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joe_sun
12-08-2010, 08:24 AM
Got my new PM9, did the mandatory forum cleaning and followed the lube chart exactly.

First 50 rounds were flawless, from 51-100 it failed to go fully into battery once but taping the slide forward solved the problem. It wasn't until I broke the 100 mark that the serious problem hit. The gun started to give me this weird "nosedive" jam. From 100-200 rounds at least once and most often 2-3 times per magazine the bullet would nosedive back into the gun instead of feeding up the ramp. It was REALLY making me mad.

I finished off my 200 rounds and brought the gun home.

Anyone seen this before?
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn109/calgunpics/PM9/IMAG0209.jpg

7 yards 50rd group. I wish I had taken a picture after I moved the target to 15 yards. The group opened up a little but it all stayed in the 9 ring.

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn109/calgunpics/IMAG0207.jpg

I was expecting a jam or two but not 2-3 PER magazine! Recoil was shockingly mild, the machine work is flawless on the metal thou there are some sharp edges on the gun, accuracy was awesome as long as I didn't jerk that last part of the super long trigger pull.

So what do you think about my nosedive jams? Just clean it, take it out again and see what happens?

I'm supposed to qualify with this pistol tomorrow, Thursday Dec 8th, to put it on my CCW. I hope it runs for me then!

Edit

Since this thread is so long now I'll post all my updates into this first post.

Also I have no idea how all this "Crazy Range Officer" Stuff came up, I had very nice Range Officers and nobody yelled or told me I had to do this or that.

update 1: I fired 50rds of 115gr FMJ rds flawlessly and passed my CCW qualification. I have my CCW in hand

update 2: I went to the range again to test function again before I carried the gun and had 2 nosedive jams both with the 7 rd magazine and 1 premature slidelock with the 6rd when using Speer Gold Dot 147gr HP. I determined the 7rd mag was crap, ordered a second 6rd magazine and this is the first jam I had with hollow point ammo and when using the 6rd magazine. We decided to try a smaller bullet than the GD 147gr and I ordered 100rds of Winchester Ranger 124gr +p JHP and 50rds of Winchester Ranger 147gr JHP.

update 3:Returning to the range once again it shot 115gr FMJ bullets flawless, I had zero failure to feeds using the first 50rds of Winchester 124gr +p but the 147gr turned the gun into a jam o mattic with 12% failures. I switched back to 124gr and received another premature slide lock.

update 4: I contacted Kahr, they offered me free shipping back to them to inspect it or a new free slide lock to see if that will fix the problem. I picked the slide lock. When it gets here I'll use my digital calipers to measure both then test it.

update 5: I installed the new slide stop and was unable to get any bullets to hang up or press up on the slide stop no matter how far forward or to the left they were. If they came in contact with the stop they just smoothly slid over to the right instead of hanging or pressing up. This is a GREAT sign. I need to get more HP ammo to test with.

kramm
12-08-2010, 08:56 AM
Welcome to the forum. Were you useing the same ammo all the time? You may need to clean the mags.

joe_sun
12-08-2010, 08:58 AM
Alternating between Remington UMC and Blazer Aluminum Brass FMJ. It was jamming a LOT more with the Blazer.

jeep45238
12-08-2010, 09:03 AM
Alternating between Remington UMC and Blazer Aluminum Brass FMJ. It was jamming a LOT more with the Blazer.


Just me, but I'd take that as a sign that the pistol doesn't like the Blazer aluminum ammo.:)

bigmacque
12-08-2010, 09:37 AM
There's also the possibility that the aluminum was leaving scraps and bits in the battery that were also affecting the UMC.

I'd clean the heck out of it, then fire about 100 rounds of anything except that Blazer and see how it goes.

garyb
12-08-2010, 10:18 AM
If you have not already, check out the PREP thread by Jocko. I prepped as he advised and have never had one single failure in my PM40. Also check to be sure the springs are installed correctly in your mags, clean them and give them a light coat of paste floor wax (bowling alley wax) and buff them down good. Finally, I always tap the mags to seat the brass back against the back of the mag before installing each mag. Could be the ammo, but very unlikely cause. To me it sounds like the need to Prep the feed ramp and mags.

Good shooting!

joe_sun
12-08-2010, 10:25 AM
I'm going to clean it tonight after work and I'll only bring brass cases ammo to the qualification. That would suck if it didn't like Blazer, I've been shooting it almost exclusively for 7 years in my Sigs, Glock and HK P7M8 and never had a single jam in literally thousands of rounds fired.

I've never seen a firearm malfunction like the Kahr did last night. It's disconcerting in something I'm trusting my family's lives in but I'm hoping it's just part of the break in process.

Bawanna
12-08-2010, 10:51 AM
I doubt its the Blazer ammo either, its ran like eggs thru a hen in everything I've ever shot it in. It's a reloaders nightmare to see aluminum cases on the floor but I shoot it quite often when I want factory stuff for break in or as a test medium to compare reloads etc. Do what Garyb said. Check those springs, make sure the rounds are seated properly. Do the Jocko prep.
Take note if one magazine is acting up more than another. She'll run and theres lot of guys here to help figure it out.

garyb
12-08-2010, 11:23 AM
The "Jocko Prep".....kind of has a ring to it.... sounds like some kind of new line dance move or something...haha....almost sounds a little kinky in a sporting way...haha. All kidding aside, Jocko's prep got my PM40 off to the right start. I did the prep first thing, prior to firing a round through it. It does not take long to do and saved me the frustrations that new Kahr owners often deal with unnecessarily. Kahr should Jocko prep them. Now that I completed the Jocko prep, I am very confident it will go BANG!

I hope you take my joking favorably Jocko. Your prep thread should be part of the Kahr instruction manual. It is essential for new Kahr owners to be aware of this prep and to complete it promptly. Alot of frustration could be avoided.

Bawanna
12-08-2010, 11:29 AM
I think Jocko patented the process so they can't put it in the manual. I think he gets a kick back for every hit on that thread.

I think it's helped an awful lot of Kahrs get off to a good start too, I know it did mine for sure.

He'll of course not take credit, (just the loot) and claim it was a joint effort by several here (sadly myself not included) but he was the brains of the operation or the mastermind if you will.

Its sad that he lost it, being a master and all but I think he found it again so pretty much all is normal.

joe_sun
12-08-2010, 11:29 AM
I did the prep except the polish and the sandpaper including checking the springs. Now that you mention it, I was really tired last night but I'm thinking the 7 rd mag might have had most of the malfunctions.

bigmacque
12-08-2010, 11:35 AM
The jocko prep .....

Should we just abbreviate that to tinactin?

Bawanna
12-08-2010, 11:36 AM
We've heard of this before. Now we're narrowing down the problems. The polishing may not be needed as it seems the feed ramps and stuff on the newer guns come pretty polished already.
Some of those larger capacity mags have been giving grief, that could be the issue. Clean it, lube it, get back out there (tell the boss we said it was ok to take a day off) and bring those Blazers along too. Eliminate that variable too.
Go on now, we'll wait for the follow up report.


tick, tick, tick, tick, tick,


Wonder if he's left yet?

joe_sun
12-08-2010, 11:44 AM
Lol I already took tomorrow off to do the qualification and I'm not sure I'd have time to go today after work. I'll report back tomorrow.

I hope It's just a magazine issue.

Tilos
12-08-2010, 03:27 PM
Look at the exploded views at Kahr's website for mag spring orientation.
It's not fun when they are wrong...don't ask, ok.
Tilos

Replay13
12-08-2010, 07:22 PM
I did the prep except the polish and the sandpaper including checking the springs. Now that you mention it, I was really tired last night but I'm thinking the 7 rd mag might have had most of the malfunctions.

You might find it interisting that my PM9 was jamming nose down with the 7 round mag, but only with the aluminum non-reloadable case Blazers. My 6 round mag was 100% with everything and my 7 round mag is 100% with all brass case ammo. Anyways after that I took the both magazines apart and found out the 7 round mag had the follower spring rotated 180 degrees, so that would maybe put more up pressure on the back of the follower, I also cleaned and lubed them. I havn't tried anymore of the aluminum Blazers but everything else has been 100%... I'm prolly over 400 rounds now. It was usually the second or third round down the 7 round mag that jammed like that.

Keep us posted on how your doing with it, let us know if its only the one mag causing the problem. Most mag problems can be fixed pretty easy.
James (Replay13)

OldLincoln
12-08-2010, 09:23 PM
Jocko Prep? Yeah I did the Jocko Prep and didn't like it one minute. After drinken 3 gallons of it and spending the night on the can, I'm not lookin forward to doing it again any time soon. But it was good to find out my pluming is good to go (pun intended).

jameswilson29
12-09-2010, 05:18 AM
Mine did the same thing a few times during the break-in period, although I cleaned it after each box of 50 instead of shooting 200 rounds at once. Has been flawless since the break-in with no more nosedives.

Slynchee
12-09-2010, 09:52 AM
Are you grabbing the slide or using the slide stop lever. I know in my Dept., the range officer kept yelling at me to grab the slide and stop using the slide stop lever. I had to explain to him that on the Kahr's you have to use the slide stop lever. I am sure your dept. is like mine. MUSCLE MEMORY!!! You might have to change your training when using the Kahr. Good luck Brother and stay safe.

jeep45238
12-09-2010, 10:09 AM
Are you grabbing the slide or using the slide stop lever. I know in my Dept., the range officer kept yelling at me to grab the slide and stop using the slide stop lever. I had to explain to him that on the Kahr's you have to use the slide stop lever. I am sure your dept. is like mine. MUSCLE MEMORY!!! You might have to change your training when using the Kahr. Good luck Brother and stay safe.


YouTube - Reloading Kahr Pistols (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjLbFOw8sow)


I refuse to slingshot the slide for a reload. It's slower, and the 'gross motor skills' is a BS argument. If your body is too amped up to hit the slide stop, then how in the dickens do you think you can hit the smaller magazine release to even start the reload process?

Bawanna
12-09-2010, 10:15 AM
Are you grabbing the slide or using the slide stop lever. I know in my Dept., the range officer kept yelling at me to grab the slide and stop using the slide stop lever. I had to explain to him that on the Kahr's you have to use the slide stop lever. I am sure your dept. is like mine. MUSCLE MEMORY!!! You might have to change your training when using the Kahr. Good luck Brother and stay safe.

Ours is the same way, muscle memory, don't use the slide stop lever. You will be able to rack normally after the gun breaks in. I think it's not only the gun being tight at first but people not properly letting the slide go so it has all it's built in momentum, can't let it down easy, gotta rack it like ya mean it.
Mine worked fine both ways out of the box, I might have just been lucky.
Range officers are built to yell and shout the latest trend whatever that might be, I think it's something in the kool aid they make them drink at training.
Don't let that have a negative impact on the overall game of life.

jocko
12-09-2010, 10:27 AM
Personally I see nothing wrong with using the slide lock lever to release the slide. I would bet I could release the slide on a kahr a 100 times using the slide lock lever and it would load every time, not sure I or maybe even others can rack the slide manually and get a perfect load. If you have an injured hand or something, then the slidelock lever is very valuable. Personally if I was apolice officer and in training they told me to crap at the same time I used my maual slidle drill,l I probalby would do so being it could cost me my job if I didn't do EXACTLY what thye siad. But from a civilian standpoint, I tend to do exactly what I want to do in racking my handguns. I am not convinced there is a 100% right way. One thing about the slide lock release being used, is that it will release the slide everyt ime with the same velocity needed to feed that round, Racking by hand can change everytime you do it and u certainly can't rack it and make it returnt o battery any faster than using the slide lock lever. Needless to say I disagree..

Bawanna
12-09-2010, 10:38 AM
Well thats certainly a relief to me. We've agreed about 3 or 4 times in a row. I'm sure glad you got this one wrong so we got something to argue about.

jocko
12-09-2010, 11:54 AM
no argument from me, just an opinion. How about some real positive reason why to always use the hand racking. I might even learn something here. and what are the disadvantages of using the slide lock lever..Again I might just learn something. Kahrs are harder to rack than most semi,s why that is I dohn't know but my G19 racks with ease, no mattef how I do it, not so with my PM9 or K9 even. If I mess up (unknowingly) it will give issues hand racking..

Bawanna
12-09-2010, 12:28 PM
Well what kind of fun is this if you don't want to argue? I was trying to stir this place up a little bit.

Police firearm instructors are big on fine and gross motor skill and perhaps rightfully so. You don't want to try threading a needle when bullets are flying all around you.
They consider using the slide lock a fine motor skill, in the heat of the adrenaline filled moment you can grab the top of that slide and rip it back and get that gun back into bang mode.
Its a similar action to clearing malfunctions etc.
Many manufacturers will tell you that it is a slide lock lever, not a slide release lever, they want the slide pulled back just a tiny bit more to insure the pickup (what do ya call it) is behind the cartridge.
Like in the gap and the notch thread, when you pulled the slide all the way back the pickup is far enough back to push the cartridge, with the slide release alone it rides over the case and chambers nothing. If we always racked the slide by hand we wouldn't have to bevel the pickup dealy heimer.
I have nothing against the slide lock lever method and thats what I do most of the time because Kahr says to and because I'm usually not emergency reloading with the slide down and trying to get back into a gun fight.
I'm trying to explain the range officers thinking not my own.
If I was explaining my own thinking this would have probably only been a 3 or 4 word post. Mostly I think about angels.

joe_sun
12-09-2010, 12:37 PM
Okay back on subject really quick!

I'm getting ready to go qualify, I have to leave here in 1 hour. I took apart the magazines and the 6 rounder is fine per the Kahr picture BUT the 7 rounder is wonky.

If I put it together like the picture here shows
http://www.kahr.com/GetDynamicImage.aspx?path=SVparts-M-Mag.jpg&w=652&h=556

Then the follower will be pointed DOWN, not up like the 6 rounder is. Is that correct? Is it supposed be pointed downward? That's unlike any other magazine I've ever seen.

jocko
12-09-2010, 12:38 PM
slide lock lever and slide lock release is apples and oragnes, almost like a clip and a magazine. People who know gun understand what they are referring to.

If the slideis closed u have no alternative but to hand rack it, Only reason a good working guns slide is closed is because it is still loaded or you had a misfire, One would require hand racking,no other way to get around that. They other as u well kniw required just pulling the trigger. If the slide is lokced open and anew fresh magazine is inserted, why take two hands to possably rack correctly when one can release the slide lock lever/slide lock.

I am referring to what I think and feel is right for me, not for other people either. They can do what they please, but I still willsay that one hand racking a kahr 100 times is more apt to have a feed issue than one using the slide lock/lever to ooad that round, especially in a kahr which I dohope will agree is more difficult to rack than any glock could ever be..If the gun is right, you shouldnot have had to bevel anything to rack with the slide locked open, u know better than

very few of kahrs's 45 had the issues that u and wyn had, We don't read of that anymore either, so you got a gun not completely let out the door right and modified it to make it right, but that is not indicative of the kahr 45's. That slide should and does go back as far as any other kahr caliber does .

Bawanna
12-09-2010, 01:01 PM
Okay back on subject really quick!

I'm getting ready to go qualify, I have to leave here in 1 hour. I took apart the magazines and the 6 rounder is fine per the Kahr picture BUT the 7 rounder is wonky.

If I put it together like the picture here shows
http://www.kahr.com/GetDynamicImage.aspx?path=SVparts-M-Mag.jpg&w=652&h=556

Then the follower will be pointed DOWN, not up like the 6 rounder is. Is that correct? Is it supposed be pointed downward? That's unlike any other magazine I've ever seen.

If it was me I'd focus on the follower end of that spring. It should lay properly in the mag tube and orient the follower in a level neutral position, not up or down. That attached picture don't look right to me.
Do you have to use both mags for the qual? Can you shoot a mag or so prior to qual to make sure you got it right?
I dont got a MK9 mag here to rip apart and look, maybe one of the guys does. I'll go see if I can find one.

Bawanna
12-09-2010, 01:05 PM
slide lock lever and slide lock release is apples and oragnes, almost like a clip and a magazine. People who know gun understand what they are referring to.

If the slideis closed u have no alternative but to hand rack it, Only reason a good working guns slide is closed is because it is still loaded or you had a misfire, One would require hand racking,no other way to get around that. They other as u well kniw required just pulling the trigger. If the slide is lokced open and anew fresh magazine is inserted, why take two hands to possably rack correctly when one can release the slide lock lever/slide lock.

I am referring to what I think and feel is right for me, not for other people either. They can do what they please, but I still willsay that one hand racking a kahr 100 times is more apt to have a feed issue than one using the slide lock/lever to ooad that round, especially in a kahr which I dohope will agree is more difficult to rack than any glock could ever be..If the gun is right, you shouldnot have had to bevel anything to rack with the slide locked open, u know better than

very few of kahrs's 45 had the issues that u and wyn had, We don't read of that anymore either, so you got a gun not completely let out the door right and modified it to make it right, but that is not indicative of the kahr 45's. That slide should and does go back as far as any other kahr caliber does .

My 45 was ok, it was close for some reason with practice ammo but worked fine with Gold Dot. I beveled it a bit just to make sure. Wyns was off alot and your right we don't hear of that anymore so apparently they cured that at the source.

joe_sun
12-09-2010, 01:15 PM
If it was me I'd focus on the follower end of that spring. It should lay properly in the mag tube and orient the follower in a level neutral position, not up or down. That attached picture don't look right to me.
Do you have to use both mags for the qual? Can you shoot a mag or so prior to qual to make sure you got it right?
I dont got a MK9 mag here to rip apart and look, maybe one of the guys does. I'll go see if I can find one.

Thanks

Yes, I need both magazines, in fact it's impossible for me to score a perfect because one of the stages is 6 shots, reload 8 shots so I'm going to have to drop a point.

When I did my initial qualification during my CCW class they let us shoot 10 practice rounds. I don't know if they do that for someone who is adding a weapon to the permit, let's hope so!

Food for fodder:

I contacted Kahr and they said there are two reasons for the nosedive jam. The first is not using the slide stop to release the slide. Jay said, I am quoting

"Chambering via the sling shot method can cause jams in
subsequent rounds because it changes the angle that the first round feeds
from the magazine (which alters the way the others feed from the magazine)"

He said the second reason was

"Your issue could also be caused by too firm of a grip on the extended
magazine. If you are gripping too firmly on the extension in the magazine
you can actually alter the angle the magazine feeds into the firearm. I
would suggest loosening your grip on the bottom of the magazine as the best
course of action."

I WAS sling shotting the slide as that is what I've been trained to do. I'll make an effort not to.

Slynchee
12-09-2010, 01:21 PM
Just like I said!!! Good luck qualifying brother. I went through the same thing, the Range Officers need to F@#@ing relax.

jocko
12-09-2010, 01:26 PM
I sure don't buy that second reason, if that is true, then Kahr needs to make some change, as that is just not the norm.

As far as qualifying for a permit or something like that, I would then do exactly what it takes to quality. If they inisist that you shoot with ur pants unzipped, then do it. Or the left she on the right foot, then do it. what ever it takes to get you out the damn door, then later on you train the way you are comforatble with. Some times range officers are like reserve deputies, if you get my point, All of a sudden they are in total authority, so do what ti takes to get the hell outta there.

Kahr recdommends not slingshotting the slide, so like the range officer crap, do what is told to you and then modify your methods after . Nothing wrong with hand racking. actualy one has to hand rack to practice the TAP, RACK AND BAG thing. Some can do it in their sleep, some struggle, Which one is u and I???????

Slynchee
12-09-2010, 01:33 PM
Jocko I think you are misunderstanding. Range Officer is a police officer and he is qualifying under department rules/regs. Or maybe I am not understanding. I got the impression he is a cop and he is department qualifying, not ccw qualifying. My department is the same way. YELL YELL YELL, RUN RUN RUN, put dummy rounds in gun to jam on purpose, YELL YELL unjam gun STOP FIRING!!! Times up..

Bawanna
12-09-2010, 01:36 PM
Thanks

Yes, I need both magazines, in fact it's impossible for me to score a perfect because one of the stages is 6 shots, reload 8 shots so I'm going to have to drop a point.

When I did my initial qualification during my CCW class they let us shoot 10 practice rounds. I don't know if they do that for someone who is adding a weapon to the permit, let's hope so!

Food for fodder:

I contacted Kahr and they said there are two reasons for the nosedive jam. The first is not using the slide stop to release the slide. Jay said, I am quoting

"Chambering via the sling shot method can cause jams in
subsequent rounds because it changes the angle that the first round feeds
from the magazine (which alters the way the others feed from the magazine)"

He said the second reason was

"Your issue could also be caused by too firm of a grip on the extended
magazine. If you are gripping too firmly on the extension in the magazine
you can actually alter the angle the magazine feeds into the firearm. I
would suggest loosening your grip on the bottom of the magazine as the best
course of action."

I WAS sling shotting the slide as that is what I've been trained to do. I'll make an effort not to.

In your initial post you mentioned you were getting like 3 jams per magazine so I didn't even take into account the sling shot or slide lock release as an issue.
If this is a CCW Qual, just like Jocko said, just do what you gotta do to get out of there. It should be very easy so that anyone can pass and 8 rounds without a mag change as an overall rule is not fair, course lots of this stuff isn't fair. Sadly I agree with him once more in that the second reason for a jam being the pressure on the extended mag isn't right. We see lots of issues with those extended mags so if it is the case it needs to be redesigned or cured in some fashion.
This is one reason I absolutely hate mandatory classes and quals for civilian CCW permits. Here you pay your money, get your background check and your good to go, 1 gun or 213 guns, no matter.

joe_sun
12-09-2010, 01:42 PM
jocko- I agree with you.. smells like BS to me, if it's not they have a flaw in their product.


Slynchee- Nope not a cop, we just have VERY strict rules for CCW in my county (at least I can carry right?) I'm only allowed to have 3 guns on the permit, I have to qualify with each one in a series of timed rounds. For example, from 5 feet I have to be able to draw and double tap in less than 3 seconds hitting at least the 8 ring on a standard B27 target. I have to do that 3 times, that's one stage. Another stage is 6 rounds one handed strong hand only reload, 6 rounds weak hand only.. can't remember the time limit on that one. Anyway you get the picture.

I have to qualify every year and every second year I have to take a 4 hour class and qualify again. At least it's not as bad as the 16 hour initial class.

This will get you guys..

Cost breakdown
Application Fee:20.00
Class :100.00
Background Check: 122.00
Permit 80.00

I'm not worried about it, with my Glock 23 and Sig Sauer P225 I qualified with a perfect score. I've had a LOT of firearms training.

Bawanna
12-09-2010, 01:53 PM
What part of the world you live in joe_sun? I want to add it to the places I don't want to live.
Qualify every year and a class every other year, to me that's insane. Of course I break out in hives at the very mention of the word mandatory.

I suppose your charged for each qual and the class of course?

Wonder if they charge the range officer for the privelege of bossing people around, yelling, and making people nervous.

Don't mean to ridicule your town or state or whoever dreams this stuff up but I'd be loading the moving van and heading someplace else.

joe_sun
12-09-2010, 01:57 PM
I live in California of course!! Where else?

I'd have moved if my entire family and my wife's entire family didn't live here. We're talking about it, maybe one day.

Of course I'm charged, that wouldn't make sense not to charge me to qualify for today ;)

I do have to put it out there that I don't actually have my CCW in hand right now, I've been approved but was told to qualify with this gun before I turn in the paperwork. It seems it's a huge PITA to issue a CCW then reissue it.

jocko
12-09-2010, 01:58 PM
joe sun: U best get the hell out of dodge. That is pure B.S. sure sounds like a revenue maker more than anything else. 16 hour initial course, wow. I cold say more but I won't I think Bawanna covered it in a nicer verbal way than I would have.

did I mention though that this is pure B. S.??

sometimes as dumb as when I got into a motorcycle wreck 9 years ago and had only a broken leg and the a-hole doctor as me if I was wearing a helmet. Oh so glad I was not carrying at that moment or I might not be writing this today..Wehave police officers in my small home town who have zero business in being a police officer, they (some) love that badge and gun thing and the authority to be a-holes when they want. I totally support law inforcement people, jus the dumb fokers that I don't..

Bawanna
12-09-2010, 02:13 PM
I live in California of course!! Where else?

I'd have moved if my entire family and my wife's entire family didn't live here. We're talking about it, maybe one day.

Of course I'm charged, that wouldn't make sense not to charge me to qualify for today ;)

I do have to put it out there that I don't actually have my CCW in hand right now, I've been approved but was told to qualify with this gun before I turn in the paperwork. It seems it's a huge PITA to issue a CCW then reissue it.

I'm sorry for you man, I really am. I admire your fortitude to jump thru all these hoops and rings of fire. Myself I'd probably just conceal well and forgo the CCW thing. I never thought I'd say this since we've had millions of California migrants move our direction but theres room here in Wa for you and all your wifes family. I'd recommend staying away from the higher density cities, Seattle, Olympia, Spokane, I could go on and on and please leave all your previous California ideas and methodologies behind. Many move up here and try to ruin our state just like they did yours. We'll close the border right after you and yours get in.
I think most of our state officials are from California or have drank California kool aid but so far we haven't allowed them to destroy our personal lives or mess with gun regs too much.

Bawanna
12-09-2010, 02:18 PM
"I totally support law inforcement people, jus the dumb fokers that I don't.. "



Kind of like our earlier conversation whereby one has to earn respect regardless of who they are. Cops for the most part deserve respect but some abuse it, fortunately none of ours that I'm aware of but they should get the respect, then the ones that dont deserve it should lose it. Not that that would mean much to them, the badge and the gun are like diplomatic immunity in some areas. But cops also have a tendency to police their own as they don't want a bad rep as a group for one guy being dumb.

By the way I'll be over again this weekend to polish the scooters again. I think 13 more trips and I get that respect you mentioned at least on a trial basis.

dirksterg30
12-09-2010, 02:34 PM
joe_sun,

how did the qualification go? While I agree that what you have to go through is a real PITA, at least you can CCW when it's all said and done. A lot of folks in Kalifornia don't have that option. If I were stuck there, I would grit my teeth and pay the $ just to have the means to protect my family. I have to admit that I am spoiled here in PA. We are shall-issue, the permit is good for 5 years, costs $25, and there is no training required. Anyway, hope it went well for you!

Bawanna
12-09-2010, 02:41 PM
That good 25 bucks. Ours are 60bucks for 5 years and like 45 I think for renewals, no classes, no qualifying.
I'd gladly pay 200, just give me the card and let me get on with my life.

I don't think he's back from the qual yet but like you I'm anxiously awaiting to hear the outcome. Hope he didn't lose it and pummel the so called range officer with his bare hands in frustration. That would probably happen to me.

garyb
12-09-2010, 04:29 PM
One of the pictures look wrong, if you go entirely by the bottom of the spring at the mag base. I'll bet this illustration is a mistake and you should simply check with Kahr. My mags springs are orientated so that the top portion points up on the bullet side of the ammo. In other words, the top of the spring is oriented parallel to the orientation of the bullet. I don't know that the bottom of the spring's orientation matters anway, because it lays flat at the base. However, at the top, it matters. Lay the spring to match the angle of the bullet at the top. Seems simple to me.

Like Jocko, I always use the slide stop to rack too. I had read this in the Kahr manual and decided that was the way to go...the way Kahr suggests. I did not challenge it or apply any tests to make it not work. I guess it is something for everyone to try for a situation that slingshoting is needed. If it works for Bawanna45 it should work. Perhaps technique is everything. But IF I found it does not work slingshoting or if I were at the range and it failed because the RO made me do it his way; I'd demonstrate to him that it works the way Kahr operation manual suggests and sometimes it does not work to manually slingshot it. Why the heck would a RO make slingshoting necessary anyway. It should not be a big deal. We work with what works. I will give it a try sometime. I'll rack it like I mean it! Interesting debate.

jocko
12-09-2010, 04:36 PM
That good 25 bucks. Ours are 60bucks for 5 years and like 45 I think for renewals, no classes, no qualifying.
I'd gladly pay 200, just give me the card and let me get on with my life.

I don't think he's back from the qual yet but like you I'm anxiously awaiting to hear the outcome. Hope he didn't lose it and pummel the so called range officer with his bare hands in frustration. That would probably happen to me.

yet live in Indiana and go through none of that B. S. and pay $100 be finger printeed and obtain a lifetime ccw. No more nothing after that crap..:59:

Bawanna
12-09-2010, 04:53 PM
"I guess it is something for everyone to try for a situation that slingshoting is needed. If it works for Bawanna45 it should work."

Let the record show that I too use the slide lock lever to chamber a round as the owners manual suggest. I merely stated that I can slingshot mine easily if theres a reason to and I do from time to time. The slide lock release method will near always work so I stick with that near always.
I slingshot most all my other guns. The Glock instructor stated the phrase it is a lock back not a release, pull the slide back and let her fly.
The same is true when chambering around in a 1911. Not so when lowering the slide on an empty 1911. Then the slide should be eased down gently to avoid trigger bounce and possible sear damage but thats a subject for a whole nuther novel.

joe_sun
12-09-2010, 05:23 PM
BACK! Had to pickup my Son from his Grandmother's house.

Okay I'm a little disappointed in myself, I let 3 slip into the 7 ring so I dropped 15 points to a 235 our of 250 (200 is passing) so I passed as I knew I would. First two shots at 15 yards I jerked the trigger :mad: still getting used to the trigger I guess.

Good news! It ran FLAWLESS today. Of course I only shot 49 rounds but both magazines were fine. I used the slide lock every single time. I'll try to get out to the range again in the next week or so but this might just have been some break in woes in conjunction with aluminum ammo that may or may not work well in the 7 round magazine.

It's funny because before I'm at the line I keep thinking, okay I'll hold the gun with my pinky off the magazine to prevent jams.. but when you're on the line and you hear "SHOOTERS READY... FIRE!!" you just draw and fire without even thinking about it.

Oh it was $15.00 today. Not bad.

joe_sun
12-09-2010, 05:29 PM
I'm sorry for you man, I really am. I admire your fortitude to jump thru all these hoops and rings of fire. Myself I'd probably just conceal well and forgo the CCW thing. I never thought I'd say this since we've had millions of California migrants move our direction but theres room here in Wa for you and all your wifes family. I'd recommend staying away from the higher density cities, Seattle, Olympia, Spokane, I could go on and on and please leave all your previous California ideas and methodologies behind. Many move up here and try to ruin our state just like they did yours. We'll close the border right after you and yours get in.
I think most of our state officials are from California or have drank California kool aid but so far we haven't allowed them to destroy our personal lives or mess with gun regs too much.

Thanks Bawanna!

My work as an office in Seattle and I've thought of packing up and moving but man it's EXPENSIVE to live there.

Californians can be NUTS! I disagree with most of 'em even thou I was born and raised here. Growing up in a Christian, conservative home and attending Catholic school probably has just a little to do on my outlook thou.

I have to take issue with something thou. I live in Northern California and we get a TON of straight up WACKADOS from Washington and Oregon.

I was just up in Redding the other day and saw a beat up old car with Washington plates pull into a gas station. Three freaks, two girls, 1 guy, tattoos and piercings on the face, dreadlocks, torn up clothes and one of them was carrying around a CAT with her.

I think your wackados move here to make this place even crazier! :D

Bawanna
12-09-2010, 05:56 PM
Thanks Bawanna!

My work as an office in Seattle and I've thought of packing up and moving but man it's EXPENSIVE to live there.

Californians can be NUTS! I disagree with most of 'em even thou I was born and raised here. Growing up in a Christian, conservative home and attending Catholic school probably has just a little to do on my outlook thou.

I have to take issue with something thou. I live in Northern California and we get a TON of straight up WACKADOS from Washington and Oregon.

I was just up in Redding the other day and saw a beat up old car with Washington plates pull into a gas station. Three freaks, two girls, 1 guy, tattoos and piercings on the face, dreadlocks, torn up clothes and one of them was carrying around a CAT with her.

I think your wackados move here to make this place even crazier! :D

Oh we got a mountain of wacko's and freaks, no doubt about that. That's why I said to stay away from the high density areas. We try to keep them segregated there. We get some strays now and then in the outlying areas but we generally try to keep them contained.
Were I a gambling man I'd say the ones you mention were originally from California and were just returning to their roots but who can really say.
Myself I got my sights set on Wyoming. Only 5 people per square mile state wide. Room to breath, gotta be some areas where me and the missus could have 20 or so square miles all to ourselves. Pretty country, lots of wild life. I'd toss the tv sets, not read a paper, just patrol the parimeter and soak in all the good things. Course it has to be within 5 miles of town, wife would go nuts if she didn't get in a store at least 4 times a week. I don't recall the last time I was in a store, thanks to Al's internet.

joe_sun
12-09-2010, 06:26 PM
Oh we got a mountain of wacko's and freaks, no doubt about that. That's why I said to stay away from the high density areas. We try to keep them segregated there. We get some strays now and then in the outlying areas but we generally try to keep them contained.
Were I a gambling man I'd say the ones you mention were originally from California and were just returning to their roots but who can really say.


Ah I see how you spin it ;)

California is the same way, besides LA and San Fran most of it's conservative. It just sucks that because of those horribly overpopulated cesspools there are 2.5 million more Democrats than Republicans so they overwhelm us when it's time to vote.

dirksterg30: Yup just pay up to protect the fam. Gotta do it.

OldLincoln
12-09-2010, 06:34 PM
Ah, Wyoming! Spose there's a reason there's only 5 people per sq mile? Yeah all the others froze to death. Wide open spaces and nothing between you and the North Pole but a barb wire fence. Drive a BMW in the summer and a snow cat in the winter. There's warm, cool, cold, damn cold, and Wyoming cold!

Do I need to mention I hate the cold! If we could have Purto Rico to ourselves it would be bliss. Avg High 78* Avg Low 72* Sigh....

Bawanna
12-09-2010, 06:41 PM
Ah, Wyoming! Spose there's a reason there's only 5 people per sq mile? Yeah all the others froze to death. Wide open spaces and nothing between you and the North Pole but a barb wire fence. Drive a BMW in the summer and a snow cat in the winter. There's warm, cool, cold, damn cold, and Wyoming cold!

Do I need to mention I hate the cold! If we could have Purto Rico to ourselves it would be bliss. Avg High 78* Avg Low 72* Sigh....

Well that bubble just burst. Maybe I could buy Alcatraz, make it not NOT part of California and live there. Probably too many steps?

joe_sun
12-09-2010, 06:48 PM
Two things about California I absolutely love.

#1 the food, I've been around and IMO nothing compares to what we have here.

#2 the weather. It's almost 5pm right now and it's 63 degrees outside.

AFDoc
12-09-2010, 09:46 PM
Glad things worked out Joe. Where in CA are you? I grew up in Live Oak. U anywhere close to my old stomping grounds?

Replay13
12-10-2010, 03:09 AM
Congrats on your qualify Joe! Just curious, did you turn the spring around on your 7 shot mag? And I would be curious if it will feed the Blazer ammo now if you try some again.
Congrats again,
James (Replay13)
BTW: I'm one of those Oregonians.... here we are plagued with a onslot of Californians tring to escape from there! LOL

joe_sun
12-10-2010, 08:13 AM
AFDoc: Not really, I'm in Sacramento County.

Replay13: The spring was in the "right" way to begin with, an earlier post from someone said to check the Kahr website for proper mag spring orientation, it just didn't seem right to me thou and that's why I asked.

I'll hit up the range as soon as I can but it's going to be a crazy next few weeks.

kramm
12-10-2010, 08:40 AM
Congrats. on passing your test. Good to hear that your pistol is doing what it should.
The more you shoot it the better it will get. Keep it clean.http://kahrtalk.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

dirksterg30
12-10-2010, 08:23 PM
joe,

Congrats on passing! Glad the PM9 worked out for you.

joe_sun
12-18-2010, 11:28 AM
I just finished cleaning the PM9 from my qualification and am heading back to the range this morning. I'm bringing 100 rds of Remington UMC, 50 rds Speer Gold dot 147 gr JHP and 50 rds of aluminum Blazer FMJ.

I think I'll try shooting 50 rds of the Speer first since it's my standard defensive round I use in all my other 9mm pistols, then I switch to the blazer to see if I get any jams then I'll go into Remington UMC.

I'm bringing along my favorite range gun, a West German Sig P225, if the PM9 is boring reliable I'll switch it the P225 for the last 50 rounds.

Something I noticed, I have been getting this carbon buildup on the barrel hood that I wasn't able to get off with a toothbrush so I used a brass brush. It took it off but where it used to be polished is now matte. I might have to go get a polishing kit for my dremel.

Of course I'll post back here good or bad how the Kahr ran and this time I'll note any malfunction and the magazine used.. knock on wood I don't get any.

ETA: I turned in the final paperwork for my CCW and I should have it, hopefully last week in December but because of the holidays I might not get it until first week in January.

joe_sun
12-18-2010, 01:46 PM
Back from the range. I wish I could say it was flawless but it wasn't. Also I messed up and grabbed a box of ammo that wasn't full so I only had about 38 rds of the Speer Gold Dot 147

Cliff Notes- I had 2 nosedive jams both with the 7 rd magazine and 1 premature slidelock with the 6rd.

Speer Gold Dot 147gr JHP,

2nd round of the 7rd magazine caused a nosedive jam.
4th round of the 6 rd magazine caused a premature slide lock. This might have been user error.

Blazer aluminum brass
3rd round of the 7 rd magazine caused a nosedive jam

Remington FMJ
Flawless in both magazines

So I think I'll buy another 6 rd magazine and try another box of Speer GD 147 to see how it runs.

I'd like to add I put 16 rds through my P225 and man what a joy to shoot. I love that little piece of German engineering.

Replay13
12-18-2010, 07:19 PM
Back from the range. I wish I could say it was flawless but it wasn't. Also I messed up and grabbed a box of ammo that wasn't full so I only had about 38 rds of the Speer Gold Dot 147

Cliff Notes- I had 2 nosedive jams both with the 7 rd magazine and 1 premature slidelock with the 6rd.

Speer Gold Dot 147gr JHP,

2nd round of the 7rd magazine caused a nosedive jam.
4th round of the 6 rd magazine caused a premature slide lock. This might have been user error.

Blazer aluminum brass
3rd round of the 7 rd magazine caused a nosedive jam

Remington FMJ
Flawless in both magazines

So I think I'll buy another 6 rd magazine and try another box of Speer GD 147 to see how it runs.

I'd like to add I put 16 rds through my P225 and man what a joy to shoot. I love that little piece of German engineering.

Helli Joe_Sun,

Problems like that can be really frustrating, especially when you need a pistol to be 100%. But sometimes its not as bad as it seems.

I'm no expert but I'll take a shot at fixing your problems. First the 7 round mag I would take it apart and look it over really good for anything that could hang up the follower, I would say that its not pushing the bullet point up so it can feed the round sometimes. If you can't find anything there I would have it replace or just get a new one.
Ok, on the slide locking back with bullets still in the mag, I would be more inclined to blame that on the bullets then yourself. That gold dot bullet has a pretty wide ogive compared to other hollow points and full metal jacket bullets.
If your just set on using that bullet you might be able to make them work. If you strip your pistol and put the slide stop back in and then put a loaded magazine in with that bullet you will see what can happen if the bullets move forward just a very small amount.

Anyways all your problems will probably be solved with a different bullet and maybe one new magazine. Or possibly just a small mod to shoot that big gold dot and have it clear better. I would talk to someone more in the know before making any mods, or talk to Kahr about it after you see what I'm saying. I'm sure a few ppl that has had the same problem has got out a file and made a little more clearance... maybe they would like to explain that in more detail (that is how I get myself off the hook! lol)

Good luck and keep us posted,
James (Replay13)

Replay13
12-18-2010, 07:35 PM
Hello again,
I should have said... look as you insert the magazine, when the bullet is going past the slide stop lever. Before the magazine is all the way in.
James (Replay13)

joe_sun
12-18-2010, 07:40 PM
Hello again,
I should have said... look as you insert the magazine, when the bullet is going past the slide stop lever. Before the magazine is all the way in.
James (Replay13)

I knew exactly what you were saying, I just checked it out and you're right... it could 100% be my ammo.

What carry ammo would you recommend? All my research pointed to the 147gr because it worked so well out of a short barrel.

OldLincoln
12-18-2010, 11:10 PM
CA leaves much of the qualification stuff up to the local sheriff. The county I live in doesn't advertise, but likes those so inclined to have CCW permits. I took my training from a guy who follows what the CA regs require, minimum of 4 hr training, shoot 10 rounds into a letter sized paper, and pass a quiz that amounts to asking "In what county is the Sacramento County building located"? They didn't even bother to score it when I turned it in.

I paid $65 for the 4 hr training including shooting and range fees. About $135 for fingerprinting, background check and permit. There's several lines to add guns to my permit so I think I can have more than 3. I'm required to qualify with each type gun carried. I qual'd an automatic so I can add other autos for no charge of testing. The permit is good for 2 years then I get to do it all over again.

The county next to me requires 8hr training and all kinds of shooting requirements much like Joe's.

joe_sun
12-19-2010, 01:36 AM
Did some quick research tonight and it seems this is pretty much a Gold Dot issue correct?

I've read posts of people using Winchester RA9124TP, how about Winchester 147gr RA9T?

I'm a sucker for the 147gr non +p

ETA: Just ordered some RA9124TP and RA9T, I'll report back after Christmas.

joe_sun
12-29-2010, 09:42 PM
Hate to be a drama queen but as of right now I have zero faith in my PM9 to function.

Just got back from the range (a very expensive range session I might add at $25.00 a box of Ranger ammo) and this is the result. I will add that this time I left the 7 round mag at home and bought a new 6 round magazine.

50rds FMJ perfect
50rds Ranger 124gr +p perfect
50rds Ranger 147gr 4 premature slide locks and two nosedive jams 12% failure rate with this ammo
I open my last box of Ranger 124gr+p first magazine, second round.. premature slidelock.

At this point I put the Kahr away, pull out my Sig P225, which I've been carrying, shoot off 50 perfect rounds.

What do you guys think? I mean I expect it to be able to shoot HP ammo and it just gives me issue after issue aside from the first 50 perfect rounds.

For those not counting this is about 500 rounds down the pipe and I'm still having issues.

100percent
12-29-2010, 09:51 PM
Shoot the ammo that your pistol can cycle. No reason for trying to shoot something that doesn't work. If you find that other, more exotic ammo works later then switch.

joe_sun
12-29-2010, 09:58 PM
The only thing it will cycle is brass cased 115gr FMJ. That's not what I'm going to CCW with.

gb6491
12-30-2010, 03:52 AM
joe_sun
I had some issues with my CW45 locking back with rounds in the magazine.
Here's a link to what I found and did to correct it, maybe the info will be of some use to you: http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=15672&postcount=5
Regards,
Greg

jocko
12-30-2010, 06:53 AM
Hate to be a drama queen but as of right now I have zero faith in my PM9 to function.

Just got back from the range (a very expensive range session I might add at $25.00 a box of Ranger ammo) and this is the result. I will add that this time I left the 7 round mag at home and bought a new 6 round magazine.

50rds FMJ perfect
50rds Ranger 124gr +p perfect
50rds Ranger 147gr 4 premature slide locks and two nosedive jams 12% failure rate with this ammo
I open my last box of Ranger 124gr+p first magazine, second round.. premature slidelock.

At this point I put the Kahr away, pull out my Sig P225, which I've been carrying, shoot off 50 perfect rounds.

What do you guys think? I mean I expect it to be able to shoot HP ammo and it just gives me issue after issue aside from the first 50 perfect rounds.

For those not counting this is about 500 rounds down the pipe and I'm still having issues.


what I think is happening: Take your slide off, reinsert the slide stop lever now with the slide off insert the loaded magazine with the 147 grain ammo and 124 hp in it and see if that top round is not hitting that slide stop lever on the inside and causing the lever to move upward causing pre mature slide lock. This will also cause jams as the bullet is being deflecteed into the chamber. If this is happening call kahr and tell them what is happening and they will send you a new slide stop lever. Kahrs are not ammo sensitive and it should should the ammo you are having issues with with zero problems.

Also while the slide is off, and the slide lock is in place, test this out. You should immediately feel resistance on the slide lock lever if you try to push it upward. If there is any free play in that lever before you feel resistance, then that little springhy on the side needs tweeked a tad. With a pair of long nose pliers, just bend that spring tip downward just a tad and then retest. There should be no free play in that lever. but my bet is that is the ammo hitting the inside of the lever as you had no issues with the fmj ammo

scumhunter
12-30-2010, 09:34 AM
Just like I said!!! Good luck qualifying brother. I went through the same thing, the Range Officers need to F@#@ing relax.

I only got through the fist 5 pages of this thread so I apologize if this has already been addressed. Most of you probably already know this but Range Officers yell to add stress. Yelling, time restrictions and peer competition are all safe ways of adding stress to a training environment.
In a real-life deadly force encounter, stress and adrenaline levels go through the roof. Fine motor skills are gone and even gross motor skills are retarded. You need to train under stress so when the “real deal” happens you can still function and have the tools to survive.
When you are standing on the firing line and your gun runs empty a good training officer will step up behind you and start adding stress “GET THAT GUN LOADED!, WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? YOUR CHILD JUST GOT SHOT”. Don’t think the range officer is just being a jerk, he is adding stress. A good training officer will do the same thing if you have a malfunction “TAP, RACK, READY! GET THAT GUN BACK IN THE FIGHT. STOP LOOKING AT IT AND FIX IT!
Of course most people don’t like being yelled at or belittled but in a training environment this is a good thing. If a range officer totally makes you angry or embarrassed and you are able stay focused , clear malfunctions, and making smooth mag changes, you just had a day of training that could save your life.
With all that said, some range officers are naturally a-holes. Just like every other walk of life, you always have to deal with a stinker or two.

joe_sun
12-30-2010, 09:36 AM
Thanks for the replies.

I sent an email to Kahr last night and I woke up this morning to an RMA, they want the whole gun back.

Jocko, if the rounds in the magazine are even slightly skewed to the left then the hit the slide stop for any of my HP ammo, 147 Gold Dot, 147 Ranger, 124 +p Ranger.

I just tried this with 115gr FMJ and no matter how far forward or to the left I push the rounds they don't touch the slide stop.

This could also explain the nosedive jams.. it the bullet is hanging on the stop while the follower is pushing it up and the slide is moving forward, it could cause it to jam.

I wrote back to Jay with this new information.

jocko
12-30-2010, 10:39 AM
u can always send it back if they will work with you . A new slide stop would save alot of bucks on your part. U did not say if the RMA# was a prepaid thing bac, and if not, they I would call Jay and run what you found by him to get an opinion IMO you shold not hav eto pay to send back a new gun.

I would think it would be many times cheaper for kahr to send you a slide lock lever to test out and then if that doesn't solve the issue send it back on their dime and let them know they sent you a new slide stop lever and they can start from there. Also if u do send it back send the magazines with it.

joe_sun
12-30-2010, 10:41 AM
Jay just wrote back, he offered either a free shipping label to RMA the gun or to try a new slide stop lever first.

I told him we'll try the slide stop first to save time and money.

I will have to say that Kahr's customer service has been A+ and I feel better about the whole situation than I did yesterday holding a $600.00 jammed handgun.

AFDoc
12-30-2010, 04:50 PM
Joe,
I'm glad to hear they are working with you so well. I too had a great customer service experience with Kahr when I got my PM9 a few months ago. My issue wasn't as big a deal as yours but they were tops and fixed my issue promptly. I had read so many posts about poor CS from Kahr but that wasn't the case for me. Just trying to balance the record guys. Happy New Year all!

jocko
12-30-2010, 04:58 PM
super. now you have the best of both worlds to test out. I hope the slide stop lever solves your issues, but if it has to go back remember to ship the magazines also. magazines can be an issue in many semi's.

I once had a new Para carry 9 tha tI truly loved but I had to go through 3 slide stop levers before it functioned as it should have

gkstemple
01-01-2011, 04:24 PM
Back to the slingshot vs. slidelock release to reload:

I can see the Range Officer's point:

1. One set of gross motor skills deals with two situations. TAP-RACK-BLAM for FTF is very similar to a slide-lock reload -- you've just inserted a new magazine, so go right ahead and RACK. It's going to be a short-rack & you're likely going to slip right off the end of the slide with no possibility of riding it forward.

2. The "Slingshot" will get just about any self-defense pistol loaded and ready, no fumbling to release a slidelock on what may be your least-used (and most unfamiliar) carry pistol.

That said, if you're firing (most) Kahrs and you slam that magazine home vigorously the slide will release and chamber a round from the magazine. No muss, no fuss, you just release the shot when the sights are back on target.

joe_sun
01-03-2011, 11:34 PM
Man what's with people and this imaginary Range Officer? There should be a movie about him.

New Update!

Received the replacement slide stop in the mail today. Thanks Kahr!

Anyway I hate to say the problem is fixed without actually shooting the gun but I think it might just be.

I pulled out my digital calipers to do some measuring of the old v. new slide stop... but the batteries in it area dead.. sooooo

Anyway I checked it out and the new stop is smoother. The old one has sharp edges on it and the bottom that touched the bullets was so sharp it would scratch the bullets as they got hung up on it. That little sharp part was also sticking out and was catching the bullets as they tried to pass.

So I installed the new slide stop and was unable to get any bullets to hang up or press up on the slide stop no matter how far forward or to the left they were. If they came in contact with the stop they just smoothly slid over to the right instead of hanging or pressing up.

Having gone though about 200 rounds of expensive home defense ammo.. I'm a little short of it right now and need to order more before I can test it.

joe_sun
01-12-2011, 11:06 PM
I'm beat so this is a really quick update. Hi to the fellow Kahr forum member I met at the range today.

I shot 100 rounds of Speer GD 147gr HP today and had 1 nosedive jam, it was right around round 70.

Shot off another email to Kahr to see what they say.

Replay13
01-13-2011, 12:39 AM
Hello again joe_sun,
It sounds like your determined to make the big hollow points work, so good luck and keep us posted.
I'm just fine with the lighter faster bullets so I never tried any 147 grs. How about you Jocko, or anyone else? I know they have caused a lot of grief in a lot of small pistols.
Ruger solved that problem when designing the little LCP... they just don't have a last round slide lock! lol.
Anyways, just my opinion but if your really set on shooting the big 147 gr bullets, you might be happier with a full size pistol. I'm sure that you already checked the slide lock spring? With the extra slick lock to play with, it might be a good time to dig out the dremal for as much clearance as you can get and still have the magazine lock it back. Or give Kahr a shot at making it work.
Good luck on what you decide and keep us posted,
James (Replay13)

jocko
01-13-2011, 05:33 AM
neverr shot any hp 147 grain. I have shot alot of the 147 fmj wwb ammo when it was on sale just for range fodder. never had a hiccup. Not sure I would have dropped karh an email with one round nose diving out of 100. very easily could have been shooter error also. I am sure kahr is not going to say send the gun back.the one round could have been out of spec enough to cause that. Not much leeway for much error with such a big round in that smal of an area. If I was going to carry that particular roudn,I would for sure hand rack each roundin the magazine to make sure they all feed properly. Clearance could be more of an issue with the slide lock also and that in itself will cause nose dives. very easy to check to see if that round is hitting the inside of the slide lock..

For me personally and just my opinion, not sure the 147 grain is the right rund for these short barreled guns.

joe_sun
01-13-2011, 08:35 AM
Morning guys, I'm almost late for work so some quick comments.

I really wanted the 147gr Gold Dots to work because it's what I use in my other 3 9mm handguns and I didn't want to have a separate ammo for just the Kahr.

Jim at Kahr and I have a pretty open dialog and we both agree that this could be shooter error.. aka limpwristing. I've never had a jam in the first 50 rounds so shooter fatigue could be a part of it.

As of right now I don't know what the fate of my PM9 is going to be. I carry my Sig Sauer P225 with me most of the time in a Milt Sparks VMII and it's so comfortable I don't even think I need the Kahr right now. In summer that may change. I've got a VMII on order for my Glock 23 and a VMII clone on order for the PM9.

Knowing the gun has never jammed in the first 50 rounds, regardless of ammo type is somewhat reassuring as I don't often carry more than 13 rounds when I have carried the Kahr.

Something else really quick. The only time I've been "made" while carrying has been with the Kahr in a Desantis pocket holster. I was at the Dr's office and he took a triple take at my right front pocket. Guess it doesn't hide the gun outline well enough.

deadhead1971
01-13-2011, 09:49 AM
Sorry I am about a month late to the party. I have about 2,600 rds through the Pm9. Plan to go shoot again on Monday. I still have the occasional nose dives, and I am sure it is with the 7 rd mag. I clean everything (including mags and springs) after every shoot session, and I change out the recoil spring like oil in a car. And I still have 'em one in a blue moon--maybe 1 every 200 rounds. I usually can bump the back of the slide to go into battery. I use 115 grain federal fmj for target plinking.

RONDO
01-14-2011, 09:59 PM
Hey joe_sun! Sorry to hear about your difficulties.:( Try using only real "pointy" ammo for target practice, like the Federal fmj thats been 100% for ya ... only $10.47 @ Walmart.
For carry, use Hornady Critical Defense ... again, a very "pointy" tapered HP bullet.:D These lil pistols don't like the HPs with the big hole in the end.:( You could standardize all your 9mm with this round, ... it was designed for small pistols with short barrels ...
This routine makes for very reliable, consistant results. Hope this helps:)