near the big cities like St Louis which is about the only big city I encounter there.
Genuine good people for the most part. Not to say there aren't many in the NW as well, just not nearly as many or as noticeable.
Manners, respect for elders, and woman much more ingrained down there than here also.