Kahr PM9 Redesign ??? [Archive]

Stringer

10-25-2010, 08:08 PM

Hi, after much research I decided I'm going to buy a pm9. Pouring over various info across the web and found this - "Be informed that a new version of the Kahr PM9 was released 3 weeks ago - October 1. This version is said to have resolved many of the current issues being experienced by PM9 owners. You can identify the new Kahr, PM-9093 by it's new design - with a beveled front end. Manufacturer's cost to dealers has gone up $15 to $20, depending on volume, so this will be reflected in your purchase price. Online, the new Kahr's should be available in the $630 range for low, and at your local gunshop, it will be closer to $780 plus tax. Good luck and happy shooting."

Is this true, a new design? I planned on purchasing in the next couple days. I guess I'll have to make sure I get a beveled front end? :confused:

http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=23389

gb6491

10-25-2010, 11:36 PM

jocko

10-26-2010, 04:33 AM

Stringer

10-27-2010, 11:40 AM

Bawanna

10-27-2010, 11:47 AM

Way to get r dun Stringer. You rock. Sometimes it's nice to get solid information straight from the source.
Maybe we could get some pics of Melanie? Just so we know who we're talking to ya know what I mean Vern?

deadhead1971

10-27-2010, 02:02 PM

remember my thread on the spring? The PM9s have longer recoil springs now.

Seahawk60

10-29-2010, 05:57 PM

"There was a cosmetic change to the slide. There is no difference in the functionality. They made the slide a hair longer to add a more defined beveling to the front of the slide. You would have to order from a dealer who then would order threw there distributor.
Thank You,
Melanie"

melanie.herbert@kahr.com

Good Lord, someone needs to school Miss Melanie on spelling if she's going to be interacting with the public as a customer rep... :eek:

So, they made the PM9 BIGGER (even if it's just a "hair") purely for cosmetics and NOT functionality? :rolleyes:

Seahawk60

10-29-2010, 06:02 PM

New version???Hunn, sure sounds like alot of B. S. to me, wonder what all the "current" issues were that is now resolved also.

someone is pulling your leg stinger.
that tap[ered side has been seen or other model kahrs months and months ago. If there is a new model I would think they would have a new model number,as fas as cosmetic changes, gun companies do that all the time. Some like the tapered look, some also like the other style..

Lets see now, isn't glock on their 3rd generation model but yet same model number??? these companies including gun companies do this stuff all the time...

Glock is on their 4th gen with some models...with the same model numbers. And, if you know anything about Glocks, the changes go far beyond simple cosmetics.

Also, a model number is, sometimes, not the same thing as a "model number". How many different "model numbers" are there for the SAME PM9? There's several...

ritky

10-31-2010, 12:23 AM

Apparently the one I picked up about a month ago was the redesigned version. Sorry for the crappy cell phone picture.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll256/ritky/photo.jpg

BroncoAZ

11-01-2010, 08:56 PM

Glock is on their 4th gen with some models...with the same model numbers. And, if you know anything about Glocks, the changes go far beyond simple cosmetics.

Also, a model number is, sometimes, not the same thing as a "model number". How many different "model numbers" are there for the SAME PM9? There's several...

The problem with Glock is lately they keep making their guns worse with each subsequent generation. The Gen 2 guns were an improvement functionally over the gen 1, but the third, RTF1, RTF2, and Gen 4 are not an improvement. The Gen 3 finger grooves are too close together and ruined a great grip feel, the RTF guns are horrid, both in look and feel, and the Gen 4 dual recoil spring setup makes the gun slower to return to battery than the previous models while adding a very lame backstrap system.

erice303

11-01-2010, 10:11 PM

can anyone conferm how much longer the slide is ( the pictures look like 1/8-1/4 of an inch)? Does the new version use the same barrel?

BroncoAZ

11-01-2010, 10:37 PM

Comparing mine to the picture it looks like maybe 1/8" longer. Hopefully it won't be enough to effect how it fits in a holster. Looking at the new compared to my old sexy DLC one I'm not sure I care for their improvement.

OldLincoln

11-01-2010, 10:49 PM

Looking at the new compared to my old sexy DLC one I'm not sure I care for their improvement.
What???!!! Bet you didn't like the Ford Edsel either.

Seahawk60

11-01-2010, 10:55 PM

Looking at the new compared to my old sexy DLC one I'm not sure I care for their improvement.

I can't say I'm too fond of the new look, either. It makes it look like the cheaper CW9 with the beveled front of the slide.

I got my new "factory cut down" PM9 recoil spring. Looks like they cut on 2.5 coils instead of the one the Kahr factory rep said I should do via email. If anyone cares, I can post pics comparing it next to a brand new "new" PM9 recoil spring/guide rod assembly.

jocko

11-02-2010, 12:04 AM

can anyone conferm how much longer the slide is ( the pictures look like 1/8-1/4 of an inch)? Does the new version use the same barrel?

gonna guess, probalby a 1/4" longer and yes it would have to have a different length barrel. I personally do not like the new style on the pM9. I would guess were gonna see that also on the PM40. I just don't understand why you made a ultra compact PM9 FOOKING BIGGER!!!!:crazy::crazy:

jocko

11-02-2010, 12:08 AM

I can't say I'm too fond of the new look, either. It makes it look like the cheaper CW9 with the beveled front of the slide.

I got my new "factory cut down" PM9 recoil spring. Looks like they cut on 2.5 coils instead of the one the Kahr factory rep said I should do via email. If anyone cares, I can post pics comparing it next to a brand new "new" PM9 recoil spring/guide rod assembly.

MY POINT HERE TO. FACTORY CUT RECOIL SPRING> Now what is the owners of probably over a 100,000 OLD STYLE PM9 going to know what and how to order a set of new recoil springs or recoil rod assembly, as no doubt the recoil assembly and extra springs for the NEW STYLE SLIDE are going to be different. It just makes no fooking sense to this ol timer.

Needless to say it really pisses me off. KAHR, IF IT AN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!!!!!!:crazy:

Bawanna

11-02-2010, 09:32 AM

MY POINT HERE TO. FACTORY CUT RECOIL SPRING> Now what is the owners of probably over a 100,000 OLD STYLE PM9 going to know what and how to order a set of new recoil springs or recoil rod assembly, as no doubt the recoil assembly and extra springs for the NEW STYLE SLIDE are going to be different. It just makes no fooking sense to this ol timer.

Needless to say it really pisses me off. KAHR, IF IT AN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!!!!!!:crazy:

Jocko, get on your bike and get some wind on your face. Watch out for dairy products, clear your mind. Don't be gone too long.
We'll get thru this. I'm told change that does not kill us makes us stronger. Yeah I know, I did'nt fooking buy it either.

johnh

11-02-2010, 11:54 AM

Bawanna

11-02-2010, 12:08 PM

Thanks so much John. As usual you rock! It's nice to get some straight factual injection into some of these discussions.
The .5 return rate is a bit hard to swallow but it is what it is and who am I to dispute that. There's certainly a ton of them out there.
I constantly remind myself that we're sharing opinions usually and not always 100% factual information.
I think the information we share is always meant well but sometimes just like the game you mention a lot gets lost in translation. Little bits of misinformation snowball into huge completely false propaganda.
So nobody take anything I say as fact. Like I told Taxi earlier, I share what I think to be truth. I have zero ego to support and will be the very first to admit when I haven't a clue but am guessing which sadly may be more often than not.

ok bye.

OldLincoln

11-02-2010, 02:02 PM

Thanks John, Can we quote your .5 number and some text? Like to be able to say "According to Kahr...". It's not this forum but I'm defending Kahr in other forums also. That's part of why I want to get all the getting started stuff together for easy linking.

What's difficult to defend is customer service. They don't have to give away the store but they can get their facts straight and support their products. It'd hard to have credibility when you say the guns are great but service comes up short.

Popeye

11-02-2010, 03:27 PM

I think the redesign of the slide is a non issue. If it makes holstering easier I'm all for it. As far as I'm concerned Kahr makes a darned fine pistol.
As far as the rest of the stuff that goes on the net, smart people and people who have been around can read thorough allot of the false facts and BS that goes on about any brand. I've heard bad stories about the Kel Tec P3at the XD9SC the RIA GI45 the Bersa Thunder .380 and the Kahr PM9. I own everyone of those brands and have found everyone of them to be a very nice reliable pistol in there price range. I guess you can tell I'm not a brand snob by that list. Which leads me to believe that many times it's not the pistol but the person operating the pistol that needs a little working on.:D JMHO

Thanks John.

Seahawk60

11-02-2010, 03:52 PM

First, the failure rates discussed here are completely false.

What discussed "failure rates here"? I didn't seen anything of the sort in this thread. My old PM9 worked fine. I wanted a replacement spring/guide rod assembly. Kahr sent me one that was incorrect and wouldn't work. They sent me another new shorter "cut down" one. End of story.

Second, the taper on the nose was added at the request of LEA customers, for better holster compatibility. If you wear a holster a bunch, you will know that even slight tapering on the nose of a pistol greatly helps to smooth insertion into the holster.This has been known for a LONG time and incorporated in many other pistol designs. Why the sudden "breaking dawn" on the issue with Kahr? Are they going to change every other pistol as well since this, apparently, is such a *must have* feature all of the sudden?

Bawanna

11-02-2010, 04:13 PM

Easy, easy big guy, your getting all overwrought and worked up over nothing. Take off your shoes and walk in the grass barefoot, pick a few dandelions and smell them. It's all perfectly fine and good today. (So far)
Be happy, you talk like them fellas over at Glocktalk all serious and ready to rip each other's throats out.
I'll give ya item 1, I did'nt see no mention of failure rate either but JohnH's information I'm sure is sound, so we didn't lose anything and we gained some.
Given that the people with the .5 failure rate I'm sure are not happy campers. Yours works fine so another happy day for you.
Ease up dude, think positive, you'll live alot longer and maybe not experience road rage everytime you get in a car. (like me).
Item two, if they change em all that's ok, we'll buy or we won't, if they don't change anymore that's ok too, we'll buy or we won't.
It's all good. Repeat after me, it's all good. I like myself, it's all good.
Now I'll just slip on the flak jacket and fire proof suit before I hit the submit button. It's all really good.

Seahawk60

11-02-2010, 05:09 PM

Easy, easy big guy, your getting all overwrought and worked up over nothing.

Whatever. :rolleyes: They're still valid questions.

Bawanna

11-02-2010, 05:39 PM

Wow, thanks man your right. I expected alot worse, a real chewing.
Whenever my wife says "whatever" I usually try to sleep with my head and torso in one of those heavy plastic garbage cans so she can't beat me to death with a baseball bat in my sleep. Safety first ya know.

Riccardo

11-03-2010, 12:17 AM

Welcome to the forums!
I haven't heard or read of a new version of the PM9093 being released (other than the MA compliant version).
Here's the contact page for Kahr: Kahr Arms | Contact us (http://www.kahr.com/contact.html) ; they should be able to give you a definitive answer.

Personally, I think riccardo is blowing smoke during the entirety of his first and (currently) only post on the forum you linked to.

Regards,
Greg

Ouch. That's mean. I wasn't trying to blow smoke. I'm not even an Illinois resident. I just saw the post after googling 'Kahr PM9' and happened to have first hand knowledge of the redesigned gun. So let me clarify in my first, and hopefully not last post here.

First, I've seen the new PM9 next to the old one. The new one is redesigned. It is slightly longer. I would say about a 1/4 inch, if not a little more. If you folks don't believe me, just take a look at the picture someone else posted on this thread and compare it to a pic of an older Kahr. The tip of the barrel is obviously longer, especially where it juts forward from the polymer frame. I've been told by a 'good' shooter, that there is a little more distance between the front and rear sights, making it a little more accurate.

The new Kahr is MUCH smoother in and out of a draw. The front is beveled, as is the slide stop lever. The old Kahr's slide stop is squared at the rear, where the new one is rounded and angles down into the gun. These improvements mean they are a lot less likely to get snagged in a pocket.

With the new Kahrs, it's noticeably harder to rack back the slide. When you use the slide release to chamber a round, the snap is louder and more positive. It is my opinion (and only an opinion) that this was done to address the ftf problems Kahr's had in the past.

Anyway, just trying to contribute. I think anyone else who has seen them side by side would agree with me.

Riccardo

11-03-2010, 12:19 AM

:

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll256/ritky/photo.jpg

http://www.chuckhawks.com/kahr_pm9.gif

Do your own comparison. The differences are MUCH easier to see in person, but you can kind of make out the beveling and increased length in these pics. Look at where the barrel protrudes from the black polymer grip. In person, it is easy to see how much further it sticks out...somewhat visible here. It's tough to see how the barrel slants inward at the end instead of squares off, but it is noticeable.

Note that the front sight sits farther forward on the new model. On the old model, the front sight sits behind the edge of the polymer frame, while on the new one, the front sight extends out in front of the polymer frame...a significant improvement. Also note, which I forgot to mention earlier, that the rear sights are flattened now instead of slightly pointed. Another improvement to make them smoother out of the pocket.

Riccardo

11-03-2010, 12:28 AM

New version???Hunn, sure sounds like alot of B. S. to me, wonder what all the "current" issues were that is now resolved also.

someone is pulling your leg stinger.
that tap[ered side has been seen or other model kahrs months and months ago. If there is a new model I would think they would have a new model number,as fas as cosmetic changes, gun companies do that all the time. Some like the tapered look, some also like the other style..

Lets see now, isn't glock on their 3rd generation model but yet same model number??? these companies including gun companies do this stuff all the time...

As Stringer has verified, Kahr themselves have stated that they have made changes to the PM9 for the new October 1st model. And you are incorrect about them changing the model number. Several states have 'approved' lists of guns legal for purchase. Manufacturers will not change model numbers just because they have made improvements or minor re-designs. It would force them to re-enter the approval process to have these 'new' guns on the market. And I think you are wrong to think thease are 'cosmetic' only upgrades. These improvements are significant for a 'pocket' pistol, making it easier to draw without snagging and slightly longer for improved accuracy.

gb6491

11-03-2010, 01:07 AM

Riccardo,
Welcome to the forums.:hippie::)
Regards,
Greg

johnh

11-03-2010, 07:00 AM

In response to the question about posting .5% elsewhere, I would say you can do that. I posted it here, and the folks at Kahr told me it was fine. I made sure to double-check my info before posting. I also want to stress again that with any gun maker, many guns are returned that are absolutely problem free. The buyer perhaps used poor quality ammo, did not understand how to use the firearm, expected something different than what they got (such as smaller groups), and so forth. You know the old saying, a poor craftsman blames his tools. That applies in to shooters, and we have all seen that happen I suspect.

Also the length increase I posted is correct. I cannot say why a person would perceive it as longer, but remember this is not guess work on Kahr's part. The guns are made on computer controlled milling machines. The increase in length is a precise measurement input into the equipment when the components are produced. So if Kahr says .1 inch, they are not guessing.

John

Riccardo

11-03-2010, 10:47 AM

Okay guys, time for a fact injection into this discussion. :)

First, the failure rates discussed here are completely false. It is important to remember that the PM9 is Kahr's number one selling pistol. You can see that reflected on the forum when you look at the most popular tags. The PM9 is always one of the top two. I know from a very reliable source that the return rate on PM9s has been FAR LOWER than .5%. Not FIVE percent, but point FIVE. That includes any possible returns for any reason, including order issues unrelated to the product. We all know that many guns return to manufacturers that have absolutely nothing wrong with them.

Second, the taper on the nose was added at the request of LEA customers, for better holster compatibility. If you wear a holster a bunch, you will know that even slight tapering on the nose of a pistol greatly helps to smooth insertion into the holster.

Third, to make up for the lost slide mass, the slide (and by necessity the barrel) lengths were increased by .1 inch. Very, very little, but important in keeping the mass the same for reliable cycling.

Fourth, no price increase.

Please do not believe everything you read on gun blogs and forums. This stuff gets circulating and becomes much like the telegraph/phone game my daughter plays in Kindergarten. You know, where they sit in a row and the first person tells the second something, then the second passes it to the third, etc. By the time it gets to the end, the story has very little to do with how it started. I would venture to say sometimes the little kids are better at keeping the facts straight than adults on the Internet. ;)

Hope that helps guys!

John

Hi John,

I agree with you...I've spoke with kahr reps and they say lots (the majority) of people send their guns back and Kahr is able to find no discernible problem. And being the great company that they are, they usually polish it up and send it back out. They predict it is a limp wrist, incompatible ammo, improperly loading magazines, etc. But even Kahr will not say .5%. I'm wondering where you got that stat because dealer sales will directly contradict you. Maybe they believe that .5% of the actual guns have problems, with another percentage being magazine problems (uneven feed) and another percent being springs, etc. But "problems" in general..back to the manufacturer for problems real or imagined definitely exceeds .5%. I can tell you that just from what I have seen come back personally, and I hope you will acknowledge that.

But since this is an informational forum, I think to maintain its credibility, we need to be honest about the fact that the Kahr PM9 does have its problems, occassional as they may be. This is one of the reasons for the manufacturer recommended break in period. It is well documented with a simple Google search or even multiple videos on Youtube...for ANYONE to quickly search out. For us to deny this would make Kahrtalk a less reliable source of information.

Riccardo

11-03-2010, 10:55 AM

Also the length increase I posted is correct. I cannot say why a person would perceive it as longer, but remember this is not guess work on Kahr's part. The guns are made on computer controlled milling machines. The increase in length is a precise measurement input into the equipment when the components are produced. So if Kahr says .1 inch, they are not guessing.

John

Please look at the pictures which are not mine, but are freely available on the internet for anyone to find. I know you cannot hold the two guns together to compare as I have, but ask yourself after viewing the difference of how far the barrel sticks out on the left side of the pic beyond the black polymer grip... does this look like .1 inches to you? Regarless, it's silly to argue over your .1 or my .2. but the fact remains that the PM9 has tight tolerances. Please be aware that even a fraction of an inch in slide length will affect performance. I've racked both pistols and the new PM9 is noticeably harder to pull back. Now I didn't break them down and compare the springs, but I have to imagine that with ANY difference in slide length, the springs can no longer be interchangeable. Any gunsmith will tell you the same...you need specific parts to match up with very specific and exacting gun lengths.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/kahr_pm9.gif

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll256/ritky/photo.jpg

Riccardo

11-03-2010, 11:06 AM

And look at the slide stop lever. Can you see how it dovetails on the right side in the newer picture, where it stays rigid to the end on the older pic? Look at the slide lock marker at the bottom of the barrel against the grip - the tiny vertical line engraved onto the barrel. On the newer Kahr, it is at the bottom right of the "9" in the "PM9" moniker. But on the older Kahr, it is well to the right of "PM9" logo. For subcompacts required to function to precise specs, these differences are not easily dismissable. I hate being accused of spreading internet rumors or blowing smoke, when I am simply LOOKING at the old and new guns, side by side, and reporting back what I have found.

And regarding price, PLEASE put me in touch with your dealer sales contact, because if it has not gone up, mine is blowing smoke. Unless you are speaking of Midway or Cabelas. But for the poor pawnshop dealer, price has gone up...if only slightly ($15 or so). And though I hate it, this price is being passed on to the consumer.

But as to future buyers, I would definitely ask my vendor to provide me with the newer Kahr. If you ever end up needing to send it back, and I doubt it since, according to the mods here, you only have a .5% chance (right), I would bet the future of spring replacements will be spec'd to the newer barrel length/weight. Also, you'll get a slightly better shooting pistol, with just a fraction of an inch greater distance between the two sights (.1 or .2 inches in barrel length plus the movement forward of the front sight), and a gun that slips easier in and out of the pocket/holster.

Seahawk60

11-03-2010, 11:25 AM

If you ever end up needing to send it back, and I doubt it since, according to the mods here, you only have a .5% chance (right), I would bet the future of spring replacements will be spec'd to the newer barrel length/weight.

Then simply ask Kahr to send you and "old version" spring. From what they told me AND what I've received in the mail, all they do is cut down the "new" spring for the old gun. Just MAKE sure Kahr understands you have an older PM9 so they don't send you the "new" version as they did with me. No, I haven't tested this "cut down" spring in my 2004 PM9 yet, but I will. And, I'll post results. Kahr had better get this spring thing right (consistently) because there are FAR more "old" PM9s out there than the recently changed version...and they're the ones that are going to be needing the replacement springs for quite some time until the "new" ones catch up...

Also, you'll get a slightly better shooting pistol, with just a fraction of an inch greater distance between the two sights (.1 or .2 inches in barrel length plus the movement forward of the front sight), and a gun that slips easier in and out of the pocket/holster.I'll bet no one even notices a "better shooting" gun. Come on...a .1 inch increase in sight radius/barrel? That's a fingernail clipping. :D

Riccardo

11-03-2010, 11:31 AM

Then simply ask Kahr to send you and "old version" spring. From what they told me AND what I've received in the mail, all they do is cut down the "new" spring for the old gun. Just MAKE sure Kahr understands you have an older PM9 so they don't send you the "new" version as they did with me. No, I haven't tested this "cut down" spring in my 2004 PM9 yet, but I will. And, I'll post results. Kahr had better get this spring thing right (consistently) because there are FAR more "old" PM9s out there than the recently changed version...and they're the ones that are going to be needing the replacement springs for quite some time until the "new" ones catch up...

I'll bet no one even notices a "better shooting" gun. Come on...a .1 inch increase in sight radius/barrel? That's a fingernail clipping. :D

Agreed! But owners need to be aware that they now have an "older" version of the Kahr. I'm personally not happy with simply 'cutting' the springs, because there are also weight/tension issues that should be very specifically measured to exact barrels, but hey, if it gets the job done. It's not as if you life would ever depend on the thing, right? :rolleyes:

And you're probably right about the better shooting. I'm not even good enough to notice the difference between 3 and 4 inches. Unfortunately my wife is. :eek:

garyb

11-03-2010, 11:39 AM

I compared my new PM40 to the photo of the PM9 and did not see any difference which makes me suspect the changes (bevel) is now on the PM40. I don't know what the old ones look like, but the purpose for holstering it seems to make sense and I like it.

Seahawk60

11-03-2010, 12:04 PM

Look at the inch marker at the bottom of the barrel against the grip - the tiny vertical line engraved onto the barrel.

What's an "inch marker"? That's a line-up mark to line up with the mark on the frame to push the slide lock/disassembly pin out.

On the newer Kahr, it is at the bottom right of the "9" in the "PM9" moniker. But on the older Kahr, it is well to the right of "PM9" logo. Not on my older one it isn't. The slide line-up line is exactly below the right-most upper corner of the "9" in PM9.

I just looked at the picture again. The PM9 logo on mine is engraved farther back than that "old" pistol. In fact, both the PM9 and Kahr logos are farther back. The "P" in PM9 on my slide starts right about at the rear of the front sight. And, the "AH" letters in Kahr are directly centered above the slide lock notch, as opposed to the "HR" letters in the picture. Weird...

Seahawk60

11-03-2010, 12:27 PM

Agreed! But owners need to be aware that they now have an "older" version of the Kahr.

I agree with knowing about the differences. I didn't know there was a "new" PM9 and only found out about it when they sent me a spring that was too long. Then again, this started a few months ago so... How long exactly has this "new" PM9 been on the market? Sounds like only 6 months or so...maybe less... At any rate, this was an utter failure on their part since there are FAR more "old" PM9s in the hands of customers. They should be in *DEFAULT* mode now towards the "old" spring as the "new" spring has several years to catch up in the hands of the public. At any rate, they definitely need to ask and PAY attention. Kahr never asked, but I told them several times in my emails I had one made in 2004...and still got the wrong spring...twice. Then I got the "cut it down" email, but I demanded, instead, they send me one properly "cut down", which I just received...hasn't been tested yet. That way, if it isn't reliable they can NOT blame it on me "cutting it down" improperly. And, I kept the email trail for any future reference... If it proves to be reliable then I'll cut the other ones down and I should be set for life on PM9 "old" springs. :cool:

I'm personally not happy with simply 'cutting' the springs, because there are also weight/tension issues that should be very specifically measured to exact barrels, but hey, if it gets the job done. It's not as if you life would ever depend on the thing, right? :rolleyes:

I, too, was less than impressed with the "just cut it down" chewing gum type fix instead of providing a proper spring. I thought the same things about proper spring length versus pre-load, compression strength, etc. If that really *is* supposed to be the "right thing", then just do it at the factory and the customers would never know about this "quick fix" and this discussion/b*tch session would have never been had. If they don't do it the customer will definitely notice something is wrong when they're unable to manually lock the slide back at ALL when the spring is new. And, that's definitely a problem...especially when they tell that person to "just cut it down".

And you're probably right about the better shooting. I'm not even good enough to notice the difference between 3 and 4 inches. Unfortunately my wife is. :eek:Alrighty then... So not gonna go any further on THAT one! :eek: :D

zebraD

11-03-2010, 01:15 PM

If it proves to be reliable then I'll cut the other ones down and I should be set for life on PM9 "old" springs. :cool:

Wait, you have been very clear ( you have posted over and over again) that you did not want to cut the spring yourself and that they should have done that for you. So now that you have several FREE springs from Kahr you can cut down the springs??? Something doesnt add up:confused:

Captain_Cupcake

11-03-2010, 02:09 PM

If it proves to be reliable then I'll cut the other ones down and I should be set for life on PM9 "old" springs. :cool:

I was going to say also that this didn't seem right. If they sent you the wrong spring I am sure they would want the ones that "didn't fit" or ones that needed to be cut back and keeping them would seem wrong :(

Seahawk60

11-03-2010, 02:39 PM

Wait, you have been very clear ( you have posted over and over again) that you did not want to cut the spring yourself and that they should have done that for you. So now that you have several FREE springs from Kahr you can cut down the springs??? Something doesnt add up:confused:

Yes, I did not *want* to cut the springs down myself...because they should have already arrived as a DROP IN replacement. When have you EVER had to modify a stock recoil spring to work in a pistol as it came from the factory? What's your friggin' point? :rolleyes:

Kahr needs to send out the CORRECT springs, whether an entirely different one or a "modified" one, and NOT expect the end user to have to modify it themselves. If you do not understand then reference the modifying a stock spring for a STOCK pistol...do it over and over until you "get it". Comprendes?

Not my fault I have a few TOO LONG spares that *might* work, if cut down, because Kahr sent them unmodified BEFORE sending me the, ahem, "correct" spring. I'm sure as hell not sending them back and waiting again. If this "Kahr cut down" spring works, then why shouldn't I modify the ones I already have? Kahr never asked for them back. No money out of my pocket if those don't work. And, I'll definitely have a legitimate beef with Kahr if their "factory cut" spring doesn't work, either. Can't blame me for that one... :yo:

Seahawk60

11-03-2010, 02:59 PM

I was going to say also that this didn't seem right. If they sent you the wrong spring I am sure they would want the ones that "didn't fit" or ones that needed to be cut back and keeping them would seem wrong :(

Well, they never asked for them back. And, they'd need to send me a padded envelope and a pre-paid Fedex mailing label, too. Believe me, Kahr KNOWS they sent me the wrong ones (i.e. too long) by now...

I ain't payin' to send 'em back... They would have asked, if concerned...and then they could have sent me the envelope and pre-paid postage when I requested it. :D

Riccardo

11-03-2010, 03:39 PM

I was going to say also that this didn't seem right. If they sent you the wrong spring I am sure they would want the ones that "didn't fit" or ones that needed to be cut back and keeping them would seem wrong :(

Naw, that's not Kahr's MO. I've heard of customers who had magazine problems and Kahr just sent them new ones. The customers asked 'where do I send my old mags to?' and Kahr just told them to keep them for parts, use them for plinking or dump them. Just part of their good customer service...trying to make up for customers who have to repeatedly return these firearms.

jocko

11-03-2010, 03:43 PM

I predict this is going to be a real pain in the ass on these recoil springs for the PM9, bieng now that kahr has two different length slides etc. Unless they ask or unless they specify in their manual to order springs for the new style beveled slide, and give a different part #, we are going to get this crap alot. I also feel I should not have to shorten recoil springs when I order them for my PM9. I expect the right length and not a "kit" type spring.

I have stated this to kahr also but it fell on deaf ears. I hate whrt they did to the PM9 now with the logner slide and beveled to boot, What purpose did this serve even?

their manual is outdated to say the least, guys are still getting the original PM9 manual in with their new style slide PM9 ..

I have bitched to much about this already and I am so glad I have a good supply of springs on stock from wolffs. Guy is gonna have to be careful ordering springs from wolffs nows to, for it he has the new style longer slide, wolffs springs will not work.

What a cluster fook!!!!

Seahawk60

11-03-2010, 03:44 PM

And, one more thing... :eek::D

I was just playing around with different spring/guide rod sets and testing the slide lock when I noticed ANOTHER difference when I installed a set I hadn't looked at closely before since I never put it in the pistol.

That guide rod/plunger assembly is longer than the others I have. Long enough that it pokes out the front of the slide, when assembled on the frame, by the thickness of the end cap. The entire plunger/inner guide rod is an eighth of an inch longer and, obviously, not flush with the slide as it should be.

So, whether or not you agree...and I'm sure some won't, I'm trying to help people here with Kahr so they know to specify, now, not only the right (cut down) spring, but also the shorter PM9 guide rod for the vast majority of already-owned pistols. Since there appears to be two different parts now and it's not just the outer spring.

Seahawk60

11-03-2010, 03:45 PM

I predict this is going to be a real pain in the ass on these recoil springs for the PM9, bieng now that kahr has two different length slides etc.

What a cluster fook!!!!

Yup...and it very well may not only be the outer recoil spring, either, as I just discovered. I hope that actually WAS an incorrect part and for another pistol, but it's still something to keep an eye out for...and ask Kahr when ordering a replacement.

This goes both ways, too. New PM9 owners will have to make sure they don't end up with shorter springs and/or guide rods when theirs need replacing down the road...

I also feel I should not have to shorten recoil springs when I order them for my PM9. I expect the right length and not a "kit" type spring.Exactly. Being told to "cut it down" is as about as retarded as ordering two 1911 recoil springs and being sent one long spring. Then being told to cut it in half when you contact "whomever" and ask about it. :rolleyes:

Seahawk60

11-03-2010, 04:06 PM

Naw, that's not Kahr's MO. I've heard of customers who had magazine problems and Kahr just sent them new ones. The customers asked 'where do I send my old mags to?' and Kahr just told them to keep them for parts, use them for plinking or dump them. Just part of their good customer service...trying to make up for customers who have to repeatedly return these firearms.

Good on Kahr. It really isn't good "relations" for a company to expect customers to send incorrect/malfunctioning parts back, on their own time...and especially on their own dime... Just easier to "let it go" with the parts (unless they're obviously mucho expensive or something), which is exactly what they seem to do...