Bad Habits

[rkirk]

I took my CW9 to the range yesterday and had fun day, but shot terrible! I now have over 900 rounds through the pistol. I have developed some bad habits and at any distance past 20 feet pull to the side and down. As a lefty that means low right. At 60 feet I was only able to place one of two shots on a standard IDPA target. I was consistent and managed to repeat this miserable performance three more times! So I have been lazy and need to work on dry fire and proper grip. Because I shoot my Hi-Power much better I have to be honest and admit that I can that I can be sloppy and still shoot that pistol well. No excuse I have work to do, so encouragement and advise please. I have not ever shot double action with any real accuracy or consistency. I may need some hands on lessons. What ever it takes, I am crazy about my CW9!

-- Richard

[Bawanna]

The biggest step in fixing something that is broken is recognizing that it's broken in the first place. Your way ahead of the game and have already come up with a game plan to fix it.

You can do it.

I had a very similar experience last trip to the range myself. It was just bad karma from the minute I left the house. Later than usual, hence concern about crowding, my son in slow motion mode and me in fast, turtle and the hare syndrome. Then fighting my ill conceived handloads that I've now I beleive cured.
I took 6 head shots at 25 yards with my PM 45 and the head came out completely unscathed. No idea where those 6 bullets went but not where I wanted them too.
Guess I have some work to do also but it's the kind of work I enjoy.

You can do it. Keep us in the loop.

[jeep45238]

Yup...going through that myself.

Training it out of myself with a M57 and empty casings randomly in the magazine. Single action and random snaps is a great way to take care of the problem, if your gun won't feed empty casings.

My windage is fine, elevation is suffering. Guess that's a side effect of not getting to the range as much as I want. :)

[Kingcreek]

Start out a training session with focus on accuracy thru proper trigger control. The long DAO Kahr trigger takes some getting used to (or atleast it did for me). Start closer to the target and shoot slowly and deliberately. As you see your group size shrink and actually hitting the target where you want them to, THEN move a little farther back or try more rapid strings. I would rather spend an hour of range time firing 50 well placed rounds and develop more skill than hose out 300 misses and further ingrain some bad habits. Its easier to train right than "unlearn" bad habits.

[Bawanna]

An thats the truth right there. Unlearning bad things is not easy.

I laugh at new folks at the range that break out their shiney new gun, run the target down to the 25 yard line and start blasting, while I have my target at 3 yards with an old friend for a gun.

I do seem to have very good days and very bad days. On the bad days I think it's almost best to just knock off, BS with the range guys and try again another day.

Anyone else experience this phenomonen?

[recoilguy]

The other day I was at the range and I told the guy, frank, at the range if he needed someone to fill in for him sometime or if he wanted to shoot I would gladly sit ther take money and talk guns with guys because I would enjoy that a lot more then I did the results of my hour of shooting. So I hung around for another hour and just BSed pistols.

RCG

[OldLincoln]

I don't shoot as often or as much as most here. When I have been away for a while, I pose a bit bringing my gun up to shooting position and try to get my grip back. It's not very natural to me yet, kind of like my golf swing used to be. Played golf religiously, every Easter and Christmas, and never did get the hang of it.

For me the trick is to take the first mag 1 shot at a time and each very deliberately, looking at the result and consider the cause. With my eyes, I had to start bringing my small binoculars to see the target at 7yds. Anyway, I find that when I put it together, strangle grip & pushing hands together with the arms locking that puppy in, that my shots begin to count.

Some days are like magic and shots go where my mind tells them to. Since I can't see the sights I point shoot so that's a really good feeling. I leave with the "Watch out bad guys, I'm armed and very dangerous!" attitude.

[jocko]

I took my CW9 to the range yesterday and had fun day, but shot terrible! I now have over 900 rounds through the pistol. I have developed some bad habits and at any distance past 20 feet pull to the side and down. As a lefty that means low right. At 60 feet I was only able to place one of two shots on a standard IDPA target. I was consistent and managed to repeat this miserable performance three more times! So I have been lazy and need to work on dry fire and proper grip. Because I shoot my Hi-Power much better I have to be honest and admit that I can that I can be sloppy and still shoot that pistol well. No excuse I have work to do, so encouragement and advise please. I have not ever shot double action with any real accuracy or consistency. I may need some hands on lessons. What ever it takes, I am crazy about my CW9!

-- Richard

join the jocko left hand shooting club...:behindsofa:

kahrs have to be IMO the most difficult of all guns to shoot . The loooooong trigger is there by design but it will give you fits. I know, it gives me fits. I don't shoot it 1/10th as good as I do my G19. Lets face it not all people probably most people even are not 'good" shooters. Some guns will make u shine, like my tuned G19 and some guns will make you cry, like my tuned PM9. I admit i am not a good shooter. I just don't think there are to many people out there that can shoot a PM9 as good as a G19, I really believe that. Now one or two might prove me wrong but they are the upper top of good shooters to. But for the every day "Joe" , it just ain't gonna happen. accept your kahr for what it was desinged for. It is a close up personal defense gun that willno doubt save your life and will always be there when you need it. If you really wanna hit shotshell casing at 20 yards, best buy another gun. We all have seen 100's of shot grouping targets on this forum and lets face it not to many will cut a fat hog in the ass either..

[rkirk]

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the encouragement. Compared to some of the shooters I see in IDPA shoots I am a mid range or lower score shooter. I admit I am a wanna be Master, you know one of those guys that shoot in a third or forth of the time everyone else completes a stage with only 1 or 2 points down. Well, at 68 with stiff joints and trifocal glasses it will never happen.

What I hope for is to carry my CW9 in the CTAC and be able to draw the pistol in a safe manner and shoot well enough to protect my family and myself if all else fails and I am backed against the wall. I am part way there and only need to work on grip and trigger control to build confidence in using this pistol. It really is good to know other CCW guys and gals struggle with many of the same issues.

You are correct comparing golf and shooting. It only take one decent days shooting to make you think all of the time and money is well spent!

So thank you to this forum and fellow members, you are a great resource.

-- Richard

[Bawanna]

I'd remove that "it will never happen" phrase from your vocabulary. Redirect that towards I'm gonna be the first trifocal wearing 68 year old to take the national IDPA championships.
Log it in as a personal challenge. If you want it bad enough you'll find a way.

[jocko]

quote:Thanks for the encouragement. Compared to some of the shooters I see in IDPA shoots I am a mid range or lower score shooter. I admit I am a wanna be Master, you know one of those guys that shoot in a third or forth of the time everyone else completes a stage with only 1 or 2 points down. Well, at 68 with stiff joints and trifocal glasses it will never happen

I bet practically every shooter to, is also not shooint a kahr. If one goes into those shoots for the knowledge it cang ive and the training you can get form it and then enjoy it for what it is, as it is only a "game" no more no less, another way for shooters to spend money.

My bet if there are any master shooters at where you shoot, THEY ARE NOT SHOOTING KAHRS EITHER..

[garyb]

rkirk,
We all have bad days. When I was young, I had sniper hawk eyes. Now I need special bifocal safety glasses to see the front sight clearly. I get safety glasses with bifocal lens on top and bottom of a non prescription lens, so my head position is right when I shoot. I break every problem down into manageable components. I'd start by making sure you see the front sight well.

Then I'd focus on the trigger. Practice dry firing at home (when the boss lady is gone). FEEL the trigger take up and get used to squeezing it to the point that you know it will release. Do this over and over again, until you really know the feel of your trigger. For a lefty to pull low, right, I'd suggest you put more trigger finger on the trigger. Experiment with how much trigger you have on the trigger and where your shot goes. As a lefty, if you shoot low right, you need to put more trigger finger pad, or even the first joint on the trigger. If you start shooting left, use less trigger finger and move back toward the pad or tip of the finger. Figure out what exact point on your trigger finger needs to contact the trigger to keep it perpendicular to the trigger (so you don't pull left or right). Each time keep your sight on and squeeze to the point of release, then follow through by keeping your front sight on the target and squeezing through gently on the trigger. By taking up the trigger pull, you only need to squeeze a fraction to release it and this will make it almost like a hair trigger. Push with your left hand (left handers) with the left hand relaxed (not really loose, but relaxed); while squeezing with your right hand and pulling back with your right hand. By keeping your trigger hand relaxed, you have more trigger control and are able to squeeze the trigger finger directly back 90 degrees to the trigger. This relaxed perpendicular trigger fingers prevents pulling the gun left or right. Enough said to experiment with for now.

I strongly suggest you go to www.frontsight.com (http://www.frontsight.com) and order their dry fire hand gun manual and follow the instruction.

Please understand this is merely my humble input and I hope you take it as it was intended...to help and in no way to criticize or anything like that. Break down your shooting into manageable components to work on each problem until it is fixed and the repair work becomes a routine habit that you no longer need to think about. Think about each single thing separately from the others. Only one problem at a time. Practice the solution over and over and over again, until it is locked in and requires no more additional thought.

Finally, a crimson trace laser is a fine training tool for dry fire practice. You immediately know when you squeezed the trigger right or wrong, without ever firing a shot. Engrain that feeling and carry it through to the range or real life needs.

I sincerely hope this gives you something to think about and the very best of luck to you. The good days of shooting will pop up again to make it fun and bring back the confidence.
Respectfully

[Kingcreek]

Many moons ago, I had a chance to shoot with and watch some of the masters of the mid and late 80's. I stood behind Rob Leatham, Brian Enos, and a number of others and watched them do thier magic with comp'd race gun 1911s. I watched Jerry Miculik do things with a S&W wheel gun that nobody should be able to do. NONE of those guys started out shooting that way. It was many hours and many rounds and lots of serious training and equipment and modifications that got them there. I learned alot from Rob Leatham but I never could shoot like those guys. Kahr triggers are good at doing what they are supposed to do and maybe the right person with the right determination could learn to race them, but I'll be satisfied to just be proficient with mine in the ways I need to be, when I need to be.
{Pssst, I even had a beer with Col Jeff Cooper once.}
There, I'm done bragging now.

garyb is right on with the trigger talk but I was too lazy to try to put it into words and he did a better job than I could have anyway.

[dusty10]

I would like to be a better shooter than I am too. And like most guys, I have my good days and bad. There are guns that make me better than I really am, but the reality is with limited time and resources to spend on practice, I'm going to spend the most time and resources with my carry piece(s). That would be one of my Kahrs. I will not be discouraged. I will become proficient. That is my mindset. Now all I need to do is practice more.

[94zcar]

Lots of good suggestions....Thought I would add mine.
Try staging the trigger, to just before it breaks. Less chance of pulling the shot that way.

[bigmacque]

[QUOTE=Bawanna45cal;43612]The biggest step in fixing something that is broken is recognizing that it's broken in the first place. Your way ahead of the game and have already come up with a game plan to fix it.

QUOTE]

I knew there was something I liked about you ....

That's the very same advice a baseball coach gave me once, almost 40 years ago, and to this day it remains one of the wisest things I've ever heard.

[Bawanna]

[QUOTE=Bawanna45cal;43612]The biggest step in fixing something that is broken is recognizing that it's broken in the first place. Your way ahead of the game and have already come up with a game plan to fix it.

QUOTE]

I knew there was something I liked about you ....

That's the very same advice a baseball coach gave me once, almost 40 years ago, and to this day it remains one of the wisest things I've ever heard.

Dang, I fell out of my chair on the floor, but I'm ok. Do you mind if I see if JohnH would allow this post in the advertising header banner?
I think thats the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me.
On top of that you apparently are a mind reader as I used to coach little league for many years and I used that precise statement alot both in baseball and other facets of life.
I can't thank you enough for the kind words. Really make a guys day.

[jocko]

Many moons ago, I had a chance to shoot with and watch some of the masters of the mid and late 80's. I stood behind Rob Leatham, Brian Enos, and a number of others and watched them do thier magic with comp'd race gun 1911s. I watched Jerry Miculik do things with a S&W wheel gun that nobody should be able to do. NONE of those guys started out shooting that way. It was many hours and many rounds and lots of serious training and equipment and modifications that got them there. I learned alot from Rob Leatham but I never could shoot like those guys. Kahr triggers are good at doing what they are supposed to do and maybe the right person with the right determination could learn to race them, but I'll be satisfied to just be proficient with mine in the ways I need to be, when I need to be.
{Pssst, I even had a beer with Col Jeff Cooper once.}
There, I'm done bragging now.

garyb is right on with the trigger talk but I was too lazy to try to put it into words and he did a better job than I could have anyway.

I rubbed elbows once at the NSGA show in Louisville with Todd Jarrett, what a thrill. Thinking that this rub would make me a better shooter, I went home after that and sot just as horrible as I did before the elbow rub thing. :target::target::31::31:

These guys truly do amaze me. They are not human.. Especially Jerry Mucliak.

[mr surveyor]

This is a topic I used to wrestle with quite often, but the last few years I have resolved most of my issues by focusing on the practical side.

Here's the three main components of my thinking on firearms in general, which can then be broken down into perfecting (to one's God given abilities) their application:

1. Firearms used for personal self or home defense

2. Firearms used for obtaining food

3. Firearms used for recreation

Having certain vision problems that apparantly can not be corrected without special measures for each situation (and now no satisfactory correction for some visual ranges), I have had to adapt. I won't go into details, but lets just say there is no single "fix", or combination of fixes that I can apply 24/7 for all purposes. Several years ago I worked on quite a few little experiments that greatly improved my vision at the range on static targets, which fit the bill for my above Category 3, then I realized that those measures would NOT work at all with Categories 1 and 2. At the firing line on the range I finally realized I was fooling myself into believing my accuracy skills were really improving, and began to develop a bit of false security concerning my SD and hunting skills. When I finally took off all the extra range shooting vision tools and tried to shoot the same targets with my normal "walk around" vision, I realized that there was a huge difference in the above listed three categories of firearms use. Competition shooting, whether it's in a match or just self improvement competition on staged targets allows you a great deal of time for preparation, of your shooting equipment as well as your ability to pre-program your mind to the course. Self defense and home defense type training only allows you to think in general terms involving situational awareness and contingency planning. Hunting, in my opinion, is closer to the self defense type application, although it could be considered "proactive" rather than "reactive", and does allow the shooter to apply a certain amount of specialized equipment for the intended target of the hunt.

Where am I going with this ramble???? My opinion is that if one is really focusing on any one of the above three categories their training should be done in the identical conditions they would experience when in the actual execution of that categorical use. In other words, if you don't walk around all day with special corrective shooting glasses, why in the world would you want to train for defensive shooting while wearing them. Different types of hunting, particularly where the shooter has time to analyze range, wind, etc., may allow the application of various "aids", but snap shooting winged creatures, squirrels, rabbits, etc. most likely won't. Again, in my opinion, fooling yourself at the range with all the "aids" that most likely would not be available in a real world situation is one of the number one Bad Habits we all succomb to. As long as the aids are made as an integral part of the firearm, such as scope, night sight, laser, flashlight, etc., that do not require the user to take any other action than obtain a sight picture and send a round down the tube, then I would suggest a return to the basics of using only what God gave you when training.

Other Bad Habits that can be overcome are over analyzing every shot, and shooting too much. Over analyzing for me normally results in over adjustment and throwing even larger monkey wrenches into the gears. Excessive shooting while looking for the magic answer will slip in the unwanted, and often overlooked condition of shooter's fatigue. I have a couple of close friends that are lifelong hunters/shooters/reloaders that never shoot more than 2-3 rifle rounds, 6-8 handgun rounds, or half a box of shotgun rounds on any given day, and ALL of those rounds are effective. Same as a close friend that devotes all of his deer season to his bow....a couple of months prior to bow season he will step out his back door every morning and send one single arrow to his target. These guys shot enough rounds with their selected weapons to learn how to operate them, find weapons that fit their hands, and then practice in "real world" conditions just enough to maintain their skill level (and condition of their selected tools) without getting into the vicious cycle of over analyzing the minutia.

So, to make a long ramble a bit longer, I would say that to isolate the "Bad Habits", first decide exactly which of the three categories of firearms applications you are most interested in, and focus only on the basics.

sorry, it's Saturday and I'm looking for something to keep me from my chores


surv :D

[jocko]

well said surveyor.. In my case I shoot my pM9 horrable for hitting beer cans at 25 yards but I shoot it very good at 7 yards for personal defense. I fall into the #1 categoary in that sense, but that being said I love to shoot my PM9 and the thought of just going out and shooting one or two magazines through it, would kill me. It is indeed my defense gun but it is also your/my #3 gun to. I have set my mind to accept that I won't be knocking beer cans at 25 yards with it as I might with my G19 but for me I love to shoot and I am sure that the more I shoot at any one session, the bad habits will float to the top for as u stated, one gets tired, sloppy etc. I realize that part of it but it doesnt bother me that much. I know I can hit something at 7 yards in the first 2 magazines about every time and after that when sloppiness sets in, I accept that for what it is BUT I am still hearing that BANG thing and that for me is relaxing.

Hell i get bored even shooting 2" groups with my G19 at 10 yards. I also accept the fact that I am 67 years old, wear bifocuals, don't hear for sh-t, back hurts 90% of the time, but about one year ago, I went out to my range and there was an old timer whom I have know for over 50 years, he is 94 years of age, can hardly walk, no hearing, damn near bent over when walking,and I am sure his sight is very bad, and what the hell was he doing. He was sighting in his ruger 10/22 at 20 yards with a scope on it. I doubt if it bothered him to much about getting tired etc, or maybe even hitting the target as consistant as he felt he should.
I felt so touched about that event, that I stopped by Wal-mart on the way home and bought his a Federal 550 pak of 22 LR ammo and took it to his home. He cried, but I can remember many many years ago that this ol man was known in the area as one hell of a shooter..

[earle8888]

Wow. Jacko I'm supprized! I moved from a 1911 style, ie Colt Dbl Egl to a Glock 19 for carry it took a full CASE of ammo to get the trigger feal half way right. The Kahr P45 took less than 300 rounds and was shooting more accurate than most of my 45's. Thats with a shorter barrel!!!!
Also, For-what-ever-its-worth, using an empty, i.e. UNLOADED, Kahr with CTlaser to shoot the TV knobs or door knobs will watching the news, will really improve your trigger action and mussle memory.

[earle8888]

Well Mr. Surveyor has some wisdom in his piece. Jacko, I didn't mean anything derrogatory. Any gun you shoot well is a good gun. The more comfortable you are with a reliable gun the better it is, especially for personal defense. Just that I think the DAO Safety trigger on Glocks is far harder to searn to shoot well that the Kahr , not much longer, but smooth consitance trigger.

[rkirk]

It will take a few days to sort through some of these excellent ideas. I see the wisdom of defining the main goal of any firearm especially one carried by a citizen for self defense. I will gather my thoughts and make a longer reply Monday. Until then thank you for sharing your experience and ideas! Of course more is okay, I learn by talking and sharing, thanks guys.

-- Richard

[mr surveyor]

I wouldn't claim that any of my rambling is based on wisdom. It's just based on personal experience and observations that seem to fit my needs to justify my actions. Basically, nothing more than my personal opinions.


surv


oh, and let me clarify one particular detail..... I do love to shoot, and never seem to get enough trigger fun in before I run out of ammunition or time. I do try to compartmentalize my shooting sessions though to fit my described categories. If I'm shooting any SD weapon on a range trip, even if I plan on an extended session, the first two magazines are always dedicated to shooting with the same "aids", or lack thereof, as I would have on any given day or time, and expect nothing more (or less) than "combat accuracy".

[jocko]

Wow. Jacko I'm supprized! I moved from a 1911 style, ie Colt Dbl Egl to a Glock 19 for carry it took a full CASE of ammo to get the trigger feal half way right. The Kahr P45 took less than 300 rounds and was shooting more accurate than most of my 45's. Thats with a shorter barrel!!!!
Also, For-what-ever-its-worth, using an empty, i.e. UNLOADED, Kahr with CTlaser to shoot the TV knobs or door knobs will watching the news, will really improve your trigger action and mussle memory.

u might be right on the Glock trigger to. But I had my G19 tuned and reworked from the day I bought it, so I never suffered that creepy glock trigger that some indeed talk about. One thing about a kahr trigger, it is never creepy, it is loooong by design but I know of no semi that ahs as smoot of a trigger system out of the box. Really notmuch one can ever do to a kahr to help the smoothness of the trigger even. They are jsut that good and certainly rounds down range willsmooth what isleft out as good as anys mitty can do.

I had a Smith M & P that had the worlds worst trigger in it, absolutley the worst, I sent it off to get reworked and that trigger after that was so smooth and perfect.
Credit Dave Bowie of Bowie tactical for that job. It was almost like shooting a single action semi, it was just that smooth, actually kinda scary even. I peddled it as that trigger to me was just to scary..

earle 8888, no harm no foul, u didn't say anything that I disagreed with you about.

[sharpetop]

An thats the truth right there. Unlearning bad things is not easy.

I laugh at new folks at the range that break out their shiney new gun, run the target down to the 25 yard line and start blasting, while I have my target at 3 yards with an old friend for a gun.

I do seem to have very good days and very bad days. On the bad days I think it's almost best to just knock off, BS with the range guys and try again another day.

Anyone else experience this phenomonen?

Hell, there are times I will pack up several guns and head to the range and not fire a shot! I'll start BSing with the rangemaster or some guys I know and not even pull the guns out of the truck. It's still a better day than sticking around the house with the wife's list of things to do.

[Vincent]

These little pistols will punish you if you use the wrong part of your trigger finger to pull the trigger. Which part of the finger pad is important with any pistol but with the long trigger pull in a light pistol the CW9 or P9 it is critical.

What am I talking about? Some of this is VERY basic so bare with me because I have had even long time shooters not understand this.

For a right handed shooter:

If the trigger is being pulled with the part of the pad too close to the knuckle it will pull the shot to the right.

If the trigger is pulled with the pad too close to the tip it will push the shot to the left.

When you can dry fire and watch your sights and they do not move left or right during the pull you have it right. Depending on hand size the trigger should be midway between between the tip and the knuckle. Fine tuning this pull will be a very good thing for your score on the target.

I use a "snap cap" and practice watching the sights without making corrections with your hand. When you can pull the trigger and the sights do not pull or push that is what you want.

Excuse me if this seems too basic but it is the basics that make shooting easier.

[jocko]

vincent, sometime explaining the basics to us whom sometimes we think we know it all is a very good thing...Nice post.

[jeep45238]

Absolutely.

YouTube - Trigger Pull (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKdXmcdB5WE)

It seems to help out a lot of people.

[Allblackedout]

Absolutely.

YouTube - Trigger Pull (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKdXmcdB5WE)

It seems to help out a lot of people.

Nice post

[robmcd]

Here's a link to a shooter error analysis chart that might help.

For right handers (http://www.reloadbench.com/pdf/files/TargetRightHanded.pdf)

For left handers (http://www.reloadbench.com/pdf/files/TargetLeftHanded.pdf)

Sight alignment and trigger squeeze are the most important fundamentals. However, these small pistols present challenges with their small grip and especially their short sight radius.

Here's an interesting video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48) from Todd Jarrett on gripping a pistol.

[recoilguy]

Practice good habits.....correct the bad ones........ it isn't easy but like I told my hockey team when I coached them and they asked why are we doing the same drills over again. I always told them they need to get it perfect because practice does not make perfect......perfect practice is the only thing that makes you perfect!!!!

RCG

[rkirk]

Let me say again how much I value the insight and advice on this forum. Thank you all!

To focus on the reason for the CW9, it is for self defense. After several, right on comments about the mission of the Kahr CW9. I realize it is not the best competition pistol for IDPA. I have one of those, the Browning Hi-Power. When I shoot that pistol I can hold my own, scoring in the mid to mid low range.

My purpose is to be able to handle safely the Kahr CW9, when drawn from an IWB holster and defend myself in a life threatening situation. In order to do that better I need to work on the grip and trigger control using this pistol. I have little doubt this effort will improve my shooting with any pistol.

My plan is to shoot a paper target at 3 yards until I have a good center group and then lengthen the distance to ten yards. I found and printed the LEE right and left hand schematic showing a wedge type circle with short notations describing the errors that cause the shooter to pull or push the rounds into different areas of the circle. More later after I complete this training. I love this because it means I will shoot more. :w00t:

-- Richard

[Bawanna]

I printed it also and plan to keep it in my range bag. I know it but I often times find myself confused (one of the side effects of a non fully functioning brain) especially converting to left hand. This takes the guess work out of it.

I thank the big guy upstairs almost everyday for making me right handed. People throw unwanted sympathy at me for the chair, it's left handed people that deserve sympathy. I can say this cause my wife is left handed, actually my daughter and one son are lefty too. Just occured to me I may have been instrumental in creating a pandemic event. 3 out of 5 lefties.

I'm goin down for this, I just know it.

[jocko]

and ol jocko is left handed also, so back off bawanna or I willshoot your fooking tires out..

[Bawanna]

I knew that. It was a test of the National Emergency Left Handed broadcasting system. Wanted to see if it would get a rise out of you.
Obviously it was completely successful.

*Note to self* Add steel plating to protect tires.
Stay clear of Indiana and any old dude on a Harley.

[jocko]

ok, carry on.. u little FOKKER, U.

[Bawanna]

Aye, Aye Sir! Thank you sir.

[oldtex]

Let me say again how much I value the insight and advice on this forum. Thank you all!

To focus on the reason for the CW9, it is for self defense. After several, right on comments about the mission of the Kahr CW9. I realize it is not the best competition pistol for IDPA. I have one of those, the Browning Hi-Power. When I shoot that pistol I can hold my own, scoring in the mid to mid low range.

My purpose is to be able to handle safely the Kahr CW9, when drawn from an IWB holster and defend myself in a life threatening situation. In order to do that better I need to work on the grip and trigger control using this pistol. I have little doubt this effort will improve my shooting with any pistol.

My plan is to shoot a paper target at 3 yards until I have a good center group and then lengthen the distance to ten yards. I found and printed the LEE right and left hand schematic showing a wedge type circle with short notations describing the errors that cause the shooter to pull or push the rounds into different areas of the circle. More later after I complete this training. I love this because it means I will shoot more. :w00t:

-- Richard

Richard, I read through this thread and didn't notice that anyone recommended getting some personal instruction from a competent professional instructor.

Folks here are trying to help, but an instructor actually watching you operate and fire the gun can be much more helpful. He will be able to more accurately and quickly diagnose what you're doing wrong and prescribe changes in technique to help you improve.