P380 or PM9

[SpyderTattoo]

Guys, I only own Glocks right now but am looking at a Kahr as a backup/pocket gun. I keep changing my mind between the P380 and the PM9.

My debate... .380 is smaller and will fit in pocket better.
PM9 has more powerful ammo, just a little bigger.
This will be a backup gun, and also used when I just can't carry either of my Glocks.

Anyone have any advice, since I'm new to Kahr, and experience with maybe having this problem? I'm still saving up the funds, but will have the money within a month or two. Coming down to crunch-time.

Thank you

[Bawanna]

Warning, personal opinion headed your way.

I'd make a pro and con list on this one.

380's are more difficult to find but if you really want one you'll find one.

380 ammo is still grossly expensive and while somewhat better at least in my area still hard to find sometimes.

The 9 as you state is more viable power wise. Ammo is borderline cheap relatively speaking and more plentiful and the gun really isn't that much larger. Course when talking small a tiny bit can make a big difference. Many here pocket carry PM9's with ease, can't do that with any Glock. Some pocket carry PM45's, guess it's pocket size that matters.

I actually should have sat on the sidelines on this one as I have no use for anything 380 and very little faith in 9.

So get a PM45?

I think you'll be happy either way you go. If its strictly a backup gun the smaller 380 might fit the bill your describing. The go everywhere no matter what I'm wearing gun. And it's still way better than throwing rock, well small rocks anyhow.

Both of these come up for sale here from time to time and when crunch time gets here we're all here to help with the search. Pretty much got the whole country covered for sure. Here to help all we can.

[jocko]

I own both the P380 and PM9. My two cents BUY THE pm9

[O'Dell]

Warning, personal opinion headed your way.

I'd make a pro and con list on this one.

380's are more difficult to find but if you really want one you'll find one.

380 ammo is still grossly expensive and while somewhat better at least in my area still hard to find sometimes.

The 9 as you state is more viable power wise. Ammo is borderline cheap relatively speaking and more plentiful and the gun really isn't that much larger. Course when talking small a tiny bit can make a big difference. Many here pocket carry PM9's with ease, can't do that with any Glock. Some pocket carry PM45's, guess it's pocket size that matters.

I actually should have sat on the sidelines on this one as I have no use for anything 380 and very little faith in 9.

So get a PM45?

I think you'll be happy either way you go. If its strictly a backup gun the smaller 380 might fit the bill your describing. The go everywhere no matter what I'm wearing gun. And it's still way better than throwing rock, well small rocks anyhow.

Both of these come up for sale here from time to time and when crunch time gets here we're all here to help with the search. Pretty much got the whole country covered for sure. Here to help all we can.

I agree more or less, but since I have already have a flawless PM45, I'm still going to get a PM9. One reason is that I have about 1600 rounds of 9mm, and since the theft, not much that shoots it. I have little faith in the 380.

[Indigo]

The fact that a pink version of the p380 exists should be enough of a deterrent. Go with the 9. Just sayin'.
Anyway it makes more sense to have another 9mm in your stable that can feed the same ammo as what you already have. Keeps it simple.

[Bawanna]

I agree more or less, but since I have already have a flawless PM45, I'm still going to get a PM9. One reason is that I have about 1600 rounds of 9mm, and since the theft, not much that shoots it. I have little faith in the 380.

Thanks daddy, I've actually used that excuse many times to get a new gun. Honey I have all these free bullets but nothing I can shoot them with. Oh ok, just this 39th time, but no more.

[O'Dell]

The fact that a pink version of the p380 exists should be enough of a deterrent. Go with the 9. Just sayin'.
Anyway it makes more sense to have another 9mm in your stable that can feed the same ammo as what you already have. Keeps it simple.

I didn't know that. I may have to get one of those now>:D

[Indigo]

It's right on Kahr's website but they only sell them through one distributor. It's got a nice pepto-bismol color to it. My wife said "ooooohhhh pretty!" and I immediately retained an attorney.

[SpyderTattoo]

Both my Glocks are in .45, the G21 and G30. I work security for the local gunshow and know a dealer that has two of each the P380 and PM9, so getting either one won't be a problem. Now I think I'm kinda' leaning toward the PM9 instead of the smaller .380.

[jocko]

good idea. firepower always prevails..

[SpyderTattoo]

By the way, you guys here on the Kahr forums are way more nice than the people over at GlockTalk.

[Bawanna]

That G21 duty gun with a 30 or 36 is a great setup for officers. I got at least 12 sets of those walking around here and the rest are seeking the 30's too. Being a civillian office puke I had planned to get a 36 but went with the PM45 instead. Pretty much had all the glocks at one time or another, I like the glocks just fine too, just a tad too bulky when your not wearing the uniform. I got my own 21 just cause. Never carry it, shoot it some, hung a light on it and makes a great nightstand gun.
I think there are now 3 officers here with that pair that now also have PM9's for off duty or backups in some cases. I know 2 originally were after 380's but switched tracks and went with the 9.

[Indigo]

I love my p9. I don't think you will be disappointed with that choice. At the end of the day would you trust your life to .380 over 9mm is the question you should ask.

[joje]

the pm9 is almost 50% heavier and imo on the big side for pocket carry. if you can only have one i guess it comes down to if you want a marginal caliber that you can carry all the time, or a good caliber that you can carry almost all the time.

i dont own a p380 but i have an old p3at that i still carry when pm9 iwb doesnt work. i even have a necklace holster for it.

[Bawanna]

By the way, you guys here on the Kahr forums are way more nice than the people over at GlockTalk.

I find myself always thankful that JohnH and JustinN let things kind of go freestyle here on this forum. While I don't look at any other forums unless directed there by a link, I have seen a few entries on Glocktalk and they are indeed way way serious over there.
We get people here from time to time who really don't like the freestyle here, panties get all wadded up if a post gets off track.
Sometimes I can understand a new guy, struggling with a gun thats acting up and he's deperate for answers and cures and off track post dont help him. That doesn't happen often and normally theres a pile of good solid suggestions to help old and new people out here.
I'm to the point where if something isn't fun and enjoyable I don't bother with it anymore. Can't hardly handle serious at all anymore.
So again, thanks JohnH for letting us play the way we want.

[wyntrout]

I have both and it gives me a choice. I wear shorts most of the year and the P380 is really easy to carry. I always carry IWB in the 4 o'clock or so position.

If you're only going to get one of the two, you can't go wrong with the PM9. I didn't see or hold a PM9 until after I had ordered my P380 with night sights... which turned into an 11-month wait. Since I had paid in advance, I didn't try to cancel with penalty, but I wound up getting a PM9 before my PM45 just because everyone on this forum seemed to have one and it's very small for a 9mm. Within a month I got my PM45 and about a month later, my P380 finally arrived.

If I had to give up one of my polymer pistols, though, it would be the PM9. I would have the tiny P380 and my Boomer, the PM45... it's just a tad big for shorts and tees or polos... not that I don't carry it anyhow sometime.

Thankfully, I don't have to make a choice like that. It's nice to have a choice, and also a backup that's in between the two extremes.

Wynn:)

[jocko]

the pm9 is almost 50% heavier and imo on the big side for pocket carry. if you can only have one i guess it comes down to if you want a marginal caliber that you can carry all the time, or a good caliber that you can carry almost all the time.

i dont own a p380 but i have an old p3at that i still carry when pm9 iwb doesnt work. i even have a necklace holster for it.

with my PM9, been riding in my front pocket for over 4 years, The P380 is small, but so is the caliber. The NAA mini revolver is even alot smaller but again so is the caliber. It is a personal choice, carry what you feel is right for you.. I ca't see a necklace hoster for any P3AT or the lcp. really alot of uncalled for weight and IMO certainly no faster draw area than pocket carry ..

[O'Dell]

the pm9 is almost 50% heavier and imo on the big side for pocket carry. if you can only have one i guess it comes down to if you want a marginal caliber that you can carry all the time, or a good caliber that you can carry almost all the time.

i dont own a p380 but i have an old p3at that i still carry when pm9 iwb doesnt work. i even have a necklace holster for it.

I've been pocket carrying the PM45 all year, and before that a CW9. Both are larger and heavier than a PM9. That why I plan to get one to replace the stolen CW9.

[O'Dell]

By the way, you guys here on the Kahr forums are way more nice than the people over at GlockTalk.

Of course we are. Owning a Glock naturally gives you a lousy attitude.

[Bawanna]

Of course we are. Owning a Glock naturally gives you a lousy attitude.

Oh my!:eek: I'm powering up my force fields and putting on body armor. You might have crossed a line there dad. I got your back, count on that but it could get freaking ugly.
Course that 21 in my nightstand my explain my lousey attitude.

[MichSteve]

You ask a great question, I must warn you once you have a Kahr pistol your Glock's might end up in you gun safe, I just saying, I used to have a G23 and a G22, I still have a G19 great gun.

I hardly ever carry my G19, I have a PM9 and it shoots as well as the G19 at self defense ranges, different trigger, once you try the size difference you will be carrying the PM9 as your EDC.

I sold a Ruger LCP because I just don't have confidence in the 380 ballistics, especially in colder weather with heavier clothes to shoot through.

My guess you will end up with more than one Kahr, if you start with the PM9, my guess is you will get the PM45 next and maybe even trade the Glock in on it.

[O'Dell]

Oh my!:eek: I'm powering up my force fields and putting on body armor. You might have crossed a line there dad. I got your back, count on that but it could get freaking ugly.
Course that 21 in my nightstand my explain my lousey attitude.

I appreciate it Bawanna, but I'm not worried. If I get a lot of negative posts, it just proves my point. If not, we ARE nicer. It's a win - win situation.

Anyway, I'm in North Atlanta and I think I'm out of Glock range from most.

[Bawanna]

I appreciate it Bawanna, but I'm not worried. If I get a lot of negative posts, it just proves my point. If not, we ARE nicer. It's a win - win situation.

Anyway, I'm in North Atlanta and I think I'm out of Glock range from most.

Wow, didn't think of it that way. This must be why you make the big bucks. I'm still leaving the force fields up and the body armor on, there's lots of them Glocks all around me here. I'm surely in somebody's range.
And we are nicer thats a historical fact, I don't care who you are.

[Bawanna]

Ok Spydertattoo, to make up for us hijacking your thread to talk about how nice we are, I propose we take a kahrtalk vote, I don't know how to do one of them official polls like the smart guys sometimes do but we can just wing it.
Everybody ring in with what they think Spydertattoo should buy.
The options are P380 and PM9 although that's never limited anything here before so I'm sure we'll get everything from Makarovs to Ed Brown specials.
Lets hear it, we're getting down to crunch time. I think this might mean money that mom don't know about that has to be spent before she knows we had it. Donations welcome too. Send em to me, I'll forward appropriately.

[O'Dell]

If not previously noted, a big vote for the PM9.

[dusty10]

I'd get the PM9 for better ballistics than the .380.

[Indigo]

I stand by my earlier assertion that if it's available in pink it is more of a woman's fashion accessory than a weapon. 9 all the way. Might as well let it ride in a purse next to the chihuahua.

[MikeyKahr]

Pm9

[SpyderTattoo]

LOL, you guys are too funny! I'm sitting here laughing my ass off! I won't be getting a Kahr in .45 since I already have two .45's. I love my Glocks, just got my armorer's cert by the way... I think I'm convinced to get the PM9. Not that much bigger and way better ballistics.

Anyone around these forums a member of the Washington Arms Collectors? If so, I work for the security team at WAC, you might recognize me.

By the way, since I don't know much about Kahr's, which slide is recommended, stainless or the black?

[Indigo]

LOL, you guys are too funny! I'm sitting here laughing my ass off! I won't be getting a Kahr in .45 since I already have two .45's. I love my Glocks, just got my armorer's cert by the way... I think I'm convinced to get the PM9. Not that much bigger and way better ballistics.

Anyone around these forums a member of the Washington Arms Collectors? If so, I work for the security team at WAC, you might recognize me.

By the way, since I don't know much about Kahr's, which slide is recommended, stainless or the black?

Slides are a personal choice that if you took a poll it would be split down the middle. I had a p9 in stainless that I swapped out for black because I liked the matte grippy feeling of the black. Stainless was slippery in my hand just didn't feel right. Black can scratch if you handle it carelessly but people like shiny look of stainless a lot. Some people feel that slippery is good when removing from holster but I personally think that effect is negligible, so basically just decide if you like shiny or not.

[SpyderTattoo]

I just watched a youtube video with Hickok45 reviewing the PM9. At one point he holds the P380 next to the PM9 to compare size. I think that did it for me. I can live with the little extra size to get the bigger calliber.

[dusty10]

Of course we are. Owning a Glock naturally gives you a lousy attitude.

Well I better not get a Glock. My attitude is lousy enough as it is. :D

[kahrseye]

I started with a Kel Tec P3AT, sold it and bought an LCP, sold it and bought a Sig P238. Everytime I felt I was moving up in quality. Then I found the PM9. It was virtually the same size as the Sig AND it was a 9MM! I had to have it. So I sold my Sig and bought the PM9. I pocket carry this gun 95% of the time, the other 5 percent I carry thePM45 or my last glock, the 27. When you look at the difference in size, availability of the ammo, the cost of the ammo.....9mm wins everytime (over the .380). The .380 listed is my girlfriends. She loves it but I think it's too small for me. Good luck, you'll make the best decision for you.

[kpm9]

I own both the P380 and PM9. My two cents BUY THE pm9

Me too, get the Pm9, THEN get the P380. :D

[Bawanna]

LOL, you guys are too funny! I'm sitting here laughing my ass off! I won't be getting a Kahr in .45 since I already have two .45's. I love my Glocks, just got my armorer's cert by the way... I think I'm convinced to get the PM9. Not that much bigger and way better ballistics.

Anyone around these forums a member of the Washington Arms Collectors? If so, I work for the security team at WAC, you might recognize me.

By the way, since I don't know much about Kahr's, which slide is recommended, stainless or the black?

I've been a WAC member for many years. I'm there Sunday mornings in Monroe 10 am. You can set your watch by it. You work Monroe too or just Puyallup. I don't often drive to Puyallup unless I have a truck load of money. It as you know is 5 times the show but it's a drive for me.
If you work Monroe, wear a pink too too next month and I'll look ya up.

[oldjarhead]

My philosophy on carry guns is that your back up gun should be good enough to do the job your main carry gun will do. For me the PM 9 fits that bill. A 9mm with Speer short barrel 124g gold dots will do the job if your bullet placement is good, in my opinion.

My pm9 fits well in my 5.11 Tac light pants, that I wear most of the time. The pockets are deep enough, and if I want to, it fits fine in the cargo side pockets. I use a Desantis Nemesis holster. My two cents. Hope this helps you. You gotten a lot of good advice so far.

[SpyderTattoo]

I do work the Monroe show as well. I usually have a shaved head. I will be the one with the remote radio mic clipped to my vest. Look for the six-pointed security badge too. I'm the only one with one of those.

[Bawanna]

I do work the Monroe show as well. I usually have a shaved head. I will be the one with the remote radio mic clipped to my vest. Look for the six-pointed security badge too. I'm the only one with one of those.

You gonna rat me out for my hidden loaded guns, camera's, and 13 full magazines if I say hi?
You can pick me out pretty easy too, closely cropped hair but not shaved,(my mommy won't cut it that short) I'll be the one getting around without standing up, (about 4'2") usually have my boy along to act as my bodyguard and hearing ear dog. I think his mother sends him along to keep me from buying stuff too. If you talk to me and I dont respond it ain't that I'm an a$$hole, just deaf, well maybe both. Maybe mostly a$$hole.
Lets see skin head, remote radio mic, six point badge, I got ya.
Warning- when I see shaved heads which I prefer by the way, I'm for some reason absessed with drawing a line on them with a felt marker and making them look like a butt. How weird is that?

[taseal]

I went with the P380 because I live in FL, and when you wear shorts (especially very thin shorts) anything weighs and sags the shorts. a PM9 would have sagged it. I went with the smallest most comf pistol which was a P380. It'll start to get cool here soon so I won't have a problem wearing my SW MP9, but when it heats up, I'll be back to the P380.

The size diff is very small, but the weight is an issue too depending on what you wear.

and I can tell you I've seen guys stay in a fight after getting hit in the abdomen with a .45... if you train well enough, and hit the right spot with a .380, you can end the fight just as fast as if you had a 9 or a .45..

my opinion.

[robdnor]

I have an lcp simply because i live at the beach in the summer, so pocket space is extremely lacking... also have an mk9 and a PM40... id say go with the pm9 unless your worried about hiding it in your running shorts. but i had my PM40 comfortable in a wrb (like a nemesis) pocket holster in a pair of size 36 polo chinos front pocket it that says anything.... or you could step up to the 40 if you really wanna go bang. lol....

1 vote for the pm9 over p380

[joje]

I ca't see a necklace hoster for any P3AT or the lcp. really alot of uncalled for weight and IMO certainly no faster draw area than pocket carry ..

i wear it all the time when hunting. outside my fleece but under my shell jacket, where i leave the middle button unbuttoned for easy access. if anything the draw is faster than a pocket draw in business casual, and literally 10 times faster than some #$*(( pocket draw parody when you have three layers of pants to work your way through down to the pocket. you need to dress if you're gonna last in -10 for 8 hours...

the weight doesnt bother me one bit, in fact ive thought about making a necklace holster for my pm9 but that *would* get a bit heavy. i guess if i need the range and knock down power i'll use the 7mag :)

oh, and said holster is also great for ultra deep concealment, just tie it around the hip instead and pull the shorts over it. works perfect for jogging when even a 10 ounce gun in the pocket eventually starts pulling down the shorts. the only downside is i basically have to flash the bad guy when drawing

[Jeremiah/Az]

I have both the PM9 & the P380. They both have their place for me. I agree that the .380 is minimal, but the P380 is very accurate & shots can be placed where you want them, as with the PM9 also. At least when I'm not peein' my britches!

Bawanna, everytime I see a shaved head, I'm gonna think of your magic marker & a butt! Hope it's a girl's! Wanna make some other marks maybe?

[Retops]

I am of like mind with the poster above. I love all kinds of guns and shoot them all. The PM9 was my first Kahr and I still carry it. Also have a PM40 that sees some service. I did, however, buy a P380 and I think it is really useful. It is the gun I carry when I am wearing a business suit as it fits nicely in the pocket of my suit pants in its RKBA holster. The lightness and somewhat smaller size makes me a little more confident that I won't call attention to my armed status when I am moving about in business circles.

I had a P3AT that used to fill this function, but shooting that little beast was always a challenge. The trigger just drove me crazy. The trigger on my P380 is the smoothest of any of my Kahrs and is a joy to shoot. The little bugger is accurate as hell at the ranges it is likely to be deployed.

When I was an active gun toter for a living, I used to have to carry a full size Browning and later a Glock with either a PPK or a J frame as backup. Now that I am mostly retired, it is nice to have choices.

[SpyderTattoo]

Oh boy... I was working security today at the gunshow and found 3 PM9's, and two were black slide versions. "drool" Best price there was $615 out the door. I'm working on Mama tonight when she gets home so maybe I can get one at the show tomorrow. Cross your fingers for me tonight guys :)

[erice303]

Fingers crossed

[Indigo]

By getting one of those shiny new highly reliable guns you are doing everything to your ability to defend her. It would be a crime NOT to buy one.

[SpyderTattoo]

Hard to use that as justification since I already carry a Glock 21 and a Glock 30. (not at the same time...) But I do see where you're coming from brother.

"Honey, If I was somehow unable to use my primary gun I could always go to my backup gun..."

[Bawanna]

Just tell her Jocko said it was ok. Works everytime.

[Bawanna]

615 out the door is a wonderful price too. Especially if thats the DLC one. Tell here Jocko approved that and Wynn is fond of black guns. I think your good to go.
Don't mention me, your too close and she might find out where I live somehow.
Good luck but I don't think you'll need.

[wyntrout]

Hey, I like stainless steel, and if it can be black and not shiny, that's better... stealth. Plain SS is easier to modify, though, if you want to smooth down sharp stuff... not so easy with the DLC... kind of ruins the black when you sand or file it.:eek:
Wynn:)

[SpyderTattoo]

Well, it was a No-Go today. But that's OK. I found another vendor there that is going to give me a quote Monday. One of my security buddies that knows this vendor put in a good word for me. I guess the vendor told my buddy that he could get me the same PM9 for about $125 less than the $615 quote from the first vendor yesterday. Nice.

I never thought of the situation where I might want to mod the slide just a little and having the black one would make it tougher. I think I'll actually go with the plain stainless. After all, it is going in my pocket so no one will see it anyway.

Thanks for the support guys, I'll be sure to keep you filled in as this situation progresses. :)

[BroncoAZ]

I have both the PM9 and the P380. Both guns are great, but the P380 is small enough to be a Ruger LCP pocket gun replacement. For strictly pocket carry I'd definately get the P380, if you can and will IWB carry get the PM9.

[SpyderTattoo]

Bawanna, see you this weekend in Monroe for the gunshow?

[Bawanna]

Bawanna, see you this weekend in Monroe for the gunshow?

Yup, I'll be the one not standing up. I'll bring show and tell so I can give the tie guys at the door something to do.

Not to worry I'm gonna leave my big felt marker at home too, no temptation to do the line on the head thing, that's just sick.

[copterdrvr]

I have a CW9, P380 and a PM9. The two nine's are 100% reliable, the 380-not so much. Fluffed and buffed them all and put over 300 rounds through 'em and my Keltec P3AT is way more reliable (100%) than the P380. The P380 is a heck of a lot more fun to shoot though-until it jams.

[BroncoAZ]

I have a CW9, P380 and a PM9. The two nine's are 100% reliable, the 380-not so much. Fluffed and buffed them all and put over 300 rounds through 'em and my Keltec P3AT is way more reliable (100%) than the P380. The P380 is a heck of a lot more fun to shoot though-until it jams.

What are you using for ammo in the P380? Mine failed twice in the first 100 rounds with S&B, but not at all with PMC or the gold dots.

[jocko]

Read of more issues with the SB roundin the P380 than any other round, Why I cannot explain, but BroncoAZ u did the right thing, you have success with the PMC and gold dots, so just stick with them. MY P380 hated golden sabres 102 grain rounds and fired everything else.

[BroncoAZ]

I've got another 300 rounds of the S&B ammo to work through, but I'm not going to count any failures with the ammo against the gun. A 2% failure rate while I'm target shooting won't be a big deal. I've got American Eagle and PMC to feed it going forward.

[henshao]

A bullet to the brain will stop anyone, outside of that you want to punch the biggest holes possible through the person you are trying to stop. The most important part of doing such a thing is connecting with your ordnance, and I don't see why you couldn't reliably achieve hits with the pm9.

Carrying a (backup) gun that ain't gonna stop nobody would be pointless. Not that the P380 isn't going to stop anyone, but can you imagine putting the entire magazine into a bad guy's chest and him not going down? Much less likely with the 9mm if you ask me.

I personally tote a cw45. With 7 230grain golden sabers in it. I don't have a backup gun. Ideally I guess you'd want an airweight .357 magnum wheelgun, but those are really hard to shoot after the first round, which means minimal practice.

[Crusty]

Like so many, I'm tired of the Mine's bigger yours sucks segways. Yes, bigger is generally better, but it's the gun that gets carried that saves your butt. Many of us will find the 9 a tad large for pocket carry. If you get proficient with the .380, it can be a useful tool in the SD arena. Like you, Henshao, I prefer the .45 and have a Para LDA Carry that I love. I carry the .45 when I can but love the P380 for when I truly need small/light(this summer it was with me more than the .45). I've personally never been a fan of the 9mm, but to each their own. Find a defensive arm that meets your needs, train with it regularly and carry it with the mindset of a survivor.
:86:

[Kuzzy]

Hey Spidy

Why not use a Glock 26 or Glock 27? Too big?

Have you ever shot a PM9? Not target nonsense but at something such as IDPA?

PM9 Strengths--excellent size and weight for firepower.

Weaknesses--long trigger pull, very long trigger reset, trigger reach is too short for many, trigger very different than glock's; grip too small for many; not as reliable, shootable, or clearable as a Glock 26/27; overpriced.

Unless you are really needing a gun for your pocket literally then go with the PM9 over the P380 hands down (P380 is not as reliable and the problems of shootability are even worse than the PM9).