P380 - A Few Stovepipes - Me or the gun?

[xzhync]

All, I have put approx. 400 rounds through my new P380. So far, it is running pretty good. I have experienced a total of 3 stovepipes. The last one happened while firing 1-handed and it is possible it was a "limp-wristed" shot. I didn't think I limp-wristed the other 2 times it happened, but maybe. I had the first stovepipe in the first 200 rounds or so and the other 2 in the last 200 rounds. Anyway, I am wondering if stovepipes are typically shooter (limp-wristed) related or could they indicate a hardware problem. If hardware, which part or parts usually cause this problem? Any insight would be appreciated.

[jocko]

to me 3 stove pipes in 400 rounds is not indicative of a gun issue but IMO more of a shooter issue. These are small ass guns and not alot to get ahold of, I think u answered the 1 handed thing with your limp wrist comment, quite possable the other two are related also. One gets tired when shooting these small guns, wrist and grip starts to change and one does not realize it is happening.

IMO ur P380 is good to go, I think if u have not yet, I would begin workng on a good reliable defense round. trust me I am not here to criticise u either and stating that it is defnintely limping the gun, just giving you some things that I can tell you have already factored in as a possable. to me if there was a real gun issue, 2 out of 400 rounds is not showing a part failure...

My wife shoots my lcp poorly but when she first starts out for at leat 25 rounds she is flawless then sh-t happens, FTF, FTE start to show up. I can then take that same gun and have zero issues with it. I know it is here, she doesn't realize it.

[Bawanna]

Even though he doesn't need my validation, I agree with Jocko 100% on this one. I often think a new word for limp wristing should be implemented as it mentally paints a picture of unmanliness which in many cases is uncalled for.

[xzhync]

Jocko and Bawanna, most likely it is a limp-wrist issue...the only time I have ever been associated with that term...hopefully the last. The guy at the gun store/range said stove pipes are more common with small guns and the P380 is about as small as they come. I know the last one was. I don't really shoot enough 1-handed, so I am sure my technique needs work. Just out of curiosity, would a part imperfection like a weak extractor spring or something else make the gun a little more likely to stove pipe with a semi-limp wrist? In other words, would it be worth having Kahr send me a new extractor spring or some other part(s)? I had just installed a new recoil spring last week, so I doubt that is an issue. When stove-pipes are not associated with limp-wristing what is the typical mechanical issue that causes it? Anyway, thanks for your help and insight.

[Bawanna]

If one somehow could prove it wasn't a limp wrist, weak grip issue the first place I would go would be the recoil spring and your already there. If it's stovepiping the extractor is doing its job, the slide most like has lost enough momentum to not bang against the ejector with enough gumption to kick it out. Lots of things can contribute here, a dirty chamber making the extractor work harder, a dry gun could slow things down, a very dirty gun could slow things down.
With mine PM45 and I know Wynn experienced this as well before his last frame swap the minute I get sloppy with my grip, I get ejected cases in the forehead. Shoot like I mean it with a solid grip and they kick out as they should. I sometimes think the gun has it's own mine (perhaps similar to my wife) and punishes me for not focusing or something.
Were these stovepipes (not many as I recall) towards the end of your shooting sessions, perhaps when you could have been getting a little tired?

[jocko]

Jocko and Bawanna, most likely it is a limp-wrist issue...the only time I have ever been associated with that term...hopefully the last. The guy at the gun store/range said stove pipes are more common with small guns and the P380 is about as small as they come. I know the last one was. I don't really shoot enough 1-handed, so I am sure my technique needs work. Just out of curiosity, would a part imperfection like a weak extractor spring or something else make the gun a little more likely to stove pipe with a semi-limp wrist? In other words, would it be worth having Kahr send me a new extractor spring or some other part(s)? I had just installed a new recoil spring last week, so I doubt that is an issue. When stove-pipes are not associated with limp-wristing what is the typical mechanical issue that causes it? Anyway, thanks for your help and insight.

forget that extractor spring. That is not the issue. I really think you doing OK with the little gun to, so maybe we are all making to big of an issue out of it. Like Bawanna ask to, try to remember when these couple of jams happened, i. e. atthe very first of shooting or towards the end of the session

If I went out tommorrw with my trusty PM9 which I have over 30,000 rounds through it and it hic-cuped once or twice even, I would not loose alot of sleep over it. I would go back to square one though and give it the tlc that has gotten that gun to where it is now and test again. Hell even guns might have a bad day, certainly shooters do.

I for the life of me cannot limp my PM9 which many can, but I can for the life of my limp my G19 IF I TRY.

I think what you should do is start working on some good defense ammo and in my P380 I now shoot the corbon power ball as it feeds just so smooth and is so reliable. I have good luck with the corbon dpx round also but I just keep coming back to the power ball due to its reliability. Not sure the BG will like either round if he has to feel it.

My P380 hated 102 grain golden sabres rounds, just hated it, so I said screw it and just moved on, was not the end of the world as there are just too many good defense 380 rounds out there to choose from. Find the one that works perfect, shoots where u aim and just stick with it. Not alot of room in these little guns for any margin of error and some of the nose design of some of these defense rounds can give issues...

I can normally tell and see when it is time to go home from the range, towards the end of my session, I seem to be all over the target and that is because I am getting tired and actually don't realize it.

I shoot alot (not recommended) at 7-10 yards and I just pull up a damn chair at the range and just enjoy the shoot. I just don't feel like running and hiding behind a barrel or tree etc, not that that is not good, I just don't cuddle up to that stuff. I enjoy a relazing shoot at the distance I feel I can hit something. My point is that i get tired and as much as I love to shoot, I finally have to tell myself IT IS TIME TO GO HOME JOCKO..

My wife limped her kel tec 32 so much that I finally peddled it, and it was definitely her to. She has never had one issue with the G19, but hates my PM9.:31:

[xzhync]

I have been doing a fair amout of research on defense ammo for the P380. In fact, I was at the range today to test one out...the Doubletap 380 with the barnes bullet. This round did fine for me. My first stovepipe today was with Winchester PDX1. Normally, that ammo is fine, except I get an occasional "failure to charge the first round" with that round...even when charging with the slide stop lever. It is odd with that ammo. Most of the time it charges and cycles fine, but I have had problems with a couple of boxes. I am starting to think it is a lot problem with that ammo...maybe some of it is a little out of dimensional spec. I will have problems with one box, but the next box will charge just fine. I like the performance stats and postive feedback on the PDX1. I have looked at youtube videos showing water jug tests through denim. It seems to do pretty well with decent expansion and penetration.

Another one that does well is the corbon dpx. I tried that ammo, but there is a raised ring around the case which seems to cause some friction with ejection when hand cycling. I was trying the Doubletap because it is the same bullet and specs only with a Nickle plated case. Seems to cycle smoother. I also have the powerball. Jocko, you are right, the powerball cycles perfectly well. It is a lighter bullet (70gr) and doesn't seem to retain all of it's weight from the youtube tests I have seen. It seems to have core/jacket separation issues. That may not be a total bad thing, though. Could cause a larger wound channel. I have also tried some extreme shock enhanced penetration ammo. Seems to be a powerful round. I can't find alot of tests on it, though. In theory, it sounds good, but I know people are sceptical of it. So right now, I am between PDX1, Doubletap (Barnes) and Powerball. It may be time to start doing my own waterjug tests. I am probably overthinking all of this. I just want to get the best possible ammo since the 380 is a small and less powerful gun. Of course, this time of year I am carrying my PM9 quite a bit more.

[Ivan]

I had a lot of problems with my P380 until I sent it back to Kahr for a good overhaul. Since then the couple of problems I've had have been ME, not the gun. If you were having gun issues, you'd have more than 3 problems in 400+ rounds.

How about Hornady Critical Defense as a SD load? I shot some today and was impressed with the accuracy and lack of recoil. It seems to be getting good reviews from what I've heard around here.

[oldtex]

Even though he doesn't need my validation, I agree with Jocko 100% on this one. I often think a new word for limp wristing should be implemented as it mentally paints a picture of unmanliness which in many cases is uncalled for.

As the new term for "limp wristing", how about we call it "insufficient recoil resistance"?

I had a clean, lubed, broken-in 3rd Generation Glock 19 stovepipe on me with Win 124 gr NATO ammo a few weeks ago at the range where I do most of my training. At the time I was shooting 1-handed and moving vigorously (translation: running) away from the target simultaneously. I was IMHO providing "insufficient recoil resistance".