A few Q's for the experts.

[Mr.VR6]

I am a relatively new Kahr owner, I have owned my cw9 since september of last year, and have had absolutely no issue with it feeding, ejecting, or any of the common issues i read about before purchasing this weapon.
In fact the day i got it i ran 300 rounds through it, and noticed that it seemed to shoot a little low. I didn't think anything of it, at first I attributed it to the trigger pull and myself just not shooting it correctly. I now have over 700 rounds through this pistol, and I am realizing that it is not me. I've put dummy rounds in the magazine with my live rounds to see if it was me turning the gun on my trigger pull, but it doesn't seem to be me. I have had others shoot it and they say the same thing. it shoots waaaaayyy low. To give you an idea, standing literally 5 or so feet from a fresh target, and aiming at the horizontal line, it won't not only hit any where near point of aim, but misses the entire 18 inch target completely. Is this even possible? I just can't believe that I could be that bad of a shot. I can hit the same target with my buddy's sr9c at 15 yds almost exactly where I want. I'm looking for some ideas, I love this little gun, and do not want to get rid of it. Thanks so much.:confused:

[redjak]

Well, I'm not an expert. But I do know that small light weight pistols with long trigger pulls like the CW9 can be pulled low by the shooter. I suggest shooting from a rest at a close target. A sandbag on a table would be great, but anything close to this should help. If you are pulling the shots low, you won't be doing that with a sandbag. Also, I think the CW9 is set up for a center hold sight picture. Sight Picture - Bob Tuley (http://www.bobtuley.com/sight_picture.htm) Been awhile since I shot a CW9, but I remember hitting the paper target near center using a center hold sight picture. Anyway, the real experts will be along shortly ...

[94zcar]

I am no expert but that is very odd that it would shoot that low at 5 feet.
One thing that is different between a CW9 and a SR9 is the trigger. With a long double action trigger like the CW9 it eas to pull your shot. Usualy low and left for right handers. Try staging the trigger and some dry firing may help. If you have already tried all that then I would call Kahr and see what the say.

[Mr.VR6]

thanks for all the replies guys, i really do want to blame myself and not the gun. i will try shooting from a rest, and see what happens. I have dry fired the snot out of this thing, mostly because i can't stop fondling it. I did pick up a hogue grip for it to fatten the palm area of the gun up so that maybe if I am pulling shots, it will help keep me from doing it. anyone else have any suggestions? all input is appreciated!

[jfrey]

Shooting low at such short range, I would look at 2 things. First is the position of your finger in the trigger. Move your finger as high and close to the frame as possible. Hanging your finger down on the tip of the trigger will exagerate the low shooting you see. The second thing I would check is how high the barrel hood is coming up on the breech face when the action closes. If the hood is equal height as the top of the slide, it is closing too far and the link on the barrel is too long. I can't measure the hood on my gun but it doesn't come clear to the top of the slide when closed. The next thing to try is to change brands of ammo. Ball ammo in my gun actually shot a little high. When I changed to Hornady CD or Cor-Bon 125 gr. PD ammo, I shot right to point of aim. This was at 10 and 15 yards.

If all else fails, call Dawson Precision and order a new set of front and rear sights for your pistol. Your front sight may be loose or too low for the ammo you are shooting.

Jocko and Bawanna will also be able to supply more info shortly. Just be patient and keep shooting.

[Mr.VR6]

I do shoot a lot of WWB because my local walmart always has hundred round boxes in abundance for 20.00. but it did the same thing with remmington hollows. i know that is all crap ammo, so i will definitely try some hornady and cor-bon.

any other takers? i want to compile a list of stuff to try when i get out again, it is getting real cold up here in the northeast so range trips are gonna start becoming few and far between!

[Replay13]

Hello Mr.VR6,

I'm not an expert but it does seem strange that it would be shooting over 18 inches low at 5 ft? I take it that you can see the hits in the dirt below the target and it is shooting low? If your not sure I would find a dirt bank and maybe just put a can on it and watch where all the shots hit in the dirt, maybe shoot at 10 yrds. I'm not sure but the barrel would have to look really funny in the frame to shoot 2 ft low at 5 feet!

Anyways shooting off the sandbag for a test was good advice. When you find out for sure how low it is shooting at say 10 yrd (30 feet) let us know, ok. So try the sand bag at 10 yrs on a dirt bank or a bigger paper till you can see how it is grouping and how low it really is, ok. If your still way off and grouping good, its time to have it looked at.

On the plus side, its good to hear the gun is running good.
Like you said if you was anticipating the shot and pulling low it would show on the dummy rounds and if it was the sight picture you wouldn't be able to see the front sight shooting that low!

Not to be picking on you, but I do find it strange that after 700 rounds that you don't know how it is grouping or how low it is shooting for sure? Anyways hang in there and we will get this sorted out, and have a local gunsmith take a look at it too if you can.

Now if it was my wife (peeking over shoulder) she would hit about half way to the target with a double action trigger. But it would show up with the dummy rounds for sure .... acutally a couple times she pulled way down and didn't even get the shot off! Bless her.... lol. Anyways my PM9 is safe from her!

Good luck,
James (Replay13)

[Mr.VR6]

haha! no worries, the reason I am just discovering my issues with this pistol after 700 rounds is this: the out door range i shoot at is called a "range" but it is a ''bring your own target and stands - shoot at your own risk'' type of place. It really equates to nothing more than a clearing in the woods that local LEOs shoot at with a sign that has a few emergency #s on. my friends and I usually end up out there early on sunday mornings and for the first few visits no one remebered to bring the proper targets. More often than not, we ended up shooting objects like bottles and such. it was hard to tell what you hit or how you hit it after it was shattered by a bullet. but i guess thats how sunday morning plinking sessions go sometimes.

on another note i really want to say thank you to everyone that has replied with ideas for me to try, and lurking on these forums over the past few months has helped me with answering a lot of the early q's i had when i first got this pistol.

[Catshooter]

If that piece was mine, I would strongly suspect a front sight that is not correct for it. I would call the factory and find out what the proper sight height should be and then measure what I have. Actually I would do it for both front & rear.


Cat

[MikeyKahr]

To give you an idea, standing literally 5 or so feet from a fresh target, and aiming at the horizontal line, it won't not only hit any where near point of aim, but misses the entire 18 inch target completely. Is this even possible?

Again, I am by no means an expert, but in addition to shooting from rest (sandbag or other), I would suggest shooting from as close a distance as is safely possible at your range and gradually step back so as to keep your shots on the target. I thought it was totally strange at first, but my instructor had me shoot literally 18 inches away from the target for my first handgun shots ever. At that distance, the shots should be making the same hole (or very close anyway). He did this while observing me to see my trigger control and see if I pulled at all. There's definitely something going on if you can't keep them on target from 5 feet - if you can't get them on paper from 18 inches, there's really something going on. I'd suggest starting super close and see where you're at on target, then gradually increasing the distance and see where you're at then.

Looking at your most recent post, I suggest sticking to targets instead of objects (bottles, etc.). Targets don't lie and show you where your projectiles are hitting. Bottles, balloons, etc. while fun don't give you very accurate feedback on how well you're doing.

[Mr.VR6]

thanks Mikey, yeah standard targets are definitely best and i will be shooting those to get this all worked out from now on. the bottles and junk were fun to shoot just cause we didn't have anything else at the time. we did have have some really dense ballistic gel type stuff that was fun though. = )

[jocko]

a few dummy rounds in with a loaded magazine and you will see what is going on first hand. Let someone load your magazines for you and let them at their will insert one or two snap caps in the magazine. This will really shows the error of your ways if that is the case. At 5 feet i seriously doubt if it is the gun .

Kahrs are not the easiest to shoot wher eyou want it, as most shooters will attest to, at 5 feet though you should be on target. Your sight picture plays a big part of it also. and I won't go into that but you mght want to see ore of that front sight, that willb ring shots upward.

Winchester ammo from wal-mnart is not crap ammo either. It is good stuff, the same stuff your gonna p[ay doube for at gander mt or Cabelas..

[oldtex]

I am a relatively new Kahr owner, I have owned my cw9 since september of last year, and have had absolutely no issue with it feeding, ejecting, or any of the common issues i read about before purchasing this weapon.
In fact the day i got it i ran 300 rounds through it, and noticed that it seemed to shoot a little low. I didn't think anything of it, at first I attributed it to the trigger pull and myself just not shooting it correctly. I now have over 700 rounds through this pistol, and I am realizing that it is not me. I've put dummy rounds in the magazine with my live rounds to see if it was me turning the gun on my trigger pull, but it doesn't seem to be me. I have had others shoot it and they say the same thing. it shoots waaaaayyy low. To give you an idea, standing literally 5 or so feet from a fresh target, and aiming at the horizontal line, it won't not only hit any where near point of aim, but misses the entire 18 inch target completely. Is this even possible? I just can't believe that I could be that bad of a shot. I can hit the same target with my buddy's sr9c at 15 yds almost exactly where I want. I'm looking for some ideas, I love this little gun, and do not want to get rid of it. Thanks so much.:confused:

I don't know your level of competence or that of the others who have shot your gun, so please don't be offended by what I say below.

My advice is to first eliminate the possibility that your grip/sight alignment/sight picture/trigger manipulation technique is the cause. You can do this by having a competent professional shooting instructor shoot the gun (preferably from a rest) to see where it impacts for him. If this person experiences the same thing that you've been experiencing, then ship it back to Kahr.

This cannot be a sight height error. The error is simply too big for sight height to be the cause. Based on my extrapolation of data from the Ameriglo sight website, an error of 18" at 5 feet would indicate a front sight that is about nine tenths of an inch too tall, or a rear sight that is too low by the same height, or some combination of the two adding up to nine tenths or so.

[jocko]

At five feet you should almost be able to touch the target with your arm(s) extended. There's something else going on...

at 5 feet I can't see it being gun related, If he would put some snap caps in the magazine and not where they are, it willshow him big time what is going on...

[ripley16]

...but misses the entire 18 inch target completely. Is this even possible? I just can't believe that I could be that bad of a shot.

I agree, I don't see how a 18" miss is possible unless there is a serious flaw or reason, such as a misshapened or misdrilled barrel. At 5' your rounds should be within a inch of each other and near your aim point. Not even bad sights would account for this problem.

BTW; how are you aiming using the dot on post Kahr sights? What is your sight picture?

Closest I could fing to a Kahr sight picture...
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/rtparso/sightpicture2.jpg

[jocko]

hwo about letting a few good shooters tha tyou trust tryi your kahr at 5 feet and see what results they get. Before panicking and calling kahr, u must eliminate all the possables that might be causing it. I. e. shooter form? sight picture? check over barrel expecial the muzzel end for any serious dings??other shooters getting the same results?

IMO it is ot ammo related so shoot what you have. we are here to help u, so if you feel like we are criticizing, we are defnitely not doing that, but we have to be fair and point fingers not only at the gun but at the shooter to.. ONE OF THOSE TWO IS THE CULPRIT.

[OldLincoln]

You don't know how I hesitated to ask this question.... When you look thru the sights, do you see both the verticle bar (back) with the dot (front) ABOVE it, like the dot above the letter "i"? I know, I know it's like asking if the computer is plugged in but it's the only thing I can think of that would put him so far off target at that distance. I also will absolutely refuse to tell you why it occurred to me!!

[Mr.VR6]

thanks everyone for all the replies. I am not trying to blame the gun in anyway, I am more concerned with learning to shoot this thing properly. i was more or less looking for the advice of everyone who has owned one of these longer than myself, to guide me down the right path. Also, please do not think I am going to be offended by any comments or criticism from anyone, you guys know waaaaayyy more about this stuff than i do, so absolutely all input is welcomed, and truly appreciated. i will be trying all of everyone's suggestions this week when i make it back out to the range, and I will be reporting back with my progress. again i thank all of you for your input, now i have an idea of what i need to do.

[ripley16]

I suggest you;
Shoot from a rest, the gun and hands supported and steadied by a support.
Let someone else shoot from a rest.
Use some good ammo.
Let us know how the next range visit goes.

[jocko]

thanks everyone for all the replies. I am not trying to blame the gun in anyway, I am more concerned with learning to shoot this thing properly. i was more or less looking for the advice of everyone who has owned one of these longer than myself, to guide me down the right path. Also, please do not think I am going to be offended by any comments or criticism from anyone, you guys know waaaaayyy more about this stuff than i do, so absolutely all input is welcomed, and truly appreciated. i will be trying all of everyone's suggestions this week when i make it back out to the range, and I will be reporting back with my progress. again i thank all of you for your input, now i have an idea of what i need to do.

listen up, ur doing OK. it takes time to get the hang of kahrs loooooong trigger system. I shoot my PM9 compared to my G19 just horrible, and I mean just horrible. That being said, I can keep them at 7 yards in the FBI "Q" silhouette target all day long. Mind you my groups are not what I would want but these guns are what they are, they ar e a close up defense gun, that will save your life.

You might try some point of aim shootig, that being seeing that front sight clearly and the target and back sight is kida a blur. You cannot see all 3 clearly. Your eyes won't work that way, Get used to POA shooting and I think your groupls will get better, but for me, if your expecting 1 or 2" groups,you mighte the wrong gun. The gun can do it, just that most can't, Now from 5 feet you should be very accurate and I think the lows ur getting are shooter error. Try at 5 feet with just POA. Dry firing is good practice but it sure isn't like live firing, you could very well be anticipating that "bang" thing and not even knowing it. Snap caps in the magazine will show that up big time.

No one here is out to hammer you, I credit you for coming forward for help. most would not and would complain about the guns accuracy more than shooter error.. Keep at it, experiment with different sight picture and when your shots come upward where you want them remember what that sight picture was.

You know u can master a bad habit, just takes longer. If your jerking the trigger (anticipating) then if u see more of that front sight it will still bring your shots upward. not the best thing to do inmastering a bad habit, but many do it.
some shooters shoot with 6 O'clock hold some cover the target, try each to see what your groups look like..

[Mr.VR6]

thanks jocko, i am heading to the range tomorrow i think and will follow your suggestions. my buddy will be with me so i will have him shoot it as well. he is a very experienced shooter so i will also see what he thinks.

[Replay13]

Hello again Mr.VR6,
I'll pass on one thing that I work on if my shooting starts getting a little sloppy. Hold on target and take up most of the slack in the trigger then slowly squeeze the trigger just a little bit at a time, move the trigger just a little bit as slow as you can and hold, then move just a little more... the whole idea is to have the pistol fire without you knowing when it will fire, its ok if it takes 15 seconds or more to get off a shot. The point of this test is that if you don't know when it will fire, you can't anticipate the shot. This will build nerves of steel... and is rewarding and confidence building when you start making lots of good hits! I have found the PM9 a very accurate pistol for its size.
Most of all, have fun! Good luck with your shooting and keep us posted, ok.
James (Replay13)