Which Guns Go Toe-to-Toe With the PM9?

[Riccardo]

I really never thought twice before selecting the PM9 as my CCW weapon of choice. But I am now wondering if you guys think there are other guns that can go toe-to-toe with the PM series and be as good as or better than the Kahr in its own niche.

Can somebody tell me about a gun that is just as thin, just as light, just as shootable, but can also beat the PM on magazine capacity, features, reliability? I'm looking for something that can slip unnoticed into my pocket and not feel like a brick, yet shoot comfortably out to 25 yards and not give my hand calouses. Something I can comfortably have my life depend on and also want to shoot every day.

What other guns did you consider before going with the PM series? Anything out there you would have rather had if price were no object?

[OldLincoln]

I'm sure there are comparable guns out there for your criteria since you didn't include price. I've read about some $1100 and up pocket guns that I would not carry for self defense. But that's only because if I had to use it I'd loose it to the police as evidence. Or the LEO would scream "DROP IT!" and bring tears to my eyes.

As for other guns? I really wanted to like the Glock but it didn't fit my hand. I wanted to like a CW9, but it didn't fit my pocket. The PM9 was just right. If I had it to do over, I'd get the PM45 and forget pocket carry.

[erice303]

What about the kel Tech PF9? it is actualt 2oz lighter than the pm9

[Bawanna]

You got the best there is for your description in the PM9.

Coincidently Old Lincoln, ryoung pocket carries his PM45 and I probably would too if I was vertical. Just get the right pockets.


BUT, I want what ryoung is selling. Please put me at the top of the list. Express shipping. Pictures, options, naah, just send em.

This is just a dream come true. Thank you so much. A twin, really. Super Model, Ta, Ta's till tuesday. I'm in heaven already.

Who cares about double nagging, double power whining, focus on double Ta, Ta's till tuesday.

[jocko]

What about the kel Tech PF9? it is actualt 2oz lighter than the pm9

ask anyone who has owned a Kt and a kahr. If weight is what ur after then buy a rohrbaugh for a grand +:yo: I never put a price on a gun when my life might depend upon it..

[dusty10]

AND, after that I suppose you want someone to find you a woman with a perfect body , beautiful white teeth, Ta Ta's till tuesday, Nymphomaniac, who has a twin sister who likes to join in the reindeer games. Who also cooks, cleans, does windows, and minor automotive repairs, along with yardwork. And, who will also support you on her income she earns as an International super model.

Dang Dude !......you don't want much do ya ????

It all sounds too good to be true. Where do I sign up? Is there a waiting period? A backlog? Do they charge an extra 3% for credit card orders? More details please.

[yqtszhj]

AND, after that I suppose you want someone to find you a woman with a perfect body , beautiful white teeth, Ta Ta's till tuesday, Nymphomaniac, who has a twin sister who likes to join in the reindeer games. Who also cooks, cleans, does windows, and minor automotive repairs, along with yardwork. And, who will also support you on her income she earns as an International super model.

Dang Dude !......you don't want much do ya ????

reindeer games sound fun..... am I getting off subject? what was the original subject?:confused:

[slowpoke]

AND, after that I suppose you want someone to find you a woman with a perfect body , beautiful white teeth, Ta Ta's till tuesday, Nymphomaniac, who has a twin sister who likes to join in the reindeer games. Who also cooks, cleans, does windows, and minor automotive repairs, along with yardwork. And, who will also support you on her income she earns as an International super model.

Dang Dude !......you don't want much do ya ????

She should also own a boat. :D

[Bawanna]

She should also own a boat. :D

And clean fish, long as we're dreaming. Maybe skin reindeer to long as we're dancing.

[LuckyGunner]

The only firearm that has the same reliability and overall workmanship of the Kahr is the Rohrbaugh. It's a bit smaller, closer to the size of a Ruger LCP. They are pretty expensive, but the price jump from a Kahr is the same a KT to Kahr or less.

They aren't my personal cup of tea, but the OP asked if there is anything that could match the Kahr.

[kahrseye]

What about the kel Tech PF9? it is actualt 2oz lighter than the pm9

I owned a PF9 and I can tell you that the 2oz difference is not an issue. What is an issue is the lack of quality and workmanship. It's one of the worst guns to shoot. I couldn't shoot it well and it was very unpleasant to shoot. If price is not a issue, buy the Kahr.

[erice303]

an other "competitor" is the Taurus 709 slim

[sonofodin]

Wait, they have those models? Can they brew me beer in the basement and feed my cat to boot? More details..

[Riccardo]

Come on guys! I'm hoping we've got more mouse gun aficionados here then that!

Here's (clockwise) the PM9 next to the Colt Pocket 9, the PF9 and the Rohrbaugh R9.

http://fud-files.netfirms.com/image/private/guns/F219.JPG

Now I know the Keltec is regarded as crackerjack box quality, but sounds like the other two? From what I read, the Pocket Nine was sued by Kahr?

[jeep45238]

Rohrbaugh R9



There, I said it.

Up against a KelTec P3AT

http://fud-files.netfirms.com/image/private/guns/f156.jpg

The Products - R9 series | Rohrbaugh Firearms (http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com/node/9)

[Popeye]

I really do not consider the PM9 to be a good pocket pistol. It's on the large size IMO to be considered one. I have carried mine in my pocket in a pinch,but it's not my usual carry place. It's mostly on my hip IWB. The Kel Tec P3at is a nice choice for a inexpensive pocket pistol. The only problem it's a .380 and not a 9mm. I use it mostly for those times I need to deep conceal carry. Weddings, Funerals,etc. There is no possile way you can compare a PF9 to a PM9 once you get past weight. It just not a fair comparision,with one being on the lower end of the price range and the other being on the top end.
I did get the opportunity to shoot a Walther PPS9 a few months back and although it is not a pocket pistol and more on the size of a slimmed down XD9sc it seemed to be a very fine shooting well made pistol in every sense of the word. IMO like the Kahr PM9 the Walther PPS9 just drips quality. I found it to be a very comfortable 9mm pistol to shoot with very good accuracy. If I had to choose a 9mm to replace my PM9 in the future I'd be giving the PPS9 a long hard look. I very much enjoyed shooting that pistol and glad I had the opportunity to do so. Thanks to my bud Sandman.:yo:

[Riccardo]

I really do not consider the PM9 to be a good pocket pistol. It's on the large size IMO to be considered one. I have carried mine in my pocket in a pinch,but it's not my usual carry place. It's mostly on my hip IWB. The Kel Tec P3at is a nice choice for a inexpensive pocket pistol. The only problem it's a .380 and not a 9mm. I use it mostly for those times I need to deep conceal carry. Weddings, Funerals,etc. There is no possile way you can compare a PF9 to a PM9 once you get past weight. It just not a fair comparision,with one being on the lower end of the price range and the other being on the top end.
I did get the opportunity to shoot a Walther PPS9 a few months back and although it is not a pocket pistol and more on the size of a slimmed down XD9sc it seemed to be a very fine shooting well made pistol in every sense of the word. IMO like the Kahr PM9 the Walther PPS9 just drips quality. I found it to be a very comfortable 9mm pistol to shoot with very good accuracy. If I had to choose a 9mm to replace my PM9 in the future I'd be giving the PPS9 a long hard look. I very much enjoyed shooting that pistol and glad I had the opportunity to do so. Thanks to my bud Sandman.:yo:


You're not kidding - the Walther is a sweet gun! Almost exactly the same size as the PM9 and 21.4 ounces empty...pretty darn close in weight and it looks really nice.

One of my pet peeves with Kahr is the crappy grip extension on their 7 round magazine. Now this is an extended mag done right:
http://www.gunblast.com/images/Walther-PPS/Thumbs/DSC01575.jpg

And a removable backstrap!!! I've seen one too many rubber grip expanders on PM's.
http://www.gunblast.com/images/Walther-PPS/Thumbs/DSC01591.jpg

And I couldn't find any pictures of the PPS9 next to a Kahr but here a are a couple next to the PF9 - Walther at top & right:
http://www.gunblast.com/images/Walther-PPS/Thumbs/DSC01596.jpg http://www.gunblast.com/images/Walther-PPS/Thumbs/DSC01597.jpg

[O'Dell]

I owned a PF9 and I can tell you that the 2oz difference is not an issue. What is an issue is the lack of quality and workmanship. It's one of the worst guns to shoot. I couldn't shoot it well and it was very unpleasant to shoot. If price is not a issue, buy the Kahr.

Exactly right, plus my PF9 was ammo finicky.

[O'Dell]

I really do not consider the PM9 to be a good pocket pistol. It's on the large size IMO to be considered one. I have carried mine in my pocket in a pinch,but it's not my usual carry place. It's mostly on my hip IWB. The Kel Tec P3at is a nice choice for a inexpensive pocket pistol. The only problem it's a .380 and not a 9mm. I use it mostly for those times I need to deep conceal carry. Weddings, Funerals,etc. There is no possile way you can compare a PF9 to a PM9 once you get past weight. It just not a fair comparision,with one being on the lower end of the price range and the other being on the top end.
I did get the opportunity to shoot a Walther PPS9 a few months back and although it is not a pocket pistol and more on the size of a slimmed down XD9sc it seemed to be a very fine shooting well made pistol in every sense of the word. IMO like the Kahr PM9 the Walther PPS9 just drips quality. I found it to be a very comfortable 9mm pistol to shoot with very good accuracy. If I had to choose a 9mm to replace my PM9 in the future I'd be giving the PPS9 a long hard look. I very much enjoyed shooting that pistol and glad I had the opportunity to do so. Thanks to my bud Sandman.:yo:

I've been carrying first a CW9 and now a PM45 in jacket and pants pockets for two years, without a problem. I don't exactly have a lot of bulk to cover them either at 5' 11'' and 165#. The PM9 is smaller and lighter than either, so when I get mine, I expect it to work just fine.

[O'Dell]

I'm sure there are comparable guns out there for your criteria since you didn't include price. I've read about some $1100 and up pocket guns that I would not carry for self defense. But that's only because if I had to use it I'd loose it to the police as evidence. Or the LEO would scream "DROP IT!" and bring tears to my eyes.

As for other guns? I really wanted to like the Glock but it didn't fit my hand. I wanted to like a CW9, but it didn't fit my pocket. The PM9 was just right. If I had it to do over, I'd get the PM45 and forget pocket carry.

Speaking of which, my nickel plated P220 is still sitting in the evidence room at the Gwinnett Cty Police Station. I picked up an arrest report, and they've got the guy for drug possession, possession of a stolen hand gun, improper lane change, and driving w/o a drivers license. I may be waiting a while.

[OldLincoln]

Nah, he'll plea down to the lane change and you'll get it back soon, unless they let him have it.

[Bawanna]

Speaking of which, my nickel plated P220 is still sitting in the evidence room at the Gwinnett Cty Police Station. I picked up an arrest report, and they've got the guy for drug possession, possession of a stolen hand gun, improper lane change, and driving w/o a drivers license. I may be waiting a while.

Did you ask to see your gun by any chance? Just curious if they would allow that. I know I do here. Even if I can't give it back they get visitation rights with supervision of course.
How big is Gwinnett population wise?

[O'Dell]

Did you ask to see your gun by any chance? Just curious if they would allow that. I know I do here. Even if I can't give it back they get visitation rights with supervision of course.
How big is Gwinnett population wise?

No chance to see it, but the evidence room supervisor called me Wednesday. She knew I was concerned, from when I talked to her earlier. She unsealed the box and said the pistol was in very good shape. Of course, I don't know her definitions, and it was perfect when taken.

The last I heard Gwinnett had a population of over 600,000. It's only a part of metro Atlanta which is approaching 6 mil.

[Bawanna]

No chance to see it, but the evidence room supervisor called me Wednesday. She knew I was concerned, from when I talked to her earlier. She unsealed the box and said the pistol was in very good shape. Of course, I don't know her definitions, and it was perfect when taken.

The last I heard Gwinnett had a population of over 600,000. It's only a part of metro Atlanta which is approaching 6 mil.

Sweet Mary and Joseph, 600,000??? That's a lot of freakin people. I'm amazed the evidence room supervisor would call you at all. Gotta be a huge agency. We're overcrowded with 15,000 here.
I had you pegged for small town Georgia, your big city.
Definitions aside, at least its a good sign, and she called you so thats also a good sign. I'm betting she'll get it back to ya just as quick as they let her.

[O'Dell]

Sweet Mary and Joseph, 600,000??? That's a lot of freakin people. I'm amazed the evidence room supervisor would call you at all. Gotta be a huge agency. We're overcrowded with 15,000 here.
I had you pegged for small town Georgia, your big city.
Definitions aside, at least its a good sign, and she called you so thats also a good sign. I'm betting she'll get it back to ya just as quick as they let her.

Yeah, we pasted Mayberry several years ago.

Debbie is in a local precinct station a couple of miles from my house. Her office is just a small part of a much larger whole.

[joshh]

before i bought the pm9 i looked at the walther. Glad i waited for my pm9
Walther PPS vs KAHR PM9
How does the baby Walther PPS stack up to the KAHR 9MM? Specification Walther PPS Kahr PM9 Comparison Material: Polymer Polymer Same Caliber: 9MM 9MM Same Overall Length: 6.3" 5.3" 15% Shorter Overall Height: 4.4" 4.0" 9% Smaller Width: 1.04" 0.90" 13% Slimmer Wgt w/o mag: 19.4 ounces 14.8 ounces 24% Lighter Barrel Length: 3.2" 3.0" 6% Shorter

[Popeye]

I agree the PPs is a bit larger like I had said in another reply, but as I said for me that's not a big deal because I carry mostly on the hip. The PPs has some nice features that the PM9 does not. The small and large back straps, safety trigger, The glock type break down,and the ambi mag release,and like mentioned the way the bottom of the mag finishes off is much nicer than the Kahr. These IMO are some very nice features.

Do not get me wrong though I'm sure not complaining about my PM9 it has been flawless from the first shot fired. Just saying IMO the PPS9 is right there with it though and possibly a little bit ahead with some of it's features.

[kpm9]

The PPS does go toe to toe. I shoot the PPS faster and it is the most accurate small pistol Ive ever shot. Glad I bought mine, but they both have there advantages.

[Riccardo]

before i bought the pm9 i looked at the walther. Glad i waited for my pm9
Walther PPS vs KAHR PM9
How does the baby Walther PPS stack up to the KAHR 9MM? Specification Walther PPS Kahr PM9 Comparison Material: Polymer Polymer Same Caliber: 9MM 9MM Same Overall Length: 6.3" 5.3" 15% Shorter Overall Height: 4.4" 4.0" 9% Smaller Width: 1.04" 0.90" 13% Slimmer Wgt w/o mag: 19.4 ounces 14.8 ounces 24% Lighter Barrel Length: 3.2" 3.0" 6% Shorter

Like others have said, yes the PPS is a bit larger. If you're pocketing the PM9, then it is a big difference to you. But since the PM is already too large for most pockets, I think they are pretty comparable...especially when compared with the thicker Glocks and XD's.

[Popeye]

This is just my opinion but I guess the only true way to find out would be to ask the people at Kahr. I do not believe the PM9 was designed to be a pants pocket carry pistol. It just to squared off. Most pocket pistols are not as squared off and more sleek with less protruding parts like the take down lever and protruding mag. I know I can certainly get if off my hip and into use allot faster than I can out of my pocket and into use in a shtf situation. The PM9 is a great pistol but I have a hard time calling in a good pocket pistol. JMHO

[packinaglock]

AND, after that I suppose you want someone to find you a woman with a perfect body , beautiful white teeth, Ta Ta's till tuesday, Nymphomaniac, who has a twin sister who likes to join in the reindeer games. Who also cooks, cleans, does windows, and minor automotive repairs, along with yardwork. And, who will also support you on her income she earns as an International super model.

Dang Dude !......you don't want much do ya ????

Now that is funny! but you forgot she has to be an NRA member.

[jocko]

This is just my opinion but I guess the only true way to find out would be to ask the people at Kahr. I do not believe the PM9 was designed to be a pants pocket carry pistol. It just to squared off. Most pocket pistols are not as squared off and more sleek with less protruding parts like the take down lever and protruding mag. I know I can certainly get if off my hip and into use allot faster than I can out of my pocket and into use in a shtf situation. The PM9 is a great pistol but I have a hard time calling in a good pocket pistol. JMHO

PM9 rides perfectly in my front jeans pocket. Certainly not a fast draw area though but it is with me 24/7. If I had to dress to carry it in waist band, it probably would sit home alot, so it is maybe a trade off of being there 24/7 or maybe 12/7. Elimate of surprise for the BG is #1 anyway, If he knows ur carrying, he probably will just leave u alone or shoot you first. I really don't loose alot of sleep over either. I stuck model 60's and 37's in my front pocket for years..

[jlottmc]

One thing I didn't see mentioned is the fact that +P ammo is a big no no in the Rohrbaugh. Kahrs can handle that all day long, the KT I don't get, of course I don't get the desire for the 9mm, but hey.

[jeepster09]

I really never thought twice before selecting the PM9 as my CCW weapon of choice. But I am now wondering if you guys think there are other guns that can go toe-to-toe with the PM series and be as good as or better than the Kahr in its own niche.

Can somebody tell me about a gun that is just as thin, just as light, just as shootable, but can also beat the PM on magazine capacity, features, reliability? I'm looking for something that can slip unnoticed into my pocket and not feel like a brick, yet shoot comfortably out to 25 yards and not give my hand calouses. Something I can comfortably have my life depend on and also want to shoot every day.

What other guns did you consider before going with the PM series? Anything out there you would have rather had if price were no object?

Well.....after not resolving my failure to feed whenever changing a mag...I replaced my Kahr with a Kel Tec P11. It holds 13 rounds, is a little thicker but never has had any feeding issues.:59:

[Riccardo]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_C49uGc1kYAc/S3oYeV45m9I/AAAAAAAAA1w/7f-b79-5wzw/s1600/IMG_0613.jpg

[O'Dell]

Like others have said, yes the PPS is a bit larger. If you're pocketing the PM9, then it is a big difference to you. But since the PM is already too large for most pockets, I think they are pretty comparable...especially when compared with the thicker Glocks and XD's.

Don't understand that unless you're trying to put it in a watch pocket. I've never had a problem pocket carrying a CW9 or a PM45, and they are quite a bit larger than the PM9.

BTW, the PPS is not a bit larger - it's a lot larger and a lot heavier than a PM9.

[O'Dell]

Well.....after not resolving my failure to feed whenever changing a mag...I replaced my Kahr with a Kel Tec P11. It holds 13 rounds, is a little thicker but never has had any feeding issues.:59:

Just the opposite for me - I had a P11 for a year and a PF9 for two years, before I discovered Kahr. Both were ammo finicky and would not shoot WWB at all. With three Kahr's, two of which I still own, and almost 2000 rounds, no problems. Both were larger than the PM9, but KT does a good job on weight control. The trigger on the PF9 was decent, but I never did get a handle on the P11 trigger. Also, if I remember correctly, the standard mag for the P11 was 10+1.

[jocko]

One thing I didn't see mentioned is the fact that +P ammo is a big no no in the Rohrbaugh. Kahrs can handle that all day long, the KT I don't get, of course I don't get the desire for the 9mm, but hey.

the fact that rohrbaugh tells you what ammo brand will work and there are very few ammo brands that work in the R9 and they recommend changing recoil springs every 200 rounds. Course this is one gun that u will really never shoot alot for other than quality made which it certainly is, it is very small and light and really doesn't fit that well in one's hand, so most R9 owners that I know never shoot theirs much beyound break-in testing for reliability. It fills a niche area but sometimes we can go to small and to light in some calibers and then the gun seeks to be not a fun gun anymore. I buy um to shoot and especially my 24/7 carry gun. If it can't take the rounds through it, I just don't want it. Kahrs are so damn durable it is unbelievable.:smash:

[jlottmc]

I forgot about that part jocko. I know of one person who actually uses his Rohrbaugh as a BUG. I still keep trying to pry him and his PM45 apart though. I have no idea how much he shoots that little R9S that he has, except on qual. day. Personally, I like being able to throw whichever round I can find in that caliber in a pinch threw the gun.

[OldLincoln]

O'Dell: "The last I heard Gwinnett had a population of over 600,000. It's only a part of metro Atlanta which is approaching 6 mil."

It's a little known secret that Sacramento doesn't want out, but Fresno has a larger population than Sacramento.

Pocket Carry: I pocket carry carry my PM9 when going to the mail box. That's to remain legal because I'm not concealed in my gad about the house clothes. It fitsd fine, just prefer IWB. I sold my perfect pocket pistol, a .380.

I don't understand why Jeep's FTF never cleared up, but if he says it I believe it. Of course mine didn't want to feed HST until I polished the feed ramp. Come to think of it neither did my 1911. They both eat it up now.

Look out Jocko, I'm getting closer on round count! I figure I have about 500rds into my PM9 now. Heck I've cleaned it more than I've shot it. All the inerds are so purty and shiny now.

[O'Dell]

O'Dell: "The last I heard Gwinnett had a population of over 600,000. It's only a part of metro Atlanta which is approaching 6 mil."

It's a little known secret that Sacramento doesn't want out, but Fresno has a larger population than Sacramento.

Pocket Carry: I pocket carry carry my PM9 when going to the mail box. That's to remain legal because I'm not concealed in my gad about the house clothes. It fitsd fine, just prefer IWB. I sold my perfect pocket pistol, a .380.

I don't understand why Jeep's FTF never cleared up, but if he says it I believe it. Of course mine didn't want to feed HST until I polished the feed ramp. Come to think of it neither did my 1911. They both eat it up now.

Look out Jocko, I'm getting closer on round count! I figure I have about 500rds into my PM9 now. Heck I've cleaned it more than I've shot it. All the inerds are so purty and shiny now.

I've just never found IWB comfortable, so I pocket carry when packing a Kahr. I'm still experimenting with this new clipless Remora IWB holster, so that may change. It will fit nearly all my 45's.

I haven't tried HST's in my PM45 because I haven't found any at a good price in 45, but they worked in my CW9.

The only reason that I haven't already bought a PM9 is that I want to trade in my new CPO SIG P220. I can't do that until I find out when I'm getting my old, and much more desirable, nickel P220 from the Gwinnett police.

[jeepster09]

Well on my ongoing quest for the perfect gun....I just got one of these.
Next it is off to get some jewelling and tweaking.:D

[Seahawk60]

I've just never found IWB comfortable

Wow. Ever try a Crossbreed Supertuck? Or a Minotaur from Comp-tac?

[OldLincoln]

I haven't tried HST's in my PM45 because I haven't found any at a good price in 45, but they worked in my CW9. You might keep an eye on Kyle's Gunshop (http://www.kylesgunshop.com/) for HST. He has it when he can get it and is reasonable on price and shipping. He currently has HST in 9mm, and has Winchester Ranger T-Series (SXT) .45ACP 230gr +P Law Enforcement Duty Ammunition (50 rounds) for $33.

[VBVAGUY]

Taurus PT709 is a good competitor for the Kahr PM9. The quality is not as nice as the PM9 but it works. I have one and have approx. 2500 problem free rounds with mine. As someone else said the Keltec PF-9 is another. I have one too and pruchased one for $235 brand new at a show a few weeks back. I hope this helps. God Bless :)

[O'Dell]

Taurus PT709 is a good competitor for the Kahr PM9. The quality is not as nice as the PM9 but it works. I have one and have approx. 2500 problem free rounds with mine. As someone else said the Keltec PF-9 is another. I have one too and pruchased one for $235 brand new at a show a few weeks back. I hope this helps. God Bless :)

Had both the 709 Slim and the PF9. The Slim DIDN'T work and Taurus couldn't fix it on one return trip, so I sold it. The PF9 worked OK, but was ammo finicky, and wouldn't shoot WWB at all. When I got a CW9, I no longer wanted the PF9, so it went too.

[O'Dell]

Wow. Ever try a Crossbreed Supertuck? Or a Minotaur from Comp-tac?

I have a Supertuck in my holster drawer. I also have two similar Kholsters, [different sizes] which I actually like better. However, neither is something I would want to wear for more than a hour or so.

[O'Dell]

You might keep an eye on Kyle's Gunshop (http://www.kylesgunshop.com/) for HST. He has it when he can get it and is reasonable on price and shipping. He currently has HST in 9mm, and has Winchester Ranger T-Series (SXT) .45ACP 230gr +P Law Enforcement Duty Ammunition (50 rounds) for $33.

Thanks Lincoln, I'll look into it. I have plenty of 9mm GD's and HST, but I need 45 in both. I seldom shoot 9mm anymore. Maybe that'll change when I get a PM9.

[O'Dell]

You might keep an eye on Kyle's Gunshop (http://www.kylesgunshop.com/) for HST. He has it when he can get it and is reasonable on price and shipping. He currently has HST in 9mm, and has Winchester Ranger T-Series (SXT) .45ACP 230gr +P Law Enforcement Duty Ammunition (50 rounds) for $33.

Lincoln, I found some Federal LE HydroShock at my regular supplier today for $22.95 per 50 or $224.95 for 500. It's not HST, but I've used it in 9mm and it works well and will feed in anything. It's at Ammunition to Go.

[joshh]

for me carrying comfort (iwb) has a lot to do with weight so the pps felt more comparable to my glock other than its a little thinner. but for what is sacrificed in thickness i'll take the 16 rounds of .40 in the glock. walther pps is def a nice iwb gun & i wouldnt hesitate to carry one & they do shoot nice as well. i just have been really impressed with the pm9 and its carrying versatility... but thats just imo & o's are like a'holes - every1 has one!