Best .38 special snubnose round

[Dietrich]

I have read countless articles on the best 9mm defensive ammo but I carry a S&W 642 at times too.Do any of you have the inside track on what is the best defensive ammo for a .38 snubbie?As many of you know,the 642 is rated at +P but I wonder if a standard pressure round would perform better.I have no problem shooting either but Mrs.Dietrich doesn`t like +P and will not carry it in hers.She is loaded with standard pressure Hornady Critical Defense.Your input is greatly appreciated as always.

[robmcd]

I'm currently carrying Hornady Critical Defense FTX #90310 in my S&W 642 PowerPort Pro. It feels very similar to the Gold Dot 38 +P 125 gr. 53720/23720 to me. The Hornady Critical Defense FTX +P #90311 is slightly easier to handle than Gold Dot SB 38 +P 135 gr #53921/23921 which is a handful. All of the above will give suitable expansion when shot from a snubby, but the test results for the Hornady indicate that it may offer better expansion through mediums such as denim, etc. My personal preference is the Hornady non +P because follow-up shots are quicker due to lower recoil. I have not shot the Hornady at night yet to compare flash.

[jlottmc]

Sorry Dietrich, I carry and use .357. I don't even have any 38 spl in the house.

[mr surveyor]

lately I am somewhat torn on the issue of the lower velocity rounds like .38 spl, and whether the more agressive "looking" jhp offerings are really the best. I have a couple of old reloading buddies with lifetime experience shooting all types of varmints with handguns of various calibers. They both tend to like plain old lead, semi-wadcutters for almost all revolver duties. I am seriously considering revisiting the old style lsw rounds myself, both for target and carry, and might start reloading for my SP101. I'll just download a bunch of .357 mag brass for target/range and full house the carry loads.

I think the reasoning these guys have for using lsw bullet rather than the more agressive newer offering of jhp in the revolvers is due to possible lack of expansion of the slower velocity of standard pressure rounds, as well as getting the most bang for the buck from the lower pressure stuff with the lsw rounds which tend to make a better compression seal with the lands and grooves of the barrel than jacketed rounds. I think I may do a bit more research into the old lead semi-wadcutters myself.

surv

[steve666]

I use CorBon 125gr.

[robmcd]

lately I am somewhat torn on the issue of the lower velocity rounds like .38 spl, and whether the more agressive "looking" jhp offerings are really the best. I have a couple of old reloading buddies with lifetime experience shooting all types of varmints with handguns of various calibers. They both tend to like plain old lead, semi-wadcutters for almost all revolver duties. I am seriously considering revisiting the old style lsw rounds myself, both for target and carry, and might start reloading for my SP101. I'll just download a bunch of .357 mag brass for target/range and full house the carry loads.

I think the reasoning these guys have for using lsw bullet rather than the more agressive newer offering of jhp in the revolvers is due to possible lack of expansion of the slower velocity of standard pressure rounds, as well as getting the most bang for the buck from the lower pressure stuff with the lsw rounds which tend to make a better compression seal with the lands and grooves of the barrel than jacketed rounds. I think I may do a bit more research into the old lead semi-wadcutters myself.

surv

Good point. I once used them exclusively in my back-up gun. They're available today from Buffalo Bore (http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=110): standard pressure, short barrel, low flash 158 gr. SWC-HC. 850 fps/253 ft-lbs. I think I have some - will post a photo later.

[TheTman]

The Mrs. might like the 110 gr. Federal Low Recoil Hydra-Shok in 38 special. (not +P). A friend of mine with a bad wrist really likes the low recoil of it.

[garyb]

I agree. The Fed Hydrashock low recoil is an excellent choice....good ballistics too.

[robmcd]

This is the Buffalo Bore SWC-HC ammo I mentioned above (sorry for the crappy cell phone photos).

The proof is in the pudding - or rather the ballistic gelatin test. Here's a link to the .38 SPL test results page at Brass Fetcher Ballistic Testing (http://www.brassfetcher.com/38%20Special.html) that you may find of interest.

[Dietrich]

You guys are great.Thanks for the good information.

[ltxi]

Late to the party, but here's my two cents.....in a lightweight .38 snubby my "no-brainer" choice is the standard pressure 125gr Federal NyClad. A two decade old round...teflon coated lead HP once discontinued because of media hysteria over teflon coated "cop killer" bullets. There's a reason Federal, god bless them, recently put it back into production. Controllable and effective. Before I converted to the PM9 I carried a 442 with a spare five rounds in a speed strip or two for years as my uc/cc arm and never felt at all uncomfortable.

If you want the most effective first shot out of a lightweight 2" J-frame my answer would be Speer Gold Dot 135gr +p or the 357 version if it's rated for it. But if you think you might need to immediately pull the trigger again and actually hit something, especially under stress, I don't consider either a good choice.

Last bit....my without a doubt ammo choice for the heavier J-frame snubs, particularly my older model 60, is Speer GD Short Barrel 135gr +p.

[REACT]

If you want the most effective first shot out of a lightweight 2" J-frame my answer would be Speer Gold Dot 135gr +p

Last bit....my without a doubt ammo choice for the heavier J-frame snubs, particularly my older model 60, is Speer GD Short Barrel 135gr +p.

Bingo

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#.38spl/.357mag

Edit: sorry, didn't see the "no +P" caveat.

[oldtex]

I have read countless articles on the best 9mm defensive ammo but I carry a S&W 642 at times too.Do any of you have the inside track on what is the best defensive ammo for a .38 snubbie?As many of you know,the 642 is rated at +P but I wonder if a standard pressure round would perform better.I have no problem shooting either but Mrs.Dietrich doesn`t like +P and will not carry it in hers.She is loaded with standard pressure Hornady Critical Defense.Your input is greatly appreciated as always.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19914

Great (IMO) info in this thread at m4carbine.net, particularly on .38 loads, which ones work best, and why.

I carry CorBon 110 +P DPX or Speer Gold Dot +P 135 Short Barrel loads in my j-frames.

[jocko]

I still have my 1970 model 60, hardly ever shoot it but could not part with it either.

[ltxi]

I still have my 1970 model 60, hardly ever shoot it but could not part with it either.

x2..one of two guns I could never give up. You come by yours new also?

[100percent]

I bet you at contact distance a standard velocity 38 special will pass through who ever you are shooting. I usually load 158 grain lead semi wad cutter. They have about 700fps on them.

I hate to say it but I have a Taurus Snubby that is a tack driver even at 75 feet. I generally don't like Taurus' but can't fault this one.

So my vote is a lead round not jacketed at the lower velocity.

[jocko]

x2..one of two guns I could never give up. You come by yours new also?

I was a gun dealer for 40 years, but my Smith Distrubutor back then made crazy us smaller dealers buy 3 dog smiths for ever Model 60. I mean guns back then like the 32 terriers or the centennial which back then was very very unpolular and the 22/32 kit guns which aslo back then one could just not give away..:crazy:

If my mind serves me well (which at times it doesn't ) I think when I retired 15 years ago I still had the 32 terrier in the show case!!!!!!

[ltxi]

I was a gun dealer for 40 years, but my Smith Distrubutor back then made crazy us smaller dealers buy 3 dog smiths for ever Model 60. I mean guns back then like the 32 terriers or the centennial which back then was very very unpolular and the 22/32 kit guns which aslo back then one could just not give away..:crazy:

If my mind serves me well (which at times it doesn't ) I think when I retired 15 years ago I still had the 32 terrier in the show case!!!!!!

Yeah, I understand how highly prized these were back in the day. Hard to get. A personal bug that wouldn't rust in the jungle. Over the years I've undoubtedly slept with this gun under my hand more nights than I did with with my first two wives. And overall probably appreciated it more.

[sig225]

Hornady Critical Defense 110 gr FTX ...

[Bawanna]

Missed this one. I'm glad to hear that Nyclad stuff is around again. I still have my Colt Cobra (now affectionately referred to as my cat gun). I shot mostly the Nyclad as I didn't want to use +P stuff in it. Around me it's hard to find 38 anything that is standard velocity.

I rarely carry it anymore but I'm gonna find me a few boxes of the nyclad for those times I do. Wife might want to carry it after she gets her CPL soon also.

It's a sweet accurate shooter for a snubbie. First almost real caliber gun I ever got. Wouldn't take a bucket of cash for it. (well I guess it would depend on how big the bucket was).

[bigbob68]

I carry the Speer Gold Dot 135+p grain short barrel.

[CJB]

Folks talk about +P and such... light bullets, fast bullets. Maybe its just me, but I've always had a healthy respect for what a 200g round or truncated bullet will do in a .38 Special.

My father also carried 200g round nose as his duty ammo in his Chiefs model 36, for about 22 of his 25 years on the PD

Old school, but I think still a viable thing.

[bigbob68]

Just in the last 10 years there have been vast improvements in powder and PD loads. They aint your fathers round for sure, they are better. I don't ever carry reloads as a PD load due to possible lawsuits IF I had to use them in a lethal situation. Stick to modern PD ammo from your favorite maker.

[CJB]

Well... factory 200's (hard as hens teeth to get anymore... but I got boxes of em stashed)

Thinking more on it, I dont like 'em because the ol' man carried 'em. I like the heavy bullets for the same reason I prefer heavy bullets in any other cartridge/handgun combination. Just my way. I much prefer medium power easy going stuff, with a heavy bullet, to all the speedy stuff. Sort of like my taste in motorcycles!~

[RomeoFoxtrot]

Another good load from Buffalo Bore is their 150gr. Hard Cast Wadcutter.

[PaiN]

I missed this thread also.....Actually I did think to look here for a discussion on wheelie gum loads :rolleyes:
I started this thread over at THR just last night...
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=592210

Seems that there are some good loadings out their.....I do have some concerns about the DPX1 Bonded stuff.....

[Ljutic]

Remington Express R38S12 is my first choice. It's a 158g LSWHP +p load the has excellent expansion due to a softer lead than other 158 grain offerings.

[HadEmAll]

Without getting into the "what's best" thing, as I don't know, I'll just say I carry Winchester Ranger 125 grain +P in my LCR, as I like the exposed lead, but carry Speer Gold Dot 125 grain +P in my speed strips.

I like the contour of the Gold Dot bullet for reloads because they are rounded and harder. They "glide" into the cylinder, while the exposed lead and flat tip of the Win is more prone to snagging and shaving lead.

[sig225]

"All the above" loads are excellent chioces, with the variety of choices in todays market, It just comes down to personal preference ............. and "shot placement" ...... :D

[Chuck54]

Nyclad:)

[Barth]

2" snub nose 38s have been notorious for having bullet expansion issues.
By request of law enforcement Speer has developed a specific new hollow point for short barrel guns.
http://www.speer-ammo.com/products/short_brl.aspx

Specifically check the FBI protocal test of their 38+P -
http://www.speer-ammo.com/products/bullet_tests.htm

IMHO "there is no substitute".
This is THE round for J-Frames.