Please talk me out of it

[erice303]

I have been wanting to get a j frame for some time now, but the urge has never really been that strong. For the last few months i have been saving up to buy a PM9 because i keep finding my self gabbing the p380 instead of the G26, and i do fell under gunned while carying it. I just saw that Smith and wesson just released a limited number of M&P 340 without the internal locking system, and i am dying to get one. I am not under any allusion that i will be able to carry magnum ammunition out of a 13.3oz gun but 135gr +P load has a very good track record as a man stopper from short barrels. And lets be honest it looks awesome.

I plan on pocket carrying and am a little conserened with the printing, and that my lust for this pocket cannon will not survive a few range dates.

What do you guys think?

[garyb]

I don't know what cal you are looking into, but my future son-in-law (to be married to my daughter on 1/1/11) just purchsed a light Jframe 357mag. Our first trip to the range proved to be disappointing. It shot 38's ok, but the 357mag was horrible to shoot. It was not terribly accurate, especially at 10 yrds. At 7 yrds it was fair, not good.

Now I have a PM40 and have shot other 40's (glock and springfield). I don't find the 40 to be that snappy as others describe. It is a very shootable cal. However, this 357 was intense, meaning not fun....almost scarry. After shooting it, I asked myself...why? I know he is very disappointed :( in how he spent his hard earned dollars and gift certificates, as he was going to buy a TC Encore and just had to have the Jframe. Same hankering you seem to have. It's a nice looking piece and is pocketable. It is going to take him ALOT of practice to get used to shooting this piece. Good luck with your decision.

[piglaw]

I've had just about all the sub-compact pieces out there at one point or another; all are a compromise. I find that I just don't carry a more potent, holstered belt piece any more because of the active nature of my work and the trouble of keeping it hidden. Had a PM40 for some time, but it's too bulky for me to carry in a front pants pocket without printing; PM9 would be the same. Too bad, because I loved the caliber and piece, (although it would induce hand tremors after a few shots.) Had a Ruger LCP for awhile, which carried beautifully, but wasn't in love with it. Traded it in on an LCR, which is great, but does print somewhat in a front pants pocket, depending on the pants. I've just ordered a P380 for the times I want to go armed, but don't want the bulk of the .38 LCR. Sure, it's only a .380, but it's better than a rock. So I, at least, really want options... which means get both. Hope that helps.

[gb6491]

I'll not try and talk you out of a "J" frame or similar size revolver as I'm pretty fond of them, but do have some food for thought:
I have a .357 "J" frame. It's an all steel model 60-9. I rarely shoot .357 in it as the recoil can be brutal; especially in the heavier weight bullets. I believe all post 1966 "J" frames are built on the "J Magnum" frame. It's slightly larger than it's predecessor and IMO pushes the package to the limits of pocket carry. I'm not saying pocket carry can't be done with them (as many folks do), but think you might be happier with an older .38Spl. model, especially, if you don't plan on feeding the newer ones .357.
Here are some shots of my 60-9 and an older square butt, model 36 (I prefer the 36 for pocket carry, even with the added bulk of the square grip frame):
http://i48.tinypic.com/2h83ek5.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/15xwh2h.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/9uw2le.jpg
FWIW, my model 60-9 is very similar in size to the CW9. The Model 60 is thicker through the cylinder area. The CW9 is ever so slighty longer and has a slight amount more height (which would be equalized if Kahr made a flush fitting magazine for it).

Regards,
Greg

[jlottmc]

I have a Taurus 605, and love it. Full house magnums aren't bad at all, kinda enjoyable in fact. With a good pocket holster, it will print one big lump, and that's about it. Get one if you like it, or shoot it first if you can.

[garyb]

The PM40 (I carry daily) or PM9 (same basic size) don't print if you use the correct pocket holster. I don't get the hand tremors from it that some describe. These guns are both under an inch wide and you will be hard pressed to find thinner guns of this power, as far as pocket print goes; unless you go to .380 formats - which have the advantage of being smaller and lighter and are also fine if that is what you decide to carry. It is a personal preference and we are all different. I'd look at length, height and width dimensions as well as weight, if you are getting it for pocket carry. The .40S&W, 9 or .380 are all very pleasant to shoot, but I don't think that is your question. The Jframe revolver will be wider than the PM and most pocket carry semiautos (due to the cylinder), but the jframe will be lighter unless you compare to .380's. However, without getting into caliber debate, or Jframe vs semi issues: If pocket print is the issue, I do suggest you check out www.pocketholsters.com (http://www.pocketholsters.com) . This holster has a back flap of leather that is the only print on the pant - rectangular like a wallet). The leather back flap can also be removed, but I've found it to be such a nice feature to eliminate print, that it is essential to me. With this holster, the PM40 (or PM9) or any pocket sized gun including the Jframe, will carry very comfortably and nicely in front or back pocket of most pants. This company (Guru) makes this pocket holster for most pocket size guns. Please understand that I am not beating up the Jframe at all becaue it is an excellent revolver design. I was merely pointing out my son-in-laws experience with the "light jframe in the 357". He may eventually develop a fondness for that light 357 jframe, or just shoot 38's out of it...I don't know. I'm just giving input to your inquiry. I'm sure you know what you are looking for anyway, so no one will talk you into nor out of anything...ha ha. Good luck

[Bawanna]

I'd get the PM9 first (I have patience issues also) and then get the Jframe. Unless your older than Jocko time is on your side and you'll no doubt end up with both anyhow.
You know the PM9, so while your bonding with that you can be carrying it around while your research revolvers.
I love revolvers too for many reasons too.

You gotta have both, just set the priority list.

[jlottmc]

I forgot to mention, there is no way on God's little green Earth that we of all people would try to talk you or anyone else out of buying another gun. Just not gonna happen.
J-Frames are wonderful, and have an almost cult like following, they serve well too, but they are plentiful, and Smith is not the only word in small wheel guns like that these days. Buy whichever you want, then save the money for the other and don't look back.

[8th SPS USAF]

If you buy the J frame, and pocket carry, it will not show that it is
a gun. Looks like maybe something like a roll coins. If you pocket
carry a semi, people think they can guess it is a pistol. I carry front right pocket for my small guns with no holsters. I have for years and never
a problem. If you get a J frame, get one without a hammer spur. IMO

Good luck

8th

[Dietrich]

Sorry,but I can`t talk you out of it.I have a J-frame 642 that I carry IWB and pocket.It`s loaded with 125 gr.+P Winchester Silvertips.When I look at those silver bullets I kind of feel like Clayton Moore.[ Clayton Moore played the Lone Ranger for years on tv for those of you too young to know.] I also have a PM9 that I carry most of the time.It also is carried IWB and in my pocket depending what I`m wearing.I don`t feel under-gunned with either.Get both.

[O'Dell]

I'd get the PM9 first (I have patience issues also) and then get the Jframe. Unless your older than Jocko time is on your side and you'll no doubt end up with both anyhow.
You know the PM9, so while your bonding with that you can be carrying it around while your research revolvers.
I love revolvers too for many reasons too.

You gotta have both, just set the priority list.

I agree on the PM9 - and then I would forget the J-Frame. Don't own a wheel gun and have no desire to do so.

[JustinN]

I'm not sure exactly how it compares, but I had a S&W 386 SC Mountain Lite. Nice small (not pocket by any means), super light weight gun...but I shot 357 +P out of it....it literally bruised my hand after a cylinder full....needless to say I did not shoot that gun much....just my .02 on small, lightweight guns with +p 357.....

[jocko]

I think the Smith J frame is the most beautiful little gun ever made, in damn near any version, but that being said they are a handfull to shoot good and when u step up to the +P and beyond then the fun ends, and so does accuracy. I love my Model 60 but I can't hit jack sh-t with it let alone the pain and agony of shooting it. Certainly never a 200 round session gun like my PM9 is and has been on many shoots.

[dusty10]

I love my old j frames (model 60 no dash and model 36-3) which are chambered in 38 special and are easy to shoot. Anyone that wants to shoot .357 out of such a light, small gun is going to be disappointed. Even the Ruger SP101 in .357 is a handful during a long range session and those are much heavier than the new light weight Smith J frames chambered for .357. Buy the PM9 now and search for a vintage Smith J frame in 38 special. You'll be happy you did.

[erice303]

Thanks for all of your advice guys/gals. I went to the range today and tried out some revolvers. Coming from autos it is quit a bit different. Tried out the ruger lcr, smith and wesson J frames, and 38 bodyguard. The resoil on these revolvers is worse than i expected even standard pressure 38 specials felt much more than p380 or the G26. One side effect of these revolvers is that the recoil on my guns felt like nothing.

What i like about this snub nose revolver
1. night sight
2. It is light 13.3 oz empty
3. can shoot 38, 38+P, and 357(probably will never do it but like the option)
4. i think a revolver will make me a better shooter
5. i think it looks bad ass
6. There is a limited version out that does not have a internal safety lock (has been known to lock by its self :eek:)
7. $50 manufacturer rebate

What i don't like
A. only 5 shot
B. trigger is much worse than glock or kahr (causing less shooter accuracy)
C. slow re lodes
D. harder recoil

#6 is the real reason that i am having trouble holding back, and i do agree that one day i wil most likley end up having both.

Ok guys just look at this thing
http://i51.tinypic.com/2iicw9z.jpg

http://i51.tinypic.com/okwnzm.jpg
whitecoyotie if you have a problem with me posting you picture just let me know and i will take it down

[dusty10]

A vintage J frame like a model 60 weighs 19 ozs. empty. That extra weight tames the recoil just like it does in semi-auto pistols. That black shrouded model you posted does look cool though. Smith triggers are pretty easy to smooth up and make easier to pull.

[erice303]

A vintage J frame like a model 60 weighs 19 ozs. empty. That extra weight tames the recoil just like it does in semi-auto pistols. That black shrouded model you posted does look cool though. Smith triggers are pretty easy to smooth up and make easier to pull.

I have never been much in to modifying guns, but the first think i would do if i got it is to dryfire it a thousand time to help break in the trigger. if that does not do the trick i may look at a trigger job later on.

I am still leaning towards getting the j frame, but i will give it until Friday before i make a decision.

Eric

[Bawanna]

That is a cool looking revolver. I think I'd just keep my eyes peeled and look for an older model pre need a key to shoot it. You can often times find really nice ones and since many consider a revolver a dinosaur you can find some decent deals.
In this category I 'm a semi firm believer that older is better.

My personal opinion on triggers is if your not intimately familiar and know what your doing, dont go there. The 1000 dry fires or the old pressure on the hammer while pulling is fine but don't go inside.

I compare it to my old work on my car days, don't miss those a bit. I would go all out to make it go, get it to run, maybe go faster but I don't do brakes. Brakes are important, triggers are important.

Just my nickels worth.

[dusty10]

Around here, there are quite a few gunsmiths who will do an action job for about $30. Makes a huge difference. +1 on looking for an older j frame. They are generally less expensive than the new models, had certain amount of hand fitting of internals and just generally better made. (Look for pre 1980) Of course as discussed, the new models are lighter. Having said all that, as much as I have a soft spot for wheel guns, I'd never trade my PM9 for one. I just like having both and besides, with a revolver, you take your empty cases with you. :cool:

[ltxi]

PM9 is what pried me out of slicked up J-frames and Colt 380s for uc carry after 20 plus years. Would not sell my J-frames on a bet....but it's mostly nostalgia.

[mr surveyor]

I've owned and carried several j-frames over the years for my field gun, the last of which was a S&W 637 with hammer. Since I don't care the least bit about pocket carry, and prefer the option if single action when firing snake shot loads, the hammerless DA never excited me. My problem with the j-frame, as well as most revolver platforms, is the extreme rounded high grip that takes my short stubby trigger finger out of the action. A few months ago I ran across a really good deal on a Ruger SP101 3" in .357 that has a much, much better grip feel that allows me a perfect alignment of the sights. Yes, the weight is near double the airweight, but the overall platform is wonderful. Hot 158 grain .357 mag loads in the SP101 are as manageable (if not more so) as 125 grain +p 38 special loads in the airweight, and 38 spl target loads in the Ruger are about as punishing as a 22 cal revolver. It isn't a pocket gun, although I do hear many folks claim they pocket carry the 2-1/4" barrel model. The Ruger trigger does have a considerably different feel than the Smith trigger as you can actually feel the staging of the Ruger trigger just before the break, whereas the smith trigger is just a single smooth pull and it breaks when it's ready. Some like the feel of that last staging of the trigger, some don't.... I love it.

If you're dead set on a Smith, that's fine. There is absolutely no reason to spend money on a "trigger job" on a NIB j-frame. As was said, just sit in front of the tv and dry fire the snot out of it. I dry fired my last one about 500 times prior to actually wringing it out with lead, and dropped the trigger down 1.5 to 2 pounds and it smoothed to a silky smooth feel. Actually, my former 637 trigger in DA was almost identical in feel to my CW9 trigger. And, straight from S&W, there is no requirement to use snap caps for dry firing their modern revolvers...you ain't gonna hurt them.

As I said, I never had the urge to shove my defensive weapon down into an pants pocket where I couldn't easily access it from a seated position, so I either carry IWB or OWB (both with cover garment (occassionally shoulder holster of coat pocket in winter). All of my OWB holsters have been high ride pancake style holsters for the revolvers, and they all carry well and conceal well... even the 3 inch SP101.

No collection is complete without at least one revolver of defensive caliber. Find what works for you and latch on to it.:D


surv

[jeepster09]

I think the Smith J frame is the most beautiful little gun ever made, in damn near any version, but that being said they are a handfull to shoot good and when u step up to the +P and beyond then the fun ends, and so does accuracy. I love my Model 60 but I can't hit jack sh-t with it let alone the pain and agony of shooting it. Certainly never a 200 round session gun like my PM9 is and has been on many shoots.


Have it Magnaported and shooting plus p's no big deal....love mine!

[shadyscott999]

I love my PM9, but I love my 340 PD more. Recoil is brutal with full bore 357's but it can be done. The PD is actually only 11.9 oz empty. That little bit of weight makes a huge difference in a pocket.

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu106/shadyscott999/IMG_20101124_202218.jpg

[jlottmc]

What i don't like
A. only 5 shot
B. trigger is much worse than glock or kahr (causing less shooter accuracy)
C. slow re lodes
D. harder recoil

#6 is the real reason that i am having trouble holding back, and i do agree that one day i wil most likley end up having both.



Let's address the downs that you listed: A) well not too much to say there save the fact that these little single stack autos have a low capacity as well (i.e. Kahr) B) the trigger is workable, and has been safely worked and carried for years upon years upon years, yes it's heavy, but that is the point (most PD's like a long heavy pull, I'll give you their line of reasoning later, but they think it makes a safer gun under duress (Kahr has a long but lighter trigger too, but think about the mechanics of and the true definitions at work here)) C) reload times might surprise you, keep in mind that every speed record that a pistol holds is done by you got it a double action revolver, and with a speed loader with a modest amount of training the reload times are almost as fast as a magazine, plus when it comes right down to it, those same small single stacks really do reload just as fast if not a bit slower than the wheel gun D) well duh, you actually have a more powerful cartridge in the round gun (yes I know that in 9mm and 38 spl the numbers look pretty close, but then why do we really like rifles for combat? More powder to burn means more lethality downrange, it works out that way trust me here). The other side of that coin is that a revolver has different geometry than an auto. That being said the old single action revolvers let the gun roll in the hand, and they work well at it. #6 yes you will own both, and much like the 1911 some consider the j-frame and essential part of any good defensive battery (Clint Smith yes him, Masaad Ayoob, Jerry Miculek as well) they have a niche and a purpose and do what they do well. Why then are they still so popular? You do the math and let us know how the coin toss goes. Not to bag or beat anyone as all are entitled to their opinions, just shedding a little light on it.

[jeepster09]

Shady

Have it Magnaported! Works wonders on the little J-frames. You won't be dissapointed, by the way you can use the US Mail to ship it to them as long as you remove the cylinder first.
Mag-na-port International--Porting Pricelist & Miscellaneous Services (http://www.magnaport.com/misc.html)

[jocko]

Shady

Have it Magnaported! Works wonders on the little J-frames. You won't be dissapointed, by the way you can use the US Mail to ship it to them as long as you remove the cylinder first.
Mag-na-port International--Porting Pricelist & Miscellaneous Services (http://www.magnaport.com/misc.html)

don't want to flame you on this but I am pretty sure that you cannot ship a revolver through U.S. mail if the cylinder is out of the gun and sitting on your desk. If the serial number is on the frame of the gun, It cannot go U.S. mail. A ffl dealer who has registered with his local post office and provided the necessary paper work can indeed ship ffl to ffl but you and I cannot do that.

Now I will gladly say I am dead wrong, if you can show me that in print as a government regulation/exemption etc.

[mr surveyor]

don't want to flame you on this but I am pretty sure that you cannot ship a revolver through U.S. mail if the cylinder is out of the gun and sitting on your desk. If the serial number is on the frame of the gun, It cannot go U.S. mail. A ffl dealer who has registered with his local post office and provided the necessary paper work can indeed ship ffl to ffl but you and I cannot do that.

Now I will gladly say I am dead wrong, if you can show me that in print as a government regulation/exemption etc.


Ditto that.

You can ship the barrel, slide, magazine, cylinder, etc, but you don't even want to attempt to ship the receiver via USPS. Technically, you can take the "fire control mechanism" out of a Sig P250, and ship the rest of the pistol. Without the receiver (with the serial number) it ain't a gun.

And the ffl can stick the thing in the $8-9 first class box and send it anywhere you need it to go. There are different regs for shipping "common carrier (like UPS) that allow you to ship a handgun to the manufacturer of origin, but if you follow "their rules" and report it as a firearm you will pay dearly.

I say make friends with a local ffl and pay them 10 buck or so plus USPS costs and do it the easy, legal way. (done it quite a few times that way)


surv

[jeep45238]

Get a S&W 610 instead. Send the cylinder out to be redone for 10mm Magnum. Schazam, .40S&W, 10MM Auto, 10MM Auto Magnum.

http://www.infiniteweb.com/10mm/IMG_3334.JPG


http://www.bren-ten.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/10mm_mag_comparrison.jpg

[jocko]

damn that 100mm magnum is just one hell of a round... Nice job jeep.

[10XArcher]

I am a newbie to "daily carry" but I have been carrying the PM9093N since the day that I bought it and nobody knows that I am armed. I use an IWB (crossbreed minituck) which I can wear at the 2:30 - 5:30 positions with NO PRINT at all. If I am wearing my suit jacket, sweater, hoodie, etc its on my hip at 3 or 4 O'clock. If I am wearing any dress cloths and no jacket I keep it up front at 2:30 and the minituck allows me to tuck in my dress shirt right over top of it and again - you would have no idea I am carrying. I am a shorter dude 5'9" so hiding anything is a chore. J Frames are nice but I did not like any of the lightweight models. The beauty of a J-frame is being able to shoot (and control) a magnum round which I feel is lost with the lightweight construction. I would go with the PM9 but I am of course bias... It really all comes down to what you like and what you will actually carry all the time. If your system is cumbersome or screams "look at me, I have a free gun for you can get it" you will likely leave that gun in the safe and hope for the best... I tried carrying a small j frame (was my father's service backup piece) in my pocket and hated the fact that it would tumble, swing and twist in my pocket. I have a friend with a P380 in a PCS holster and he loves it! Try a few different setups and see wht works best for you. Just a few random ramblings from someone who had the same question about 6 months ago...

[erice303]

Thank you for all your help. I have made a decision and should have my early Christmas present on Friday. Ill post pictures when i get it

[eastenn]

where's those pics?