Agrips on PM40 and mag - Photos

[garyb]

I recently installed agrips on my PM40 and love it. I purchased a sheet of 5X8" agrip material from www.cpwsa.com (http://www.cpwsa.com) for the base of all my mags, in order to improve the grip and eliminate the stainless look. It worked great on the 5 and 6 round mags. I simply took some measurements and cut a trial paper trace, removed the base of the clip, then cut and trimmed the agrip material to fit smoothly. It does not interfere in any manner and makes the mags look and feel like they were made to fit without the shinny metal showing. The agrip material really improved the grip on the 6 round extended mags. The 5 round mag no longer appears as if there is a piece of stainless is sticking out of the grip. It matches the agrip material on the pistol grip. I read a review complaint when I researched the PM models prior to my purchase. I must admit that I agree with that review. The agrip material eliminates this stainless and mag fit appearance completely and makes the mags look like they are custom made to fit. Much better concealment. I tested them at the range several times, and the material holds up well when you drop your empty mag to the ground to quickly reload a new mag. It is a very durable and excellent grip material, but a little pricey. One 5X8" sheet did FOUR of the 6 round mags and ONE of the 5 round, with some to spare. Pay attention to how you plan your cuts. I will try to figure out how to attach some photos. PHOTOS WERE ATTACHED BELOW IN THIS THREAD.

[03dime03]

I would like to see some pictures. It sounded so good I ordered a grip and 5 by 8 piece. Not sure how you did the mags. Please explain what you did in more detail if you can.

Thanks alot,

[jimbar]

I was also wondering how well this material works. I was considering ordering the pre-cut Agrip for my CW9, for a little extra cushion and grip. Pictures would be great.

Thanks

[garyb]

I will try to get some photos linked in the next couple of weeks. It is deer season in my neck of the woods right now. I am very busy hunting, but will try to get you some photos and description of how I did this.

[garyb]

Attached are some images of the agrips on the mags. For the 5 round mag on the PM40, simply remove the end of the mag, cut the agrip material to fit, trim with razor blade, cut hole for mag removal button, reinstall end of mag...done. For the 6 round mag, you will need to cut a pattern from paper (I will enclose in another message...I could not include all photos in this message). Again, finish the end of the mag as described above with one minor change. Allow the agrip material to wrap over the end and onto the sides of the extension... then wrap the next piece of agrip around the plastic part of the mag over the first piece. Use the pattern to cover the back of the stainless part of the mag. The pattern is 2" X 3/4". Total of 3 pieces to wrap a mag with extension. You'll get the idea once you get going. Carefully measure all parts before cutting your agrip material.

[garyb]

Here are a couple more photos. One of the PM40 with the extended grip wrapped in agrip. One of the paper pattern used to trace the agrip material for the piece that covers the back of the stainless portion of the extended 6 round mag.

[garyb]

Attached are the photos of the PM40 all tricked out without the holsters. CTL, night sights and Agrips installed on the grip and mag ends (extended 6 round mag and 5 round mag). That should do it for you. :yo:

This agrip material works great. It has an ultra sticky adhesive material which can be repositioned, but once it sets up, it sticks on nicely. It has a nice soft but excellent grip. I would not say it is cushy, like others have described it. It is very thin and you can see ALL of the contours of the grip through the material, even the "K" Kahr logo on the grip. The material actually has a nice warm feel and smell of leather. It is matted when new and tends to "gloss up" or compress a bit with extended use, especially with daily pocket carry. I would describe it as a very durable and stable grip material. Take your time and install it correctly. Trim excess with a razor. Good luck.

[03dime03]

Thanks alot for the info and pictures. Your gun looks great.

[Alfonse]

That looks great. But, to disassemble the magazine it has to be removed, right? So, to clean it, or change the spring you have to start over? Is there a way around that?

[earle8888]

Whats the experience with this after cleaning and solvent exposure! Nice looking holster, Manufacturer?
The purpose of covering the grip is?

[garyb]

It is NOT required to remove the agrips from the base of the mag each time you disassemble the mag to clean, providing you cut a small hole for the disassembly. There is no need to saturate the mag when cleaning. It is simple guys...think it through. You remove the base which removes the agrip with the base plate. You clean the mag and spring. You reassemble. The agrip stays intact. It is not complicated.

And the purpose of the agrip???? Well...3 fold:
- to improve the grip for one;
-To blend the mag with the grip (appearance) so that the agrip on the pistol grip and the mag look as if they are matched (instead of the 5 round mag appearing as if the stainless sticks out);
- and to cover the stainless so it is more concealed.

Additionally, if you don't want to spend the money, or install the agrips because you do not feel it is worth it...don't do it. I love the additional grip and the asthetic value. It is an individual decision.

[garyb]

Earle888,
Why would it be necessary to saturate the mag with solvent? They simply do not get THAT dirty. Simply wipe them down while avoiding the agrip area. The agrip is fairly tolerant anyway, but if you saturate them with solvent, why bother???? There are two holsters in the photos. The first is a pocket holster called Guru by www.pocketholsters.com (http://www.pocketholsters.com) and it is a beauty. The second is a paddle OR belt holster by Gould and Goodrich purchased through Karh. Both are available for with and without CTL. Quality products. I just happen to like the CTL AND Agrips on my PM40 grip AND mags. As I stated, if you install the AGRIP correctly on the mags, by installing a hole, you can slide the base of the mag off and leave the agrips installed. If you do not install the agrip correctly.... you wasted your money. It is a GREAT system if done properly. Your handgun will feel great in hand, even with sweaty hands. Very warm and fuzzy with great grip. The photos don't say enough for how well they work. They only show how great they look.

[garyb]

Here you go guys. A picture is worth a thousand words. See the tiny hole which is made in the base of the mag, in order to remove it? This allows you to leave the agrip installed and simply slide it off the base of the mag to remove the spring and clean the mag and spring. [NOTE: On the stainless mag base, it is NOT necessary to cut a hole for the base removal. The stainless on the base plate lock simply slides past the agrip with no problem. However, on the plastic base plate locks, I recommend you cut the hole in the agrip.]The extension and base are not the components that get dirty when shooting...therefore it is not necessary to saturate this part. The part you clean is the inside of the mag, spring and feed portion of the mag. To cut this tiny hole, I inserted a pen from the inside toward the outside and then cut the agrip portion away with a razor or scapel. It was easy to do. Just think it through and you'll be fine. The mag base will slide on and off the same, with or without the agrip installed. Trim it carefully and it will look nice and be very functional and durable.

[garyb]

I promise :eek:, these are the last photos I will attach to help demonstrate how I installed Agrip material on the magazine base plates. The first photo is of the mag disassembled, showing the mag tube, base plate (covered on the outside only with agrip), mag base lock, and mag follower. The next two photos are of the mag base plate and mag tube, areas covered in agrip material. The mag base plate easily slides on and off the tube, providing you only cover the outside portion. Simply and carefully trim off the inside of the base with a razor or scapel (I used a scapel). Carefully cut a hole in the bottom of the base plate by gently pushing a pen or nail through the hole in the base plate to slightly raise the agrip material that covers the hole, while trimming the agrip material off with a razor or scapel, in order to free up the hole. It is simple, but requires patience. (I do taxidermy as a hobby, so I am used to working with small sewing projects and use magnifiers to see the detail when I am working.) The rear stainless portion of the mag tube is covered with agrip by using a paper trace and carefully fitting the agrip material to blend in with the base plate. Surprisingly, this stainess covered agrip area does not move once in place. The raised curve of the plastic extension slightly overlap and cover this portion of the mag tube that has agrip on it and thereby protects the edges of the agrip on the tube. It is very durable and comfortable. I hope this clears up the process a bit better for you :typing:. You may or may not wish to take the time or spend the money on this project. It is a nice enhancement to the PM4044N. Sorry for the disjointed explanation. It was so obvious to me that I didn't feel it was that complicated, but I guess it is somewhat. Good luck and Done!

[earle8888]

Tks, garyb; I was talking about the frame not the mags. Pocket hol looks good

[garyb]

I am uncertain of the effects of various cleaning solvents/agents and lubricants. I would expect the manufacturer would have details available concerning the specific solvent products you use. I checked the literature but could not find anything this specific. Personally, I would be very careful NOT to saturate the agrip material and would take necessary precautions to protect it because it works so nicely. I know that water is not an issue.

[Bawanna]

Nice work. I can see no reason why a person would need to get solvent anywhere near the material. A wipe down with a patch with a little solvent if things are really bad, but no more than that.
It does tie the package together nicely and looks good.

[Ol'coot]

Whats the experience with this after cleaning and solvent exposure! Nice looking holster, Manufacturer?
The purpose of covering the grip is?

Nice looking Job Gary it really changes the overall look of the gun, and I have the question and concerns as earle8888

[garyb]

Time will tell if the agrip material holds up. They warrant it for ONE year, but state it could hold up for 20 years (but perhaps if it is sitting in my gun vault - who knows?) I will determine if it will withstand the wear and tear of everyday carry, frequent range use, and endure minimal contact with solvents and lubs. I don't plan to saturate the material. Obviously, I am not on the agrip payroll or endorsing the product yet. I will let you know when the material begins to fail in any way and the reasons why. The agrip material was not cheap, but relative to what I spent on the gun, holsters, mags, (future reloading equipment,) etc.... the material has asthetic and technical function and was worth a try. Thus far, the agrip material is fulfilling its role and performing nicely.
Again, I'll let you know the real deal over time, once I know.
Thanks for your comments:blah:.

[JLeephoto]

GaryB, the pictures not big enough for my tired eyes to tell, but does the Agrip create any difficulty in installing the CT laser? Did you put the grip on first then install the laser or cut around it?

[garyb]

JLeepphoto, I believe you can double click on the photo to enlarge them. I am not sure why some guys photo attachments install so large and others do not....sorry.

I did install the Agrip prior to installing the CTL and had absolutely no problem installing the CTL. In fact, the CTL seems to stay in one place better with the Agrip material in place.

So far (approx 3 months use) the Agrip material has held up VERY well with daily pocket carry and daily dry fire practice. There were no problems at all with the material on the grip or the mag bases. I especially like it on the short 5 round mag, as it eliminates the stainless glare which helps with concealment and feels so much better and secure in the hand. I have not had much range time with the extended mags, so time will tell. I will report back after a good period of use. I hope this helps.

[mr. bggs]

my only question is how does it affect your draw. i know the hogue slip on thing really grabs a shirt or inside of pocket to the point i cant comfortably carry with them. i love the looks of agrip and want to try them, but i just wonder how it grabs the inside of the pocket or tshirt when packin it. thanks in advance gary i know we are hitting you with everything under the sun, downside of being the beta tester i guess. lol. thanks. brad in NC

[garyb]

Hey Brad, The agrip is not sticky against cloth material nor leather holster. It does not grab the inside of the pocket. In fact, it slides better against the clothing than the sharp edges on the kahr polymer grip. The agrip material does enhance your grip in the hand whether sweaty or dry. Therefore, if anything it will enhance your draw by better hand grip but without clothing friction nor stickiness. It actually feels and smells like an ultra thin piece of suade leather. Very comfortable to hold. It is so thin that you can see the "K" label and the stipling on the grip protrude through the agrip material. Apply it correctly and you will NOT be disappointed. It really sticks well to the polymer. I've showed it to Hogue users and they like the agrip much better. You will see why. The agrip is really not all that expensive to try out, even if you don't like it. You will like it, I assure you.

[dusty10]

does the Agrip material bleed black when covered in sweat?

[Bawanna]

does the Agrip material bleed black when covered in sweat?

You must be in a different union local. Round here sweating is prohibited, and you'll be in the same harbor with cement overshoes with Hoffa if you violate the rule.

[dusty10]

Different parts of the country have different union rules. 'Round here, the bosses start sweating the moment they exit their cadillacs. Or maybe it's cuz 'round these parts we don't cotton to no stinking union bosses. Dunno, I'll have to think on that a spell.

[garyb]

Sweat Black Question -
I am currently in Florida, in our motor home. We had a big wedding for my youngest daughter on 1/1/11. Great day....daddy publically cried (during the daddy daughter dance) cried in spite of successfully gulping down the tears on other occasions during the ceremony (ie., walking her down the aisle)...oh well. They are off on their honeymoon to Jamaca..."mon".

Anyway, I had the opportunity to shoot with my son-in-laws the other day. It was sunny but not terribly hot (high 70's) and I did have mildly sweaty hands and did not note any black bleeding from the agrip material. I would tend to believe that it would be more likely for color bleeding to occur early on, rather than later. I would encourage you to contact agrip makers directly and pose your question or problem with bleeding black if you had experienced this in the past. Perhaps they have made a change to the product in recent years to correct it OR it is still a problem (unexperienced up to this time by me). I can not say if this will remain the case as the material ages, because it is only a few months old now.

My one son-in-law is a big time handgunner. He uses primarily full size handguns. He has used other pistol grip materials and this was the first time he saw/felt the agrip material or used my PM40. He was pleasantly surprised how nice the material works. Better yet, he was astonished at how little recoil (muzzle flip) he felt with the PM40. He expected much more. His first 6 rounds were all in the 10 ring at 7 yards. He outshot his Springfield XD with my little PM40 and CTL. I know he was surprised. As a defense, he told me that using the CTL is "cheating". I responded that in self defense when a guns are drawn, there is no such thing as cheating. I could see by his expression that he is considering a CTL. Ha ha. But by his words, he is going to get agrips on his handgun(s). He loved the agrip material.

I can say that the material is holding up great on the grip and the mag bases/extensions. It is ultra thin but seems to be mega tough and adheres well. I took my time installing the material and had cleaned things up well, so I believe this is a big part of the reason for it adhering so well.

[smokey337]

Agrips ordered. What did you use to clean the polymer hand grip prior to applying the Agrip material?

[garyb]

I am not being evasive but you will receive very clear directions on how to degrease and clean the grip, etc... If you follow the directions precisely, you will have NO problems. The directions tell you everything. You can also go to their web site to preview this information. Minimal materials are needed. (Alcohol, degreaser, razor to trim up the edges, chair to sit in when you have the pistol between your knees during application). It only takes about 5-10 minutes to do the entire job...very quick and simple process. Read them over first and get the cleaning materials for the delivery of your new Agrips. Take your time. The stuff really sticks. It sticks even better over time. Allow it to overlap where it is designed to. It adheres to itself well. Good luck. You will like it.

[dusty10]

Sweat Black Question -
I am currently in Florida, in our motor home. We had a big wedding for my youngest daughter on 1/1/11. Great day....daddy publically cried (during the daddy daughter dance) cried in spite of successfully gulping down the tears on other occasions during the ceremony (ie., walking her down the aisle)...oh well. They are off on their honeymoon to Jamaca..."mon".

Anyway, I had the opportunity to shoot with my son-in-laws the other day. It was sunny but not terribly hot (high 70's) and I did have mildly sweaty hands and did not note any black bleeding from the agrip material. I would tend to believe that it would be more likely for color bleeding to occur early on, rather than later. I would encourage you to contact agrip makers directly and pose your question or problem with bleeding black if you had experienced this in the past. Perhaps they have made a change to the product in recent years to correct it OR it is still a problem (unexperienced up to this time by me). I can not say if this will remain the case as the material ages, because it is only a few months old now.

My one son-in-law is a big time handgunner. He uses primarily full size handguns. He has used other pistol grip materials and this was the first time he saw/felt the agrip material or used my PM40. He was pleasantly surprised how nice the material works. Better yet, he was astonished at how little recoil (muzzle flip) he felt with the PM40. He expected much more. His first 6 rounds were all in the 10 ring at 7 yards. He outshot his Springfield XD with my little PM40 and CTL. I know he was surprised. As a defense, he told me that using the CTL is "cheating". I responded that in self defense when a guns are drawn, there is no such thing as cheating. I could see by his expression that he is considering a CTL. Ha ha. But by his words, he is going to get agrips on his handgun(s). He loved the agrip material.

I can say that the material is holding up great on the grip and the mag bases/extensions. It is ultra thin but seems to be mega tough and adheres well. I took my time installing the material and had cleaned things up well, so I believe this is a big part of the reason for it adhering so well.


Garyb, having walked two daughters down the isle, I can relate to the tears shed. For me it was during the father/daughter dance and the songs my girls picked for that occasion. You sir are allowed, it goes with the territory.

I had Agrip material on a CZ P-01 that I once had and really liked it. I never carried that IWB in Texas heat, hence my question. I think I might give it a try. I just hope I can get the stuff off the gun if I don't like it or it bleeds when I sweat on it IWB this summer. :D

[garyb]

Yea, me too. I have not experienced the bleeding you expressed concern about, but that does not mean it could not occur. Perhaps there is a cause, but I have not seen it yet. I have not experienced any negative. I believe they have a 1 yr warranty and you should look into this through the company to make sure it covers dissatisfaction with bleeding color.

[2thhacker]

do the pre-cut grips fit a pm40 without modification? if not, would i be better off ordering the sheet and using the left-overs on the mags?

[garyb]

You are definately better to buy the preformed Agrips. I had to do very minimal trimming around my mag release and at the base of the grip. That was it. Otherwise the prefitted Agrips went on very easily and fit well.

If you are doing the mag bases, you will probably need the full sheet anyway, depending on how many mags you intend to do. From one full sheet, I did 3 of the 6 round mags with extensions and 1 of the 5 round mags (just the base). I had enough left over to do another 6 round mag or a couple more of the 5 round mags. Good to have some spare anyway, should I need to redo one in the future. I am guessing the 5 round mag will be the first to require replacement because I carry this mag every day. However, after over 3 months of carry, the material is holding up great on the grip and mags.

You might be able to do the grip and mags from a full sheet, but I am not really sure. I suggest the prefit agrip for the grip because it goes on so easily and fits properly. Attempting to fit the grip from a full sheet might be tricky on the first run. You could cut some cloth material first with some two sided sticky tape, in order to get the fit right before cutting the agrip. That might be a good solution for you. Let us know what you decide and how it turns out.

[2thhacker]

If the pre-cut is that easy I'd say it's worth it to buy both. Right now I only have the 2 mags it came with, but like you said having a bit extra is a good thing. By the way, I took it out again yesterday, only fired about 30 rnd instead of 100+ and I liked the pistol much better. Also, it was about 40 degrees instead of 20 (a "range trip" for me is outdoor shooting at my in-laws farm. Not ideal situation but the price is right and it never closes. I think I got a bad first impression b/c or weather and too many rounds too fast. I was anxious to get past the 200rnd mark as quickly as possible.

[garyb]

You are going to like the feel of the agrips. I agree that it is better to buy both the precut and the sheet, but it is your choice. You may want to play, but the precut reduces your chance of making a mistake. Good luck.

[Ransom]

Founds these Kahr grips on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120671060451&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

[garyb]

Not at all like the Agrips. I've seen the decal grips, which add bulk to the grip, if that is what you are looking for. However, they do not totally wrap the grip with the gripping material. They only fit the sides of the grip, not the front (fingers) or back (palm). They will probably do the job though.

[Ransom]

They don't add bulk they are extremly thin the whole thing with them is the feel weather or not you like the texture some love them some don't.

[Tat2dman]

Just don`t get it wet!

[garyb]

Just don't get "what" wet...the agrips or the decal grips. According to the manufacturer the agrips will tolerate getting wet. Simply allow them to dry. Go to the web site to check this out. I don't know about the decal grips. Thanks.

[earle8888]

Its great that a Custom made mod. is available! Sure looks different, shows a lot of Patience and talent.

[JLeephoto]

GaryB, You ought to get a commission. I purchased a precut set for my PM9 with CTG and they work great. I've been shooting 150+ rounds per range trip and the checkering was eating up my hands, but these grips cure that. FWIW, I can never get decals on straight but found installation pretty easy, and it does fit under the CTG with very minimal gap. Thanks for the info.

[garyb]

earle8888, Agrip is honestly very easy to install. No talent required, but they look great.

Jleephoto - Glad your installation went well and you like the Agrips. You will like them more and more. I agree that they dampen the sting from the sharp edges. You'll find they help the grip and just feel warm and fuzzy in the hand. Very comfy.

[garyb]

8 months of rigorous use and daily carry and my agrips are holding up very well on the polymer grip. Like new. No shifting or wear noted and functionality has not changed. It handles wear, temperature changes and moisture very well. Good durable stuff.

However, during some hot very weather IDPA shooting the mag wraps did not hold up well on the PM40's extended grips. I did not have them wrapped properly for the direction of my hand pressure on the heal of the extension on the mag. High temperatures and hand pressure from the heel of my palm, pushed the material toward the base plate. I needed to re-evaluate the installation. Therefore, the mag wrap I demonstrated does not work well. I've always admitted when I'm wrong and learn from it. I cleaned up the mag extensions well and started over with a new piece of Agrip.

From this I have learned a much better way to wrap the mag grips, with a simple 3/4" W X 5" long strip of Agrip, overlapping on the pinky side of the mag by simply wrapping the material around the mag extension. Start by centering the Agrip strip over the heal of the mag and wrap one side around, pressing it into place, then the other side so it overlaps the first wrap on the front of the mag. Press the overlapping portions into the shape and curves of the polymer extension. This is exactly the same way the polymer grip is wrapped and it works well. I also entirely eliminated the small piece covering the base plate. This new wrap method is holding much better.

On the 5 round flush mag which I carry daily, the agrip material on the base plate was starting to slip a little. I removed the agrip material and simply blued the bottom portion of the mag. On stainless this comes out black and matches the rest of the gun very well, eliminating the shiny stainless. No agrip on the base plate of any of the mags.

The Agrip material is not really necessary on the grip portion of the mag extensions, but it does make them more comfortable in the hand to shoot; provides a better grip while shooting and making rapid mag exchanges; aesthetically it covers the stainless and blends the mag with the Agrip on the pistol grip.

Admittedly, it's not for everyone, but I like the function, feel, durability and looks of this material.

[Joe L]

GaryB--Thanks so much for putting up with all the questions and doing the original posts in January. I remember looking through this thread in March after borrowing a friends PM9 to shoot for a few weeks. Also nice to see a followup. I went to the plastic base plates to get a little pinky grip on my PM40 and since on my CM9 but I have never liked the shiney magazine exposed on the longer mags. This was especially obvious on the 8 rounder I received yesterday for my CM9--thing looks like a machine gun magazine on the little pistol. I may try the Agrip material on it just to experiment. This is fun.

Joe

[garyb]

Joe L, you'll like the feel of this agrip material. I covered the shiney stainless on the mags for the same reason. It is a simple 3/4" X 5" strip to wrap them. The width may vary on different model mags, based on how much they extend below the grip on the pistol. After shooting with the mag extensions wrapped with agrip, you'll really liked the feel. It is not hard to do. Just take your time cutting it with scissors and clean up the parts well prior to sticking it on. Simple.