9mm Defense Round Test Results

[Allblackedout]

Here are the test results of different manufactures self-defense round. I will let you be the judge and decide what you carry in your gun as a self defense round, as for me I carry Federal HST124 grain JHP.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/SaleenGT/My%20Album/9mmammotest1.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/SaleenGT/My%20Album/9mmammotest2.jpg

[dusty10]

Everyone of those looks like it would really hurt. I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of any of them.

[OldLincoln]

I use Federal HST147 grain +P JHP for my 9mm and Federal HST 230 grain JHP for my 45. I really confident they will consistently stop a couple jugs filled with water. I am less confident yet trusting my life that they will stop a BG.

[dusty10]

Forgive the stupid question but what does the HST stand for? I've been using Speer gold dot 124 JHP for self defense and their lawman 124 FMJ for range pratcice. Since it's the same bullet for training as defense it always made sense to me to go that route.

[Steve-$]

I carry either Speer Gold Dot 124 GR +P JHP, or Remington Golden Saber 124 GR +P JHP when carrying my K9.

They both work great for my needs.

I really like everything that I have read and seen about the Winchester Ranger SXT 127 GR +P+ JHP, but am just not interested in explaining to a jury as to why I was using +P+ ammo in a gun that is only rated for +P ammo if I had to defend myself.

[Allblackedout]

Forgive the stupid question but what does the HST stand for? I've been using Speer gold dot 124 JHP for self defense and their lawman 124 FMJ for range pratcice. Since it's the same bullet for training as defense it always made sense to me to go that route.

Hydra Shok Technology

[Bawanna]

Forgive the stupid question but what does the HST stand for? I've been using Speer gold dot 124 JHP for self defense and their lawman 124 FMJ for range pratcice. Since it's the same bullet for training as defense it always made sense to me to go that route.

This is exactly what I do with 45. Gold Dot 230 JHP and Lawman 230 FMJ when I can afford it. I've been shooting mostly reloads for awhile. Still use the Gold Dot for carry.

I went to a Winchester workshop where they shot a similar test of all these bullets, into gelatin, thru denim, thru windshield glass, all kinds of stuff. I can tell you that the SXT bullet petal is razor sharp, it cuts like the dickens. I did'nt drink enough of their kool aid to switch from gold dot but our instructors did and the dept uses the winchester. I have tested it and it runs in my guns just fine. I wouldn't feel bad about carrying it, just staying with my old ways.

[Dietrich]

Looks like there is a copious amount of really good self defense ammo out there and that`s a good thing.In my 9`s I carry either Remington Golden Saber or Speer Gold Dot both in 124 grain +P.In my .45 I carry Remington 230 grain Bonded Golden Saber.Is there a website that has information on bullet performance in actual shootings?

[jocko]

I notice in this test NO CORBON DPX test. It willdo exactly as the HST round will do. They all oook pretty damn good to me. course none are worth a fook if they don't fire everytime out of your gun. that has to be number 1.

[Allblackedout]

I notice in this test NO CORBON DPX test. It willdo exactly as the HST round will do. They all oook pretty damn good to me. course none are worth a fook if they don't fire everytime out of your gun. that has to be number 1.

Is that the one without the polymer ball or does it have a polymer ball too?

[jocko]

no the dpx round is an all copper barnes HP round, you will get super fully pedal expansion and thhose pedals are super sharp to. Almost 100% bullet weight retention. The power ball has the nylon tip on it. It doesnt expand like the dpx round but if it won't feed in any 9mm, then it is time to peddle the gun.

[TheTman]

Corbon Pow'rball has the polymer ball. DPX I think stands for Deep Penetration Xtreme and doesn't have the polymer ball.

[kwilly]

A newbie question perhaps (sorry), but I'm trying to figure out the difference between these two pictures. Were the two samples shot at different ranges? If not, why do they look different?

[OldLincoln]

A newbie question perhaps (sorry), but I'm trying to figure out the difference between these two pictures. Were the two samples shot at different ranges? If not, why do they look different?It's okay to be a newbie and ask questions! They look different because the bottom picture shows the used bullets bottoms up - the back side of the bullet.

[kwilly]

Well, that was almost too obvious! Makes perfect sense now that I know (funny how that works).

Thanks, OldLincoln!

[Allblackedout]

no the dpx round is an all copper barnes HP round, you will get super fully pedal expansion and thhose pedals are super sharp to. Almost 100% bullet weight retention. The power ball has the nylon tip on it. It doesnt expand like the dpx round but if it won't feed in any 9mm, then it is time to peddle the gun.


Corbon Pow'rball has the polymer ball. DPX I think stands for Deep Penetration Xtreme and doesn't have the polymer ball.

Thx guys just wasn't to familiar with their lineup of various rounds and what they were all about.

[Jeff00042]

They all look pretty good to me. I agree with Jocko. Reliability has to be the #1 consideration.

[Goffman]

Here are the test results of different manufactures self-defense round. I will let you be the judge and decide what you carry in your gun as a self defense round, as for me I carry Federal HST124 grain JHP.


I might have missed this information in the thread, but out of what pistol were these rounds fired? Was it a PM9?

[Rotorflyr]

Honestly any of the big manufacturers sd rounds should do the job (if you do your's) like Jocko said, First And Foremost It Needs To Work In YOUR Gun.

It's also worthwhile to have a second (and/or) third choice that works in case your "favorite" isn't available. I also like to choose one that I can (almost) always find locally, cause sometimes it just isn't feasible (or don't want) to wait for mail order (even if it saves some pennies)

[BeauNC]

I know Kahr has approved their guns for +P ammo, but is +P+ too much? I'm assuming that means its even more pressure than just +P.

[Bawanna]

Correct. I'd not endorse +P+. I don't even use +P but Kahrs will run with it.

[jocko]

if u notice there is not alot of offering in +P+ ammop. so that ought to tell any shooter something. If u truly desire more power, but a 40 cal and be done with it. Why wanna push the envelope all the time.

[Bill K]

Any of you guys ever try Black Hills 124 +P? I think of this round as the frugal mans Speer GD or Remington GS.

Bill K.

[TheTman]

Has anyone heard of this: I was reading about self defense ammo, and the "expert" on that web sight says to stay away from the 147 gr 9mm loads. That the cartridge was designed for 115 - 125 gr bullets, and the 147 gr is too heavy to push to required velocity for the HP petals to open up, and that it may not feed reliably in some older weapons, he didn't like them at all, said it was a foolish fad that started several years ago.
In testing reloads with a friends Beretta 92, we found that the 147 gr loads did not group near as well as the lighter grain bullets. That's the only complaint I have about them. I don't carry a 9mm right now, but may be doing so in the future, if Boberg ever gets his pistol on the market.
Don't shoot the messenger, just reporting what I found on some self defense ammo website. Just wondering if anyone else has heard anything like that.

[BeauNC]

I've read similar "expert" reports. From everything I've read, I'm sticking with 115 grain for practice and 124 grain for defense.

[melissa5]

I've been using Speer gold dot 124 JHP for self defense and their lawman 124 FMJ for range pratcice. Since it's the same bullet for training as defense it always made sense to me to go that route.

Count me in on this thinking also.

That 2nd #11 is pretty like a work of art...a brass sun and the 1st #7 looks like a flower.

[wyntrout]

I try to stick with 124-125-grain 9mm, but I'll use cheap 115-grain FMJ at the range. I don't figure it makes much difference at 7 yards or so. Supposedly, the 9mm was designed with 124-grain ammo in mind, as the .45 was with 230-grain. With the .380, I stay with the 90 to 95 grain ammo. I have Buffalo Bore 90-grain +P JHP and 95-grain +P FMJ Flat Nosed, and 95-grain Ranger T JHP, standard velocity/pressure. Everybody should test and use the ammo that shoots POA=POI for them. I had a Walther PPK/S and it preferred 95-grain, I believe, shooting POA=POI with that but not the 90-grain. This is important when you don't have adjustable sights, especially in elevation. Wynn:)

[jlottmc]

I try to stick with 124-125-grain 9mm, but I'll use cheap 115-grain FMJ at the range. I don't figure it makes much difference at 7 yards or so. Supposedly, the 9mm was designed with 124-grain ammo in mind, as the .45 was with 230-grain. With the .380, I stay with the 90 to 95 grain ammo. I have Buffalo Bore 90-grain +P JHP and 95-grain +P FMJ Flat Nosed, and 95-grain Ranger T JHP, standard velocity/pressure. Everybody should test and use the ammo that shoots POA=POI for them. I had a Walther PPK/S and it preferred 95-grain, I believe, shooting POA=POI with that but not the 90-grain. This is important when you don't have adjustable sights, especially in elevation. Wynn:)

Sorry Wynn, the 45 acp was supposed to be a 200 gr truincated cone type bullet (like the current crop of 40 fmj's). 9mm has a history of being a lead based round weighing in around 130 gr (turn of the century) and having the jacket added to it later. The current 9mm load in use by the military and NATO is a 147 grain +P rated round. The 380 was designed to run about 85 -95 gr. if memory serves.

[jocko]

not sure the 9mm kahr was desinged around the 124 grain rounds, but they tell me that is what they test fire their guns with. No doubt if any 9mm won't shoot 115 grain rounds, it isn't worth the salt its made out of, IMO.

[fitpro]

Sorry Wynn, the 45 acp was supposed to be a 200 gr truincated cone type bullet (like the current crop of 40 fmj's). 9mm has a history of being a lead based round weighing in around 130 gr (turn of the century) and having the jacket added to it later. The current 9mm load in use by the military and NATO is a 147 grain +P rated round. The 380 was designed to run about 85 -95 gr. if memory serves.

^^^This is one of my first posts and I don't want it to be viewed as confrontational. The NATO round in 9mm is 124 gr that is slightly less than +p. It's a hot round but not quite +p, only about 5% above the SAAMI 9mm standard, while +p loads are about 10% above, IIRC. (I have been wrong before...:eek:)

[airsix]

In testing reloads with a friends Beretta 92, we found that the 147 gr loads did not group near as well as the lighter grain bullets. That's the only complaint I have about them.

That is likely just the result of a load tuning issue or a characteristic of the Baretta barrel (which I am not familiar with). 147gr 9mm loads can be highly accurate in part because the longer bullet is better stabilized by more contact area with the barrel. I had a G19 that would shoot sub 1 inch at 25 yards with Hornady xtp 147gr and AA #2 when the OAL was correct. OAL is critical for achieving correct pressures and good accuracy because the bullet must match up with the chamber's free-bore (space ahead of chamber where barrel has no riflings.). The Glock has a free-bore that is perfect for 147gr ammo. On the other hand I cannot shoot 147gr ammo in my beloved CZ P0-1 because it's free-bore is too short. Don't blame the bullet weight alone. It's just one variable in a system.

[chrish]

The 'experts' that are claiming bunk on 147gr ammo are either A) living in the past or B) you are reading an old copy of an article from 10+ years back. Tests are all over the place on modern 147gr (standard load, not even +P) that put the penetration and expansion results the same as any other load. The old purpose of 147 was to give some weight to the bullet to penetrate barriers, particularly safety glass on cars, etc. +P also solves that problem in the lighter weight bullets.

Don't get all caught up in +P vs standard load debate. Check the tests, do your own tests and homework, settle on the one you feel you are most accurate with, recoil tolerance, etc. They will all do the job if called upon. A 9mm round in any weight (of the same design) isn't going to bounce off anything more or less than one of it's siblings. Meaning for example, 124gr +P Winchester PDX1 vs it's 147gr standard load sibling. If the round you are using is good at preventing clogging and/or expanding consistently w/ clothing material, penetrates in the 13-15" range, you should be good to go.

This of course is ALL dependent on the particular barrel length you are working with. Keep that in mind. If you find a test w/ with any caliber on a 4-4.5" barrel but you are carrying a 3" barrel, best to run some tests yourself or look for another test already done.

+P+ is marketing hype, will/can damage many firearms over time, serves no purpose IMO.

[JERRY]

What gun was used for all the test rounds?

Aside from all rounds expanding well, what was the penetration?

[mcbowflex]

What gun was used for all the test rounds?

Aside from all rounds expanding well, what was the penetration?

I would also like to know if this was fired from a CW9 or if not what the barrel length was.

[muggsy]

I don't know about you guys, but I've never been in a SHTF situation with a water jug. I want to see some tests done on flesh and bone. And BTW, the only one I know who wears four layers of denim is Jocko and I'm not gonna mess with him.

[kahrinca]

My CW9 doesn't seem to like the Federal HST in 147gr (P9HST2). It does not feed reliably. It seems that whenever I shoot it there's a stovepipe. I usually don't shoot much of it due to expense but don't seem to have the same problem with GD 124gr +P.

I was wondering if anyone else has experienced the same with the CW9, or other Kahr with this particular defense round?

[mcbowflex]

I've ran some 147 Gr HSTs through my CW9 without issue. Not any considerable amount, but the ones I did run through it were fine.

[skribble]

In testing reloads with a friends Beretta 92, we found that the 147 gr loads did not group near as well as the lighter grain bullets.

I've tested and in winter I use 147 gr Loads in both my Beretta 92 and CM9 (Winchester Ranger and Federal HST). And they work flawlessly in both.

I think the "reload" part of the test could account for the inaccuracy.

( In summer use Gold Dot 124s: sp in CM9 and +P in Beretta )