Problem unloading CW40

[TheTman]

Hi all, I'm new to the forum. I just picked up a Kahr CW40 last month. It's been pretty solid so far, I put about 350 rounds thru it so for with just a couple FTF's and FTE, and the slide locked back a couple times in with several rounds thru the magazine.
Holding the pistol with a better grip has eliminated most of the problems I'm having with the gun (the slide still locks back occasionally for no apparent reason, I'm hoping that will work itself out with more shooting). The biggest annoyance to me is unloading the pistol at the end of the day. I'm using this as my primary CC weapon now. I got a good deal on some Winchester Ranger 155 gr Law Enforcement ammo, product number RA40155HP and have been using that as my carry round. Shooting this ammo presents no problems, it shoots, ejects, and chambers the next round with no problem. The problem i'm having is when I when I go to eject the round in the barrel at the end of the day, the slide hangs up as it trys to eject the round, and I really have to put all my strength into racking the slide back far enough to eject the round. I've tried racking the slide very quicly using most of my strength but it always hangs up with that 155 gr ammo.
I called Kahr and they just told me to switch to a different brand of ammo, which is no problem, other than I have quite a few boxes of this Winchester Ranger on hand. My solution has been to load the round in the chamber with a 135 gr Ranger round that ejects with no problem, and load the rest of the magazine with the 155 gr. The 135 gr and most other ammunition I've tried ejects with no problem. The 135 gr and the 155 gr appear to be the same length, but the 155 gr is noticebly wider at the tip.
I was just wondering if anyone else has had a similar problem, and what ammo were they using. I'll try to attach a picture showing how the round hangs up. Just wanting to know if there was anyone else was having problems with live rounds not ejecting and what ammo they were using so I may avoid it in the future. Do you think this problem might work itself out after more shooting? I'm also considering buying the 4" ported barrel to tame the recoil some and that may eliminate the problem (or cause new ones).
I've read in the forums of others using 155 gr Winchester Ranger and Silvertip ammo with no problems. Anyway, just thought I'd throw this out there.
http://pccomps.com/graphics/kahrjam2.jpg

[slowpoke]

I have the same gun.
I'm using Federal 155gr American Eagle fmj & Hydra-Shoks and am having no trouble whatsoever.
Maybe your gun just don't like that ammo.

Are you yanking the slide back fast enough?

[Bawanna]

Why eject the chambered round at the end of the day? It looks like the bullet is just tight clearing the ejection port. Can you lock the slide back when it's hung up like that or its hanging up before that point.
We've seen this before where the slide wasn't pulled briskly enough but it sounds like you've already given that a chance.
The slide locking back may be you inadvertantly hitting the lever with your thumb unless of course your left handed. It's easy to do and you often times don't even notice it.
Taking a second look at the picture I fall back to not pulling the slide far enough. It should clear. I'm perplexed and shall ponder this.

[dusty10]

I seem to remember reading somewhere about the dangers of repeated chambering of live bullets. Something about the shape of the casing changing making the round unstable after repeated chamberings and ejections. If my memory is incorrect, please correct me and this post. :yo:

[jeep45238]

More to do with setting the bullet further back in the case, reducing the volume within the case, and jacking up the pressures when the cartadge is fired.

Something to defiantely watch for on .40S&W, as it's running on the high side of the pressure curve from the factory. Ever wonder why there's no SAMMI for .40S&W +p?



Hint, the round is more or less already at +p pressures.





I too am cornfuzed as to why you're unloading at the end of the day. Keep it in it's holster, call it a day, and no worries.

[johnatw]

At first my CW40 did the same thing with Remmington Golden Saber 165 gr. bullets. After breaking in the problem went away, and I can unload them fine now. I only unloaded my carry ammo when at the firing range, then reloaded after cleaning so the problem was not a big deal to me at the time.

[phred]

Like several memebers have already said, I would be concerned with bullet set back by repeated unloading and chambering of the same round.

I leave my carry gun loaded and holstered when I get home. I know that may not be an acceptable method to some due to having kids at home and such, but it works for me with just me, my wife and a couple of dogs at home. Perhaps you could leave it loaded and just lock it up in a safe or something, to prevent unauthorized access.

[ripley16]

If the picture is accurate, it sounds like you are trying to unload by ejecting the chambered round and using the slide catch lever to hold the slide with the loaded mag still inserted. That is an awkward way to unload at best and dangerous at worst. I suggest you drop the magazine first. The round should efect into the air and if not it should drop down through the mag well.

I concur on the lack of need to constantly unload the pistol. Unless there is some particular reason, you should leave the gun holstered . Constant handling only increases the chance of mis-handling and can cause over pressure problems. As a rule of thumb, you should only re-chamber a round a couple times before either shooting it or taking it out of use.

[TheTman]

Thank you everyone, I'm awed at the number of responses in such a short time.
Let me try and answer questions in order they were asked. I am yanking the slide back as fast as I can. It hangs before it gets to the slide stop so that isn't the problem. I have to put on a leather glove to get a better grip on the slide and not tear up my hand then have to pull back on the slide with all my strength to get those 155 gr's to eject.
I unload the pistol to safely practice my draw with it, and do some dry firing excercises. It's less than a month old and I'm still getting to know it and it's my first DAO pistol so that is taking some getting used too. I really like to get to know a gun that I use it for CC. I must say it sure does shoot nice. Way more accurate than I am. Recoil is a bit snappy, but not unpleasant. If I start my shooting session with a cylinder or 2 out of my .44 mag, the recoil of the Kahr seems pretty tame in comparison. I'm getting pretty comfortable with my draw and presentation and getting a "shot" off in about 2 seconds, so maybe I should just leave it loaded and put it up at the end of the day as suggested. No kids to worry about here.
Maybe it just needs more rounds through it. I'd really rather have over 500 rounds and preferably 1000 rounds thru a semi-auto before I consider it reliable for carry, and maybe the problem will work itself out. If not there is plenty of other ammo that I'd consider carrying. The Kahr was shooting pretty reliably after about 250 rounds, and after another 100 rounds with no problems, I decided to go ahead and carry it.
Thanks for bringing up the fact about a round being repeatedly loaded and unloaded into the chamber of a semi-auto. I hadn't thought about that. The 155 gr when I do unload them often have some marks on the bullet so I set those aside, but I hadn't given any thought to the bullet possibly being jammed further into the case with repeated chambering of the same round. The 135 gr bullet appears to be the same height as others in the box, but I had better borrow some calipers to get an accurate reading on it before I fire it. These Ranger rounds are loaded pretty hot (compared to the WWB FMJ I've been practicing with) and perhaps just a little additional pressure might cause a Ka-boom.
I've been reading this forum since I stumbled onto it shortly after aquiring my Kahr, and I want to say that you are a great bunch of folks that always seem ready to help anyone with a problem. I have more questions about the ported barrel and lasers and leather and such so you'll probably see more of me.
Thanks again for all the responses!

[TheTman]

Ripley16, you snuck in on me while I was writing my 2nd book. I always eject the magazine and then eject the round in the chamber. I am not using the slide catch as the slide does not even make it to that point before the round jams in the gun.
I just stuck the mag back in to raise the gun up a tad for the picture.
As for the reason for constantly unloading it. Being a new pistol with a new carry holster, I like to practice my draw and presentation from my concealed carry conditions. I was used to carrying a revolver so this is a bit different and I want to be able to draw, present and fire a shot in under 2 seconds. For me, this requires practice. I agree, the more you handle a gun the greater the chance for a mishap, but I go to great lengths to insure the gun is unloaded, have no live ammo in my practice area. As a former Young Hunter Safety instructor, I am a great believer in safety, and do multiple checks to make sure the gun is unloaded before I do any practice. I'm getting to know the gun pretty well by now so my practice sessions are not as frequent as they were, so more often the gun is put away holstered and ready to go for the next day. Thank you for your safety concerns. Whenever someone brings up safe handling of firearms they have my full attention.

[wyntrout]

Try holding the pistol horizontally with the ejection port down and pulling back on the slide briskly.

A quick check for "jammed" bullets is to line them up on the table or another flat surface and then lay the magazine on top of them with the spine down. You can quickly spot differences in overall length. If they aren't too bad, just load the longer ones first to fire (on top) to spread out the chambering effects... like rotating your car tires... or put them aside for the range.

I still have one .45 that really jammed on chambering... upsetting the bullet a bit in the case. I tried light tapping with a hammer to try to get the bullet/case round enough to go into the chamber one more time for firing at the range... no go. I don't have reloading equipment anymore so I can't just resize it. :)

Wynn:)

[jlottmc]

My P45 does that if I don't handle the slide with authority. Push the round back into the chamber or push it down with the slide locked. If it goes down it'll fall the mag well, of it goes back into the chamber, let the slide close, then rack it again with some authoritay.

[Rio Lobo]

.... and can cause over pressure problems. As a rule of thumb, you should only re-chamber a round a couple times before either shooting it or taking it out of use.

Rip: You raised an important safety concern with respect to over-pressure problems. In terms of magnitude -- how much over-pressure would it cause? For example, would it cause a 9mm standard load pressure to then possess pressure potential similar to a 9mm +P or a +P+ -- or, would it be far greater than +P+?

Certainly it depends on how far the setback is, but just how far would/could a quality round in Remington Golden Saber become setback? Would appreciate it if you can be specific on the incremental danger levels, if a round may have been re-chambered perhaps 3, 4, or 5 times.

This impacts our home because every 4-6 weeks, I rotate mags (unload the mag & the chambered round .... reload new mag, re-chamber to check action,) in five SIGs (229/239) placed throughout my house (no kids) for home defense purposes.

Would appreciate all forum contributions if you have documented tests/evidence, etc.

Thanks.....

[jeep45238]

Without some very expensive test equipment, there's no way to give a garanteed answer.

You generally won't find the powder used in some of the higher dollar defensive ammo on the shelf for reloading, which makes it pretty dang impossible to look up a load, and look at the cartridge OAL.

Generally speaking, cartidges that are more resistant to this have a crimp in the middle of the case behind the bullet, reducing how far rearward it can move.

[Bawanna]

True. Years ago I had alot of contact with several powder companies while trying to build some accurate loads in a TC Contender 30-30. I got a hold of a great fella at Winchester who was patient and symathetic with me. He explained that the factory ammo was actually loaded with a blend of several powders. He wasn't allowed to tell me what they were and went on to say that there was no way I could mix a small quantity and they mixed hundreds of pounds at a time. I even tried to pursuade him to send me a couple pounds of the already blended powder but he couldn't pull it off.
I was able to match but not improve on winchester factory loads.

Bottom line is if a bullet looks like it's set back, set it aside and replace it. Why take the chance.

[ripley16]

Rip: You raised an important safety concern with respect to over-pressure problems. In terms of magnitude -- how much over-pressure would it cause? For example, would it cause a 9mm standard load pressure to then possess pressure potential similar to a 9mm +P or a +P+ -- or, would it be far greater than +P+?

Certainly it depends on how far the setback is, but just how far would/could a quality round in Remington Golden Saber become setback? Would appreciate it if you can be specific on the incremental danger levels, if a round may have been re-chambered perhaps 3, 4, or 5 times.

This impacts our home because every 4-6 weeks, I rotate mags (unload the mag & the chambered round .... reload new mag, re-chamber to check action,) in five SIGs (229/239) placed throughout my house (no kids) for home defense purposes.

Would appreciate all forum contributions if you have documented tests/evidence, etc.

Thanks.....

There is a huge amount of discussion concerning setback, still some disagreement on the topic. Here is one of the more common and referenced web available pages on this topic.

The Gun Zone -- Glock Model 22 kB! (http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/setback.html)

...which then links to this...

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/kb-notes.html#a3

I think it prudent to err on the side of caution with regards to ammo handling practices.

[MW surveyor]

If you are really concerned about this, buy a caliper (either digital or dial), measure the new unchambered rounds, log the measurement on the box or other and this becomes your standard. Then after reloading your SD or other rounds a few times, measure again and compare from your "standard". OR you could just mark the first round of your SD in the mag/chamber and rotate in progression.

[Rio Lobo]

Many thanks Jeep, Bawanna, rip and surv.

I know it was a tough question insofar as how much setback is too much. I will research the links, rip. And, I'll measure the OAL on all the affected cartridges surv. Jeep, I don't see a visible crimp on the shell case of the Golden Sabres as I have seen on Federal, Speer and some others (naturally :mad:).

Would any of you make a SWAG as to how much setback would be insignificant? (e.g. -- .001-.003 or .001-.007)???

Thanks again for your expertise.

[Bawanna]

MW is on the right track and that would certainly work. Usually you can easily tell just looking that the bullet has been pushed back. You can also just take a round out of the mag and compare it side by side to the round that's been chambered. If it's noticeable and 1000's of an inch wont be and shouldn't be a concern but fractions of an inch should and could be a concern.

A bullet will sometimes go the other way as one of my officers did a few months back. The bullet pulled a bit and eventually got caught in the barrel lands. He went to clean or reload or something and came to me saying his gun was full of glitter. He'd never seen gunpowder before.........

It's also one of those deals where one cartridge can be chambered a 100 times without any setback or movement, a good factory crimp, things just lined up right. Another may set back in 1 or 2 cycles, you just never know.

I just rotate out the carry mag when I get to the range or every other time when I'm poor which is most of the time.

[Rio Lobo]

Thanks Bawanna. Good advice, ...I know. I've got too many guns to keep track of. Beyond the home defense guns, ...our carry weapons, BUG alternates, warm/cold weather guns, range guns, fun guns, sweet shooting guns, hunting.....etc. etc. They're like children....they're all favorites and more just show up. No excuse, good problem to have. I'll get it done.

BTW, thanks most of all for the dry humor you often inject into many of these threads. IMO, you should do it more. It helps to keep the rest of us sane in a deteriorating world. Not sure we can return the favor though. Maybe you could re-read some of your past humor ....compile them into a book.... Sell books, buy more guns. :D

Anyway, ...thanks and keep it coming.

[Bawanna]

Thanks Bawanna. Good advice, ...I know. I've got too many guns to keep track of. Beyond the home defense guns, ...our carry weapons, BUG alternates, warm/cold weather guns, range guns, fun guns, sweet shooting guns, hunting.....etc. etc. They're like children....they're all favorites and more just show up. No excuse, good problem to have. I'll get it done.

BTW, thanks most of all for the dry humor you often inject into many of these threads. IMO, you should do it more. It helps to keep the rest of us sane in a deteriorating world. Not sure we can return the favor though. Maybe you could re-read some of your past humor ....compile them into a book.... Sell books, buy more guns. :D

Anyway, ...thanks and keep it coming.

Gosh darn thats a might fine idea if only I knew what you were talking about. I guess I could write a book if I could think of something to write about. Maybe Jocko could be my editor. Wynn could be a technical advisor. Course since you thunk it up you could be Wally, (sorry about your ma there Wally). Wynns avatar could be the beaver. We could get Jlott some crayons and he could do the pictures. Dietrich could just be himself a character in the extreme. What about my dad ODell? Dang this book writing stuff involves some heavy thinking. I already got the makings of an Advil moment and I ain't even started yet.

Seriously, oh I forgot I don't do serious but thank you, I'm sure some don't care for me much, mostly Glocktalk transients I think. I'm sure I'd be tarred and feathered in the first 10 minutes if I went over there.

[jlottmc]

How'd I get drug into this? I could pirate some of my daughters crayons, but it would still look like she drew the pictures though.

[Bawanna]

How'd I get drug into this? I could pirate some of my daughters crayons, but it would still look like she drew the pictures though.

Actually that was part of my plan. I figured your daughter could probably draw better pictures than any of us could. I'd of course spring for one of the really big nice boxes of crayons with the built in sharpener of course. Do they even still make those?