Polymer vs. metal

[JohnR]

Who has shot both the K9 and the CW or P9? Everything I've read says they all are great shooters with very nice recoil, and people say the metal K9 "should" have less felt recoil but I've never read anyone who actually compared them side by side. My question is how much different is the recoil between metal vs. polymer?

If I'm going to plunk down a bunch of money on a Kahr, I want the best shooting gun I can get. So if the K9's recoil is noticeably less than the CW or P9, then that make more difference to me than the K9 being heavier in my holster.

And no, nobody in my area has any Kahrs of any model to rent.

[Indigo]

I have a P9 and recoil is minimal for any minimally experienced shooter. I am having a pair of shiny black K9's delivered next Wednesday and the anticipation is killing me. Point being I will have exactly the answer you're looking for on thursday. But I bet at least a dozen people here will already have both and will get back to you before then. But with shooting a thousand rounds through my P9 I can tell you that you won't be disappointed either way.

[Bawanna]

Polymer wins everytime when your thinking of the gun in your holster or in your pocket. It will spend far more time there than it ever will in your hand. The CCW purpose of the gun is designed so you'll never leave it behind because it's too big, too heavy, whatever.
The recoil on a 9 will not in my opinion be an issue in either of your options. I've shot PM9's and MK and K9's and the steel guns might have slightly less kick, has to be so, it's physics.
Make a list of pros and cons in your own ideas. If you want smallest lightest, never left behind, the PM9 is your obvious choice.

All this from an old steel and wood guns rule guy. I have a K40, nice gun, magnaported, nice wood grips of my own design, good size. I also have a PM45 tupperware. While I love the K40 immensely (might will it to Jlottmc) the PM45 is the one that always gets to go to the dance.
Just my nickels worth, less tax, license and dealer prep, guess I owe you 13 cents.

[ripley16]

I have both a K9 and P9 and really can't say there's a large enough difference in recoil to matter. The only time I'd say the heavier K9 would shine above the P9, or CW9, is when you are shooting a high number of rounds. I will say that I like the K9 grip a bit better than the P9 though.

[GOOFA]

I have a K9 Elite 03, a K9 DLC and a MK9. There is a noticeable difference in recoil between them and their polymer counterparts but nothing that can't be overcome. A larger difference would be noticed in favor of the K series in double taps and faster follow up shots. My softest shooting nine, along with being the most accurate and favorite is the K9 Elite03 with the ported extended barrel. One must shoot this combination to appreciate its overall beauty.

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[jocko]

The K9 would be IMO the best shooter to have, it certainly is one beautiful gun also, That being said, A P9 or CW9 will do the same thing, less allthe weight of steel. It is what you want . Our opinions are just that OURS. One thing is for certain, it seems every tme a new gun is offered by a mfg-er IT IS POLYMER. has to be a reason for that.

Ihve the K9 and PM9 (both ported) I shoot the K9 better. I carry the pM9 24/7.

When in doubt BUY BOTH.

[Indigo]

Although the lighter polymer is an advantage for the consumer it's also entirely possible that manufacturers have a higher profit margin on them as well compared to steel which doesn't benefit us in any way. So selling more 'cheaper to make' polymers may be a factor that is a benefit to manufacturer but not us.

[Bawanna]

Although the lighter polymer is an advantage for the consumer it's also entirely possible that manufacturers have a higher profit margin on them as well compared to steel which doesn't benefit us in any way. So selling more cheaper to make polymers may be a factor that is a benefit to manufacturer but not us.

We have a bingo here! It's undoubtedly cheaper to pour frames from tupperware than machine steel, and Kahr does a beautiful job machining steel. I haven't looked inside any new ones but the ones a few years old that I have seen were a thing of beauty inside.
The cost advantage is Kahrs. The carry and convenience advantage is ours. They are very durable and the weight is the biggest plus. Usually when we hear problems they have little to do with the frame or polymer parts.

[O'Dell]

I like polymer, because I value lightness even in a range pistol, and I'm willing to accept a bit more recoil to get that lightness. Since the theft, all my guns are polymer [even the HK] except the two SIG's and they have an alloy frame. The alloy frames are about the same weight as the polymer ones after they mold in metal inserts for the high stress areas. I've also heard that the polymer frames, by slightly flexing, absorb some of the increased recoil.

[Indigo]

I'm sure sometime in the 70's there was a boardroom meeting where one executive said to the other "so we can make plastic guns for 40% less money than steel but still charge 90% of the cost? Let's do it! Now all we need is a gimmick to tell customers why they are better than steel.....hmmmm"

[jeep45238]

With the Kahrs, I always notice more recoil with polymer. I prefer metal Kahrs.

It's very rare to see a polymer frame that's stiff in the right areas and flexible in the right others to reduce the recoil. That's when rock and roll with a steel frame is highly recommended from a shooter's perspective.

Run a good solid belt and holster combination and you'll rarely notice the difference between a steel and a polymer frame.

[O'Dell]

With the Kahrs, I always notice more recoil with polymer. I prefer metal Kahrs.

It's very rare to see a polymer frame that's stiff in the right areas and flexible in the right others to reduce the recoil. That's when rock and roll with a steel frame is highly recommended from a shooter's perspective.

Run a good solid belt and holster combination and you'll rarely notice the difference between a steel and a polymer frame.

That may very well be true, but I seldom carry on the belt. 80% of the time I pocket carry either in the front pants or inside jacket, and the weight certainly makes a difference there, particularly in the jacket.

[jocko]

If ur gonna carry in the pants or a jacket etc, IMO go polymer. If your gonna waist band carry, either one will do the job. I feelthe noticeable recoil feel in polymer over steel is not the flexiing or lack of flexing, but the much lighter weight of the gun itself. You won't wear either version out. I love my K9, can't not love an all steel gun but my 24/7 is my PM9 for reasons of weight and size. Accuracy wise, I think i shoot my K9 alittle beter but I don't hit jack sh-t with either one like I want to. certainly not the guns fault..

[Internet Blohard]

I own a K9 (but don't own, but have fired the P9 enough to be entitled to an opinion). I prefer the K9 in terms of shootability and general comfort. It is not so much a recoil issue as a grips issue. I much prefer the grips of the K9 over any of the polymer Kahrs. In fact, I detest the grips of the polymer frame Kahrs to the extent that I cover them with rubber (as do many others). They are simply unnecessarily rough and knobby for my taste...even for my "working man's" hands.

I do own both the MK9 (wood grips) and the PM9. I Much-Much prefer the MK9 over the PM9 for shooting and for belt carry. I can shoot quite well with the MK and just so-so with the PM. Frankly, I can shoot better with my P380 than with the PM9. I shoot the K9 and the MK9 about the same with the edge to the K9...

With a Very stiff horsehide belt and a good quality holster, the "extra" weight of the MK or K9 on the hip is no big deal over a polymer.

For pocket carry, I agree that the polymer PM9 (or P380) is the way to go......no question about it.....

[GOOFA]

Since the MK9 and PM9 were brought up, I too shoot my MK9 much better than my PM9. With an IWB or OWB holster you hardly notice the difference between the two. Now inside the pocket can be a problem if I'm wearing sweats or nylon type pants with the MK9. However, with a good pocket holster and the right pants I have no problem with this setup.

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[dusty10]

I don't know about the rest of you but, when ever I have pocket carried anything, I can't draw it out of there fast enough or easily enough to do much good in an emergency. I suppose if I wore baggy cargo type pants that pocket carry option would work better but I find IWB a better solution for me with he wardrobe I already have. I find the K9 easy enough to conceal and with a good belt and holster I don't notice the extra weight over a polymer gun.

[jocko]

I don't know about the rest of you but, when ever I have pocket carried anything, I can't draw it out of there fast enough or easily enough to do much good in an emergency. I suppose if I wore baggy cargo type pants that pocket carry option would work better but I find IWB a better solution for me with he wardrobe I already have. I find the K9 easy enough to conceal and with a good belt and holster I don't notice the extra weight over a polymer gun.

ur right, my PM9 in my pocket in my desantis is certainly not a fast draw area for sure But I think we put to much emphasis on that to. You still havethe element of surprise with a pocket gun. No doubt a waist band carry should be faster if we are time ing things but for me I am not going to dress to carry and I can carry my PM9 in my jeans 24/7, so if I sacrifice alittle speed over the fact that it is with me 24/7, that is OK.

[O'Dell]

I don't know about the rest of you but, when ever I have pocket carried anything, I can't draw it out of there fast enough or easily enough to do much good in an emergency. I suppose if I wore baggy cargo type pants that pocket carry option would work better but I find IWB a better solution for me with he wardrobe I already have. I find the K9 easy enough to conceal and with a good belt and holster I don't notice the extra weight over a polymer gun.

Personally, I think it's faster. If you perceive a threat, just put your hand in your pocket and grip the pistol. No one will consider that a threat to them, because a lot of people put their hand in their pants pocket if they are just talking. I know I do. Then if you have to draw, you're already halfway there. You can't reach for a belt holster or shoulder holster without telegraphing your intention.

[Bawanna]

Good thought. I plan to avoid the fast draw routine if at all possible. I figure if I'm in fear I'll just put the gun in my hand and see if the fear goes away.
I apply your logic a little bit to my ankle PM45. I figure I can bend over in a semi fetal position in the chair wimpering like a baby moaning please don't hurt me while I'm unleashing PM45 hell!
Course they might just shoot me to stop the whining, I know I've been tempted a few times. Working with 10 woman in this place makes whining turn my stomach. That and nagging! Like to carve out a few voice boxes and quiet things up. Their on to me turning off the hearing aid.

[jlottmc]

Ouch, that hearing aid thing would be great if I had to have one. I still hear like a dog though, so I'm up a creek on that one. As for the original topic, pick whichever trips your trigger and don't look back. Remember as Clint Smith would say "A handgun is supposed to be comforting not comfortable." You'll hardly notice the weight difference and keep these bits in mind as well: 1) many of us carry a full sized steel frame 1911, or a 4" bbl stainless revolver etc. and while yes we carry on the belt it's not a big deal if you set the belt up for it. 2) when those of us that carry those kinds of cannons decide to pocket carry, we hardly notice the steel framed snub .357 (yes I load it with full house .357's in 110 gr semi jacketed hollow point variety) in the pocket. 3) I'd be willing to bet that many of us also have a sizable amount of junk on us at any given time, so what is a little more weight? I'll get off the soap box now but I think we all know where I lean.

[O'Dell]

Ouch, that hearing aid thing would be great if I had to have one. I still hear like a dog though, so I'm up a creek on that one. As for the original topic, pick whichever trips your trigger and don't look back. Remember as Clint Smith would say "A handgun is supposed to be comforting not comfortable." You'll hardly notice the weight difference and keep these bits in mind as well: 1) many of us carry a full sized steel frame 1911, or a 4" bbl stainless revolver etc. and while yes we carry on the belt it's not a big deal if you set the belt up for it. 2) when those of us that carry those kinds of cannons decide to pocket carry, we hardly notice the steel framed snub .357 (yes I load it with full house .357's in 110 gr semi jacketed hollow point variety) in the pocket. 3) I'd be willing to bet that many of us also have a sizable amount of junk on us at any given time, so what is a little more weight? I'll get off the soap box now but I think we all know where I lean.

Since you have one I thought you might be interested that I took the KP345 to the range today. I've bought 4 pistols since the theft, but the 2 SIG's and the HK are new and have full factory warranties, so I wasn't worried about them. The Ruger on the other hand was used, and I was interested to see how it worked. I needn't have worried. I shot 150 rounds of cheap FMJ's and 25 rounds of +p GD's w/o a hiccup. The recoil was surprisingly mild even with the +P's and after 50 rounds to learn the SA trigger, I put the rest in 2 inch groups right on POA at 30 feet. I was impressed with the gun.

[JohnR]

Speaking of the P345, the K9 weighs about the same and I don't mind the weight of the Ruger on my belt; it's the size I mind - hence the small 9mm I seek.

The more I think about this, it would seem prudent that the gun I shoot the best is the one I ought to carry every day. All my instincts tell me to go metal. I will never pocket carry it, so that's not a factor. I do appreciate all the input - nobody is wrong; it's all what works best for you!

[dusty10]

I guess I'm getting too fat then because I couldn't get an LCP out of my pocket without a 5 minute struggle. :D I think those are even smaller than the PM9. Well thanks for the motivation guys. I'm off to weight watchers now. :( And I liked being fat.......

[jlottmc]

Since you have one I thought you might be interested that I took the KP345 to the range today. I've bought 4 pistols since the theft, but the 2 SIG's and the HK are new and have full factory warranties, so I wasn't worried about them. The Ruger on the other hand was used, and I was interested to see how it worked. I needn't have worried. I shot 150 rounds of cheap FMJ's and 25 rounds of +p GD's w/o a hiccup. The recoil was surprisingly mild even with the +P's and after 50 rounds to learn the SA trigger, I put the rest in 2 inch groups right on POA at 30 feet. I was impressed with the gun.

It is a surprisingly sweet shooter. The more I handle it and the more I shoot it the more I like it. I read a report on a class some high speed low drag kind of LEO's went to. They laughed at the one guy that had a Ruger, the instructor said to remember who he was. After the shooting portion, the instructor raised the question that in all the 2000 some odd rounds they went through how many had at least one malfunction. There was only one guy who didn't. Guess who. Are there some things I might change if I could, a few but nothing major. Matter of fact, it's today's carry gun, and may be till the weekend. Shoot all of your toys and bond with them, but remember that Ruger may not be the belle of the ball, but is a great gun.

[Indigo]

John I took his and hers DLC K9's to the range last weekend. My wife and I could both notice a small difference in recoil. 175 rounds through each 350 total 1 FTE 1 FTF 1 stovepipe, otherwise perfect little shooters. The K9 frame compared to the P9 just feels more solid. Noticeably heavier than P9 but the metal frame just feels more precise or manufactured to a more exact tolerance. I don't know how exactly to say what I'm trying to say but the metal version just felt nothing short of perfect, not sloppy, just every part in perfect harmony with the rest. It's my new best friend.