K9 slide won't lock back

[PistolPilot]

Forgive me if this has been addressed before, but I did my due diligence with the search function and came up empty.

I just picked up a K9 on trade (old style slide, AH02xx serial number).

When I was inspecting the gun, the previous owner pointed out that the slide did not lock back with the standard 7rd magazine, but the extended 8rd did. Being a CCW gun, I want to use the 7rd'er.

In playing around with the mag, I found that if I flipped the spring, it worked. However, if I loaded a few rounds and cycled them through, it wouldn't lock back. I swapped out the follower from the 8rd, and it functioned properly. I went ahead and purchased a new 7rd magazine, as well as a new spring to fix the 7rd'er I already had. I did not buy another follower; I'm still using the one from the 8rd'er.

I've taken it to the range a few times, but the slide WILL NOT lock back after shooting the last round. I'm finding now that cycling a few rounds through by hand leads to a slide lock only about 50% of the time, regardless of which magazine I use (the new or the "salvaged" one). Also, if I cycle the last round and fail to get a slide lock, I can drop the mag, reseat it, and it will lock back when I retract the slide the next time.

I've also read a few comments about verifying the condition of the slide lock spring, but it's hard to compare mine to the small thumbnail on the Kahr Shop parts list. Is there a higher resolution picture somewhere on the web?

What should I try next? Is it possible I have 3 bad followers? Weak mag springs? Is the slide lock spring the culprit?

[ripley16]

It isn't unheard of for the slide stop spring to be damaged by improper assembly. It's a cheap and easy fix. I suggest that is your culprit as a new mag should work and have no follower problems..

The other possibility is a worn or damaged slide stop, allowing the slide to ride over it.

[wyntrout]

Well, IF the slide stop hasn't been adjusted(altered by filing or stoning, etc.), it can be several things... worn or out of tolerance follower... ditto the spring, or the free top end of the spring is not to the front, giving a bit more lift.
It could be that the screw that holds the slide lock washer and spring in place is loose. DON'T OVERtighten that tiny screw... it's into plastic. The fix for that is a new frame! If that screw is loose or the spring is bent/warped where it engages the groove just inside the slide lock on the pin, then the slide lock can move out a bit and change everything, causing lots of problems... one of which is slide locks... premature or more probably lack of lock back.
I'll put a link to the post about this in a second. It pertains to all polymer models with only a difference in the Torx screw size:

DON'T OVERTIGHTEN that tiny screw into the plastic... just until there's resistance... is what I was told by Kahr CS.

The link with pictures:

http://kahrtalk.com/p-cw-series-pistols/2774-new-380-same-issues.html#post29719

Wynn:)

[jocko]

he is talking about the K9 guys not a polymer. There is no slide lock spring like we see oin the polymer gun. I have never heard of a slide lock spring going bad on a K9. It is on the inside of the metal frame on the right side. It never gets weak. U never mess with that spring either.

First thing I would replace is the recoil springs. It is all about timeing and that should be the first thing to try. I would order frojm kahr also a new follower and from wolffs a set of 5% more strength magazine springs. Be surprise what they will do for a gun. I have a K9 and I run the wolffs 20# recoil springs in mine. Facdtory weight is 18#. wolffs sells either.

[Bawanna]

Its a K9 Wynn, no tupperware on this one. I gotta go tear my K40 apart, I can't even remember what the heck it looks like but I'm thinking it's got the spring in the far right side unlike the PM's and it shouldn't go bad.
I shall ponder this, got a darn headache and my undersize brain just isn't working at capacity at the moment.

[Bawanna]

Didn't mean to echo Jocko, must have hit the submit button at the same time but since we said the same damn thing and he has a more fully functioning brain I suspect he's onto something.

[jocko]

It isn't unheard of for the slide stop spring to be damaged by improper assembly. It's a cheap and easy fix. I suggest that is your culprit as a new mag should work and have no follower problems..

The other possibility is a worn or damaged slide stop, allowing the slide to ride over it.

is impossable to imprperly put the slide stop lever back in a K9 and damage the slide stop spring. I know you guys are thinking of the polymer models and not the all steel K9

[wyntrout]

Doh! I was trying to do yard work and get this done fast and missed that bit.

THAT's why there's a chunk cut out of the slide stop pin... so it can get under the spring on the other side... you do have one... correct? I don't play with my K9 that much... it doesn't give me problems. :)

Dang! Without the slide, when I tapped that darn pin out, off it went to the floor and under an end table. MY magnet thingy comes in handy now and then. Now I need some oil, that thing came back with friends... a dust bunny and hair... yech!

That's a whole different set up... the spring puts rotational tension on the slanted cut part of the pin to cause torsion... different.

The follower, the magazine spring and the slide lock... the bearing part for the magazine follower and the part that holds the slide back... are they in good shape?

That's all I can think of by looking at mine. I gotta get cracking here... run get some lottery tickets and get ready for the ghosts and goblins... or the little Baracks and Michelles... or Christina O'Donnel... whichever was the witch and so forth.

Happy Halloween... be extra careful with CCW! No oopsies... my bad!:eek:

Wynn:D

[PistolPilot]

It's a brand new recoil spring. Bought two of them along with the mag and mag spring, knowing they've got to be changed every couple thousand rounds.

The slide stop does have the notch to catch the spring, and it does when inserted. The slide stop itself seems to be in good shape.

I should also add that when the slide doesn't lock back on the last round, the mag will hang up when I hit the release. If I pull it out, reseat it, and lock the slide back, the mag falls freely. Is that the little metal tab on the follower slipping off the slide stop?

[jocko]

exactly right why that chunk is out of the right side of the slide lock pin. IMO there is just nothing there to cause an issue. either the slide lock spring is broke or it works. It just can't wear out. Indeed the spring puts rotational tension on the slide lock lever and again the only thing that lifts the slide lock leve rupward is the magazine follower, which is the magazine spring is strong enough on the last round to do that and the recoil springs are not causing a mis timing event, it should lock open. Anothe reason why I do like the 20# recoil spring in my K9. My thoughts are that it just slows down that slide enough for the follower to pick up that slide lock lever without possably the slide going bck to battery to fast and actually overriding the slide stop lever as it is coming upward. Just my theory, but K9 just normaly don't have slide locking issues.

Another reason why I do like the 5% more magazine strength to, It is not much indeed but IMO it might just be doing a better job on that last round where the spring is now at it's weakest position. anyhow all of the above works for me in my K9, course I never ha done issue before either but just went to those little heavier springs because I thought they would be better. Wolffs really does good testing of heavier poundage recoil spring.

I wish the would make the kahr magazine springs in 10% more strength even than a meer 5%..

[jocko]

It's a brand new recoil spring. Bought two of them along with the mag and mag spring, knowing they've got to be changed every couple thousand rounds.

The slide stop does have the notch to catch the spring, and it does when inserted. The slide stop itself seems to be in good shape.

slide stop has a slight notch on the right side of the pin itself. That rides on the inside right side frame slide lock spring that is inserted in the frame itself.

Make sure the recoil spring is on correctly. open end towards the front of the slide. You hve your bases covered.

Try witht he slide off the gun and the slide lock lever in place to insert an empty magazine and watch that left side area and see if the follower is picking up the slide lock lever and moving it upward. do you feel any friction what so ever in the slide lock lever when it is inserted???You can polish the hell out of that lever pin entirely where it goes into the left side of the steel frame and through the barrel lug and then out the right side, alittle grease on that area rubbed in might help. I ajm sure the notch in yor slide is OK but again is your slide stainless or carbon steel. If it is carbon steel, that notch could even be worn some and the lever is jsut slipping out.
Your K9 is around 1997 ear and quite possably is carbon steel version

[ripley16]

is impossable to imprperly put the slide stop lever back in a K9 and damage the slide stop spring. I know you guys are thinking of the polymer models and not the all steel K9

Yes. :o

Pee brained answer... P9 that is.

[PistolPilot]

Make sure the recoil spring is on correctly. open end towards the front of the slide. You hve your bases covered.

Recoil spring is on correctly. When I changed out the new one, I spent 5 minutes trying to figure out how to seat the open end of the spring in the notch in the barrel lug. Then I rotated the assembly around and realized how easy it was.


Try witht he slide off the gun and the slide lock lever in place to insert an empty magazine and watch that left side area and see if the follower is picking up the slide lock lever and moving it upward. do you feel any friction what so ever in the slide lock lever when it is inserted???

The slide lock lever can be observed rotating upward toward the slide when an empty mag is inserted. There is no noticeable friction.


is your slide stainless or carbon steel. If it is carbon steel, that notch could even be worn some and the lever is jsut slipping out.

That I do not know. How can I tell?

When I move the slide back with an empty mag, it locks firmly. I don't have to assist it in any manner whatsoever. It only fails to lock back after cycling rounds from a loaded magazine. That's what leads me to believe it's the mag spring.

[jocko]

and u definitely have the mag spring in correctly to?? From what u stated it sounds like the slide is OK

have you shot it since inserting new recoil spring and follower and mag springs???

gunsprings.com this is wolff's site. order a set of 20# springs and a set of 5% extra mag strength springs and if this all fails. then it is time for kahr to see the gun but more than likely it will be on your dollar for any service required. they willgo right to that serial # and realize it is over 10 years old, course back then I do think kahr offered a lifteime warranty on these guns to the original owner. Not sure they would know you were not the original owner either..

[PistolPilot]

and u definitely have the mag spring in correctly to?? From what u stated it sounds like the slide is OK

have you shot it since inserting new recoil spring and follower and mag springs???

gunsprings.com this is wolff's site. order a set of 20# springs and a set of 5% extra mag strength springs and if this all fails. then it is time for kahr to see the gun but more than likely it will be on your dollar for any service required. they willgo right to that serial # and realize it is over 10 years old, course back then I do think kahr offered a lifteime warranty on these guns to the original owner. Not sure they would know you were not the original owner either..

I have shot it with the new recoil spring, as well as with the new mag and "salvaged" mag with the new recoil spring and follower from the 8rd extended mag.

I'm going to give the +5lb mag springs a shot. Based on what I'm "feeling", I think that's the most likely culprit.

[koishoes]

It's a brand new recoil spring. Bought two of them along with the mag and mag spring, knowing they've got to be changed every couple thousand rounds.

The slide stop does have the notch to catch the spring, and it does when inserted. The slide stop itself seems to be in good shape.

I should also add that when the slide doesn't lock back on the last round, the mag will hang up when I hit the release. If I pull it out, reseat it, and lock the slide back, the mag falls freely. Is that the little metal tab on the follower slipping off the slide stop?

I am having the exact same problem with my K9.
I bought the gun used just yesterday but the born on date is July of 2009, and the gun looks like it was barely fired, little wear and clean as a whistle.

The portion I bolded is what rang a bell with me, as I am having the exact same symptom. If I manually rack the slide on an empty mag, the slide locks back fine and tight. However, on the last round fired the slide doesn't lock back and when I hit the mag release, the mag doesn't drop. If I rack the slide manually without dropping the mag it still doesn't lock, but if I hold the mag release and pull the mag out then reinsert it, the slide locks when I manually rack it.

I'm buying a new mag today to see if that changes anything.

[koishoes]

Ok... so I managed to duplicate exactly what was happening manually.
After firing the final round and, as usual, the slide stop failed to actuate, I pulled the slide open and looked into the ejection port. It appeared that the metal insert on the follower had jammed against the inside of the slide stop lever rather than coming up underneath it. Hmm...

I stripped the gun and then re-inserted the slide stop pin into the frame. Then I inserted an empty mag, and carefully pushed the follower to the right (assuming the slide stop is on the left hand side of the frame). When Released, the metal insert on the follower that is supposed to engage the slide stop jammed against the side of the slide stop and the entire follower came up to the very top of the magazine against the feed lips, rather than pushing underneath the little nub on the slide stop.

I know that was really wordy but I'm trying to be descriptive as possible without posting photos (which I will do later today).

Also- I noticed that when I remove the slide stop, there is a little play between the pin that goes through the barrel lug and the slide stop lever itself. I understand they begin as two separate pieces (that pin is pretty hard metal) but is there supposed to be any play between them?

[jocko]

wow, these scenario's are just so hard to even start to troubleshoot. K9'
s just don't give issues, so it is very hard to relate to you what we have not heard of before or at least heard of how the fix was made

I think you trouble shot the issues very good though, u know what is causing what to happen but how to fix it from my stand point is going to be hard to do. I do think trying a new magazine to see if that helps woldbe the first thing to do. That slight play in the slide stop lever is OK to. My K9 does that but all else works great. Just for me one hell of a great gun.

If this new mag does not help u solve this issue a callto kahr and ask for Oion and explain exactly what ishappening etc, and let him give an opinion. If he says send it back, ask for them to pick the gun up as this is not ur issue..

[koishoes]

I'm used to trouble shooting small motors (I work on vintage mopeds) and a pistol is basically a small machine, and when it comes to Kahr, a perfect machine!

I'm pretty sure it's one of those random one in a million type issues, but after checking out some other stuff I'm pretty sure the slide release as I (possibly poorly) described in the above post is causing my issue and most likely Pistol Pilot's issue as well. It's doing it with a brand new mag too.
Other than that though, the thing is a real tack driver and has to be the most comfortable pistol I've ever fired (it's what made me fall in love with the K9 in the first place).

Question for Jocko though (just to clarify)-
When I said there's play in the slide lock lever, I didn't mean when it's in the gun, but rather there's play in the part itself, where the hardened barrel lug pin is joined to the lever itself. :confused:

Hold on...I'll post a photo or two and maybe somebody can confirm for me whether or not this is normal?

[jocko]

My slide stop leve rohn my PM9 is made in two peaces and I can twirl the actual lever and the pin never moves. To me , I just love that feature for now only the follower has to pick up the lever and not move the lever and pin all at one time.

I hate to see you hav eto buy a new lever and maybe a call to kahr might just get you a new lever NC if you talk nice to them. can't hurt to try

I will tellyou this sad ass story. My P380 was running like a charm with over 1300 rounds down range and then allof a sudden it quick loking open on the last round. So I changed mag springs, no luck, changed followers, no luck, new recoil springs, no luck, new slide lock lever and slide lock lever spring, no luck. even changed the mag rlease, no luck I used every option Ihad, just would not work with any magazine either.

so back it went to kahr. It came back with a new slide and barrel on it and it has never failed since. No u go figure this sh-t out, what the hell changed in 1300+ rounds to cause this and for the issue involved who would have ever thought it could be the slide????

I hope you can trouble shoot it.

[koishoes]

Yeah, machines are machines!

I think that the slide lever is different on the polymer models though, as the end of the pin (I believe) is totally rounded, whereas on the K9 it is beveled on one side.

I just made up a kind of clutter diagram of some of the stuff I'm talking about in photoshop.

I have too much time on my hands :/

[koishoes]

Turned out too small to read. What it says in red is that the beveled edge of the pin sits at an angle to the slide when in the frame rather than parallel to the slide as in all other K9s. On the right the arrow points to where there is play, to the point that the pin can be wiggled back and forth.

[jocko]

Turned out too small to read. What it says in red is that the beveled edge of the pin sits at an angle to the slide when in the frame rather than parallel to the slide as in all other K9s. On the right the arrow points to where there is play, to the point that the pin can be wiggled back and forth.

should not be doing that. not saying that is the cure either but it should not look like that. There is a slight groove on the right side of that pin that the slide stop should lay on, which is on the inside right side of the metal frame. That actually is the only thing that holds that slide stop lever from moving left to right.

You could send this as an email photo to kahr so that they can see what it looks like when in the gun, ... My guess is that by design that pin should not be loose on the slide stop flat part of the lever. It probalby should not be able to be turned separte from the lever itself. Now the PM9 slide stop lever is alittle different and if the pin spins separately of the side stop lever in the polymer version guns, that is OK, as the little springy thing that again holds the slide stop lever from moving left to right is on the left side instead of the far right like on the steel version. That little groove on the polmer gun slide stop levers is right next to the actual flat lever itself and that is where that little springy on the left snaps into that little groove to hold that lever from moving left to right.

[koishoes]

Yeah, you're totally right Jocko. I think the steel frame slide stop design is nice because it's simpler, but the Polymer frame design is nice because it spins freely as you speak of.

You think there's any chance if I email them the diagram I made (the original is like 12in x 12in for detail ;) ) and call them they'll just send me a new one or will I probably have to send them the gun?

[jocko]

Yeah, you're totally right Jocko. I think the steel frame slide stop design is nice because it's simpler, but the Polymer frame design is nice because it spins freely as you speak of.

You think there's any chance if I email them the diagram I made (the original is like 12in x 12in for detail ;) ) and call them they'll just send me a new one or will I probably have to send them the gun?

I would do. email them the photos directed to eoin at kahr customer service, then give them a half day to get it and to read it etc kand thebn call kahr and ask for eion to see whathe things etc. Now remember, IMO he actually doesn't know everytbning about kahrs eithe,r He just signed with tem a few months back to so he probably is not that familiar witht he workings of the K9, so u nee dto explain to him wy that pin shold be in correctly so there fore the K9 slide lock lever does ride in that groove with the spring in the groove on the right side. You canask if he would send you a new slide lock lever to see if this solves the issue and if he says no, then you have a choice of paying around25 bucsk to test out ur theory or otherwise just tellhim to issue a pre paid pickup of thegun and let them worry about it. U might tell him you bought a new magazine to no avail and also replaced the recoils springs with new springs etc. It wold be cheaper for them to send you a new slide lock lever by far but one never knows what they will tell you. be nice, be very explicit about what you hav edone or tired..
for sure IMO that slide stop lever is not right, now could that be the issue, well only a new replacement will tell that.

Let me ask yhou, does that pin revolve on the side lever??? I don't think on the K9 version there should be any revolving allowed due to how the right side has to lock up to keep the slide lock lever from moving left or right..

[jocko]

Yeah, you're totally right Jocko. I think the steel frame slide stop design is nice because it's simpler, but the Polymer frame design is nice because it spins freely as you speak of.

You think there's any chance if I email them the diagram I made (the original is like 12in x 12in for detail ;) ) and call them they'll just send me a new one or will I probably have to send them the gun?

Most of the polymer framed slide stop levers do not spin freely. as somehow that pin is pressed into that lever and if the truth be know, should not turn freely, but mine does and I have read where others do to, but most do not but the way the polymer levers lockup, it doesn't really matter if it revolves freely either, where as witht he K9 model, it should not be turning freely as then that little spring on the inside right side of the frame will not lay in that groove and that is what actually moves the slide lock lever back and forth or up and down, well actually the magazine follower is what moves the slide lock lever upward and then the spring on the right side is what returns the lever downward and actually keeps it there until the magazine follower on the last round picks it up.

earlier on I think you stated or someone stated that the magazine follower was actually getting jamed under that slide stop lever even and to me that is an indication that indeed the lever is moving out towards the left,maybe not alot but enough to jam up the magazine.. I think I have the WYN disease, in that what I just said above could more than likely been said by someone else in less the 50 words..!!!!!!

[tv_racin_fan]

Wonder if the previous owner did not read the manual and forced the slide lock open with empty mag in and worn something down???

[koishoes]

Called Kahr today, got a RA number. Was really hoping they'd just send me a new slide stop but it looks like I'll be gun-less for a while :(

Hoping it won't take too long.

[jocko]

Called Kahr today, got a RA number. Was really hoping they'd just send me a new slide stop but it looks like I'll be gun-less for a while :(

Hoping it won't take too long.

assume u are paying to send it back.

PM sent.

[koishoes]

So I ended up calling back and mentioning that I'd feel better if they paid shipping, AND that I was sure simply the slide stop needed to be replaced and that's it, so the guy on the phone just asked for my address and sent me the part, no questions asked. I even asked if he wanted my serial number, but nope.

Hopefully this will solve things. I'm noticing a very small amount of peening on the upper right corner of the barrel hood where it contacts the breech too, but it's pretty miniscule and I'm sure it's just normal wear (my Glock had that too, it seems pretty normal for locking breech guns).

I DEFINITELY need to work on my groups, going from a Glock 17 to this little guy and I've got fliers all over the place (I guess it doesn't help I have shot in a year).

[jocko]

exactly what I figure dthey would do for you. alot cheap er for them to try this part out than mailign the gun both ways..

[koishoes]

Got the replacement slide stop from Kahr along with factory rated/20lb recoil spring and striker spring from Wolff. Slide stop works like a charm, feels like the lock up is firmer too. I could tell the difference the new striker spring made instantly, trigger is a bit heavier. Probably just needs some rounds down the range. Thanks for the help everyone.