P380 Mag Dropping Free?

[Rustynuts]

OK, SEVERAL times when firing a single box I had the mag come loose. Didn't drop completely out, but dropped down a bit and naturally didn't feed next round. I am positive they were engaged fully with the mag catch and I am not hitting the release! (I'm a lefty and with my trigger finger on the trigger it kind of pulls everything away from the release button) There seems to be very tight tolerances with the catch lever so it can get around the bullet noses.

Note I never had this problem before I put the mag extensions on! I can do some more tests without them to verify. I posted in the other thread that my magwells seem to have too much tolerance and the tiny pressure on the extension with my pinky seems to actually move the mag backwards at the bottom slightly. Could this slight movement cause the mag catch are to move forward and then cause the bullets to hit the catch? Similar to my problem with rounds hitting the lockback?

[hanick]

I do not know if this is related. I accidently dropped a mag and then it failed to go in or drop easily.I thought it was defective. I pressed in the button, slid off the base and it worked perfectly. I think when i dropped it it got all twisted. FWIW.
H

[Rustynuts]

When I said "drop" I don't mean I dropped it on the ground. It dropped free from the mag catch. ;)

[rpc]

Just bought new k-40, same thing is happing. I own a cw-9 and p-9 over 400 rounds no problems. I will be calling Kahr Mon. morning!

[jocko]

OK, SEVERAL times when firing a single box I had the mag come loose. Didn't drop completely out, but dropped down a bit and naturally didn't feed next round. I am positive they were engaged fully with the mag catch and I am not hitting the release! (I'm a lefty and with my trigger finger on the trigger it kind of pulls everything away from the release button) There seems to be very tight tolerances with the catch lever so it can get around the bullet noses.

Note I never had this problem before I put the mag extensions on! I can do some more tests without them to verify. I posted in the other thread that my magwells seem to have too much tolerance and the tiny pressure on the extension with my pinky seems to actually move the mag backwards at the bottom slightly. Could this slight movement cause the mag catch are to move forward and then cause the bullets to hit the catch? Similar to my problem with rounds hitting the lockback?

again do some testing without the extension on the magazine. If it works OK, then it has to be the extension causing it. IMO just do away with the extension

U could call kahr and ask for another magazine catch to see if that helps also..

[RagnarD]

I have had the same issue 3 times with my new PM9. I'm also fairly certain that I am not hitting the button. I haven't modified any of my mags, but it has only happened thus far with the 7 & 8 round mags, which protrude one or two rounds outside the mag well. The flush 6 round hasn't had an issue yet.

[Rustynuts]

RagnarD, do your extended mags move a little backwards from the finger pressure below the magwell (or do you touch that area with those pistols)? I'm thinking the magwells are slightly out of tolerance too large.

[Rustynuts]

May have found the issue. Shot today and upon the first mag drop, I found the follower was right at the window for the catch. Looked at the follower and found gouging! So instead of hitting rounds (or in addition to) the catch is gouging up the follower. Probably causing the catch to bounce release. I'll file the follower down and slightly touch up the catch itself. If that fails, back to calling Kahr.

Pics of right front of both followers showing gouging from Mag catch. Did both with and w/o flash.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t67/Krustyboomer/Picture008.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t67/Krustyboomer/Picture009.jpg

[jocko]

nice job of trouble shooting. Even if that doesn't solve the issue, it should not do that and filing/smoothing down that area won't hurt a thing either. That definitely cold cause premature mag dropping at certain round count. Just makes sense. We forum people should try to remember that when a poster comes here with a similar issue.


again, nice job..

[Bawanna]

I don't recall who it was but one of us had a similar issue awhile back and he reduced the mag catch itself strategically and carefully so it didn't interfere with the mag followers.
That would be a nice final approach as then you'd not have to worry if you got new mags or replaced followers which would bring this issue right back again.
Or again perhaps Kahr would just send ya a new catch if you emailed and sent those pictures along. They'd recognize the issue right away. That way you could mess with the old one and not worry if you goofed or went too far. I have total faith in ya though, just go easy and slow and make it work.

[jocko]

best to buy an extra mag catch and then start to reduce it to test out. I thought ol wyn found this issue also and solved it by reducing the mag catch. I think I would try to reduce the followers first, It to me seems easier to do and should take very little filing to.

[Rustynuts]

Shot about 100-rds today to find that issue. Good thing is my slidestop problem seems to be fixed now from shaving it down. Had no premature lockbacks OR no lockbacks on empty. This was running one mag stock and one mag with extension. So just need this follower deal done and the gun will be good to go. Already filed the followers and the catch. Just need to test.

I've also noticed the very lip of the catch seems to be peening a little after the last two sessions (I took it out of the frame to get a really good look). Kind of forming a small lip or sharp edge. Hopefully that will stop now that it's filed down. I can only assume that comes from some force downward on the catch from the hole in the mag. The only way I can see any real downward force on the mag catch is from the firing action somehow. The mag spring putting stress on the catch would seem to be minimal.

[wyntrout]

I had thought that "scalloping" the protruding mag catch... center only... would stop any binding there by the follower or the mag spring. I left plenty of bearing area for the mag retention slot, and mag retention or release was never a problem. This didn't help my random premature slide lock-backs before empty magazine, though, and the pistol went back to Kahr CS who replaced the slide lock spring and polished the slide lock. I haven't had a problem with that since.
Wynn:)

[Rustynuts]

Well my efforts made it worse. Just took a little off both the follower and mag catch. Really just soothed the gouges out and took the peening lip off the mag catch. Fired about 5-6 mags worth and had a mag drop alost every other shot. One mag dropped four in a row and the other dropped three times in a row. So it's definitely not just happening at the follower.

[Rustynuts]

I had thought that "scalloping" the protruding mag catch... center only... would stop any binding there by the follower or the mag spring. I left plenty of bearing area for the mag retention slot, and mag retention or release was never a problem. This didn't help my random premature slide lock-backs before empty magazine, though, and the pistol went back to Kahr CS who replaced the slide lock spring and polished the slide lock. I haven't had a problem with that since.
Wynn:)

Did you have to pay for that service or was it covered after you scalloped the catch? If you see my post of their CS, you'll see how they screwed me (or are they?!).

[jocko]

get a new mag catch. sometimes they look identical but most of the time a new catch seems to solve the issue..I stillthink u did the right thing wokingon the follower to. there should not be those hard rub marks on that follower form the magazine catch, IMO. I am assuming both magazines are acting the same way???


PM sent.

[Rustynuts]

Yes, so unless BOTH mags are borked. They both have the gouges, drop when shooting, and I've tried them with w/o the grip extension. The problem has to be in the gun, not the mags. In the few rounds I shot today, it's hard to tell if the follower gouging is coming back or not

[Rustynuts]

Replaced the mag catch, ran 100-rds through and though it might be OK. last mag had another drop. http://www.***********/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif Might have been a bad seating, so have to try again. However, the mags didn't start dropping until about 100-rds when new as well. POS.

Nice of Kahr to allow us to do THEIR quality control for them, esp. with expensive 380 ammo. http://www.***********/forums/images/smilies/icon_evil.gif

Here's a pic of the mag catch after 100-rds. You can already see the edge peening. This is what most likely caused the follower gouging before. Crappy metal, heat treating, design?

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t67/Krustyboomer/Picture011.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t67/Krustyboomer/Picture013.jpg

[RagnarD]

Sorry I haven't been keeping up gents.

In response to the Q, yes, there is some play in my magazines, but nothing more than I would expect.

My problem has now become extremely consistent: after firing the last round of the magazine, the magazine drops. It occurs everytime, but only with extended mags, not the 6 round. The slide will lock back about 50% of the time, even when the mag drops.

I'll be calling Kahr here soon, but I'm crazy short on time these days, so we'll see how it goes.