PM40 Recoil Spring Troubles

[CornCobAvery]

Hi, I'm new here today. I got back from shooting about and hour ago. Put through 200 rounds. So far I have about 500 rounds through the gun. However, I've replaced the recoil spring twice because of them getting kinks in them. The tech at the gun club looked at my gun after shooting today and said it was unsafe to use with the recoil spring in it now because it's bent so badly. This doesn't seem like it should be normal? Any suggestions, ideas?

[Bawanna]

Bent how? Can you post a picture. I'm not getting this. Anxious to help but can't see a spring riding on a guide bending.

[jocko]

if ur talking about the outter spring, that is normal. MY PM9 does it.

Why not try this. Go to GNSPRINGS.COM that is wolffs sight. and hit ont he kahrs\\order a set of 20.5# recoil springs for your PM40. Factory is 18# . The little heavier springs will do wonders. It will come in a set witht he inner spring, just replace the outter spring and leave the inner one along.

It cannot get bent any further than what the recoil assembly will allow it, so IMO there is nothing wrong and u have 500 round sthorugh it and it is OK. I don't think that club tech knows what he is talking about IMO..

to me a kink is about like a 90 Degree bend, just not sure this can happen when on the recoil rod . A photo would sure look nice..

[CornCobAvery]

I'm not savy enough to know how to post a picture. :-( My daughters could but they're off to college. :-)

If you can imagine a slinky that gets bent/has a kink in it. A few of the coils are enlarged and stretched. That's the best way I can think of to explain it.

How many rounds should be able to go through the gun before replacing it? It just seems like it should last longer than 100-200 rounds?

I went to GNSPRINGS and will order the heavier spring. Thank you for directing me to that site. It makes sense that a heavier spring would hold up better under the recoil in that gun.

[jocko]

every bit of 1500+ rounds before even thinking of replacing. I just think your kink is a normal curvature of that spring and that is OK. My PM 9 springs look like that. there is no way that spring can stay perfectly straight like when it was new and never in the recoil assembly. Once inside the gun the spring is under some pressure andonly half of that spring is now ridingon the bigger back portion of that two peace recoil tube asembly. that curvature u are seeing is because of partof that spring being unsupported.

Just shoot the damn thing like u stole it and u are OK but I would still suggest u get a set of the 20.5# wolffs recoil springs (outter). They will do the same curvature thing but they will go a lot longer..

while your at wolffs, u might as wellorder a set of 3 of their 5% more strength magazine springs. They are super and you willnotice no difference in loading the rounds but that extra 5% is a nice margin of strenght to have in order to help that magazine follower on the last round to pick up the slide lock lever. U have to understand that on that last round that follower with the magazine spring behind it is at its weakest posistion and that little estra strength on that last round will help that follower get up there fast enough to engage that slide stop lever. It is all about timiing and if the slide stop lever can't get up there fast enogh on the last round that slide will run right past that slide stop lever. No doubt the factroy kahr mag springs are OK ( they ar emadey by wolffs) but when that magazine spring gets alittle tired, then I think thatis whem maybe that extra 5% might come in handy.

Like insect repellant, If u spray it on and don't get bit, u don't know if it worked or not or if there was no mosqitos, and u really don't care either. Same thing with the extra strength magazine spring...

Heh, don't feel pregnant, I couldn't post a photo, even if it meant world peace.

[CornCobAvery]

Admitting I don't know what I'm talking about ... let me add this too. When the slide is racked the slide has play in it. In otherwords, I can move the slide back and forth with my hand about 1/4". Honestly I can't remember if it normally does that or not. The tech guy said this is happening because the spring is so messed up??

Also, in researching this issue, it seems like there is a newer recoil guide assembly. The newer one is on the left (I copied this picture from another site). The guide head seems to be bigger and the spring longer. Mine is the older version. Will the newer version work in my gun? Are Wolff's springs the new longer ones?

Thanks for bearing with me in this.

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z304/Porky-357/DSC04789-1.jpg

[Bawanna]

Guys correct me if I'm wrong but the one on the left is the new 1/2" guide and the one on the right is the old 3/8". The 1/2" will work fine and the 3/8" is no longer around as they were replaced.

That's what it looks like to me. The springs and the guide should be the same length.

There is a new version of the PM9 with a longer guide and spring than the earlier model and they will not interchange, not sure if they did the same thing to the 40 or not.

[jocko]

ok, here is what I can see, u don't have a new kahr as I though u did, indeed u need to order from kahr a complete recoil assembly for your PM40 as u have the 3/8" flat part and all now are 1/2" and yes it will interchange. the springs have the same amount of coils as each other,just that the right side photo, has taken a prescribed set. I counted 12 coils each. a new spring in the gun will compress somewhat, by design also, so that is no big deal..

If u are talking about the slide sitting on top of the gun in a rest position or fully closed etc, and a 1/4" play, then IMO u are over exagerating it . Just IMO no way that can be happening. As far as racking the slide backwards and having some side play, that might possable be but a 1/4 " is a lot..

did u buy this gun used??/ what is the serial number of it (all but the last 2 numbers willdo) this will tell us alot more.

that older recoil assembly has not been around for about 4 years to my knowledge. I had one like that in my PM9 and it never give one issue and when I ordered new replacement I got the bigger head. The PM9 and PM40 recoil assemblys are the same..

[CornCobAvery]

This is very helpful. I'm glad I joined today. I didn't know I'd have all these questions after going to the range today.

Yes, I bought mine new in 1/2005. I haven't shot it much, obviously. But, I'm wanting to get more involved in shooting and need to address this spring issue which I've had since I first shot it in 2005.

I'm glad I posted the picture. I'll order the newer version from Kahr. I needed to make sure it would work in my older gun.

I'm assuming this newer version is an improvement over the older version? In otherwords, why the newer version?

[jocko]

have no idea why they went to the 1/2" size back head, Now the 20.5# recoil springs tha tyou ordered form wolffs will slide right over that new assembly to, so u are on track to be OK.

More than likely you could not get from kahr the smaller size recoil assembly anyhow. I never had an ounce of issue when I had the 3/8" size in my older pM9, so if if they made a change, I am sure they won't tell us why and u know, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Sitting in the gun for 5 years the spring ahs taken a definite set, but I would still bet it is OK but error on the side of caution order a complete new set that willge tyou the new recoil guide rod and then when you get the 20.5# outter spring from wolffs just slip it on and shoot it like you stole it.

Just be aware and I amsur eyou know that, this 40 cal in this smallass lightweight gun has some recoil, so get a mans grip on this sucker and again just shoot it like u stole it.. I wold bet in 5 years you hav ealso not clenaed that gun properly either. go to the kahr teck section and hit on propper preppingof your new kahr and also on the thread kahr lube chart. both will make ur PM40 a better gun...

[CornCobAvery]

Jacko: "If u are talking about the slide sitting on top of the gun in a rest position or fully closed etc, and a 1/4" play, then IMO u are over exagerating it ."

Ok, I just racked the slide (no bullet in the chamber though). I can pull the slide back so that it comes in past the bottom of the polymer portion of the gun.

After I pull the tigger (like shooting a bullet) the slide doesn't move at all when I try to slide it back.

Hope I'm making sense.

[CornCobAvery]

Since we've moved to AZ 4 years agao I've shot it three times. I only shot it 2 or three times in NH.

I've cleaned it after each use and before using it again. My oldest son is a cop in NH. When he was out here we/he cleaned the gun and went shooting. The spring didn't mess up after that round of shooting -- a year and a half ago. However, this summer after I went shooting the spring got the kink (this being the third spring in the gun). And now after today's shooting it really is out of shape.

I'm hoping the new assembly will be the answer.

[jocko]

if the slide is in full batter, meaning cloased and trigger not pulled, u don't have the 1/4" of play,,,, do you??

[CornCobAvery]

When I rack the slide (the gun is empty) like I'm chambering a bullet, after I chamber the imaginary bullet, I grab the slide and can move it (the slide slides) back and forth 3/8 of an inch. I just measured it.

[jocko]

When I rack the slide (the gun is empty) like I'm chambering a bullet, after I chamber the imaginary bullet, I grab the slide and can move it (the slide slides) back and forth 3/8 of an inch. I just measured it.

excessive. I have some play in y PM9 but any semi has to have some side play. I certainly would not think 3/8" play. Question is ???How does it shoot. Is it good and accurate at 10 yards and under and if so , maybe we are making a mountain out of a molehill.

wait until you ge the new recoil assembly and see how or if that corrects any of that play...

[CornCobAvery]

wait until you ge the new recoil assembly and see how or if that corrects any of that play...[/QUOTE]

Will do. I'm going to order it tomorrow. Hopefully it'll get here quickly. I'll let you know what happens.

Thank you so much for taking the time with me on this. :)

Also, thanks for all the responses.

[earle8888]

Don't think PM9 & PM40 use the same sppring/rod set?????
I replaced my PM40 with a Wollfe replacement, Only one choice), I used the middle, I think BLUE, not the strongest RED as recomended, after about 3000 rounds. I still have the old guide rod and it still works great!! Unscrewing the nut on the guide rod is real pain in the U NO WHAT, very easy to bend/damage something , that said it is a LOT cheaper than replacing the guide & spring at Kahr. Have new mag springs , but haven't used new one yet. After first 1000 or so rounds it has functioned flawlessly!!
I have been converted, and am a TRUE believer in the CTL, both for practicwe with and without ammo, and the undesirable occurance when its necessary for personal protection. Odds very much favor GOOD guy over bad guy.

[Bawanna]

Personally I'd just replace the larger outer recoil spring on the PM's. I'd toss the inner spring. If that front nut holding things together isn't working loose I'd leave it as it.
If it is working loose I'd be ok replacing the inner spring, then lock tite it and I've even considered welding the darn thing. Although mine fortunately has never come lose like other here.

[jocko]

Don't think PM9 & PM40 use the same sppring/rod set?????


Yup they sure do. If you look at the wolff's site they are both the same..Kahr factory standard on the PM40 and PM9 is 18#. extra power from wolffs is 20.5#
I shoot the 20.5# in my pM9 and love it and I am sure in the PM40 it wold be even ore beneficial.
Personally what Bawanna stated is the way to go. Just leave the original inner spring along and repolce the outter, that is the one that carry's most of the work load...

[earle8888]

Yep Jocko, Your right!!! I did'nt remmember having a choice when I ordered my springs. O well !!
Bawana yep.
Mine has not come loose.

[CornCobAvery]

An update. I called Kahr and talked to a tech. After explaining the situation, he suggested I send it in for them to go over. They got it on Tuesday. Does anyone have a general idea on the turn around time and costs?

[CornCobAvery]

Thank you for the links.

Kahr repaired it for free. I did pay to ship it there, but they're paying return shipping.

They replaced the Recoil Spring assembly with the new version. They also did an update of some sort on the magazine. It will arrive tomorrow. Looking forward to getting it back.